Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Derpinator-9000

The Destroyer
Probably because Everyone thinks that now that there are whips, it's viable to go pure summoner, when it isn't. The summoner class is plenty strong but not if you limit your options so much. Minions are extra dps on top of whatever main weapon you're using and whips are best used every once in a while to boost your minions.
I think the whole point of adding whips though was to give Summoners a viable Sidearm to use alongside minions that is boosted by summoner stats instead of them just relying on guns or swords. Buffing whips could fix this and make pure summoner viable.
 

RaiokuMoonscar

Terrarian
The fact that the Avenger Emblem builds into an item for each of the main classes except for Summoner is saddening. Again this isn't a new item suggestion post, but still.. ;(
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
The fact that the Avenger Emblem builds into an item for each of the main classes except for Summoner is saddening. Again this isn't a new item suggestion post, but still.. ;(
summoner's already have the papyrus scarab that's basically what is supposed to be their version... it involes an item that is basicly a summoner emblem.
 

RaiokuMoonscar

Terrarian
summoner's already have the papyrus scarab that's basically what is supposed to be their version... it involes an item that is basicly a summoner emblem.

This is fair, hmmm guess I just wanna see the pygmy necklace have better use like an auto swing buff or upgrade to it, somethin small but worth.

Zero expectations though, mods are a thing soon enough again ^^
 

Chassie

Terrarian
Could we possibly get a buff to the turtle armor/chlorophyte armor? I understand that you have to defeat the mech bosses multiple times to get enough hallowed bars for a full armor set, but to even mine chlorophyte you need to beat all the mech bosses and mine for it. The mining isn't hard work; and the turtle shells aren't super bad to get, but turtle isn't even a sidegrade. With turtle you only get around 10 more defense than hallowed melee; but you don't gain the attack speed buff of hallowed nor the ridiculous shadow dodge. The passive 15% dmg reduction is decent but shadow dodge just does way better; and the thorns ability really doesn't matter because the amount of damage you can deal out in that part of the game is way more than what thorns would do.
 

JohannSimm

Retinazer
Since the Bestiary requires researching both Corruption and Crimson enemies, and the only way to complete it is by introducing an artificial evil biome, the one-evil-biome per world exclusivity should be loosened. One step has been taken – the Dryad will now sell seeds of the opposite evil biome while in a graveyard – but only in Hardmode. This means, when limiting your character to a single world, you can't fight the boss (EoS/BoC) of the opposite biome until Hardmode – by which point they cease to be a challenge. Now that the game provides a large incentive to introducing the opposite evil biome (you can't complete the Bestiary without it), all the methods should be available within a single world, for those who don't want to use more than one world.

I have several suggestions:
– Have the Dryad sell opposite evil biome seeds pre-Hardmode
– Give the Dryad a means of selling powder of the opposite evil biome (pre-Hardmode)
– Give Steampunker a means of selling the opposite evil biome solution (such as changing it so that Blood Moon is the regular version and Solar Eclipse is the opposite).
– In Hardmode, when smashing an altar, if it would spread the Corruption/Crimson, give it a 33% chance of spreading the opposite evil biome instead. OR
– (Crazy suggestion) Have the swath of Corruption/Crimson generated at the beginning of Hardmode be opposite to the biome the world generated with. Smashing altars would still spread the starting world biome. (Could be option chosen at world creation?)
 

micmou

Terrarian
Another thing that I would like to see is maybe some way of toggling the rain on and off simmilar to a sun dial maybe give the effect to that new guitar the Rain Song "This suggestion brought to you by the shrimpy truffle gang"
 

JohannSimm

Retinazer
For some reason, two Hardmode plant-type enemies, the Angry Trapper and Clinger, do not have 100% knockback immunity – whereas each other plant enemy does (including all pre-hardmode plant enemies). It seems strange to me that the more powerful, Hardmode versions of these enemies should be weaker in this regard. I propose that these two enemies receive 100% knockback immunity to match all other plant-type enemies.
 

