• Journey's End on PC - Find info here and here. Please report bugs and issues for PC 1.4 and 1.4.1 to Re-Logic here.
  • Journey's End on Mobile - Find info here. Report bugs for Mobile 1.4 to DR Studios at this link and give as much detail as possible.
  • 1.4 will bring many changes to the PC version. We strongly advise making plans to back up your worlds and players prior to updating your game. More details here.
  • Console and Switch - The latest news can be found here. To report a bug, please use this link.

Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Please I implore you before we cap off terraria can we please get the patch to pump duplication reverted to pre 1.4 behavior or may we please get a Infinite honey bucket/sponge. Ideally we would get both. There is no reason not to have the pump liquid duplication method available since we have countless other methods of liquid duplication and the pump method was the only one automatable. Also having a Infinite Honey bucket/sponge would not only make sense but would be a very nice thing to have.
if you want to get a lot of honey quickly use honey bombs.
 

Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
Please I implore you before we cap off terraria can we please get the patch to pump duplication reverted to pre 1.4 behavior or may we please get a Infinite honey bucket/sponge. Ideally we would get both. There is no reason not to have the pump liquid duplication method available since we have countless other methods of liquid duplication and the pump method was the only one automatable. Also having a Infinite Honey bucket/sponge would not only make sense but would be a very nice thing to have.

I'm not sure tracking down the cause of whatever happened there will be as easy as you think.

Liquid duplication was never a "feature", it was at best sorta like hoiking, a bug that was popular enough that we didn't remove it, though not one we actively protected.

We didn't make any effort specifically to impact it, so it came to me as a surprise to hear from some people that it didn't really work after 1.4. The issue is . . . there was no one change that specifically would have killed it off. There were three whole years of code adjustments and bug fixes, many of them to pretty ugly liquid based bugs, all in one update, and any number of them could have been the culprit. Investigating which one was responsible for impacting pump duplication would be very time consuming, and might ultimately require rebreaking liquid physics (one of the oldest and weirdest sections of the code as I understand it), all to reinstate a bug in the first place.

As it stands, given where we are currently with development, I just don't see this as a priority, even adding new items instead either. As qwerty said, however, you can make Honey Bombs, or even more efficiently late game, Honey Rockets, which can be used to make MASSIVE quantities of Honey infinitely, and remove it with Dry Rockets. It may not be automatable, but that's all I can really offer, unfortunately.
 

CellarDoor96

Terrarian
That actually reminds me, I mentioned earlier that it would be nice to have the Celebration Mk2 create liquids with rockets, but was told the liquid creation would be too much for the game to handle; later on I thought of a small suggestion about that, but kind of forgot to mention it.

Basically, if the volume of flowing liquid is the problem, then would it help to just reduce the amount of liquid created by rockets specifically when they're used with the Mk2? Alternatively, maybe the game could cap the amount of liquid produced if there's already liquid flowing, but that seems like it'd be slightly more complicated to implement.

I know there's little chance of stuff getting changed now but just figured I'd mention it since it was related to the topic at hand. In terms of actual balance, the recent changes seem great and nothing really stands out as a major problem now.
 

Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
That actually reminds me, I mentioned earlier that it would be nice to have the Celebration Mk2 create liquids with rockets, but was told the liquid creation would be too much for the game to handle; later on I thought of a small suggestion about that, but kind of forgot to mention it.

Basically, if the volume of flowing liquid is the problem, then would it help to just reduce the amount of liquid created by rockets specifically when they're used with the Mk2? Alternatively, maybe the game could cap the amount of liquid produced if there's already liquid flowing, but that seems like it'd be slightly more complicated to implement.

I know there's little chance of stuff getting changed now but just figured I'd mention it since it was related to the topic at hand. In terms of actual balance, the recent changes seem great and nothing really stands out as a major problem now.

Gotta be honest, this seems like a counter-productive circle here.

Celeb MK2 is not very good for anything in any way precise: the only reason it would be good for making liquids is because it would make so freaking much of it. So much that its too much.

So if we specially adjusted it to NOT make as much (which is a time investment to rework the system), then now all you have is a highly inaccurate liquid creator that does the job less well than other accurate rocket launchers could. We've now invested time to gain effectively nothing.

This is compounding on the fact that the rockets don't make liquid because normally, liquid rockets convert the rocket projectiles into a special version of each one. This would either require that we make a secondary system to allow for the default projectiles to retain the liquid generation ability (a time investment), or it would require art time, asset addition/implementation and creation of something like 20 new projectile IDs to give Celeb MK2 Water/Lava/Honey/Dry Rocket projectiles (a BIG time investment).

You can see where I'm going with this?
No matter what we do here, its going to take a non-minimal amount of code time all to get to a situation which is not that desirable in the first place (aka, an inaccurate liquid producing nightmare that has to be hamstrung just so it doesn't crash the game). This being well after we are calling content/mechanic additions "over". In my assessment, if I had one last thing I'd want to blow some code time on as a last hurrah . . . this certainly wouldn't be in my top 100 choices. Just personally.
 

