Dapling
Duke Fishron
I'd rather have to get one rare item than two of the same one.
Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread
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Razor_Typhoon
Living Tree
I know everyone will see this but the black spot is now one of those useless items (Like Pearlwood Armor)
considering the complains like bad torch luck...
there is a 99% chance the devs will fix this.
considering the complains like bad torch luck...
there is a 99% chance the devs will fix this.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
I wouldn't call infinite flight useless. Especially when every other infinite flight item is post-plantera.
Razor_Typhoon
Living Tree
it was claimed to not be good for boss fighting..
yet its nerfed to the point its not good for its original purpose
yet its nerfed to the point its not good for its original purpose
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
well the devs gaave up on the origonal purpose, its very difficult to make a mount that's 'good for travel bad for fighting' so they just made it an early hardmode infinite flight mount
Dapling
Duke Fishron
I still think it should have just inflicted an effect similar to Cursed on the player. I suppose the reason they didn't do it was because of Pure Summoner.
MrD108
Official Terrarian
It gives it as something extra, which will not dominate the armor (such as an additional minion) but will only slightly improve the actions of the summoner, on a par with the other three classes.
whoneedsnamestbh
Retinazer
I think it’s for the better. It means that the True swords are separate in progression from the Terra Blade, which allows all three to be stronger. In addition, there’s a much more natural buildup to the Terra Blade that makes finally getting the Terra Blade that much more awesome.
Broken Hero Swords are still in the recipe, but it’s needed for the Terra Blade itself now, which I would argue is actually more fitting.
I'm sorry to say Koopa, the vast majority of what you are discussing here is way outside of the scope of this thread. Even before 1.4, you are calling to major overhauls that are just not going to fit within what I have the time to do, but even now, I'm not likely to making changes to content that weren't directly addressed in 1.4.1 anyway.
However, to respect the time you put into the post, I'd like to respond to most of your points regardless:
1. There's no way we are going to be able to rework the old melee minions to have latch-on. Not only do most of them not make sense for most of them from a logistics perspective, but its a huge AI overhaul that was never within the scope of this thread. What you are asking here might make mechanical sense from a design perspective, but it was never in the cards, I'm sorry to say.
2. Return range (What I like to call "Return to Sender" mode) is something I would have liked to look into, but my coding skills are not very high, and Summon AI is way outside of my abilities. The more competent coders have had their hands full addressing content changes and more severe bug fixes, so this was not something that was able to be brought into the review.
3. Most minions will phase into blocks when they enter Return to Sender mode, just not when on a "normal" follow behavior. I think that's fine, though I'll acknowledge that its annoying when a Melee minion gets stuck on a block.
4. Further review of DD turrets is something I would have liked to do. I did not have time to do so. I hope my attention paid to improving the armors, and a great number of the other weapons from the event, partly make up for that.
5. IMO, in an ideal world, I'd totally rework the Celestial-into-Moon Lord Summoner weapon progression. I wish Moon Lord dropped a real summon. But summons are not easy to add, they take 10x the work of other weapons, and an end-game summon even moreso. I made some adjustments to Rainbow Crystal Staff that, in my opinion, make a big difference. Public perception has not quite agreed with that. It is now at a point where minor adjustments will no longer cut it, it requires a rework, and I'm not capable of reworks to that level. And so there is not much else I could do. I could theoretically just do damage buffs, but I'm not sure how I feel about that right now.
6. I've asked for increased turret cap for Stardust Armor before. It was denied. Sorry to say, it was something I wanted.
7. I do not agree that Tempest Staff needs a homing projectile. It was, once upon a time, a highly viable summon weapon, and only lost value in light of the superior Xeno Staff and its upgrades from the Celestial pillars. I did attempt to narrow the gap between it and Xeno, with a buff for it and a nerf for Xeno. I don't see much more of an increase coming there, as I do not feel that Tempest Staff is an inferior weapon.
8. Fun fact about Xeno Staff . . . in all of my testing of Empress, literally every single tier-appropriate test run I ever did, do you know my fastest kill? Summoner gear with Xeno Staff. Faster than melee, faster than mage, faster than ranger. I used to underestimate Xeno Staff, but once I re-evaluated it, I was in awe at its sheer value. They basically teleport onto the enemy, cannot miss, and hit constantly. Its nerf was not huge, it was rather mild, all things considered, and not one meant to completely remove it from the meta. Ostensibly, Xeno Staff and Tempest Staff come from the same tier (post-Golem side activities).
