Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Proxiehunter

Terrarian
Speaking of that weapon, I think I can safely say during my pre-hard mode playthrough of master mode that the Finch staff is really bad.

It doesn't really fly into enemies that well often missing its target, hit it a few times, and then fly away.

It results in a very low and inconsistent DPS that doesn't do a good job at doing what it is supposed to.

But that's not all, it could also fly right behind the enemy and hit it right towards you.

I lost count the number of times that happened, which resulted in me dying more often than not.

This thing isn't a good early summon a weapon, it's a liability that hurts you more often than not.

I would suggest making it more accurate at hitting the enemy and lower the knock back a bit to prevent it from hitting enemies back towards me.

In my case I find it flying circles around an enemy instead of attacking them. Even when I use a whip to make it target them. Leather whip seems to be gated a bit too far into filling your bestiary. It was very close to easier to make the jungle whip than unlock the starting whip. Summoners need a pre-bee queen armor and the finch staff and slime staff should both be craftable so playing as a summoner isn't locked behind RNG. Right now summoner still isn't viable until T-modloader updates and I can install mods where it is a viable class.
 

Coolqwerts

Skeletron Prime
Might I ask just a quality of life change? How come vicious mushrooms can act like crimson source tiles if vile mushrooms can not act like corruption source tiles? Either make both count as a crimson and corruption source tile respectively or make neither count as a source tile at all.
 

Mystic

Terrarian
What weapon do you compare Nightglow to?

A mana reduction AND a damage increase in tandem is a pretty significant buff, so I'm curious what your basis for comparison is? I balance it against several other equivalent items, and I tried to make them all have their own niche, but I'm interested in feedback compared to other equipment. I'd note that part of Nightglow's balancing is that it has piercing and homing (multi-target potential), but its multi-target potential is not as high as Razorblade Typhoon, while simultaneously offering a good bit higher damage. I tried to keep it having a LOWER single-target DPS compared to the newly buffed Nebula Blaze.

Group DPS -> Middle Ground <- Single Target DPS
Razorblade -> Nightglow <- Nebula Blaze

If that makes sense?

Medusa Head not firing when enemies are nearby only works because its instant hit. I think if Nightglow didn't fire when people wanted it to, it would be confusing, they aren't the same type of weapon.
In that case, shouldn't Life Drain wand work like Medusa's head (not consuming mana if nothing is getting hit)? Life drain and Medusa's head are pretty similar.
 

Mille Marteaux

Empress of Light
I tried to keep it having a LOWER single-target DPS compared to the newly buffed Nebula Blaze.

Honestly I think it'd be fine if it was around or higher than Blaze just because of the fact Empress of Light is Fishron-tier, if not a little higher. The best comparison in this case would be Tsunami vs Phantasm.

Tsunami has higher alpha damage (60+ammo x5, always, guaranteed) but hits slower while Phantasm has a ramp-up mechanic that rewards you for sustained fire. However, Tsunami never really goes away because it's powerful and consistent. I never really feel the need to make Vortex weapons when I'm not the only person in a server doing Ranger stuff just because the options I already have compete with what you're about to get.. and considering the trouble you have to go through (which is defeating Duke Fishron before Pillar gear) it's fine.

I haven't used the revamped Nebula Blaze though yet, but I always remember always being frustrated by its Mana cost. It's a fun weapon, but 18 Mana is a lot to regenerate without crippling yourself with Mana Sickness. Since that's down I might make my next playthrough be a casting-focused one and I can give you more feedback on the two weapons then, but by that point I'll be unsure of if you'll still be doing final balance pass sweeps or not.
 

Coolqwerts

Skeletron Prime
Empress of light is like only beatable with Minecarts during the day time in master mode for consistent wins(1% chance if dying) any other ways of defeating it without risk of dying?
 

Flubman

Terrarian
I would appreciate it if making artificial snow and desert biomes was easier. 1500 blocks each is way too much and takes a long time to get in the early game.
 

Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
Honestly I think it'd be fine if it was around or higher than Blaze just because of the fact Empress of Light is Fishron-tier, if not a little higher. The best comparison in this case would be Tsunami vs Phantasm.

Its not meant to do higher DPS than Blaze because Blaze is 99% single target with minimal multi-target potential, while Nightglow has multi-target DPS. If Nightglow did more multi-target AND more single-target, then Blaze would just have no reason to exist.

I haven't used the revamped Nebula Blaze though yet, but I always remember always being frustrated by its Mana cost. It's a fun weapon, but 18 Mana is a lot to regenerate without crippling yourself with Mana Sickness. Since that's down I might make my next playthrough be a casting-focused one and I can give you more feedback on the two weapons then, but by that point I'll be unsure of if you'll still be doing final balance pass sweeps or not.

I'd give it a shot, its mana cost was dropped substantially, and its fire rate increased somewhat as well. Though fire rate increases do consume more mana naturally, the total DPS is up and the total mana consumption per second should be down.



