• For issues you find with the Switch and Console releases, please follow this link and give as much detail as possible. This is the speediest way to get info to Pipeworks and get a hotfix in the works.
  • 1.4 will bring many changes to the PC version. We strongly advise making plans to back up your worlds and players prior to updating your game. More details here.
  • Begin your search for Journey's End information here and here. Please report bugs and issues for Journey's End here.
  • For issues you find with the Mobile 1.3 update, please follow this link and give as much detail as possible. This is the speediest way to get info to DR Studios to look at your issue. Also, some troubleshooting hints here.

Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
Anything you can fish up is renewable by definition
By a definition that requires you to play a boring, repetitive slot machine. I have a hard time considering that to be a particularly good "definition". Yes, technically you can get anything, but there's something seriously wrong with a piece of gameplay if the best, or only, strategy for playing the game is to play slots for several hours.

Pushing your way into areas that are difficult for your current equipment is exactly how you get new equipment that's well ahead of where you are.
In game design, repeatedly killing a player by forcing them to confront obstacles that their characters seem clearly out-matched by is how you communicate to the player "you shouldn't be here; go elsewhere until you can survive". That's how a pseudo-sandbox game tells you when you're in a place you shouldn't be.

This is what makes the Underground Desert contradictory. It is difficult, but the "new equipment" you get there for the most part is not "well ahead of where you are". By the time the area is difficult-but-survivable, you've outgrown the equipment there.

This is not true of pretty much every other area in the game. By the time you can beat Skeletron, you're probably able to survive the dungeon. It may be hard, but it's not "kill you every 20 seconds" hard. And the loot you find there will carry you through the Jungle and much of the Underworld. Something similar is true of the Jungle, just for different builds, classes, and playstyles.

I like the idea of the Underground Desert; it's kind of a pre-EoW/BoC Dungeon. But there's just too much of it, and not enough good within it. Buff some of its stuff, reduce the number of larva and rolling cactii, and it'd be fine.
 

draeken

Terrarian
I have not tried master mode, but on all difficulties below the PHM underground desert is fun . Imo as long as the rewards get a small buff it is a nice place. As things are now, though, items there are not the best in terms of power/effort spent, so it is not a good place for gearing up.

Imo the underground desert is one of the biomes with highest potential. Gear needs a buff to be viable, but threats are original and relevant, and misc items like scarabs, digtool yada yada are interesting at any point. As soon as the next patch is out, it will be one of my favorite biomes.

Btw, musket needs a small nerf. It is stonger than all other purple/red ball items. While corrupt items are generally a bit weaker than fossil spears and amazon, the musket has nearly the same dps, and better range accuracy etc.

Btw, Toxophilite, please, stop expressing contempt with your messages.
 
Last edited:

Mental Mouse

Terrarian
This one is less balance and more QoL, but for some other things I think they should be acquirable via fishing crates. Specifically items like Living Wands and Honey Dispenser that spawn in limited chest amounts in the world and may not spawn at all depending on your (un)luck, like me getting two Finch Staves and no wands from my own living trees. I can see same happening to someone with Mahogany Wands or Honey Dispenser. Those special crafting station/tools that are only used for building shouldn't be as unique as they are now. And in regards to Finch Staves, those, along with any other potetntially exclusive Living Tree loot should probably be fishable too, just like contents of surface chests.
For this, I'll repeat my suggestion from elsewhere: The furniture crafting stations should be able to reproduce themselves, and/or the Ancient Manipulator should be able to make any of them. In both cases, a basic cost of 25 of the suitable blocks should do (for the Sky Mill, players can mine the Floating Island cabins if needed).

ETA: I'll agree that the wood and leaf wands should be more reliably available, but with crates there's a placement issue -- the Mahogany wands would obviously be in Jungle Crates, but there's no specific Forest crate. Perhaps they should be craftable at the Living Loom?

ETA2: Adding back another QOL suggestion which got merged while I was editing this message the last time (and consequently lost): Thrown powder, thrown water, and Solutions should be craftable with blocks. They should be able to convert slightly fewer blocks than when used normally, but that would still let us rehabilitate or repurpose our stocks of mined blocks more easily.

And a comment on that: On a suggestion thread, the PTB here should actually prefer someone posting separate suggestions in separate comments.
 