9. Your assumption about Spooky Armor is sorta half right It is meant to occupy a post-Golem spot, which is to say, the same tier as Beetle (sorta) but but strictly not the same as Shroomite and Spectre, which are pre-Golem. I think its offensive value over Tiki make up for it. Furthermore, I'll also indicate that it took four years of asking for me to be allowed to buff Spooky as much as I did. I don't believe I'll be able to get more buff out of it.
SsIras
Terrarian
It's a shame, I think a buff to Stardust armor could have been enough to "fix" the problem with the last two sentries. But maybe a damage buff?
Thing is, the first time you kill the Moon Lord, you may expect a weapon that is really powerful to help challenging the Celestial Pillars again, the issue is that sentries may increase the DPS of post-moon lord weapons significantly, but they aren't THAT good of a help if they're the only thing Moon Lord dropped, they are underwhelming on their own, unlike every other Moon Lord weapon, which are fun and feel really powerful.
I sincerely would prefer that the sentries would be the strongest Moon Lord drops when combined with other weapon rather than how they are now, they can barely hold the first rounds of OOA by themselves. I don't think a damage buff would be looked down upon for endgame weapons.
To be honest, I don't know what you mean. Several of the OOA armors were buffed, some substantially. Valhalla was nerfed because its massive healing factor was too strong to begin with, and Squire was nerfed slightly because it was way too strong compared to equivalent armors (and its own peer, Monk). On the whole, OOA armors were buffed, not nerfed.
Solar was buffed because it was actually quite bad . . . did you know that a player wearing Nebula Armor in 1.3.5.3 could do more damage with a Melee weapon than someone wearing Solar Armor? Nebula is likely still the strongest end-game set by far, I have no illusions that I broke its reign there, only slightly lessened its durability. I can only hope Solar has lived up to its role somewhat better since then.
Comparing Flinx to Hornet is not ideal, as Flinxes are ground-bound melee minions (aka, the worst type) and Hornets are airborne projectile minions (generally the best type). Ground bound minions need higher potential DPS to make up for the amount of time they spend not doing any damage at all.
1. The Wizard Hat combo was phenomenally powerful, far more than I realized. Its nerf was warranted (it was stronger than many Hardmode Mage armors). It does not need compensation for said nerf, as the Wizard Hat is still part of the STRONGEST Mage loadout available pre-Hardmode. Its still stronger than Meteor and Jungle both. I did not dethrone it, merely knocked it down a peg.
2. Crystal Assassin Armor, while multi-class, was not intended to include Summoner.
I wish there was a cleaner solution to this problem, I really do. Veterans of this thread know that I've discussed the matter extensively, weighing various options within the limits of the scope of what I can change. After a lot of discussion, both here, and internally with our tester team and other devs, this is the one that I feel is the best solution (from a selection of solutions where none were perfect). My hope is that it will result in better value from all three swords overall.
I'm sorry but I disagree with you. To call Black Spot useless is honestly highly exaggerated and inaccurate. Cosmic Car Key is a solidly valuable mount that only goes 41 MPH, and it is a post-Golem/post-Martian drop.
Black Spot goes 36 MPH, which is 87% as much as the UFO mount!!! And it drops three boss tiers lower than Cosmic Car key (Mechs, Plantera, and Golem). That's a HUGE difference in tier. Yes, its acceleration is slow. Yes, that's intended. I know its a Master drop. And still I'm certain of this.
You cannot tell me that a 36 MPH infinite flight mount at pre-mech tier is useless, not when Cosmic Car Key (41 MPH) and Fishron Mount (40 mph when not wet and an Expert item to boot) are not dramatically faster in standard scenarios and also from End-game.
Let me be clear: as a pre-mech drop, even a Master one, Black Spot cannot be as good as UFO Mount. Period. And its already so close to the same speed already that we really can't buff it before it gets there. Any faster, and it outruns Skeletron Prime (WHICH IT SHOULDN'T!). That people have been so dependent upon how broken it was demonstrates all the more to me that this was an important change that needed to happen. If you think that there should be a better-than-UFO-mount pre-mech, then we have very different ideas of game balance.