CellarDoor96

Terrarian
I see, thanks for the response. Very understandable, just figured I'd mention it.

Thinking over the state of the game now, there's nothing really glaring that I'd say needs changing. There are a lot of small things I'd prefer, but nothing that's worth doing at this point. Honestly I think the game is in a great place right now.
 

micmou

Terrarian
Well that is a shame on the liquid pumps and the not happening of a honey bucket/sponge. Although it doesnt seem like it would be to hard to accomplish you could essentially do the same thing you did with the lava bucket it probably is easier to make than any of the past balance changes. Make it golden yellow instead of lava change lava to honey and boom. (Although I am sure there is more to it from my limited understanding.) Ohh well thanks for the reply on the subject and maybe if the stars align just right you can sneak in a honey bucket/sponge :p
 

Scratch Lunin

Eater of Worlds
Well that is a shame on the liquid pumps and the not happening of a honey bucket/sponge. Although it doesnt seem like it would be to hard to accomplish you could essentially do the same thing you did with the lava bucket it probably is easier to make than any of the past balance changes. Make it golden yellow instead of lava change lava to honey and boom. (Although I am sure there is more to it from my limited understanding.) Ohh well thanks for the reply on the subject and maybe if the stars align just right you can sneak in a honey bucket/sponge :p
Yeah, seems like an oversight that wouldn't be too hard to fix. The other two liquids have bottomless buckets and sponges, so why not give honey the same? It's only fair, really.

If needed, it could only be obtained Hardmode/Post-Mechs to make it a bit less overpowered.
 

mathbrush

Terrarian
I'm commenting on 1.4.1.2 as I go, but I'll definitely say that the Desert Tiger staff seems better. It performs well against Mothron and I used to discard it for the Deadly Sphere Staff, but now it seems to hold its own.
 

micmou

Terrarian
At the end of the day though the argument to use bombs/rockets etc to make honey can be said for the other two liquids as Scratch Lunin said it seems silly that we have the other two liquids to have this feature but not honey it feels weird not to have the complete set.
 

inamiminusone

Terrarian
Hello.

I just created this account to say... I don't like the handling changes made to the Celestial Starboard. They were not necessary because the Witch's Broom, Cosmic Car Key and similar mounts that offer good "handling" in flight already exist (especially for builders). The Celestial Starboard now seems slower diagonally because of the immediate deceleration (despite top speed remaining the same). It felt twitchier and more responsive before the update, and I feel like it was easier to dodge projectiles with it (such as Phantasmal Bolts). Now it will even slow down before it begins to ascend even when holding up to speed up the ascent.

Please revert these changes. I liked the way it handled before 1.4.1.2.
 

VVV101

Plantera
I already asked that question before and didn't get any dev response on that.
Don't know where else should I say that, but why boss fights are still not restricting any hostile mobs from spawning during that fight? And yes, I know about all Calming effects of Terraria (Calming potion, Sunflowers and Peace Candles). Still, not a perfect solution. It was just stupid how much times I died because of stupid random mobs spawn.
For what particular reason this is still not fixed?
 

FluffyDog

Terrarian
Ok, I been reading whole thread since the beggining of 1.4, and one feature I was curious, was the "rotten eggs ignore NPC defense", @Leinfors, that feature couldn't be added?
 

CellarDoor96

Terrarian
The Celestial Starboard now seems slower diagonally because of the immediate deceleration (despite top speed remaining the same). It felt twitchier and more responsive before the update, and I feel like it was easier to dodge projectiles with it (such as Phantasmal Bolts). Now it will even slow down before it begins to ascend even when holding up to speed up the ascent.

I've read this like 5 times and have no idea what you're saying.

Oh actually, on a completely different note, I just remembered something that could use changing: for some reason, the Mini Nukes are both white rarity, when the materials used to make them are all higher rarities. Not really related to balance except that it means they're destroyed when dropped in lava, but I thought it was worth mentioning, since it seems like an oversight and should be easy to fix.
 
Last edited:

inamiminusone

Terrarian
I've read this like 5 times and have no idea what you're saying.
Sorry that I couldn't have made myself clearer. The Celestial Starboard no longer behaves like regular wings do; instead of maintaining momentum like you would with other wings when you let go of the controls, the Celestial Starboard decelerates almost immediately (this is more noticeable when you hover); this was the change that the changelog refers to; the changes to "improve handling" that in my opinion were not necessary. If you used the Celestial Starboard before 1.4.1.2 you may have noticed this. They controlled similarly to how you'd control them now if you were holding a Portal Gun (obviously less extreme).

What I meant by it feeling slower diagonally is, it will first decelerate horizontally before ascending or descending, instead of maintaining some of the horizontal momentum and then arcing upwards (or downwards).

