Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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But the thing is, mobility is so much more freeform in the air with the Shield of Cthulhu and Winged Insignia being options, that the Terraspark Boots get completely outclassed. The only real function that helps you in hardmode is the Hermes Boots effect. You can use a fast mount like the Unicorn for far more effective grounded mobility, without using up an accessory slot.

Oh yeah, I definitely rock that Shield of Cthulhu all the time. Ever since my first playthrough years ago. And yeah, I've been apprehensive about trying to work in the Unicorn mount into my combat. Aside from being tricky to go from shield bash into mount for insta-full speed, your speed jumps all over the place if you run-mount/e-mount constantly to go back to air mobility.

Even if it's not the best top speed, just to be able to shield bash into a run to do whatever. A whole slot for just that ability feels a bit much by HM, but I understand the argument that having "ground superiority + air superiority" is supposed to be a powerful thing.
 
Ectoplasm/Spectre Bars was a resource that could have been really useful here, but putting one of the True Swords at HM Dungeon tier didn't separate it enough from "post-Plantera" BHS drops, IMO.

If I were to do something as dramatic as:
- True Excalibur - Spectre Bars/Ectoplasm
- True Night's Edge - Chlorophyte
- Terra Blade - Post-Golem Mothron drop

. . . I would need to have a serious conversation with Red. I think it would be a viable solution, but it would be a longshot due to the heavy restructuring. If the opportunity arises to have such a discussion, I'll try to take it.

To be honest, the most sore point there is Mothron being post-Golem to solely drop the Broken Hero Sword.
True Night's Edge fits the palette and power source of Chlorophyte (even tho a few more crafting materials for flavor could be nice, as pure chlorophyte swords pale in comparison)
True Excalibur being imbued by the souls of Ectoplasm is also quite natural transition.

At this point moving it to another source might be optimal.
Random idea: Guide gifts you the broken sword after speaking to him post X and goes with inspiring speech :p

Or... keep Broken Hero Sword itself post-Plantera and make another major requirement/material post-Golem. Sword itself waiting for its' hour to be used in crafting recipe shouldn't be a tradegy.
Even as far-stretched as Ancient Manipulator crafting could probably do, since that will guarantee the ultimate status of the Terra Blade. Although, at this point it's a bit too close to Zenith in progression.
 
If you want to take the tradeoffs of swapping your boots for Frog Legs, or depending on a mount for ground travel, fine. But that's what it is, a tradeoff. Likewise for Amphibian Boots. "You pays your money and you takes your choice". Me, I lurve my Terraspark boots.



(edited) Both of those are Expert Mode items -- I haven't even played Expert Mode yet, let alone Master. And the Soaring Insignia is also a new (1.4) Hardmode item, from a new, tough, boss. I haven't yet reached Hardmode in my new 1.4 game, largely because I've spent the last two weeks working on a big build before starting Hardmode. It may well be that the Insignia in particular changes the calculus, making it more worthwhile to just fly everywhere -- but then, you just fly everywhere, and never mind that you're slow on the ground. (And re-accustom yourself to watching out for lava....)
When do you even encounter lava in hard mode? There's no underworld/deep cavern layer loot that's useful to you at that point.
 
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To be honest, the most sore point there is Mothron being post-Golem to solely drop the Broken Hero Sword.
True Night's Edge fits the palette and power source of Chlorophyte (even tho a few more crafting materials for flavor could be nice, as pure chlorophyte swords pale in comparison)
True Excalibur being imbued by the souls of Ectoplasm is also quite natural transition.

At this point moving it to another source might be optimal.
Random idea: Guide gifts you the broken sword after speaking to him post X and goes with inspiring speech :p

Or... keep Broken Hero Sword itself post-Plantera and make another major requirement/material post-Golem. Sword itself waiting for its' hour to be used in crafting recipe shouldn't be a tradegy.
Even as far-stretched as Ancient Manipulator crafting could probably do, since that will guarantee the ultimate status of the Terra Blade. Although, at this point it's a bit too close to Zenith in progression.
The Mothron enemy itself doesn't even need to be made post-Golem. The Broken Hero Sword can just drop from it post-Golem. Mothron's other drops already work this way; they're locked behind Plantera even though the enemy appears earlier.
 