Last edited:

Nekohime

Terrarian
I have a few progression complaints on the quivers and scopes.

**Quivers**
Quiver + Magma Stone > Molten Quiver
Quiver + Putrid Scent > Stalker Quiver

The problem here is that the items don't build off one another like the scopes. And the stalker quiver is far better.

**Scopes**
Rifle Scope + Destroyer Emblem > Sniper Scope + > Recon Scope

The problem here is a single case. The Stake Launcher. It receives bonus from both quivers and scopes? Yeah thats 50% damage increase with all quivers, sniper scope, and recon scope equiped. Which is too op for my standards. Should be one or the other. (Probably quivers as they're treated as arrows for the purpose of Shroomite helmets) Wasn't that bad when it was just the Quiver and Sniper Scope (20% damage boost) but with the 50% damage boost its a bit too much.
 

Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
Quiver + Magma Stone > Molten Quiver
Quiver + Putrid Scent > Stalker Quiver
The Magma Stone has no effect on arrows; it only affects melee weapons. The Molten Quiver affects wooden arrows, giving them a slight damage buff in addition to the 10% damage buff from the quiver. Also, Magic Quiver + Magma Stone takes up 2 accessory slots, rather than the 1 slot from the Molten Quiver. And by Hardmode, accessory slots are in short supply.

Also, note that the different types of Quivers stack. So if you really were willing to use 2 accessory slots, Magic Quiver + Molten Quiver would be better overall.

When it comes to Putrid Scent, I would say that the 20% damage increase from combining Magic Quiver and Stalker Quiver is better than the 15% damage increase/5% critical increase from Magic Quiver + Putrid Scent.
 

Mental Mouse

Terrarian
The problem here is a single case. The Stake Launcher. It receives bonus from both quivers and scopes? Yeah thats 50% damage increase with all quivers, sniper scope, and recon scope equiped. Which is too op for my standards. Should be one or the other. (Probably quivers as they're treated as arrows for the purpose of Shroomite helmets) Wasn't that bad when it was just the Quiver and Sniper Scope (20% damage boost) but with the 50% damage boost its a bit too much.
I dunno, if you're willing to sink five accessory slots into it....
 
The problem here is a single case. The Stake Launcher. It receives bonus from both quivers and scopes? Yeah thats 50% damage increase with all quivers, sniper scope, and recon scope equiped. Which is too op for my standards. Should be one or the other. (Probably quivers as they're treated as arrows for the purpose of Shroomite helmets) Wasn't that bad when it was just the Quiver and Sniper Scope (20% damage boost) but with the 50% damage boost its a bit too much.
What about this is specific to the stake launcher? All bows will get the damage bonuses from the accessories you mentioned. The stake launcher can use the increased view range, but otherwise any bow will get the same benefits.

(Also, the damage bonus from magic quivers is multiplied in, rather than added.)
 

Wolfen CQ

Skeletron
So I've been thinking, a big problem of mass multiplayer is the fact that many people don't reach high levels of health as heart crystals are shared out so thinly.

My proposition is that heart crystals should be added to the pool of what the Traveling Merchant sells, either being sold for 30 gold, or they're only sold with a limit of 5 per visit.

I think this is an elegant solution to a big problem of the game in mass multiplayer.

Thanks for reading <3
 

a31337

Terrarian
So I've been thinking, a big problem of mass multiplayer is the fact that many people don't reach high levels of health as heart crystals are shared out so thinly.

My proposition is that heart crystals should be added to the pool of what the Traveling Merchant sells, either being sold for 30 gold, or they're only sold with a limit of 5 per visit.

I think this is an elegant solution to a big problem of the game in mass multiplayer.

Thanks for reading <3
The current implemented solution for that is fishing for golden crates. But those have a 1 in 15 chance of giving you just 1 crystal. I believe that should be reduced to 1 in 3 instead, because golden crates are rare enough as is (1/150 chance with 100 FP). I don't think buying life crystals is a good idea because it would make them far too easy to obtain.
 

Mental Mouse

Terrarian
The current implemented solution for that is fishing for golden crates. But those have a 1 in 15 chance of giving you just 1 crystal. I believe that should be reduced to 1 in 3 instead, because golden crates are rare enough as is (1/150 chance with 100 FP). I don't think buying life crystals is a good idea because it would make them far too easy to obtain.
The thing is, not everybody is playing mass multiplayer.... I'm prepping for Hardmode now, I figure I've mapped maybe 90% of my (medium) world, or 80% neglecting the surface and Underworld.

