Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Here's something a bit more on-par with this thread's scope: is there any way that the Finch Staff could be a guaranteed drop from Living Wood Chests, like the two wands are, or maybe a rare drop from fishing crates? I was excited that an early-game Summoning weapon was being added, but then my world generated two separate Living Wood Chests without it. Items that are worldgen-luck exclusive bum me out, especially really basic ones like this, because having to make multiple maps until you find that one particular item isn't something I'm interested in putting myself through. Making sure that non-Journey players have some way to get the introductory Summoning weapon in every world would be really appreciated.

(The more hopelessly optimistic part of me is yelling "Free the Slime Staff!" from the rooftops. :D)
 
I actually really the torch luck mechanic, it makes the game look way cooler and makes the Bone Merchant more interesting when you're not using yoyos. It'd be nice if the game told you regular torches were bad and biome torches were good, but you can get a Flickerwick early on in Hardmode that makes torches unnecessary anyway.
Think about this for a second: torches, probably one of the easiest things to make, as well as being really useful in any point of the game, punishes you for placing them in any biome.
Just, why? Why should you be punished for placing a torch in the wrong biome? Why would they add that? There's literally no point, and it hurts the game. This is a sandbox game for god's sake, you shouldn't deal less damage or get less drops simply because you don't like Coral Torches. They could've just left it with the positive luck, and people would actually enjoy it.
 
I'll start by saying that with the time I had available, the vast majority of my focus was dedicated to weapon and some armor review. Only a handful of accessories had time to be reviewed (most notably, a full wing rebalance). But I would love to revisit accessories at some point, and MOST of your changes might be "within the realm" of what we are talking about.
I'd just like to say that I'm looking forward to it. It's one of the things whic hare really needed - currently, for me there are only ~3 sets of wings in the game (frozen, hoverboard and endgame lunar); things like Bone Wings have no place in the game, since they become available WAY too late to be useful.

I'm looking forward to these changes!
 
I just realized that keeping a ladybug in the hot bar for the purpose of refreshing the luck buff means it takes priority as fishing bait over anything in the dedicated ammo slots, meaning that whenever I go fishing I have to manually swap them around.

Oof, not a fan of that..
 
I'd just like to say that I'm looking forward to it. It's one of the things whic hare really needed - currently, for me there are only ~3 sets of wings in the game (frozen, hoverboard and endgame lunar); things like Bone Wings have no place in the game, since they become available WAY too late to be useful.

I'm looking forward to these changes!

You know the Wing rebalance came in the initial 1.4 patch, right? :)

I just never released raw stats because Wing stats do not translate nicely to "reader friendly". I do have a tier list I can post in a bit though.
 
In retrospect, I think Torch Luck wasn't built around normal gameplay. It was built around Journey Mode, where you can literally pull any torch you want out of your pocket and slap it down at will after you've collected 100 of them. That it gimps normal X-core gameplay was (hopefully) an unintended side effect that will be rectified soon. Just removing normal torches from the penalty list would be enough, though I'm sure Loki's already made that clear to those who need to know.

Leinfors, are you permitted to offer us a sort of roadmap as to the order in which you believe things are going to be looked at? Also, please give that wing tier list to the main editors of the wiki. I'm sure they could really use it.
 
I think the luck stat implementation needs some changes. I would have few problems with the luck stat if: 1. They made it so that the mechanic doesn't hurt the game's performance (I've heard of some serious lag on the Destroyer due to constant luck checks. I've also noticed that ever since the update, the game has made my PC run hotter than it used to); 2. The torch mechanic didn't penalize you for placing the wrong torch (There are multiple reasons for this. Having a bunch of different torch types clogging your inventory is annoying. Making the most common torch type in the game actively hurt you is pretty annoying. Having the same colors on top of each other is ugly); 3. The luck-based damage modifier was removed entirely (Luck affecting something deterministic like raw damage doesn't make sense even from a thematic standpoint); 4. The ingredients for luck potions were easier to acquire (Pearls are too rare and potions not long-lasting enough to make the luck potions of much use); and 5. The game gave you a visual indication of your current luck stat (The patch has been out for days at this point, and a lot of people still haven't noticed the luck mechanic. That's a problem).

As the luck stat stands right now, it's more bad than good, but it can easily be fixed.

Edit: There was no need to quote myself.
 
It would be a neat idea to bring "EoC into relevance" as far as progression is concerned. However, when I posted my initial balance change list, the SINGLE piece of feedback that rung through loud and clear was that the Meteor/Space combination was far too powerful. And while I am not content to say that this has been fully resolved as is, I think this was the option that best fit the problem.