The Mothron enemy itself doesn't even need to be made post-Golem. The Broken Hero Sword can just drop from it post-Golem. Mothron's other drops already work this way; they're locked behind Plantera even though the enemy appears earlier.
Ah, yeah that's right, Mothron doesn't have to move from its' current position. I just worded the sentence in a wrong way.
What is a trouble is giving Eclipse a fourth "tier", post-Golem, with a sole difference of Mothron dropping a Broken Hero Sword. That would likely feel out of place.
 
Ah, yeah that's right, Mothron doesn't have to move from its' current position. I just worded the sentence in a wrong way.
What is a trouble is giving Eclipse a fourth "tier", post-Golem, with a sole difference of Mothron dropping a Broken Hero Sword. That would likely feel out of place.
I think it'd make the most sense if mothron and the terra blade were simply moved to the post plantera solar eclipse, that's also when players are supposed to gain access to the solar tablets.
 
When do you even encounter lava in hard mode? There's no underworld/deep cavern layer loot that's useful to you at that point.
Writing off over a quarter of the world depth is a bit hasty, don'tcha think? 😉

The second- and third-tier HM ores are down in the Caverns, including lava levels. You're not actually done with WoF for a while, and for that matter the Underworld has a few new drops, while actually being safer than many other places. And of course there's still Obsidian Skin potions, but like I said, tradeoffs.
 
When do you even encounter lava in hard mode? There's no underworld/deep cavern layer loot that's useful to you at that point.
Writing off over a quarter of the world depth is a bit hasty, don'tcha think? 😉

The second- and third-tier HM ores are down in the Caverns, including lava levels. You're not actually done with WoF for a while, and for that matter the Underworld has a few new drops, while actually being safer than many other places. And of course there's still Obsidian Skin potions, but like I said, tradeoffs.

Not to mention any time there's lava you placed as traps or to stop monster spawns. It definitely took me a bit to remember I can't touch lava anymore, ha ha.

Like I said, rather than some uber wings that do everything, it would be cool to have the different wings all have different individual effects the boots had. Would give reason to hunt each pair of wings outside of fashion or research.
 
Regarding balance:

Has anyone done Pumpkin Moon or Frost Moon to the final wave in Master mode without post-Moon Lord gear?

With Zenith and Prism, these events are obviously not meant to be played post-Moon Lord, yet without using some kind of invincibility trick, I see no way to reach and do all waves in these events pre-Moon Lord...
 
Writing off over a quarter of the world depth is a bit hasty, don'tcha think? 😉

The second- and third-tier HM ores are down in the Caverns, including lava levels. You're not actually done with WoF for a while, and for that matter the Underworld has a few new drops, while actually being safer than many other places. And of course there's still Obsidian Skin potions, but like I said, tradeoffs.
I usually just skip the 3rd tier of armor altogether as Palladium, Orichalcum, and Spider armor are more than adequate for defeating the mechs. The Underworld new drops aren't even a thing until post mech anyway, which doesn't have anything especially good there either... also, what WoF drops am I supposedly missing out on? I can just kill biome mimics and outclass almost all of the WoF drops instantly except Firecracker, but I don't even use Whips, and as a compulsive hybridizer I actually get more benefit out of an Avenger emblem than a class focused one.
Regarding balance:

Has anyone done Pumpkin Moon or Frost Moon to the final wave in Master mode without post-Moon Lord gear?

With Zenith and Prism, these events are obviously not meant to be played post-Moon Lord, yet without using some kind of invincibility trick, I see no way to reach and do all waves in these events pre-Moon Lord...
I was able to do it pre-moon lord, but I got the terraprisma as soon as possible so I might be an exception here.
 
Regarding balance:

Has anyone done Pumpkin Moon or Frost Moon to the final wave in Master mode without post-Moon Lord gear?

With Zenith and Prism, these events are obviously not meant to be played post-Moon Lord, yet without using some kind of invincibility trick, I see no way to reach and do all waves in these events pre-Moon Lord...
Multiple times with a trap arena on expert, haven't tried on master, but I'm confident I could. I'm pretty sure it's the only reliable way to do that though, lava and spear traps allow you to get rid of fodden and fasten up your progression through the event.
 
Regarding balance:

Has anyone done Pumpkin Moon or Frost Moon to the final wave in Master mode without post-Moon Lord gear?

With Zenith and Prism, these events are obviously not meant to be played post-Moon Lord, yet without using some kind of invincibility trick, I see no way to reach and do all waves in these events pre-Moon Lord...

Getting to wave 15 in Pumpkin Moon is almost as trivial as it used to be, the only difference is that you can only tank 2 Morning Wood branches/flaming scythes instead of 3.

I got to Wave 18 of Frost Moon on my literal first try on Master mode, could probably get to Wave 20 if I try hard enough and with some better gear.

That was with the average Post Golem setup. They are still two of the most linear and repetitive things in the game, plain stat ups didn't suddenly make them impossible.
 
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Well... Thanks to our Touhou boss friend the update came, at least the Melee weapons acquired from Pumpkin Moon and the Frost Moon seems extremelly underpowered compared to the Starlight. I even tried to use the North Pole to try mowing event bosses, but eventually ended up switching back to Starlight because the dps is a lot better. The Christmas Tree Sword? Pft...
I don't know if Starlight is overpowered, or if the event weapons needs buffs.

Edit:. I also forgot that the bow dropped from Duke Fishron is also outranked by the bow she drops.
 
Well... Thanks to our Touhou boss friend the update came, at least the Melee weapons acquired from Pumpkin Moon and the Frost Moon seems extremelly underpowered compared to the Starlight. I even tried to use the North Pole to try mowing event bosses, but eventually ended up switching back to Starlight because the dps is a lot better. The Christmas Tree Sword? Pft...
I don't know if Starlight is overpowered, or if the event weapons needs buffs.

Edit:. I also forgot that the bow dropped from Duke Fishron is also outranked by the bow she drops.

I mean, she is way harder than both of them. Isn't it normal that the gear she drops ends up being better? What would be the point of fighting her if it weren't?
 
Well... Thanks to our Touhou boss friend the update came, at least the Melee weapons acquired from Pumpkin Moon and the Frost Moon seems extremelly underpowered compared to the Starlight. I even tried to use the North Pole to try mowing event bosses, but eventually ended up switching back to Starlight because the dps is a lot better. The Christmas Tree Sword? Pft...
I don't know if Starlight is overpowered, or if the event weapons needs buffs.
Terraria definitely suffers from some power creep issues. There are a lot of examples that you could list, hell we've been talking about the Terra Blade for a long time now.
I mean, she is way harder than both of them. Isn't it normal that the gear she drops ends up being better? What would be the point of fighting her if it weren't?
Probably because on a technical standpoint they can be fought at the same time. Might as well ignore the event moons completely and go for EoL. If you memorize her pattern she won't be as hard, you might even be able to take her down during daytime if you're good enough.
 
Getting to wave 15 in Pumpkin Moon is almost as trivial as it used to be, the only difference is that you can only tank 2 Morning Wood branches/flaming scythes instead of 3.

I got to Wave 18 of Frost Moon on my literal first try on Master mode, could probably get to Wave 20 if I try hard enough and with some better gear.

That was with the average Post Golem setup. They are still two of the most linear and repetitive things in the game, plain stat ups didn't suddenly make them impossible.

What gear did you use for each? Or what would you recommend?

I've tried the old "stand in regen outpost and facetank/out-DPS bosses", but they hit harder now, cannons seem useless, and traps kinda slow down a lot when Pumps and Woods start zerging. Did it with Dark Artist + Flameburst + Stellar Tune flying around though, but that combo seems kinda meh, finished it barely before morning each time. Not because Tune isn't OP, I just suck at not dying while flying around, getting barraged by 2-3 Mourning Wood while I'm dodging Pumpkings.

Well... Thanks to our Touhou boss friend the update came, at least the Melee weapons acquired from Pumpkin Moon and the Frost Moon seems extremelly underpowered compared to the Starlight. I even tried to use the North Pole to try mowing event bosses, but eventually ended up switching back to Starlight because the dps is a lot better. The Christmas Tree Sword? Pft...
I don't know if Starlight is overpowered, or if the event weapons needs buffs.

Edit:. I also forgot that the bow dropped from Duke Fishron is also outranked by the bow she drops.

Did you Starlight the entire Frost Moon event? How?



******

PS: It seems way easier to Black Spot + Possessed Hatchet EoL at night to get everything aside from Terraprisma, than it is to do Moon Events IMHO.
 
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Probably because on a technical standpoint they can be fought at the same time. Might as well ignore the event moons completely and go for EoL. If you memorize her pattern she won't be as hard, you might even be able to take her down during daytime if you're good enough.
I can beat Duke Fishron as soon as I get a Stormbow. It is just as unfair to compare Moon events to EoL than it is to compare everything you can get after the mech-bosses to FIshron drops. If you're good, you can skip things.
Some players would prefer to take the slower progression route and slowly improve their gear instead of jumping in to fight EoL/Fishron.
And do anyone here thinks Fishron is much harder than EoL? Because if not, then it becomes pointless to accuse EoL of being the problem, and if Fishron IS stronger than EoL, then the latter might need a buff.
Regardless, I do think that the amount of options you have post-plantera/golem was designed so you have many ways of obtaining gear to fight the pillars, the problem here is that there is so much gear you can get, you probably won't need to do all the events/bosses, and you will just be fighting them for fun, unless you really need a slower progression, but even then, a lot of weapons are supposed to have the same strenght (Betsy loot, Fishron loot, EoL loot).
 
What's the point of doing the events, then? For one day of Halloween/Christmas?

To get better weapons to use against her? Are you implying that these bosses beat themselves? I could not beat Empress until I got a Blizzard Staff.

What gear did you use for each? Or what would you recommend?

I've tried the old "stand in regen outpost and facetank/out-DPS bosses", but they hit harder now, cannons seem useless, and traps kinda slow down a lot when Pumps and Woods start zerging. Did it with Dark Artist + Flameburst + Stellar Tune flying around though, but that combo seems kinda meh, finished it barely before morning each time. Not because Tune isn't OP, I just suck at not dying while flying around, getting barraged by 2-3 Mourning Wood while I'm dodging Pumpkings.

On pumpkin Moon, Beetle Mail + Terra Blade + Keybrand + Cross Necklace + Frozen Shield for essential gear. Frost moon was just Spectre armor + Razorblade + Heat Ray/Spectre staff, then I swapped to a Razorpine from an Everscream. Then it was just a flat surface with ground of aasphalt and a platform. Traps are a hindrance and a waste of time since they deal practically 0 damage and also restrict your movement.

I can see that the problem here is your approach. You tried Facetanking and outDPSing bosses on a difficulty where enemies have 50% more HP and Damage than on Expert mode, of course that won't work so well. Flameburst sentries are weak and inaccurate, and they are even more useless here since Flameburst Sentries can't really aim up and Pumpkings are fought almost entirely in the air. And using something with short range (Stellar Tune) as your main weapon in a event where you are spammed by projectiles isn't a very good idea.
 
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