In that case, shouldn't Life Drain wand work like Medusa's head (not consuming mana if nothing is getting hit)? Life drain and Medusa's head are pretty similar.

That's something we can potentially look into!
 

Coolqwerts

Skeletron Prime
Its not meant to do higher DPS than Blaze because Blaze is 99% single target with minimal multi-target potential, while Nightglow has multi-target DPS. If Nightglow did more multi-target AND more single-target, then Blaze would just have no reason to exist.



I'd give it a shot, its mana cost was dropped substantially, and its fire rate increased somewhat as well. Though fire rate increases do consume more mana naturally, the total DPS is up and the total mana consumption per second should be down.





That's something we can potentially look into!
make vile mushrooms a corruption source block
 

Mille Marteaux

Empress of Light
Alright, I just played around with Blaze just shooting projectiles around for like fifteen seconds with my usual loadout (Mana Regeneration Band, Mana Regeneration Potion, end of) and all I have to say is...

Dear Neptune above.

It doesn't feel miserable to use anymore if you don't have a Mana Flower, Star Statue, nor a Spike glued to you.

What a glow-up. This is bigger for me than the change to the Charged Blaster Cannon was.
 

Hexicube

Terrarian
Leinfors, not sure if you missed these or if I didn't see a response, but:


1. Could the Dryad sell seeds for the opposite evil after some gate such as defeating a mechanical boss?

This would provide a way to get most items from the other type, leaving only mimics inaccessible. Ideally there should also be dark key variants with this change, for mimic spawning, allowing access to every item on a world (barring any world-gen stuff).

I know it was mentioned that the desire was to have crimson be a harder type with better rewards, but right now you can just make a second world once you have the character geared up, rendering that point moot. Making a giant terrarium for your extra evil biome is also a lot more interesting than world-hopping. Unless server-side inventories get implemented (which would suck) there's no way to prevent world-hopping, so it may as well be implemented in a cooler fashion.


2. Is it possible to get an info accessory added to display luck?

Fishing power is similar in that it's hidden (though you can work it out if you know the multipliers).

It'd also be cool if this accessory added/removed luck and increased the possible range it could have.
 

Tyro

Steampunker
Reposting because my post seems to have gotten buried / hasn't been addressed (it's quite a few pages back).

My suggestions & endorsements of others' ideas:
*Whips should have a less annoying sound, maybe cracking every few strikes at most.
*Cactus armor should have a thorns effect and boost minions.
*Obsidian armor should boost minions.
*Pyramid loot should be obtainable from oasis crates. Not your call I know, but PLEASE send it up the ladder - I've found 4+ pharoah sets, 1 sandstorm in a bottle, and 0 magic carpets in almost five years of gameplay. If you do this please also make the pharoah set summon armor.
*Fold ice skates into flurry boots - this goes well with the dunestriders, makes them stand out less.
*Buff the shackle to +2 or +3 base defense.
*Change the magma stone to give fire resistance to the player.
*Change the diving helmet/gear to give unlimited water breathing. Neptune's Shell and its tinkers are still an upgrade as they remove the movement speed penalty. It'll still be niche, but somewhat worth farming.
*Make the fledgling wings obtainable in non journey worlds.
*Give us luck furniture, interactables, and accessories - with the fledgling wings added the lucky horseshoe is an excellent candidate.
*Make ladybug luck buff/debuff show up on buff bar, or remove it entirely.
*Make the traveling merchant sell opposite-evil orb items after you've killed the EoW/BoC.
*Rebalance ALL THE IMMUNITIES!
 

Coolqwerts

Skeletron Prime
Ya know if 1.4 wasn't the last major update I feel like 1.5 could have touched on all immunities rebalancing them beyond thematic reason more so for balance.
 

darthmorf

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
make vile mushrooms a corruption source block
You already asked for this here: Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread
Please don't post suggestions multiple times. Devs are reviewing the whole thread, so there is no need to repost them.
Reposting because my post seems to have gotten buried / hasn't been addressed (it's quite a few pages back).

My suggestions & endorsements of others' ideas:
*Whips should have a less annoying sound, maybe cracking every few strikes at most.
*Cactus armor should have a thorns effect and boost minions.
*Obsidian armor should boost minions.
*Pyramid loot should be obtainable from oasis crates. Not your call I know, but PLEASE send it up the ladder - I've found 4+ pharoah sets, 1 sandstorm in a bottle, and 0 magic carpets in almost five years of gameplay. If you do this please also make the pharoah set summon armor.
*Fold ice skates into flurry boots - this goes well with the dunestriders, makes them stand out less.
*Buff the shackle to +2 or +3 base defense.
*Change the magma stone to give fire resistance to the player.
*Change the diving helmet/gear to give unlimited water breathing. Neptune's Shell and its tinkers are still an upgrade as they remove the movement speed penalty. It'll still be niche, but somewhat worth farming.
*Make the fledgling wings obtainable in non journey worlds.
*Give us luck furniture, interactables, and accessories - with the fledgling wings added the lucky horseshoe is an excellent candidate.
*Make ladybug luck buff/debuff show up on buff bar, or remove it entirely.
*Make the traveling merchant sell opposite-evil orb items after you've killed the EoW/BoC.
*Rebalance ALL THE IMMUNITIES!
The same goes for you - you already mentioned this here: Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread. There is no risk of things getting buried - devs are reviewing the entire thread.
 

