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Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Hyperkatmanders

Official Terrarian
We're able to get Band of Starpower in crimson worlds now, and we're able to get the other evil biomes seeds from the dryad during certain times I can't remember, but we can't get both evil biome weapons in the same world? I mean it feels like we should be able to get both in 1 world from either getting a evil biome key and combining it with other evil materials from that biome to craft the weapon? I just feel like it's something lot's of people want but no one asked why it didn't happen?
 

mathbrush

Terrarian
Related to specific buffs in 1.4.1.2, if there is any slight tweaking of them, I wonder if Christmas Tree Sword could get just a little bit more, like 80% or 85% damage on projectiles. It would be nice if the projectiles could one-shot an eater of souls in Expert Mode when you're moderately buffed up (Beetle Armor, Celestial Shell, Fire Gauntlet). Right now it takes two hits to kill them.

Just using them as a benchmark since they're such a common pest in the late game, and since the other Frost Moon weapons let you explode them more easily.
 

Unftf

Terrarian
@biome chest items
Did some testing with same tier armor/accessories/enemies (at master).
I think their damage dont need big changes. But some notes here:

Vampire Knives:
Good as a secondary weapon because it has lifesteal. Can also be used by non-melee player. It looks like melee speed has no impact in fire rate (intended?)

Scourge of the Corruptor:
Very good vs many enemies. All fine. Maybe even a little too strong. But I think thats fine because its a biome chest weapon.

Piranha Gun:
Damage OK but handling not that nice. They often dont spread that much from each other and fly in a random angle which dont need to be equal to the targeted mouse position. If they dont hit anything they will fly back. That means it depends at luck if you hit a distant enemy. Not that nice for such a long attack animation time.
If they dont find a new target after killing some enemy they fly back. Often hard to see if only one or two did fly back.
Some ideas how it could be changed:
1) For first target they fly united in a straight line (at clicked position) and spread after hitting their first target. Two of them will try to find another target in close range if nothing else there they will attack the same target.
2) If one Piranha can't find another target in his range it will check for possible targets in rage of his mates.
3.) If no other enemy nearby they will attack the same target until a new target is in close range
4.) If all have no new targets in range they move all together back to the player

Rainbow Gun:
Damage Ok. Nice to have (as Hyperkatmanders wrote) would be some longer horizontal line (maybe +5..15 blocks) and/or even better some longer duration (25+ sec)

Staff of the Frost Hydra::
Damage Good as single sentry. Multiple Frost Hydra sometimes not that good because e.g. 5 Frost Hydra aiming at a single target often do only 1-2 damage instances at the target.
A little boring because it has no fancy unique/rare attack pattern as the other biome chest weapons.

Desert Tiger Staff:
Damage good but is it intended that he wont attack anything below the (flying) player (30 block range) but enemies at 50 horizontal range?



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[..] but we can't get both evil biome weapons in the same world? I mean it feels like we should be able to get both in 1 world[..]
with easter egg seed 5162020 you can have both of them in one world
 

Lythael

Terrarian
So Leinfors i recall you were mentioning something about implementing Hellfire Threads into Terraspark Boots recipe chain.
I assume this idea didn't make it into the update after all?
 

Coolegghead

Terrarian
The queen bee boss needs to despawn if your distance to her gets too large. Right now it is way too easy to cheese the boss fight by abusing the magic conch.

You can easily use the magic conch to teleport out of the jungle underground, heal up by either by the nurse or just waiting. If the bee gets close, you can just use the conch again and teleport all the way to the other side of the map. On small maps it takes about 20-30 seconds for the queen to catch up to you, only for you to be able to do it again. Once you're fully healed you can go to the ocean closest to the jungle, and in most cases you can get in the underground jungle before queen bee arrives again. This removes basically all the skill needed in the fight as any damage taken can now just be healed without much consequence. It will cost some money if your're using the nurse, but even that is not required as you can just wait at the oceans until you're healed up. I was able to beat the bee on expert without any preperation other than having a sunfury, some crimson armor and a few healing potions, but I don't even think they are required. I would in normal situations have build an arena, make some ohter potions and dodge most of her attacks, but that was just not necessary using the magic conch.

I'm quite surprised I cannot find forum posts or videos on the internet abusing the same strategy (although I can be blind, thats certainly a possibility). There are some other ways to cheese some of the other bosses, but in most cases this takes lots of preperation. This only needs a magic conch to work. It would probably be best if it is fixed as I am certainly not able to make myself not press that magic conch and I think I'm not the only one. All of this would be fixed if queen bee despawns if you get to far away, something most other bosses do.

NOTE: while reseaching this in my game a bit, I noticed the destroyer also does not despawn if the player-destroyer distance gets large, so I think this should also be possible for the destroyer in theory, but in most playthroughs I can beat the destroyer quite easily, so I never used it for him. Using this with the destroyer will also kill any npc in the destroyers way, something that does not happen with queen bee.
 
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Lythael

Terrarian
Also can we discuss how BS rare Obsidian Rose is and is a crafting requirement now for the Lava Warders.
Leinfors Imps are not as common as you think and 2% chance to drop this is just complete slap in the face.

People for days tried to get Obsidian rose with no avail.
I see threads asking to trade Obsidian rose popping up very often on Steam forums.

Lava charm is rare enough don't need another crap RNG layer added in.
Sorry if i sound a bit pissed off its cause i am a little about this change.

Then again since this was final update there is no chance to change this or improve the drop chance at least on higher difficulties.... Or add alternative way to obtain it
so RIP

EDIT: Oh and don't you love how Imps occassionally refuse to spawn like at all for 20-30 minutes straight despite you moving or having suitable space for them to teleport and regardless of having Water candle and Battle potion active. Making it even more tedious to get Obsidian Rose.
This was such a needed change /s
 
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whoneedsnamestbh

Eye of Cthulhu
Speaking of Obsidian Rose, the Obsidian Skull Rose cannot be used in Lava Waders, even though Obsidian WWB or Molten Charm can. Meaning, if you make Obsidian Skull Rose, you’re cheating yourself out of Lava Waders even though it’s the same set of base materials.

Lava Waders should have at least one more recipe:

Obsidian Skull Rose + Magma Charm + Water Walking Boots.

It’s strange that this isn’t a thing, and to me seems like a plain oversight. Ik the chance has passed for balance, but if one more bugfix comes out I can’t imagine it being difficult to implement this, especially since it’s more an oversight correction than a balance change.
 

Mail

Official Terrarian
Was Amphibian boots stacking ascent speed with other frog leg variants ever confirmed to be intentional? I can't seem to find a mention of it on the forums.
 

JohannSimm

Retinazer
Speaking of Obsidian Rose, the Obsidian Skull Rose cannot be used in Lava Waders, even though Obsidian WWB or Molten Charm can. Meaning, if you make Obsidian Skull Rose, you’re cheating yourself out of Lava Waders even though it’s the same set of base materials.

Lava Waders should have at least one more recipe:

Obsidian Skull Rose + Magma Charm + Water Walking Boots.

It’s strange that this isn’t a thing, and to me seems like a plain oversight. Ik the chance has passed for balance, but if one more bugfix comes out I can’t imagine it being difficult to implement this, especially since it’s more an oversight correction than a balance change.
Technically, it would require four new recipes to support every combination. Otherwise, if you craft either your Lava Charm or your Water Walking Boots with an Obsidian Skull, you then lose the ability to craft them with your Obsidian Skull Rose. The addition of the singular recipe would only be a benefit if you have both unmodified Water Walking Boots and an unmodified Lava Charm – if you've already tinkered either of those items, you'd then have to go hunting for either new boots, a new charm, or a new rose.

To avoid this, all four of these recipes would need to be added:
– Water Walking Boots + Lava Charm + Obsidian Skull Rose = Lava Waders
– Water Walking Boots + Molten Charm + Obsidian Skull Rose = Lava Waders
– Obsidian Water Walking Boots + Lava Charm + Obsidian Skull Rose = Lava Waders
– Obsidian Water Walking Boots + Molten Charm + Obsidian Skull Rose = Lava Waders

Which would leave Lava Waders with seven possible recipes – because in addition to the new recipe, you now have an alternate ingredient for all of the existing recipes. Which is a hot mess.

There's only one other solution I can think of: have Obsidian Skull Rose replace Obsidian Rose entirely within the existing three recipes. But the price to pay there is increasing the crafting requirement for each recipe by an additional 20 Obsidian.
 
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Talerax

Official Terrarian
There's only one other solution I can think of: have Obsidian Skull Rose replace Obsidian Rose entirely within the existing three recipes. But the price to pay there is increasing the crafting requirement for each recipe by an additional 20 Obsidian.

I guess we can also simplify into one recipe that just use all of three obsidian version (Obsidian Water Walking Boots + Molten Charm + Obsidian Skull Rose), then reduce the crafting cost of obsidian skull.
 

Kirby737

Terrarian
Also can we discuss how BS rare Obsidian Rose is and is a crafting requirement now for the Lava Warders.
Leinfors Imps are not as common as you think and 2% chance to drop this is just complete slap in the face.
Really? In my experience imps aren't that rare, and I easily got 3 Obsidian Roses without even grinding for them. But your experience is different.
Then again since this was final update there is no chance to change this or improve the drop chance at least on higher difficulties.... Or add alternative way to obtain it
so RIP
Do you know that they can still make balance changes right? It was only the final major update, we can still get tweaks here and there.
EDIT: Oh and don't you love how Imps occassionally refuse to spawn like at all for 20-30 minutes straight despite you moving or having suitable space for them to teleport and regardless of having Water candle and Battle potion active. Making it even more tedious to get Obsidian Rose.
This was such a needed change /s
Were you in Hardmode? If not, then you either had REALLY bad luck or you found a bug.
 

BuffIing

Plantera
Really? In my experience imps aren't that rare, and I easily got 3 Obsidian Roses without even grinding for them. But your experience is different.
After fishing in lava for about 3 hours I didn't even get one. And I was in the underworld letting my vampire frogs kill every imp that spawned. Imps really are not common. I didn't even get the banner for them in that time.
 

Lythael

Terrarian
Really? In my experience imps aren't that rare, and I easily got 3 Obsidian Roses without even grinding for them. But your experience is different.

Yes really.. 2% chance from a mob that only occassionally spawns among hordes of other underworld enemies. Even with all the eneny spawn buffs is way too low. And its not just my problem since like i said i seen trade requests and complaints about Obsidian rose's rarity quite often.

You just got lucky which can happen i was able to get several Frozen shells while farming souls of light and RoD for example.

The thing is making Lava Charm less rare was supposed to ease up with the Lava Warders grind but adding Obsidian rose to the mix just made it worse than before.

And no its not a bug Imps dont have a 100% chance to spawn. So from time to time you may not see one for quite long similar situation like with sharks or chaos elementals.
 

Lythael

Terrarian
If you read carefully you would see that I was farming imps while fishing.

Ah sorry i misread
EDIT:
Then again you did write that sentence in a way that looks like you were fishing for Obsidian Rose and farming Imps at same time.
So you can see why i easily misread that.
 
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