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Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

De'N'Ch

Terrarian
Well, bestiary for now is very good source of information about mobs and NPC's, that's cool, but can you make extention for biomes and events?
I think that would be great, because it makes clear who and when spawns, also what can be dropped from mobs during events.
Thanks for update btw, it's awesome!
 

rotyler

Golem
Finished a couple runs now, not liking the meteorite changes.

My main points / problems:

Why are gold/platinum picks 'required' to mine meteorite if you can't get one until after you've killed EoW / BoC ? most players should have the evil pick at that point.
I like the change where meteorites can't be blown up with bombs anymore, the requirement of the pick & having to mine it while being attacked should be enough to make meteorite difficult enough to obtain where they used to be in the progression.

From what I have read, it seems like the main reason you've changed the boosted spawn rate to the boss is so it can be boosted an infinite amount of times (only so many orbs in a world). This is a good idea. However, completely disabling spawns from the orbs seems too harsh. It pushes meteor gear / armor later in the progression, and I haven't seen it used as much as a result.

My suggestions (always fair to offer a solution to your problem):

Let Meteorites spawn before beating the boss
Perhaps have a smaller boost on the orbs (15-20%) in addition the boss boost so the boss is still a better idea if you are trying to farm meteorites
Meteor armor felt fine where it was in the game progression. If you chose to move it because you felt it was too powerful, perhaps a slight nerf to the meteor armor's defense / space gun damage would work.

(or) Keep meteorites after the boss
Make a meteorite guaranteed to spawn the first time you beat the boss
remove the pick% requirement, since the boss is the new requirement and that boss would give you (the materials for) a pickaxe anyway.
Give the armor / space gun a slight buff. perhaps the armor set bonus also increases the space gun's piercing abilities.
 
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Bird up

Terrarian
Are angry dandelions supposed to be doing roughly 150 damage on master mode...? cuz that's how much damage they're doing - even prehardmode.
 
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rotyler

Golem
Well, bestiary for now is very good source of information about mobs and NPC's, that's cool, but can you make extention for biomes and events?
I think that would be great, because it makes clear who and when spawns, also what can be dropped from mobs during events.
Thanks for update btw, it's awesome!
wait, are you talking about souls of light / biome keys? because besides that almost all of what you are describing is in the bestiary already, unless you meant something else.
 

De'N'Ch

Terrarian
wait, are you talking about souls of light / biome keys? because besides that almost all of what you are describing is in the bestiary already, unless you meant something else.
Well, I had a funny case in the beginning from which this idea came about.

At the beginning of the game, I was in a cave somewhere on the border of the surface / underground when the windy days began (I understand this only when I returned to the surface in WD, I killed several new mobs and learned from the bestiary that they appear only in WD ), so I tried to find some minibiom with gnomes for several days :D

I think more about a brief description of a biome / event, mobs that can occur (killed one - opened an entry in the event about it) and special event drops (well, I was thinking about bloody tears for a blood moon, but I just checked that it’s a drop from certain mobs, so most likely it’s only useful for what you talked about)
It would also be nice to inform people about updates in bestiary (for example, in chat)
 

Flubman

Terrarian
Finished a couple runs now, not liking the meteorite changes.

My main points / problems:

Why can gold/platinum picks still mine meteorite if you can't get one until after you've killed EoW / BoC ? most players will have the evil pick at that point.
If you keep the change where meteorites can't be blown up with bombs anymore, the requirement of the pick should be enough to make meteorite difficult enough to obtain where they used to be in the progression.

From what I have read, it seems like the main reason you've changed the boosted spawn rate to the boss is so it can be boosted an infinite amount of times (only so many orbs in a world). This is a good idea. However, completely disabling spawns from the orbs seems too harsh. It pushes meteor gear / armor later in the progression, and I haven't seen it used as much as a result.

My suggestions (always fair to offer a solution to your problem):

Let Meteorites spawn before beating the boss
Perhaps have a smaller boost on the orbs (15-20%) in addition the boss boost so the boss is still a better idea if you are trying to farm meteorites
Meteor armor felt fine where it was in the game progression. If you chose you move it because you felt it was too powerful, perhaps a slight nerf to the meteor armor's defense / space gun damage would work.