Tyro

Steampunker
You already asked for this here: Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread
Please don't post suggestions multiple times. Devs are reviewing the whole thread, so there is no need to repost them.

The same goes for you - you already mentioned this here: Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread. There is no risk of things getting buried - devs are reviewing the entire thread.
Apologies. Feel free to delete my redundant post. I've edited the original with the few changes I added to the newer one.
 

An Easter Egg

Terrarian
Could we get some sort of buff to the Meowmere minecart? It's pretty disappointing if you're playing expert mode since it's just a basic minecart in functional terms. Even just giving it equal speed would help. Maybe with some sort of bonus, like increased defense or something. Something to make it at least a sidegrade to the Mechanical minecart. Though it might have to be locked to expert in return.
 

Tyro

Steampunker
Could we get some sort of buff to the Meowmere minecart? It's pretty disappointing if you're playing expert mode since it's just a basic minecart in functional terms. Even just giving it equal speed would help. Maybe with some sort of bonus, like increased defense or something. Something to make it at least a sidegrade to the Mechanical minecart. Though it might have to be locked to expert in return.
Or a mine cart vanity slot, that would be ace
 

bageles

Terrarian
Well boy has 1.4 really given me the bang I was hoping this game was gonna go out with! Before I mention anything I just wanna personally say thank you guys at Re-Logic for making this wonderful game. Now, to bring up one of my pet peeves in this game: the summoner class and its lack of variety. I love playing summoner and amassing an army to do my bidding but there is not much uniqueness with summons. The most unique in my opinion are the Optic Staff summons, the Deadly Sphere Staff summons (mainly for their changing sprites), the Spider Staff summons, and the Stardust Dragon Staff summon alongside the Desert Tiger Staff summon (both being a single minion that gains power with more summons). Now, basically every other minion is either contact damage by flying into the enemy or shooting a projectile, and even some of the minions mentioned above do a similar thing while having their own gimmick such as allowing more summons because of a smaller minion value. And due to this a lot of the other summon weapons are easily bypassed without much trouble at all.

With the addition of whips, what I would enjoy is some slight changes to a few minions, as well as a change to the minion AI. I would like for the whips to cause minions to attack an enemy no matter what, perhaps giving the player a "buff" saying that "Your minions are fighting for you." This "buff" would make the minions follow and attack the enemy much farther than usual, perhaps another 20-ish blocks off-screen. Once this buff is cancelled, the minions would return to normal, killing enemies in close proximity to the player. Hitting a new enemy with the whip would cause the minions to change targets. I would love to see this giving summoner a little more control over its minions and a way to keep out of the danger zone mostly.

Now, to address some of my issues with the lack of variety. If this is not possible, I understand, but seeing some more unique mechanics with minions would be nice and add the "oomph" to the summoner in my opinion. Starting with the Vampire Frog Staff and including the Sanguine Staff, I would love for these summons to steal life. The Vampire Frog Staff would be a good tradeoff for late pre-Hardmode summoners sacrificing the damage of the Imp Staff for the healing of the frogs. This would only be a small amount of healing, perhaps 50% of the Vampire Frog Staff's damage, but the Sanguine Staff would follow the same mechanic, about 50% of its damage would heal the summoner. Seeing as these minions both come from the Blood Moon, it would make sense to have them use some kind of healing mechanic, and they are not necessarily easy to obtain from my experience with the low drop chance combined with the waiting on a Blood moon and waiting to fish up the correct enemy. They just seem locked behind so many conditions without a solid case to obtain them. This would make a divide between the summoner, a "mini-class" system for healing or damage just like damage or defense warrior or the ranger's three weapon types. Magic also has massive weapon variety and it has many unique mechanics. This healing would also only heal the summoner in order to prevent conflict with the Spectre Armor's mechanic being unique.

One more thing, seeing as the Blade Staff is a bit redundant though I do love its mechanic. Perhaps giving that mechanic to the Deadly Sphere Staff while also lowering the Deadly Sphere Staff's damage to balance it? I just feel like such a good mechanic can be easily overlooked due to it having only one item using it. Thank you for taking the time to read my suggestion and I once again thank you for such a great journey all the way to the end!
 

White_Shadow

Eye of Cthulhu
the Sanguine Staff would follow the same mechanic, about 50% of its damage would heal the summoner.

50% is too much since the Sanguine Staff has high damage. Maybe 25% would be better. I like your other suggestions though, they are good ideas
 
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