JamesDNaux

Terrarian
Going off of the evil biome suggestion above, honestly, just give us the option to spawn both in a world, it's clearly possible with that easter egg seed. Make it so you select one as the primary and one as the secondary so the world knows what EoC should drop and which one to spread for hardmode. And while I'm shooting suggestions far out of the range of this thread, for the love of god please finally add corrupt/crimson/hallowed variants for the jungle, they don't even need unique enemies, just have the blocks for the sake of conservation..
 

BlueCorvid

Terrarian
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Flower/Fairy Boots, again: The Fairy Boots suffer from the same issue as the Hellfire Treads: "Why cut myself off from the Terraspark Boots when I can just equip the Flower Boots in a Vanity slot?" Except that the Flower Boots don't function in the Vanity Slot this time, so the Flower/Fairy Boots are required to be equipped over another accessory in order to even be used. Neither the Hellfire Treads nor the Fairy Boots should logically exist, as their design encourages you to waste useful items on a tiny little visual effect. My solution:
• Allow the Flower Boots to produce flowers even while in the Vanity Slot. As mentioned, they do nothing in the Vanity slot despite being confirmed as a Vanity accessory.
• Allow the Flower Boots' flowers to continue producing critters, but only when no players in the world have them equipped in any Accessory or Vanity slot, so as to prevent easy bait farming. Perhaps add a small delay before flowers begin to grow from the boots as a preventative measure.
• The Fairy Boots, again, should be removed.

I cannot disagree with this enough. While you might be right that there's no real reason to have these over Terraspark Boots, you make the mistake of thinking that a player can only ever have one of those things. These are fun things to do with extra boots. Keeping them in hurts absolutely nothing -- even if you didn't know about Terraspark Boots and made one of them and then regret it, you can always get more components for them. The Spectre Boots only require the buyable Rocket Boots and one of the four variations of Hermes Boots.

My main problem with boots before this update was having to constantly remember to stop and swap them around when I found myself needing extra functionality -- the Fairy Boots are lovely convenience items, and I was really excited to make them. Creating permanent flowers is more than a vanity function, so I can understand why they don't work in vanity slots. I still swap them around, but being able to run while wearing them alleviates a huge source of frustration for me personally.

I can't speak to Flame Wakers yet, as I haven't gotten a pair. I can see what you mean about just putting them in a vanity slot and making Terraspark boots. So perhaps they need a little more functionality -- maybe a Magma Stone could be added to the recipe for the Hellfire Treads, to either incorporate its functionality or upgrade the vanity fire effect to a real one. (Maybe lighting enemies that touch you on fire? That's new functionality, I know, which is probably outside the scope of this thread.)


Going off of the evil biome suggestion above, honestly, just give us the option to spawn both in a world, it's clearly possible with that easter egg seed. Make it so you select one as the primary and one as the secondary so the world knows what EoC should drop and which one to spread for hardmode. And while I'm shooting suggestions far out of the range of this thread, for the love of god please finally add corrupt/crimson/hallowed variants for the jungle, they don't even need unique enemies, just have the blocks for the sake of conservation..
While, as you said, shooting suggestions far out of the range of this thread... I've always thought it would be neat to have (or perhaps just have a chance for) the opposite evil to the one the world started with spawn in the hardmode transformation. (Imagine starting in a Corrupt world and starting hardmode and having the rotted Corruption suddenly bursting into bloody, Crimson life... or vice versa, the living fleshy Crimson withering into Corruption. Delightfully gross either way. X3 I don't ever expect anything like this to be implemented, but I always wanted to try a playthrough this way, using an editor to change the default world evil after the world had been generated.)
 
