Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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You know what? Maybe luck could have worked well as a toggle-able feature/master mode feature/expert mode feature. You could do so much with it to fit the game. Like if you want a challenge let's say on top of what mode you already are playing turn negative luck on. If you want to casually play the game turn negative luck off.
 
I talked about this already but im in full support of moving meteors post-eoc. Nerf the armor-spacegun combo because ultimately thats what this is about.

I always thought it was weird to have a mage armor that literally turns off the main drawback of mages. Its also "technically mage" but even if you are playing any other class with zero mana upgrades you can just switch to meteor for a while because mana doesnt matter apparently.

I dunno what should be the set bonus of meteor armor but the free space gun should just go imo. Make meteor actually pre-jungle armor, not a gated arguably worse sidegrade to it.


@Leinfors Could you say if early game summoner progression/item changes are possible or out of the question? I made some suggestions earlier, some of them probably cant happen but i would still like to now if theres a chance for some changes.
 
Denise the Reaper said:
Hi, I have been playing 1.4 and I mostly enjoyed it a lot. However there are 5 things that I personally didn’t like and would like to be a bit different:

-1. The enchanted sword is so rare currently that is might as well doesn’t exist. This makes me pretty sad because it was my favorite pre-hardmode weapon. I do understand why it became so rare, it was really op earlygame.

My idea would be to make it uptainable late pre-hardmode, in which I had the idea to make either a sword-shrine that generates in de dungeon or loot you can find in the dungeon golden chests.

With this the enchanted sword still exist while not being op.

(Yes i know about the crates but 2% from gold crates is way to rare and titanium is hardmode)

2. The Amazon got more expensive to craft which I really like actually. But why did the damage decrease. This makes the Amazon useless because de Artery does 17 damage, which means both yo-yo’s are way to simular.

3. Boss masks got their sprite updates, but only for their Armor sprite and not their item sprite (king Slime excluded) This makes it really inconsistent and makes it feel rushed.

4. The luck system, while I mostly really like it, I don’t like how using regular torches decreases your luck and that you have to use biome torches.

I think that biome torches giving luck while being placed in the right biome is already motivational enough to place the right torches. Punishing plagers for not using the right torches honestly ruin the fun of this game and makes is less of A sandbox game, because you are not able to do what you want.

5. All items from texture packs needs to be the same size as vanilla. This ruins A lot of creativity and because this was possible in 1.3.5, many texture packs like the Calamity Texture Pack have textures they have to resp because they won’t work anymore in 1.4.

Honestly this is just A bad feature, so hopefully this issue can be fixed in the next update.

Also for Some reason If you switch texture packs, the tiles don’t load until you close the game, this is probably A bug.
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Bad torch luck just got removed.
 
Honestly, for prehardmode armors and sets, Meteor stands out rather blatantly as its technically a Magic Set, but also doesn't lock you into any specific playstyle at all. Seems more like a sidegrade to resort to if you're having bad time with your main set. With Necro, Jungle, Bee and Molten sets being main class sets prehardmode.

As for earlygame summoner stuff. What it really needs to function is an accessory with +1 summon amount. It will not solve weapon accessibility for them, but will make life a lot easier. And there is already a perfect accessory in the game for that effect: Zoologist's Guide to Critter Companionship. Keep original effect, but add a summon bonus and early game power of summoner becomes much more reasonable, IMO. Alternatively, to prevent it being too viable in lategame have it provide a flat bonus to summon damage that would be pretty high percent-wise for Slime and Finch, but fall off quickly as you get stronger ones.
 
I suppose this request falls under "New content that you feel needs adjustment". At least I'm hoping I understand that right.

Could we possibly get furniture equivalents to all the tombstones that won't trigger the graveyard biome? I like the biome, but having it triggered by tombstones means we can't really use them as accents in building anymore without causing one now.
 
What if the meteor armor's stats buffed the Summoner class instead of the magic class and had a set bonus related to Summoners?
 
Anyone else find the Goblin Army to be a bit overtuned now?

It used to be fine with access to so many piercing weapons early on, but given it can spawn after only one shadow orb was smashed, while meteors no longer spawn until after the EoW dies, so no Meteor ammo or Space Gun and you can't get Waterbolt from the Dungeon until post-Skeletron anymore... Well... It's nearly impossible to deal with the absolute walls of rapid-fire archers they form without piercing weapons. Shurikens and the like sorta pierce, and the most expensive and hard to farm magic gem staffs kinda do a bit too, but they just aren't strong enough to deal with the enemies, leaving really only melee options like flails and spears, or Jester Arrows.

That said, it still needs to spawn before the Eater of Worlds since getting access to the Goblin Tinkerer is just essential.


(And not really a balance issue but CAN WE PLEASE have it so Goblins only open doors like Blood Moon zombies, instead of breaking them off? It's so annoying replacing doors all the time.)

Coolqwerts said:
What if the meteor armor's stats buffed the Summoner class instead of the magic class and had a set bonus related to Summoners?
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I've seen mods do something similar by giving a second headgear option for Meteor that changes it to a summoner set.
That would be a nice introduction to the multi-helm system of hardmode armors too.
 