After distributing heart lanterns to various bases and arenas, plus half-a-dozen Underworld waystations, I've got (<checks>) 4 heart lanterns left, and 88 heart crystals in storage. If 1 in 3 Golden Crates had them, I figure I'd have well over a hundred.

Me, I'd like to see something else added that I can do with those things! Even being able to place them as decorative items would be an improvement -- maybe an Ecto Mist recipe to recreate the original Crystal Heart as a placeable item. Even better would be some other useful item they could be used for.
 

CrabBar

Official Terrarian
So I've been thinking, a big problem of mass multiplayer is the fact that many people don't reach high levels of health as heart crystals are shared out so thinly.

My proposition is that heart crystals should be added to the pool of what the Traveling Merchant sells, either being sold for 30 gold, or they're only sold with a limit of 5 per visit.

I think this is an elegant solution to a big problem of the game in mass multiplayer.

Thanks for reading <3
The current implemented solution for that is fishing for golden crates. But those have a 1 in 15 chance of giving you just 1 crystal. I believe that should be reduced to 1 in 3 instead, because golden crates are rare enough as is (1/150 chance with 100 FP). I don't think buying life crystals is a good idea because it would make them far too easy to obtain.
Well, actually seems like it is not a problem unique to multiplayer (even if a lot more common there). It is wildly unreliable to raise maximum health early on, since Life Crystals are the only source for it, and 2 ways to get them are rather random and rather rare.

So, maybe an alternative, less effective but more reliable way to raise max health to 400? Could be a lot of things:
  • "healthy diet"/continuous Well Fed
  • a reward for beating bosses
  • Nurse new function? Vitamines/vaccines/whatever that can be called
  • mini-version of life crystal that is guaranteed to be met in a biome (full version is waaay too much, and high chance with no guarantee is not really worth)
  • a complex potion
  • etc.
P.S.
The thing is, not everybody is playing mass multiplayer.... I'm prepping for Hardmode now, I figure I've mapped maybe 90% of my (medium) world, or 80% neglecting the surface and Underworld.

After distributing heart lanterns to various bases and arenas, plus half-a-dozen Underworld waystations, I've got (<checks>) 4 heart lanterns left, and 88 heart crystals in storage. If 1 in 3 Golden Crates had them, I figure I'd have well over a hundred.

Me, I'd like to see something else added that I can do with those things! Even being able to place them as decorative items would be an improvement -- maybe an Ecto Mist recipe to recreate the original Crystal Heart as a placeable item. Even better would be some other useful item they could be used for.
Well, Heart Lanterns crafting and being sold for 1.5 gold each is pretty solid as is, but letting Life Crystals be placeable is definitely welcome, yeah.
 

Mental Mouse

Terrarian
Well, Heart Lanterns crafting and being sold for 1.5 gold each is pretty solid as is, but letting Life Crystals be placeable is definitely welcome, yeah.
As far as selling them, I've got over 25 plat already I recently made a plat just cooking and selling critters, let alone the gem farm. It occurred to me after writing that (and looking back at my Underworld waystations) that I actually can cover the entire surface in Heart Lantern buff. Wouldn't help underground, though, and I am heading for Hardmode after I finish a few builds. Maybe I'll just do it for the Jungle and Corruption, and start hanging lanterns wherever I meet opposition underground in HM.
 

Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
It is wildly unreliable to raise maximum health early on
I've played the game with new characters and worlds several times since 1.1, and I've always managed to get maximum health. If it happens in every play through, it's "reliable".

Note also that you aren't meant to have done it "early on"; you're meant to have done it by the time you reach the Underworld.

Terraria is a game about exploration, so it expects you to explore and provides numerous rewards of various kinds for doing so. In addition to Hearts, you get ores, gems, and chests.
 