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Bry

Steampunker
I cannot disagree with this enough. While you might be right that there's no real reason to have these over Terraspark Boots, you make the mistake of thinking that a player can only ever have one of those things. These are fun things to do with extra boots. Keeping them in hurts absolutely nothing -- even if you didn't know about Terraspark Boots and made one of them and then regret it, you can always get more components for them. The Spectre Boots only require the buyable Rocket Boots and one of the four variations of Hermes Boots.

My main problem with boots before this update was having to constantly remember to stop and swap them around when I found myself needing extra functionality -- the Fairy Boots are lovely convenience items, and I was really excited to make them. Creating permanent flowers is more than a vanity function, so I can understand why they don't work in vanity slots. I still swap them around, but being able to run while wearing them alleviates a huge source of frustration for me personally.

I can't speak to Flame Wakers yet, as I haven't gotten a pair. I can see what you mean about just putting them in a vanity slot and making Terraspark boots. So perhaps they need a little more functionality -- maybe a Magma Stone could be added to the recipe for the Hellfire Treads, to either incorporate its functionality or upgrade the vanity fire effect to a real one. (Maybe lighting enemies that touch you on fire? That's new functionality, I know, which is probably outside the scope of this thread.)
Yeah, the cost thing is definitely a lot less of a problem with the Fairy Boots; it’s more of a Hellfire Treads problem (you basically have to fish for the Water Walking Boots and Lava Charm in most worlds, they’re so uncommon in their chests, and that can be its OWN issue if you’re unlucky enough). I haven’t used Flower Boots much in the past two years, but I typically just swap out another non-Running Boots accessory for the Flower Boots when I need them. That basically just does what you claim the Fairy Boots are made for, except that I sacrificed the Mechanical Glove‘s melee bonuses for a few moments, during a moment of calm, to grow some flowers. Now, if a player doesn’t HAVE any running boots equipped in the first place, then, yeah, I can see the Fairy Boots’ use, but I feel like we’d be a little more hard-pressed to find somebody who doesn’t wear Frostspark or Terraspark now.

I’ll revise the Fairy Boots section, but I don’t think my overall stance on it changes much. They need some extra functionality (some simple added convenience would be plenty enough); otherwise, there’s not really much of a point to them.
[EDIT] Nnneeevermind, my stance very much did change: any new added convenience would be pointlessly overstuffing the boots. Making them a more “permanent” equip via adding actual functionality may be an option; you’d just have to take them off to destroy flowers for critters.

As for the Flame Wakers, I would honestly be fine with keeping them as vanity if the Hellfire Treads didn’t exist. I don’t think that the Flame Wakers really NEED to be any more than Vanity; it’s just that this awkward tinker kind of showed up to the party thinking they already were. Being honest with you, I don’t think Relogic would consider removing the Treads, but I also highly doubt they’ll make the Flame Wakers offensive. Terraspark happened, though, so my perception of Red’s logic is really confused right now.
 
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NumericPrime

Terrarian
It is a little odd that in an update wich was ment to balance the gabe a weapon was addded that just made melees get the highest damage. This shoun't be because melee weapons don't use ammo or mana and you have the highest damage an hp regen. They were supposed to have the worst damage as a tradeoff.
 

Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
It is a little odd that in an update wich was ment to balance the gabe a weapon was addded that just made melees get the highest damage. This shoun't be because melee weapons don't use ammo or mana and you have the highest damage an hp regen. They were supposed to have the worst damage as a tradeoff.

No, they weren't. The tradeoff with melee has always been that you have to get close to your opponent. That's why they have armor with high defense: they are going to get hit more.

Also, the Zenith can only be gained after you've completed the game. So it's not like that "highest damage" is all that important at the point when you've proven that you can beat everything in the game.
 

Reikiro

Terrarian
One small qol thing to add: a notification on each item in crafting menu if it's been researched or not. Like all other items in inventory has "Research 1 more to unlock duplication". Otherwise you have to craft it to see if it's been researched and memorize each item.
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Wolfen CQ

Skeletron
Hey! Long time fan of the game and I just created an account to post on this thread as something has been bothering me for quite a while.