See above, I do not believe we did. It simply shows that what we did was far overbuff it initially, and the fall was all the harder for it.
Making it a post Golem drop doesn't make sense as the Dutchmen are not post-Golem enemies. There's no reason to return to Pirate Invasion so late past its prime, and putting it there is bad design, IMO. I wish I COULD put it there, it would be a great fit in its original form (or maybe a very slightly nerfed version of that form)
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
The tempest staff is still inferior to the xeno in terms of reliability and damage output, the xeno nerf and tempest nerf has narrowed the gap, however if you could buff the tempest staff's damage output a little more to the point where it surpasses the xeno it could have a niche. Need accuracy? Go xeno. Need damage output? go tempest.
There's an understated and often forgotten perk that Tempest Staff has that is usually not included in discussions, but it factored into my DPS considerations. Namely, that the Tempests themselves deal contact damage in addition to the Sharkrons, and act as an interim barrier/damaging array around the player, should an enemy get close. Xeno Staff offers no such feature. So I do not believe that Tempest needs to be able to deal more raw DPS. I also take into consideration that Xeno has lower damage-per-hit, and so is more subject to defense, though at these damage values, this has a fairly low impact.
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
This would be fair... if the minions were on the same tier... the flinx staff is obtained early on before defeating any other bosses, while the hornet staff requires defeating queen bee which is the 4th boss in progression.
Also the flinx's aerial abilites are surprisingly good, it can jump high and bounce off flying enemies... It's comparable to what spider minions can pull off via latching.
It's more subject to defense... and tag bonuses
SsIras
Terrarian
I actually think Hornet is in a good spot, maybe Flinx is a bit strong, but I don't think it needs a nerf either. Hornet already competes with Imp Staff and can be used to fight WoF very easily.
And Tempest also seems fine in my tests too, it doesn't miss nearly as often as it used too and it can deal quite some damage to bosses, yeah, maybe Xeno is still a bit better for consistency, but I would actually prefer to use Tempest for boss fights now.
By the way, no adjustments to pirate staff (even if it is rarity)?
whoneedsnamestbh
Retinazer
I’m pretty sure this is unintentional, so I’ll bring it up.
This is a good change, as it allows HV bullets to have a valid use.
However, I noticed that it has a side effect of the Sniper Rifle with musket balls, and I imagine the Uzi by extention, also gaining piercing. I imagine these guns aren’t supposed to have piercing by default, unless I’m missing something.
It’s a pretty large buff to those guns too, neither of which needed a buff, and I can see Uzi in particular being way too powerful with just musket balls.
This is a good change, as it allows HV bullets to have a valid use.
However, I noticed that it has a side effect of the Sniper Rifle with musket balls, and I imagine the Uzi by extention, also gaining piercing. I imagine these guns aren’t supposed to have piercing by default, unless I’m missing something.
It’s a pretty large buff to those guns too, neither of which needed a buff, and I can see Uzi in particular being way too powerful with just musket balls.
I think Pirate Staff is one of those that is hamstrung by its AI. Its direct damage is already through the roof (Higher than Xeno!!!)
Prior to 1.4, Yorai spent dayyyys trying to improve the walker AI. Its an often stated complaint that we need to "fix the AI", but its not that simple, its truly not. Walker Minions are very hard to work with properly at times, and they are sorta stuck how they are. And I'm not comfortably increasing their damage further.
The rarity is another situation . . . all of the Pirate drops are "too rare" in my opinion, but I didn't get permission to change them. Personally, I'd have overhauled all of the Pirate Invasion drops to have more reasonable drop rates, but I couldn't swing it.
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
I think the hornet is a bit too weak, if you do the math and compare the benifits of using bee armor vs. a damage armor from another class you find the the hornet just doesn't do enough damage to justify investing armor/accessories into it.
The same is true if not more true with the imp staff, since it has immunity frame issues getting more and more minion slots has diminishing returns.
Sure it's fine but I just feels it needs just a little more damage, like 50->55, or maybye a small xeno nerf like disabling its knockback.
You might be right there, I'll have to look into it.
Sniper Rifle probably wouldn't hurt from such a buff, as a side note. The (1) damage buff won't carry over either, as those were ammo specific.
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