(or) Keep meteorites after the boss
Make a meteorite guaranteed to spawn the first time you beat the boss
remove the pick% requirement, since the boss is the new requirement and that boss would give you (the materials for) a pickaxe anyway.
Give the armor / space gun a slight buff. perhaps the armor set bonus also increase the space gun's piercing abilities.
Yeah, I think both of your solutions are good.
 

Coolqwerts

Skeletron Prime
I feel like the confused debuff should be deleted all together and all items that previously inflicted or had a chance to inflict the debuff get changed to either deal more damage or give a damage boost. Let's say The Worm Scarf gave -17% damage taken. The Brain if Confusion maybe could be +20% increased damage.
Edit: I think no items should inflict the debuff. Enemies who inflict it can stay.
 

Flubman

Terrarian
I feel like the confused debuff should be deleted all together and all items that previously inflicted or had a chance to inflict the debuff get changed to either deal more damage or give a damage boost. Let's say The Worm Scarf gave -17% damage taken. The Brain if Confusion maybe could be +20% increased damage.
+20% increased damage would be insanely high.
 

Coolqwerts

Skeletron Prime
+20% increased damage would be insanely high.
Its around the same as 17% reduced damage maybe instead it would be making debuffs from enemies 20% less effective i.e cursed inferno from either the twins or Clingers would have 4/5ths of the duration or 4/5ths of the damage and the ichor debuff from Ichor Stickers would have a 20% shorter duration or 20% less defense is lost from 20 defense lost down to 16 defense lost.
 

Hexicube

Terrarian
Minor QoL request: Could smart cursor with walls replace natural wall tiles? Right now trying to make a room into the floor or a hill means manually quick-replacing background walls with no smart cursor.
 

Ruin

Spazmatism
If it wasn't clear in my last big post, I want to clarify a bit @Leinfors ;

- I understand fully that this thread was intended for "stat based" balance changes revolving around equipment. I only posted here because it's a direct route to the eyes of the dev team and I don't believe it belongs anywhere else (the suggestions section would be flooded if everyone posted there, eh?). I honestly think most people posting here understand this.

- I also understand that you don't have the ability (nor time, theoretically) to implement the non-stat suggestions that many of us have here. Those of use with suggestions of this type are doing so, as I mentioned before, so that at least someone on the dev team knows about them. We hope that you might spread these thoughts to the rest of the team.

So, all of that aside, I want to reiterate that I'm grateful for you taking the time to read the thread and reply to people. Hopefully some of the more common (relatively simple) suggestions that people have had here (Happiness, Summoner, Meteorites, etc.) will at least be entertained by the rest of the team.

Thanks again.
 
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Halocaster

Official Terrarian
Hey Leinfors! The update and balance changes is so amazing! I am enjoying the game :> Nice job!

I just want the Nightglow to be changed.
I feel like the Nightglow eats mana too much.

The Nightglow costs 26 mana which is a LOT. Yeah, I know that the Nightglow is pretty strong and making it consume 26 mana per shot is intentionally implemented to make it not too strong, but 26 mana is a really big number for me (and for some mages as well). 19-22 is a reasonable number. 26 is just too much :<

The projectiles of the Nightglow on the other hand, if there are no monsters nearby, disappears quickly, which wastes big mana. You know the new mechanic of the Medusa Head right? It only consumes mana when there are monsters nearby. If the same mechanic is added to the Nightglow, it would make a big change.

I don't know what to say about Nightglow's damage though. It is pretty strong. I feel like it needs a small buff...?

That's all :> Thanks for making the update :}
(sorry for the grammatical errors/mistakes)
 

Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
What weapon do you compare Nightglow to?

A mana reduction AND a damage increase in tandem is a pretty significant buff, so I'm curious what your basis for comparison is? I balance it against several other equivalent items, and I tried to make them all have their own niche, but I'm interested in feedback compared to other equipment. I'd note that part of Nightglow's balancing is that it has piercing and homing (multi-target potential), but its multi-target potential is not as high as Razorblade Typhoon, while simultaneously offering a good bit higher damage. I tried to keep it having a LOWER single-target DPS compared to the newly buffed Nebula Blaze.

Group DPS -> Middle Ground <- Single Target DPS
Razorblade -> Nightglow <- Nebula Blaze

If that makes sense?

Medusa Head not firing when enemies are nearby only works because its instant hit. I think if Nightglow didn't fire when people wanted it to, it would be confusing, they aren't the same type of weapon.
 

JamesDNaux

Terrarian
I know this is far beyond the scope of what you're assigned for, but as Ruin said above, just trying to get the idea across to the dev team as a whole in the best way possible.

I find it a bit odd that with throwing folded into ranged, summoners weren't also folded into the mage class. Summoning always felt like a secondary kind of thing since all you do is let minions run around without really doing anything, whips being summoner class instead of melee just feels like a really cheap bandage thrown over the problem. You're already using magic staves to summon things... with magic, I always thought it weird that it was its own class. I understand a large problem is the four pillars being tied to the classes and you can't just axe out the stardust pillar (conversely I imagine that's why thrower was less of a problem to get rid of since it got left behind in that regard anyway) but I still wanted to get the thought out there, even if everyone hates it.
 

MDMeaux

Steampunker
I feel that the Rolling Cactus damage needs to be reduced a lot. The amount of damage it does (especially in Master Mode) is ridiculous given how common and easy to trigger they are. Once you reach 400HP in pre hardmode (assuming you have a Horseshoe) the only other thing that deals over 400 damage and can 1 shot you are explosive traps, which in comparison are rare and very easy to avoid once you have the Grand Design. In contrast, there are hundreds of the rolling cacti in the underground desert, often there are multiple right next to each other, and it is much easier to accidentally trigger one, and the tight, enclosed nature of the underground desert makes it almost impossible to dodge them sometimes. As someone who usually plays hardcore, the idea of something so common that can so easily 1 shot me even when I have 400HP has essentially led to me avoiding the underground desert completely, which is a shame given the recent changes it was given, and I would not be surprised if others are avoiding it too given how deadly these cacti are. I think that the damage of these cacti should be reduced to allow players to actually enjoy the underground desert without it being so risky that it's not worth visiting at all.
 

Bry-ccentric

Steampunker
-Band of Starpower-
As you say, not much to say here. But its also not something I'll have an easy time getting approved. I'm interested in interesting solutions to this problem, ones that I'll have success getting approved.
One way you could do it, without adding in a single new item, would be to have the Band of Starpower be a Caverns fishing catch in all worlds post-Eater of Worlds/Brain of Cthulhu.
The other, more-polished method is moving the Band of Starpower to the Caverns' Golden Chests, spawning in place of 25% of Bands of Regeneration. This would involve replacing the Band of Starpower in the Shadow Orb with a new accessory, which I have an idea for. I know this isn't the most plausible method, but I can't let THAT stop me.
Visual Concept: An Eater of Souls' eyeball hanging from a chain. I'm working on a sprite right now.
Instead of acting after you've been hit, like the Panic Necklace, the Paranoid Pendant functions until you're hit.
•The Paranoid Pendant highlights the closest enemy on-screen with a Hunter Potion glow, increasing your Critical Strike Chance against them by 20%.
•Getting hit will close the eye, disabling the accessory for 3 seconds.
 
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Bird up

Terrarian
I feel that the Rolling Cactus damage needs to be reduced a lot. The amount of damage it does (especially in Master Mode) is ridiculous given how common and easy to trigger they are. Once you reach 400HP in pre hardmode (assuming you have a Horseshoe) the only other thing that deals over 400 damage and can 1 shot you are explosive traps, which in comparison are rare and very easy to avoid once you have the Grand Design. In contrast, there are hundreds of the rolling cacti in the underground desert, often there are multiple right next to each other, and it is much easier to accidentally trigger one, and the tight, enclosed nature of the underground desert makes it almost impossible to dodge them sometimes. As someone who usually plays hardcore, the idea of something so common that can so easily 1 shot me even when I have 400HP has essentially led to me avoiding the underground desert completely, which is a shame given the recent changes it was given, and I would not be surprised if others are avoiding it too given how deadly these cacti are. I think that the damage of these cacti should be reduced to allow players to actually enjoy the underground desert without it being so risky that it's not worth visiting at all.
I play hardcore too, and an instant game over to a cactus is a bit ridiculous. Cacti are totally cluttered in the desert underground.

While 1.4 did a lot of rebalancing, i noticed some things are quite unbalanced. Angry dandelions can appear at the beginning of the game at your spawn, and they do 150 damage, killing anyone in a single long ranged hit. God help you if you're a melee character, or you still have your copper items. It drops 1 silver when killed... on par with blue slime. Best option is to leave the game and come back, which honestly should never be the best option.
 

Genoscythe

Terrarian
I'm currently running mage and summoner on Expert mode with a buddy and I have a couple of concerns in terms of balance, progression and item acquision:

1. First off, I had incredible problems getting a lot of stuff as a summoner. One doesn't simply get started as a summoner, almost all summon staves are monster drops, the only pre-hardmode armor is requires a queen bee kill. It would be really awesome if slime staff, spider staff and some other basic-tier summoning items would be craftable, I have killed over 150 enchanted swords and still lack the dagger summoning staff, twelve dreadnautilus and nothing. At least having one staff per tier that can be crafted would be a huge boon, dreadnautilus and enchanted swords are very rare, and the spider staff is the worst summoning item I could think of, which brings me to...

2. The whips are a nice idea, but summons generally lack the speed to keep up with expert mode boss moves, especially melee-focussed summons like spiders can't hit slime queen, skeletron prime or the destroyer effectively. You'll also hit many enemies at once and really getting your summons to focus would require you to keep the whip equipped and only hit that one segment of that one enemy without attacking ads or different segments. It feels a lot more effective simply using a ranged or melee weapon while having your summons deal some damage. This can drastically change when the stardust cell and dragon become availible, but pre-stardust-level I generally feel a lot less powerful than a ranged or melee character. As soon as I had a dart rifle and a frost armor any expert-mode mechanical boss and slime queen would melt in a minute or two while my summoner (Forbidden set) dealt only about 25% of his actual damage with the summons. One thing that adds to this is the lacking availibility of summoning acessoires or items that boost summon reaction and movespeed. It's neat to have you back covered while fishing, but when the bosses come out and my performance really counts I still felt slightly underpowered, even with the summon tick adjustments. Point one comes into play a lot here, having good equipment at your disposal should not be a question of RNG only.

Edit: I forgot one litlle oversight: The Lifedrain spellwand still doesn't drain life and is underwhelming considering the mana cost. Can we please make it actually convert damage it deals into life? On expert the life regen is not even noticeable :)
 
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Halocaster

Official Terrarian
What weapon do you compare Nightglow to?

A mana reduction AND a damage increase in tandem is a pretty significant buff, so I'm curious what your basis for comparison is? I balance it against several other equivalent items, and I tried to make them all have their own niche, but I'm interested in feedback compared to other equipment. I'd note that part of Nightglow's balancing is that it has piercing and homing (multi-target potential), but its multi-target potential is not as high as Razorblade Typhoon, while simultaneously offering a good bit higher damage. I tried to keep it having a LOWER single-target DPS compared to the newly buffed Nebula Blaze.

Group DPS -> Middle Ground <- Single Target DPS
Razorblade -> Nightglow <- Nebula Blaze

If that makes sense?

Medusa Head not firing when enemies are nearby only works because its instant hit. I think if Nightglow didn't fire when people wanted it to, it would be confusing, they aren't the same type of weapon.
To be honest I compared the Nightglow to other post-Plantera magic weapons that fires homing projectiles (like the Spectre Staff and Bat Scepter). Yeah giving the Nightglow a buff would make it too powerful and it would probably outclass Nebula Blaze if it gets a buff. I just want to change the mana usage/consumption (is that the right word lmao) of the Nightglow a little bit eek.

Super thanks for responding though! :>
 
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