My usual class of choice in prehardmode is the mage and one of the best early game accessories for mages is the Band of Starpower as it can be combined with the Band of Regeneration and further on with the Shackle to create the Magic Cuffs, for an extremely useful accessory for mages though out the whole game. My complaint comes with the fact that it's impossible to get the Band of Starpower on a world with Crimson as its world evil.

A way most people get around this is by either creating a seperate Corruption world to get a Band of Starpower or by creating an artificial Corruption in their Crimson world and fish for the Band, and while both options are ok, they both require going into a seperate world, something I (and a lot of other people) don't like doing in a playthough.

The Band of Starpower doesn't have a Crimson counterpart, the closest thing it has is the Band of Regeneration which isn't a Crimson item, but what if it was?

My full proposal is that the Band of Starpower should still be a Shadow Orb item with the Band of Regeneration becoming a Crimson Heart item (or at least an item you can get from the Crimson) with the opposite band to the one your world evil provides being able to be found underground where the Band of Regeneration is now. (If your world is Corruption, the Band of Regen will be underground whereas if your world is Crimson, the Band of Starpower will be underground). This way, it'd be possible to get the Magic Cuffs on both kinds of worlds natively.

Thank you for reading my suggestion, love the work you've put in! (especially the new Magic Missle, Flamelash and Rainbow rods, they've become must haves for all playthoughs for me now!)
 

Dungeonbubble

Skeletron
My usual class of choice in prehardmode is the mage and one of the best early game accessories for mages is the Band of Starpower as it can be combined with the Band of Regeneration and further on with the Shackle to create the Magic Cuffs, for an extremely useful accessory for mages though out the whole game. My complaint comes with the fact that it's impossible to get the Band of Starpower on a world with Crimson as its world evil.

A way most people get around this is by either creating a seperate Corruption world to get a Band of Starpower or by creating an artificial Corruption in their Crimson world and fish for the Band, and while both options are ok, they both require going into a seperate world, something I (and a lot of other people) don't like doing in a playthough.

The Band of Starpower doesn't have a Crimson counterpart, the closest thing it has is the Band of Regeneration which isn't a Crimson item, but what if it was?

My full proposal is that the Band of Starpower should still be a Shadow Orb item with the Band of Regeneration becoming a Crimson Heart item (or at least an item you can get from the Crimson) with the opposite band to the one your world evil provides being able to be found underground where the Band of Regeneration is now. (If your world is Corruption, the Band of Regen will be underground whereas if your world is Crimson, the Band of Starpower will be underground). This way, it'd be possible to get the Magic Cuffs on both kinds of worlds natively.
I personally like never use the Band of Starpower in my mage playthroughs, even its upgrades. I actually don't use any mage accessories except the Mana Flower.
I've actually noticed that Corruption is more suited for mages and the Crimson for melee. In the Corruption you can get the band of starpower and the putrid scent, which can be combined with the Mana Flower to upgrade the accessory, while in the Crimson you can get the panic necklace which mostly benefits melee players. Crimson Mimics also drop the Flesh Knuckles which can be combined with the Power Glove to make the Berserker's Glove: a powerful melee accessory.
So sorry if you like the crimson but you also use the Band of Starpower. But who knows, maybe they'll balance the evils out a little more.
 

Bry

Steampunker
My full proposal is that the Band of Starpower should still be a Shadow Orb item with the Band of Regeneration becoming a Crimson Heart item (or at least an item you can get from the Crimson) with the opposite band to the one your world evil provides being able to be found underground where the Band of Regeneration is now. (If your world is Corruption, the Band of Regen will be underground whereas if your world is Crimson, the Band of Starpower will be underground). This way, it'd be possible to get the Magic Cuffs on both kinds of worlds natively.
Wow, that is a much more intelligent solution than whatever I could have mustered. The Panic Necklace remains unaddressed, but I think your solution is the best one I've seen yet.
 
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