Interestingly, as someone who has been playing Terraria since day 1, I never, ever considered Meteor Armor to be a pre-EoW set. I don't know why it never really dawned on me. I always broke all three orbs in succession, and immediately fought EoW, with Meteor gear "coming after". I consider that an oversight on my part, and when I realized that people were deliberately breaking a single orb to begin farming meteor in preparation of EoW/BoC, that felt very off to me. For the time being, I've gotten a LOT of good feedback on this change, and while it is a drastic one, I am still confident it was a good one.

Been playing since.. week 1 or 2 I think? But.. I always saw meteorite pre-EoW since the gold pickaxe (and now platinum and tungsten) state they can mine meteorite (at least prior to 1.4, haven't checked again). I think Bone Pickaxe can mine meteorite as well, which is a much later addition. Meteorite is decent, but doesn't seem a sequence break to obtain it before EoW since the shadow orbs themselves drop items that absolutely shred EoW.. like the ball o' hurt (even moreso now after flail buff) and vile thorn. I'd definitely count these two weapons more powerful against EoW than having meteor armor or space gun.. though I think this is also a combined issue with the EoW being the easiest boss in the game. I think I went in armorless and dropped my flail down, and the boss destroyed itself, while healing me more than it hurt me (hits for 10 or less, getting constantly healed by 20). I didn't have to do anything, no armor, no effort, just a dropped flail and it was dead. Fighting it normally does even LESS damage to you.

I think limiting meteorite after EoW just takes some freedom away from the game- I mean, meteors aren't a guaranteed chance to fall at midnight anyway, and the average new player will probably break 3 orbs first anyway. Having them locked at just one orb gives more knowledgeable players another choice, something I often did. Hit one orb, wait for midnight to see if that dropped a meteor, if not, smash another orb and see.

As for bombing meteorite.. what if there could be sort of a compromise with some form of explosion resistance? Rather than a tile being completely explosion immune or not, perhaps the further out the explosion, the less explosive damage it does to tiles. I try not to make this comparison too often, but.. like in Minecraft. TNT will basically blow up all dirt in its radius, but will destroy less stone within that same radius. Using that concept, I think it could be fair for bombs and dynamite to destroy just a few tiles of meteorite. This could be combined with, or rather instead just, have bombs and dynamite weaken these tiles, setting them in a state as if they'd been hit once or twice with a pickaxe, so that mining them will be quicker.




In short.. I'd like the old requirement of one orb to possibly unlocking meteorites, but also give EoW a much needed buff. BoC seems fine, and meteorite before it should be OK, but meteorite is also sort of OK before EoW, but Ball o' Hurt and Vilethorn are definitely not before EoW. So, EoW needs some extra power. Less chance to drop hearts, higher damage, more defense, more HP.. kind of more everything (but the hearts!). One issue I have with Hardmode is everything is very.. gated. You have to do a lot of things in order. There's still a lot of choice in pre-hardmode, but I just don't like setting these limitations if there are existing bigger sequence breaks- like the very items the orbs themselves drop.

Also a wooden bow with jester or unholy arrows is even MORE effective than using the space gun, which only hits two.. or three segments per shot. EoW is basically a free hand out of shadow stuff.
 
Been playing since.. week 1 or 2 I think? But.. I always saw meteorite pre-EoW since the gold pickaxe (and now platinum and tungsten) state they can mine meteorite (at least prior to 1.4, haven't checked again). I think Bone Pickaxe can mine meteorite as well, which is a much later addition. Meteorite is decent, but doesn't seem a sequence break to obtain it before EoW since the shadow orbs themselves drop items that absolutely shred EoW.. like the ball o' hurt (even moreso now after flail buff) and vile thorn. I'd definitely count these two weapons more powerful against EoW than having meteor armor or space gun.. though I think this is also a combined issue with the EoW being the easiest boss in the game. I think I went in armorless and dropped my flail down, and the boss destroyed itself, while healing me more than it hurt me (hits for 10 or less, getting constantly healed by 20). I didn't have to do anything, no armor, no effort, just a dropped flail and it was dead. Fighting it normally does even LESS damage to you.

I think limiting meteorite after EoW just takes some freedom away from the game- I mean, meteors aren't a guaranteed chance to fall at midnight anyway, and the average new player will probably break 3 orbs first anyway. Having them locked at just one orb gives more knowledgeable players another choice, something I often did. Hit one orb, wait for midnight to see if that dropped a meteor, if not, smash another orb and see.

As for bombing meteorite.. what if there could be sort of a compromise with some form of explosion resistance? Rather than a tile being completely explosion immune or not, perhaps the further out the explosion, the less explosive damage it does to tiles. I try not to make this comparison too often, but.. like in Minecraft. TNT will basically blow up all dirt in its radius, but will destroy less stone within that same radius. Using that concept, I think it could be fair for bombs and dynamite to destroy just a few tiles of meteorite. This could be combined with, or rather instead just, have bombs and dynamite weaken these tiles, setting them in a state as if they'd been hit once or twice with a pickaxe, so that mining them will be quicker.