The reason I don't like this change particularly is because it becomes uncomfortable for me to keep the controls (the keys on my keyboard) pressed/held to maintain speed because I can't move my left hand very well. It's also hard for me to bend my fingers, and remapping the controls doesn't really help. Before, I would've just had to "tap" the keys (especially when moving close to the ground).
 
Last edited:

whoneedsnamestbh

Eye of Cthulhu
Vampire Knives:
-Damage: 29-> 33
-Knockback: 2.75%-> 3.25%
-Life Return: 7.5%-> 8%
-Life cap: 2 hearts-> 3 hearts

first up is Vampire knives, the legendary weapon that got nerfed way too hard, at the time it seemed to make sense but with Expert and Master mode the defense of enemies is just too high for these to do any damage, I think that reverting a few nerfs to the knives will make them actually feel worth it, the damage should be buffed a slight bit so it benefits from damage a little bit more, knockback should be increased so it can keep enemies away better, the life return at first doesn't make sense, but a slight increase will make it so you don't have to deal 14 damage to receive 1 heart, now only needing 13 damage to get 1 heart back. in an update they added an internal cap to life stealing items of 2 hearts or apparently it's like 36 health, but increasing it by 1 heart will make the lifesteal a little bit more effective, but not too much to make them feel extremely overpowered due to how annoying it is to get these weapons. Vampire Knives were overpowered and I don't want them to be overpowered again, but they feel so weak now with all these enemies that essentially negate the healing effect of the weapon.


Scourge of the Corruptor:
-Damage: 70-> 78
-Damage of Mini-Eaters: 75%-> 80%
-Speed up the Mini-Eaters

Scourge of the Corruptor has always felt a little bit weak to me, I didn't know why they just did, increasing the damage and damage on the Mini-Eaters will make them feel a lot stronger, this weapon should feel like it's as good as the Vampire Knives but without the lifesteal and just stronger dps. Speeding up the Mini-Eaters is mainly because they can have trouble hitting fast targets like Empress of Light, Duke FIshron, Etc, because they often have trouble keeping up with bosses and hitting them. This weapon is really cool but it's just a little on the weak side, these changes could make it feel that much better.

I have to say that I feel like you’re sleeping on the melee weapons a little bit. The other ones could use a buff, but the melee biome weapons are pretty excellent.

-Vampire Knives aren’t made to be offensive, they don’t need any higher damage or lifesteal. They already yank an almost dead player up to full in record time, only combatted by Specter Armor, which building around hurts all your damage, all around the board. And personally I never found them hindered much by defense - with the Knives, you can afford to focus into an offensive build, which then buffs the Knives further. You can get as much as 50 damage on them with a good build. Only rare item I will go out of my way to get if I don’t pick it up on accident.

-Scourge of the Corruptor will never be as good as Knives. Period. But it sounds like you’re using them in the wrong situation - they are made for crowd slaughtering. Ideal melee choice for the Eclipse, Moon events and even the Martians. They’re not made to be a powerful single target choice because the Eater spam is meant to chew away at many enemies at once. I wouldn’t say no to small buffs to it, just due to its rarity, but if you happen to get a key it’s also a great weapon choice on its own.

It’s also worth noting that it’s very easy to accidentally get at least one of these weapons just by gathering other resources. Doesn’t happen every time, but it can happen once in a while and then you have access to a great weapon the second Plantera dies.
 
Last edited:

Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
Hello.

I just created this account to say... I don't like the handling changes made to the Celestial Starboard. They were not necessary because the Witch's Broom, Cosmic Car Key and similar mounts that offer good "handling" in flight already exist (especially for builders). The Celestial Starboard now seems slower diagonally because of the immediate deceleration (despite top speed remaining the same). It felt twitchier and more responsive before the update, and I feel like it was easier to dodge projectiles with it (such as Phantasmal Bolts). Now it will even slow down before it begins to ascend even when holding up to speed up the ascent.

Please revert these changes. I liked the way it handled before 1.4.1.2.

They were necessary because every single iteration of Celestial Starboard has seemingly had a handling issue.

In 1.4, it didn't properly work with dashing.

We fixed that in 1.4.1, but it had an undetected side-effect of being "slippery", which had even more complaints.

We fixed that in 1.4.1.2, but now apparently there is some diagonal slowness issue.

IDK what to say, but it sounds like its not possible to please everyone. I received a ton of complaints about the slippery behavior, but what I hear from you is that you want it back. We can't do both, and the slippery behavior was never intended. :(
 

CellarDoor96

Terrarian
I agree that the biome chest weapons should be really good, better than other weapons of their tier, because of how rare they are. With that said I think VK and Scourge don't need any more buffs, and I think Frost Hydra is okay where it is as well. The Piranha Gun and Rainbow Gun are the ones that really need the help, imo. I think giving the Piranha Gun armor penetration a la Nettle Burst would improve it a lot; not sure about the Rainbow Gun beyond just a damage buff, I guess armor pen would work for it too but it doesn't really suit it flavor-wise.

With all that said, I don't know if it's a big enough issue to be worth patching.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom