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Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Square Izzy

Terrarian
Uhhh, I think you undermine the main selling point, the 1/6 dodge chance. Without the confusion debuff and the crit chance, I would still use the accessory just for that.
Exactly, I saw the nerf to the damage portion of the accessory as a buff because of its use against enraged EoL
 
Uhhh, I think you undermine the main selling point, the 1/6 dodge chance. Without the confusion debuff and the crit chance, I would still use the accessory just for that.
Uhhh, i think you missed the whole first half of the post where I talk about the Scarf's better scaling average defense values.
 

Dr. Endie

Official Terrarian
Uhhh, i think you missed the whole first half of the post where I talk about the Scarf's better scaling average defense values.
Sure, Worm Scarf is good and all, but that doesn't mean Brain of Confusion's dodge is without potential. Without the crit chance and confusion, it's still solid. In fact, if you combine it with master ninja gear later on, you straight up have a 1/4 dodge chance. Worm Scarf may be perhaps more consistent most of the time, but Brain of Confusion is undeniably more satisfying to use.
 
Sure, Worm Scarf is good and all, but that doesn't mean Brain of Confusion's dodge is without potential. Without the crit chance and confusion, it's still solid. In fact, if you combine it with master ninja gear later on, you straight up have a 1/4 dodge chance. Worm Scarf may be perhaps more consistent most of the time, but Brain of Confusion is undeniably more satisfying to use.
>Sure, Worm Scarf is good and all, but that doesn't mean Brain of Confusion's dodge is without potential.

I didn't say it's without potential, I said it's a sidegrade to the scarf and that in my opinion the pros are now struggling to be significant enough to outweight the cons compared to the scarf.

>Without the crit chance and confusion, it's still solid.

Borderline serviceable for daytime EoL *at best* if that were the case.

>In fact, if you combine it with master ninja gear later on, you straight up have a 1/4 dodge chance.

And if you combine the scarf with the effects of the Endurance Potion and the Frozen Shield - you get 10%+25%+17%+52% damage reduction, resulting in around 52%×1.1=57.2%=57% average with ninja, as opposed to (10%+25%)×1.27=44.45%=44% average with the same set-up but using the brain instead of the scarf, if we calculate the brain and the ninja to stack additively (which you did). That's on the assumption of zero impact from Mindtrick's cooldown, meaning the brain's calculations are biased in it's favor.

>Worm Scarf may be perhaps more consistent most of the time, but Brain of Confusion is undeniably more satisfying to use.

Absolutely deniably. I'm denying right now that it's more satisfying.
 

Dr. Endie

Official Terrarian
>Sure, Worm Scarf is good and all, but that doesn't mean Brain of Confusion's dodge is without potential.

I didn't say it's without potential, I said it's a sidegrade to the scarf and that in my opinion the pros are now struggling to be significant enough to outweight the cons compared to the scarf.

>Without the crit chance and confusion, it's still solid.

Borderline serviceable for daytime EoL *at best* if that were the case.

>In fact, if you combine it with master ninja gear later on, you straight up have a 1/4 dodge chance.

And if you combine the scarf with the effects of the Endurance Potion and the Frozen Shield - you get 10%+25%+17%+52% damage reduction, resulting in around 52%×1.1=57.2%=57% average with ninja, as opposed to (10%+25%)×1.27=44.45%=44% average with the same set-up but using the brain instead of the scarf, if we calculate the brain and the ninja to stack additively (which you did). That's on the assumption of zero impact from Mindtrick's cooldown, meaning the brain's calculations are biased in it's favor.

>Worm Scarf may be perhaps more consistent most of the time, but Brain of Confusion is undeniably more satisfying to use.

Absolutely deniably. I'm denying right now that it's more satisfying.
Eh, fine. You win, I suppose. I like the Brain the way it is, personally.
 

SsIras

Terrarian
>Sure, Worm Scarf is good and all, but that doesn't mean Brain of Confusion's dodge is without potential.

I didn't say it's without potential, I said it's a sidegrade to the scarf and that in my opinion the pros are now struggling to be significant enough to outweight the cons compared to the scarf.

>Without the crit chance and confusion, it's still solid.

Borderline serviceable for daytime EoL *at best* if that were the case.