Wolfen CQ

Skeletron
Terraria is a game about exploration, so it expects you to explore and provides numerous rewards of various kinds for doing so. In addition to Hearts, you get ores, gems, and chests.
See the thing is, if you're playing with 4+ people who need 15 heart crystals each, it becomes a hassle to explore every nook and cranny of a world to get everyone to full health
 

Mental Mouse

Terrarian
See the thing is, if you're playing with 4+ people who need 15 heart crystals each, it becomes a hassle to explore every nook and cranny of a world to get everyone to full health
If you look at my numbers and count in my bases and my own health, I've more than doubled that on a medium world, exploring by myself without completing the underground. With four people exploring, you could do it much more easily (especially if you form a team so you can share maps). Let alone if you go for a large world.
 
Last edited:

Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
See the thing is, if you're playing with 4+ people who need 15 heart crystals each, it becomes a hassle to explore every nook and cranny of a world to get everyone to full health
OK, but I was replying to a specific post that was suggesting going much farther than what you were talking about. The text I quoted from started with "actually seems like it is not a problem unique to multiplayer." My point is that it is a problem specific to multiplayer.
 

CrabBar

Official Terrarian
I've played the game with new characters and worlds several times since 1.1, and I've always managed to get maximum health. If it happens in every play through, it's "reliable".

Note also that you aren't meant to have done it "early on"; you're meant to have done it by the time you reach the Underworld.

Terraria is a game about exploration, so it expects you to explore and provides numerous rewards of various kinds for doing so. In addition to Hearts, you get ores, gems, and chests.
... yeah, you are right actually. Health isn't supposed to be full early, and the exploration enforced by life crystals is pretty vital for the pre-hardmode.

I think I know why that still ended up a concern for me, actually: this part of building a character seems a bit too centric around the Life Crystals. You have several ways/choices for armor, weapons, even accessories, but only Life Crystals can raise player's HP. So, while gathering the gear goes through diverse routes, life accumulation always goes through "exploring caves for X minutes/hours"

So, why was "unreliable" part mentioned? Because caves contain wildly varying amount of Life Crystals to begin with. To be fair, new Mushroom biome layouts help immensely: they are almost guaranteed to spawn a few hearts. Other than that, one could explore underground for an hour and find 0-30 crystals. A bit too over the place for #1 vital item IMHO.

Of course that partially could be a bias based on trying to clear the game faster than intended (speedruns, challenge runs, etc.), so it does help to see other points of view.
 

Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
I think I know why that still ended up a concern for me, actually: this part of building a character seems a bit too centric around the Life Crystals. You have several ways/choices for armor, weapons, even accessories, but only Life Crystals can raise player's HP.
That's because max HP is one-dimensional: a single number that can only go up. The only variations possible are therefore the frequency by which you find things that make it go up and how much that thing makes it goes up.

Armor, weapons, and accessories are multi-dimensional. For weapons, you have damage, rate-of-fire, range, speed, knockback, and other factors. For armor, you have defense as well as arbitrary other effects that a piece of armor can provide. Accessories can do basically anything.

There's only one thing you can do pre-Hardmode to raise your max HP, because there's only one way to change max HP: make it go up. We don't need multiple items just to make a number bigger.

So, why was "unreliable" part mentioned? Because caves contain wildly varying amount of Life Crystals to begin with. To be fair, new Mushroom biome layouts help immensely: they are almost guaranteed to spawn a few hearts. Other than that, one could explore underground for an hour and find 0-30 crystals. A bit too over the place for #1 vital item IMHO.

Of course that partially could be a bias based on trying to clear the game faster than intended (speedruns, challenge runs, etc.), so it does help to see other points of view.
Things like this are part of why I say that Terraria is not a good game for speedrunning and it was never meant to be. The random nature of finding health is mitigated by the fact that you're not looking for health. You're exploring for whatever you can find, with health merely being one of a wide variety of different stuff: gems, ores, chests, biomes, etc.

The random nature of world generation is a fundamental part of Terraria; it's what makes different playthroughs provide different experiences. But it also makes speedrunning exceedingly RNG-based. This is an unavoidable consequence of the nature of using RNG to dictate play experiences so heavily.
 

Eli10293

Spazmatism
Someone's probably mentioned this, but whose idea was it to give whips such low range? For a class that's supposed to be focused on dodging, requiring players to get so close makes no sense at all. One could argue that that extra damage has to come at some risk, but summoner is already risky enough when most of its sets have such low defense to begin with. Hallowed hood is a prime example of this with a staggering one defense.
 
Top Bottom