In short.. I'd like the old requirement of one orb to possibly unlocking meteorites, but also give EoW a much needed buff. BoC seems fine, and meteorite before it should be OK, but meteorite is also sort of OK before EoW, but Ball o' Hurt and Vilethorn are definitely not before EoW. So, EoW needs some extra power. Less chance to drop hearts, higher damage, more defense, more HP.. kind of more everything (but the hearts!). One issue I have with Hardmode is everything is very.. gated. You have to do a lot of things in order. There's still a lot of choice in pre-hardmode, but I just don't like setting these limitations if there are existing bigger sequence breaks- like the very items the orbs themselves drop.

Also a wooden bow with jester or unholy arrows is even MORE effective than using the space gun, which only hits two.. or three segments per shot. EoW is basically a free hand out of shadow stuff.
Not only that, but both EOW and BOC Both drop the ores and scales during the fight.

So even if you die, you still usually get all of the ingredients necessary to get the armor/Pickaxe.

There is no reason in normal mode to go back to beat them if you do this. The only saving grace for them is their expert mode drops that are too good to pass up.

I died to BOC on Master mode in the second case, but I got all of the armor necessary to get the crimson armor and the boss fight got significantly easier to beat that way.
 
The Wiki admins would certainly thank you. (heck, give 'em the raw stats too and let *them* figure out readability)

I assure you, the later wings are really messy and do not translate into normal stats the way most people think they do. The way the wiki represents wing power is a nice "translation" of that, but its a more accurate reflection of the actual in-game performance than what the code looks like.

I'd be better off posting my flight power grid, which might be a LITTLE out of date but I believe its mostly accurate.

UPDATE: Okay, I'm sorry, its hideous, and it might have a couple mistakes, but I'm trying to make two pictures from different years and different resolutions mesh, this is about as good as I'm going to get.

WingsChart.png
 
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A solution to the meteor thing could be to let it drop as it always did when you broke the orbs, but make it so you can't use bombs on it until after you kill EoW. That way if you can still get it beforehand, but it would be far easier to get after killing the boss. Or heck, keep the random chance for it to drop with an orb break, but increase the chance with a second orb break and guarantee it with the third, which will summon the boss anyway.
 
It seems like Fledgling Wings are unobtainable outside Journey Mode? Thats disappointing. I understand that having prehardmode wings of any kind would be way too strong, but maybe as something acquirable in very early hardmode, pre-wyvern fight? Or at least in some way, it'd be really disappointing to have their design be entirely Journey-Exclusive.
 
I'd rather not have you hating on my boss, who I like very much, in this thread. We don't have to do this thing guys.

Everyone deserves respect on this forum, whether it be a regular forum user like yourselves, a moderator, or a member of the dev team.

I don't want this to be a toxic thing. Please don't make it into one.
 
Hi, I have been playing 1.4 and I mostly enjoyed it a lot. However there are 5 things that I personally didn’t like and would like to be a bit different:

-1. The enchanted sword is so rare currently that is might as well doesn’t exist. This makes me pretty sad because it was my favorite pre-hardmode weapon. I do understand why it became so rare, it was really op earlygame.

My idea would be to make it uptainable late pre-hardmode, in which I had the idea to make either a sword-shrine that generates in de dungeon or loot you can find in the dungeon golden chests.

With this the enchanted sword still exist while not being op.

(Yes i know about the crates but 2% from gold crates is way to rare and titanium is hardmode)

2. The Amazon got more expensive to craft which I really like actually. But why did the damage decrease. This makes the Amazon useless because de Artery does 17 damage, which means both yo-yo’s are way to simular.

3. Boss masks got their sprite updates, but only for their Armor sprite and not their item sprite (king Slime excluded) This makes it really inconsistent and makes it feel rushed.

4. The luck system, while I mostly really like it, I don’t like how using regular torches decreases your luck and that you have to use biome torches.

I think that biome torches giving luck while being placed in the right biome is already motivational enough to place the right torches. Punishing plagers for not using the right torches honestly ruin the fun of this game and makes is less of A sandbox game, because you are not able to do what you want.

5. All items from texture packs needs to be the same size as vanilla. This ruins A lot of creativity and because this was possible in 1.3.5, many texture packs like the Calamity Texture Pack have textures they have to resp because they won’t work anymore in 1.4.

Honestly this is just A bad feature, so hopefully this issue can be fixed in the next update.

Also for Some reason If you switch texture packs, the tiles don’t load until you close the game, this is probably A bug.
 
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