>In fact, if you combine it with master ninja gear later on, you straight up have a 1/4 dodge chance.

And if you combine the scarf with the effects of the Endurance Potion and the Frozen Shield - you get 10%+25%+17%+52% damage reduction, resulting in around 52%×1.1=57.2%=57% average with ninja, as opposed to (10%+25%)×1.27=44.45%=44% average with the same set-up but using the brain instead of the scarf, if we calculate the brain and the ninja to stack additively (which you did). That's on the assumption of zero impact from Mindtrick's cooldown, meaning the brain's calculations are biased in it's favor.

>Worm Scarf may be perhaps more consistent most of the time, but Brain of Confusion is undeniably more satisfying to use.

Absolutely deniably. I'm denying right now that it's more satisfying.
People forget you can literally get both of them in the same world now. This is not a talk about what's better, both are OP, people need to stop trying to buff overpowered items because "their counterparts are better".
This happen to Scourge of Corruption and the Cursed Inferno debuff.
I'm not against changes to make these items more comparable, but I would prefer to have these changes to be a nerf.
 

J Bame

Terrarian
1.4.1 buffs made the Melee Mythril armor set a sidegrade to Adamantite Armor, with less defense and melee speed for just all-in DPS. However the two other Helmets are still objectively worse versions of Adamantite.

What about changing the set bonuses on the Hood and Hat to +20% and +10% crit respectively? I like the idea of an armor that just goes for DPS and forgoes everything else and Mythril fits for that. Adamantite can remain the "general stats" package.

Additionally, Cobalt armor is still not worth it. It's at least a little better than the late phm sets but still worse than Palladium and overall not worth the time invested mining it.
 

ItsTheKais

Steampunker
It wasn't actually changed in 1.4 or beyond, but I'd like to bring up the reindeer mount. It's my favorite mount for aesthetics, but functionally it's... lacking, considering it's apparently intended to be on the same level as the UFO.

My first issue is just with getting it in the first place. It's a less than one percent drop... from the strongest boss in the Frost Moon... and only after you get to the fifteenth wave... and the drop rate still never reaches one percent if you make it further than that! The UFO, by comparison, has a 16% drop rate from the Saucer, no matter how far you are in the invasion.

Second issue: it handles like a truck with three flat tires. Given that the reindeer's intended niche appears to be high-speed flight, this is a big problem because it makes it very hard to avoid things, and wastes a lot of time getting back up to speed when you crash into something, which is inevitable because the reindeer has limited flight time (limited even harder when you don't start from top speed) and must return to obstacle-laden earth eventually. It's usually faster and less involved to just fly across the world with whatever wings you have at that point.

I'd suggest a substantial drop rate increase, and that its acceleration (and possibly top speed?) be increased a bit. If we want to be daring, I'll even float an additional buff: stop the flight time from counting down as long as it's hovering at its max horizontal speed. The idea being that this mount is a good candidate to fill the Black-Spot-shaped hole in our hearts, if only it were actually any good at the thing it seems to be designed to do.
 
People forget you can literally get both of them in the same world now. This is not a talk about what's better, both are OP, people need to stop trying to buff overpowered items because "their counterparts are better".
This happen to Scourge of Corruption and the Cursed Inferno debuff.
I'm not against changes to make these items more comparable, but I would prefer to have these changes to be a nerf.
I'm already contemplating replacing the Brain/Scarf in my lategame loadouts. And I've only ever dared dedicating my precious accessory slots to both at the same time exactly once in a meme loadout.

If your issue is with the fact those earlygame items manage to stay relevant for so long - I invite you to take a look at the boot accessories, with a substantial ammount of people keeping their Terrasparks on even after Moon Lord.

They're solid accessories, but no way in hell am I willing to agree that they are overpowered.
 

JohannSimm

Retinazer
Rare enemies like Nymphs, Doctor Bones, Tim, etc. should only require one kill to unlock their Bestiary entry.

Anything that can be detected by the lifeform analyzer should require either 1, 5, 10, or 15 kills to unlock its full information. (For example, biome mimics could require 5 kills, and Blood Moon fishing enemies could require 5-15, depending on rarity.) As it is now, for many rare enemies, the information will realistically never be filled out.
 

scientistB

Dungeon Spirit
It wasn't actually changed in 1.4 or beyond, but I'd like to bring up the reindeer mount. It's my favorite mount for aesthetics, but functionally it's... lacking, considering it's apparently intended to be on the same level as the UFO.

