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Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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whoneedsnamestbh

Eye of Cthulhu
Obsidian Armor has already been essentially set in stone for a nerf, it’s likely going to get damage and whip speed nerfs in the margins of 10-20% each based off what people have been suggesting. I personally would say a margin of -15-20% whip speed and -10% damage.

And it’s not only that it can outclass Bee and Spider, but it also outclasses all other armors available at its tier. Run it on Skeletron, you’ll see what I mean.
 
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Ilmarinen

Terrarian
Given that Mana Crystals were made more expensive because people complained Fallen Stars were too easy to get, I really doubt this will happen.
I honestly didn't notice the change. Then again I obsessively collect stars anyway so by the time I get my first mage weapon I already have enough stars to give myself maximum base mana.
Though it still needs a small nerf as it competes with or outclasses spider armour (depending on who you ask).
Or spider armor could be given a synchronized buff to only the two spider staves to encourage it to be used or maybe spider armor gives you an automatic free spider minion just by equipping it, something like that.
 

NeoPhantom

Skeletron Prime
Considering they removed the 0.75 size or spiders, I doubt theyd want to have thevspider armor give an additional spider minion.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
The changelog says that the Valhalla Knight Helmet got a +10% melee damage bonus:


However, in-game this buff is not present, instead the Valhalla Knight Breastplate got it, while the helmet remains the same. Is this an error of the changelog or the game?
The changelog is correct... the tooltips are wrong.

gyazo.com


Also monk pants' crit doesn't say it only applies to melee
 

JohannSimm

Retinazer
The melee version of Mythril armor is currently disproportionately better than the magic and ranged equivalents, due to its set bonus +10% melee critical strike chance. The other two classes should at least have comparable set bonuses. Adamantite’s ranged set is also now completely outclassed by Frost armor.

Monk armor is still outclassed by Squire armor, and Apprentice armor is now completely outclassed by Forbidden armor (part of which is because Flameburst sentries are still useless, and the set bonus does nothing to help them).

Red Riding armor is now much better, but Huntress armor is still bad.

Chlorophyte armor is currently too expensive to be worth getting in most cases, as armors that are just as good are more easily obtainable. I think its cost in bars should be decreased to 10/20/16 – since Chlorophyte is needed for so many things, and its requirement of ore per bar is so high, this is more than fair.

Turtle armor has the same issue as Chlorophyte armor, except its defensive set bonus still isn’t good enough. It needs something else to make it worthwhile.

Cobalt armor is still never worth making, so I suggest that its cost in bars be made even less expensive. The only way a set of this armor will ever be worth making is if it’s extremely cheap.

(Credit goes to @Bame Jouvier for many of these observations: 1.4.1 Tier List)

Titanium armor’s cost in bars is still a reflection of when it had the old set bonus. Its total cost in bars can easily be reduced back to 54, and Adamantite’s can be reduced to 45 (making its cost in bars roughly equivalent to Frost and Forbidden armor, both of which have more utility in comparison).
 
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Starry Maiden

Official Terrarian
Summoner related discussion; but should the hornet staff be made craftable before Queen Bee? It's always skipped in progression as the Imp staff is easier to obtain than the Hornet Staff, outclassing said hornet staff. But if the hornet staff was craftable with like stingers, honey, and hive blocks, then maybe it'd make sense in progression, being the weapon used for injuring the world evils?
 

Ilmarinen

Terrarian
Summoner related discussion; but should the hornet staff be made craftable before Queen Bee? It's always skipped in progression as the Imp staff is easier to obtain than the Hornet Staff, outclassing said hornet staff. But if the hornet staff was craftable with like stingers, honey, and hive blocks, then maybe it'd make sense in progression, being the weapon used for injuring the world evils?
Wouldn't it be a little too powerful if you could get it before Queen Bee?
 

mathbrush

Terrarian
Monk armor is still outclassed by Squire armor, and Apprentice armor is now completely outclassed by Forbidden armor (part of which is because Flameburst sentries are still useless, and the set bonus does nothing to help them).

Monk armor adds +20% damage, +15% critical hit chance, and +20% melee speed. These act multiplicatively, giving a total damage boost of 1.2*1.15*1.2=1.656, or +65.6% damage for enemies with 0 defense. (In enemies with defense, the increase is even greater).

Squire armor adds only +15% damage and +15% critical hit change, for a total boost of 1.3225, or +32.25%. This is greater in enemies with defense, but the increase due to defense is less than that of Monk Armor.

So Monk Armor provides significantly more damage. The Ballista bonus is usually better than the lightning aura bonus, but lightning aura is better for Destroyer.

Summoner related discussion; but should the hornet staff be made craftable before Queen Bee? It's always skipped in progression as the Imp staff is easier to obtain than the Hornet Staff, outclassing said hornet staff. But if the hornet staff was craftable with like stingers, honey, and hive blocks, then maybe it'd make sense in progression, being the weapon used for injuring the world evils?

Not everyone's a power gamer. Sequence skipping isn't as common among regular players, and even among experienced players, many people kill Queen Bee early on summoner runs. I did that in my latest run. I had the Vampire Frog staff and still switched to the Hornets because the flying ability was pretty useful!
 

Square Izzy

Terrarian
Not everyone's a power gamer. Sequence skipping isn't as common among regular players, and even among experienced players, many people kill Queen Bee early on summoner runs. I did that in my latest run. I had the Vampire Frog staff and still switched to the Hornets because the flying ability was pretty useful!
It's not a power-gaming thing, it's easier to get imps than hornets, even though they're more powerful in most situations
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Monk armor adds +20% damage, +15% critical hit chance, and +20% melee speed. These act multiplicatively, giving a total damage boost of 1.2*1.15*1.2=1.656, or +65.6% damage for enemies with 0 defense. (In enemies with defense, the increase is even greater).

Squire armor adds only +15% damage and +15% critical hit change, for a total boost of 1.3225, or +32.25%. This is greater in enemies with defense, but the increase due to defense is less than that of Monk Armor.

So Monk Armor provides significantly more damage. The Ballista bonus is usually better than the lightning aura bonus, but lightning aura is better for Destroyer.
The melee speed buff only really applies to the true swords and terra blade, most melee weapons that rely on projectiles don't fire them any faster(rate of fire) with melee speed. As for the non projectile melee weapons... they're bad.

Also unless enemy defense is so high you're always dealing 1 damage, damage boosts are more effective for dealing with enemy defense than speed and critical boosts.
 

mathbrush

Terrarian
The melee speed buff only really applies to the true swords and terra blade, most melee weapons that rely on projectiles don't fire them any faster(rate of fire) with melee speed. As for the non projectile melee weapons... they're bad.

Also unless enemy defense is so high you're always dealing 1 damage, damage boosts are more effective for dealing with enemy defense than speed and critical boosts.

The best melee weapons around the time you have Monk armor are the Light Discs and the yoyos, both of which are directly boosted by melee speed.

And I took the defense calculation into account. Monk Armor boosts total damage more than Squire armor, so no matter which way you cut it it's observably better.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
The best melee weapons around the time you have Monk armor are the Light Discs and the yoyos, both of which are directly boosted by melee speed.
Melee speed makes yoyo strings longer and lets you throw light disks further. It has absoultely no effect on thier dps.

And I took the defense calculation into account. Monk Armor boosts total damage more than Squire armor, so no matter which way you cut it it's observably better.
When using the weapons you just mention monk's only real offensive advantage is that extra 5% melee damage, which doesn't compare to squire's very good 2hp/s life regen.
 

Starry Maiden

Official Terrarian
So... just was playing around with Bee Armor and Spinal Tap. I'm starting to notice that at most times I was getting completely outranged. The Wall of Flesh is extremely hard to approach without taking a lot of damage, especially with all the lasers and hungries. But whenever I used the Obsidian Armor, the range was overall much better for fighting the WoF.
 

whoneedsnamestbh

Eye of Cthulhu
So... just was playing around with Bee Armor and Spinal Tap. I'm starting to notice that at most times I was getting completely outranged. The Wall of Flesh is extremely hard to approach without taking a lot of damage, especially with all the lasers and hungries. But whenever I used the Obsidian Armor, the range was overall much better for fighting the WoF.

That’s why most people agree to keep the range bonus. The damage and speed are only being nerfed because, well, it’s so much higher than anything else available post-worm.
 

Starry Maiden

Official Terrarian
That’s why most people agree to keep the range bonus. The damage and speed are only being nerfed because, well, it’s so much higher than anything else available post-worm.
Perhaps. I do wonder though if the spinal tap should have a natural range increase. Even if Obsidian Armor had the same damage bonus as bee, not having a speed bonus at all, I feel like it'd still be better than bee armor because of the fact that you can fight the Wall of Flesh at a proper range instead of getting juggled by all of the hungries which constantly respawn, forcing you to retreat and continuously mark the hungries. This in turn results in the minions completely ignoring the boss which means that you lose about 90% of your damage.
 

NeoPhantom

Skeletron Prime
Perhaps. I do wonder though if the spinal tap should have a natural range increase. Even if Obsidian Armor had the same damage bonus as bee, not having a speed bonus at all, I feel like it'd still be better than bee armor because of the fact that you can fight the Wall of Flesh at a proper range instead of getting juggled by all of the hungries which constantly respawn, forcing you to retreat and continuously mark the hungries. This in turn results in the minions completely ignoring the boss which means that you lose about 90% of your damage.

While that would make the Bee Armor more viable with that whip against WoF, it would also extend the range of the same combo with Obsidian Armor, making it an even safer option regardless.

Too bad Queen Bee was always an optional boss that couldbe skipped, otherwise it would’ve been possible to block progression to Hellstone until after defeating her, thus locking Obsidian post-Queen Bee. And fixing this now is impossible unless a material from her were to be made necessary forcrafting the Obsidian Armor, which breaks theming quite a bit... Not like we can make the Queen Bee drop Obsidian Eyes materials, right? Haha
 

PeacefulPotato

Skeletron
Hello. I almost exclusively play Mobile pre-hardmode, which means I don't have to worry about autoswing. Autoswing is one of those weird things that makes a big difference in Desktop/laptop/console and is completely negligible in Mobile. With that in mind, I actually found almost no problems. Almost all the swords with autoswing have some other unique feature, such as increased crit chance for the katana or increased knockback for the slap hand. As I said, I don't really play hardmode, as in the last time I did hardmode was several years ago when the Mobile version was its own animal and has since received several major balancing updates. However, I do know that once you get the mechanical glove, which (I think) is an early hardmode item, autoswing becomes negligible. That means that I don't have to worry about a hardmode item that only benefits from autoswing, as you could just don the mechanical glove and ignore it, and any of those items are a problem already. Long story short, I think you should give all weapons autoswing. This is more of an annoyance than a major gameplay issue anyways, and it's not like there are many weapons that's sole existance is based on autoswing, otherwise, DR probably would have never re-added it. Thanks!
Edit: Other types of weapons (ranged, flail, etc.) require more precision and less stabby stabby, so I'm fine with full autoswing only applying to swords and whips
 
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