My first issue is just with getting it in the first place. It's a less than one percent drop... from the strongest boss in the Frost Moon... and only after you get to the fifteenth wave... and the drop rate still never reaches one percent if you make it further than that! The UFO, by comparison, has a 16% drop rate from the Saucer, no matter how far you are in the invasion.

Second issue: it handles like a truck with three flat tires. Given that the reindeer's intended niche appears to be high-speed flight, this is a big problem because it makes it very hard to avoid things, and wastes a lot of time getting back up to speed when you crash into something, which is inevitable because the reindeer has limited flight time (limited even harder when you don't start from top speed) and must return to obstacle-laden earth eventually. It's usually faster and less involved to just fly across the world with whatever wings you have at that point.

I'd suggest a substantial drop rate increase, and that its acceleration (and possibly top speed?) be increased a bit. If we want to be daring, I'll even float an additional buff: stop the flight time from counting down as long as it's hovering at its max horizontal speed. The idea being that this mount is a good candidate to fill the Black-Spot-shaped hole in our hearts, if only it were actually any good at the thing it seems to be designed to do.
This makes sense to me.
The Reindeer was the first mount ever introduced to the game, so its rarity was justified back then. I can see it being either more common or buffed in some way, if it were ever to be touched up on.
At the same time I don't particularly mind its rarity, given its status as the first mount.
 

lorddamien

Duke Fishron
Rare enemies like Nymphs, Doctor Bones, Tim, etc. should only require one kill to unlock their Bestiary entry.

Anything that can be detected by the lifeform analyzer should require either 1, 5, 10, or 15 kills to unlock its full information. (For example, biome mimics could require 5 kills, and Blood Moon fishing enemies could require 5-15, depending on rarity.) As it is now, for many rare enemies, the information will realistically never be filled out.
I agree with this. I've been filling out the info for every enemy as I encounter them and it really does take forever for some of them. 50 dreadnautilus kills was especially tedious. To be honest, if it wasn't for journey mode's 10x spawn rate option, I don't think I would've had the patience for the usual suspects you mentioned (doctor bones, tim, etc).
 

JohannSimm

Retinazer
50 dreadnautilus kills was especially tedious.
That should really be 1-5 kills. I can't believe it's not lower. Some of these entries need to be filled out at the rate you're realistically going to encounter these enemies. Otherwise, the information getting filled out will never be a natural occurrence. Instead of it just happening naturally, you have to make an extreme effort to fill out those rare enemy entries. And the current issue is that those entries are never going to get filled out naturally within the regular timeframe of progression. It becomes an afterthought.

Also, Spiked Slimes and Pirate's Curses are still in need of Bestiary entries. It makes sense now to give Spiked Slimes a Bestiary entry, since boss minions are now unlocked with their respective bosses (which makes Spiked Slimes an automatic unlock even on non-Expert worlds).

Regular, Golden, and Shadow Mimics should receive separate entries, each requiring 5 kills to unlock. The other mimic variants should require five kills as well (except Present Mimics).
 
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ShinyLine

Terrarian
Well, I'm back again with another idea for the Summoner Class. (idk if it was already requested)

If we'll don't have more Summoner Armors with "Whip Playstyle" (I only can see the Tiki Armor for that), why not an Accessory? Maybe from the ironic Summoner Goblin. That can also be a reason for Summoners for even doing the Goblin Army in Hardmode.
 
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NeoPhantom

Skeletron Prime
Well, I'm back again with another idea for the Summoner Class. (idk if it was already requested)

If we'll don't have more Summoner Armors with "Whip Playstyle" (I only can see the Tiki Armor for that), why not an Accessory? Maybe from the ironic Summoner Goblin. That can also be a reason for Summoners for even doing the Goblin Army in Hardmode.
Or at least a Shadowflame Whip... talk about an ironic enemy.

(Dont think Tiki shoild get it as it has higher summon count than Spooky. Spooky getting it makes more sense with the Dark Harvest, but its unlikely any will get it. Maybe they could reduce the Spooky summon count by 1 so it has 2 less than Tiki and then add the whip range/speed.)
 
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