A
Yvori said:
Anyone else find the Goblin Army to be a bit overtuned now?

It used to be fine with access to so many piercing weapons early on, but given it can spawn after only one shadow orb was smashed, while meteors no longer spawn until after the EoW dies, so no Meteor ammo or Space Gun and you can't get Waterbolt from the Dungeon until post-Skeletron anymore... Well... It's nearly impossible to deal with the absolute walls of rapid-fire archers they form without piercing weapons. Shurikens and the like sorta pierce, and the most expensive and hard to farm magic gem staffs kinda do a bit too, but they just aren't strong enough to deal with the enemies, leaving really only melee options like flails and spears, or Jester Arrows.

That said, it still needs to spawn before the Eater of Worlds since getting access to the Goblin Tinkerer is just essential.


(And not really a balance issue but CAN WE PLEASE have it so Goblins only open doors like Blood Moon zombies, instead of breaking them off? It's so annoying replacing doors all the time.)


I've seen mods do something similar by giving a second headgear option for Meteor that changes it to a summoner set.
That would be a nice introduction to the multi-helm system of hardmode armors too.
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A summoner helm for all general purpose hard-mode armors wouldn't be too bad either.
 
Heroman3003 said:
As for earlygame summoner stuff. What it really needs to function is an accessory with +1 summon amount. It will not solve weapon accessibility for them, but will make life a lot easier. And there is already a perfect accessory in the game for that effect: Zoologist's Guide to Critter Companionship. Keep original effect, but add a summon bonus and early game power of summoner becomes much more reasonable, IMO. Alternatively, to prevent it being too viable in lategame have it provide a flat bonus to summon damage that would be pretty high percent-wise for Slime and Finch, but fall off quickly as you get stronger ones.
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The problem i see with this is that in master mode accessory slots are plentiful and an extra minion slot is good enough for other classes to take too (and zoologist is super early in progression). Its yet again the problem of "everyone can do what summoner can in early game". Summoner really shouldve gotten a pre-queen bee armor set (probably pre-brain too) and at least a craftable weapon. This is why i suggested starting with cutting base minion capacity to zero. Early game summoner cant be balanced properly if every other class makes equal use of their items and weapons.
 
Since you guys are removing silly nerfs that noone needed and solely there to annoy players... Why not revert to the old vanity accessory slots?
It doesn't give players any advantage. If you wanted to swap your accessories you could have put it in your inventory. I strongly disagree with this change.
Old vanity acessory slots made the earlygame inventory management much better. Also most players do not care about their vanity until they get further into the game.
So basically, consider reverting the old vanity accessory slots.
 
Yvori said:
Anyone else find the Goblin Army to be a bit overtuned now?

It used to be fine with access to so many piercing weapons early on, but given it can spawn after only one shadow orb was smashed, while meteors no longer spawn until after the EoW dies, so no Meteor ammo or Space Gun and you can't get Waterbolt from the Dungeon until post-Skeletron anymore... Well... It's nearly impossible to deal with the absolute walls of rapid-fire archers they form without piercing weapons. Shurikens and the like sorta pierce, and the most expensive and hard to farm magic gem staffs kinda do a bit too, but they just aren't strong enough to deal with the enemies, leaving really only melee options like flails and spears, or Jester Arrows.

That said, it still needs to spawn before the Eater of Worlds since getting access to the Goblin Tinkerer is just essential.


(And not really a balance issue but CAN WE PLEASE have it so Goblins only open doors like Blood Moon zombies, instead of breaking them off? It's so annoying replacing doors all the time.)


I've seen mods do something similar by giving a second headgear option for Meteor that changes it to a summoner set.
That would be a nice introduction to the multi-helm system of hardmode armors too.
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You have piercing weapons in the form of jester arrows. With the insane spawn rates of stars now I took one brief night stroll and now have a full stack of jester arrows.
 
Leinfors said:
Fun fact: before I "nerfed it last", Blood Thorn had the highest single target DPS of any pre-Mech magic weapon. Might talk to Yorai about a hit-count reduction in exchange for boosted damage instead, I think this is a weapon where too much defense piercing could go wrong very quickly.

Wasp Gun is the number one item I wish I had balanced AFTER the defense penetration. Followed by CVS and Nettle Burst.



(Going off topic in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . )

Dude I am trying SO HARD.

I'm not tooting my own horn when I say this: every single "rescued from the land of inaccessible items" item that came back in 1.4 is there because I fought for it. The Sandstone Walls (the 50+ Ecto walls that I personally got worked in), Cake Slice, Lunar Drills . . . I'm tryin. I can't win them all, but I promise, if I can get approved to Crawling Hand in, I WILL DO IT! (And I happen to want it to be a Graveyard spawn too :p )
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Yo, crawling hand in Graveyard? Hell yes. Also, deep and utter eternal thank you for those Ecto Mist walls. Just amazing mate!

To return the thread back to item balances, do you have any say on yoyo's? I am like a hard core yoyo player. Legit my fav way to play. However... and I mean this as lovingly as I can, the fact yoyo's can go through 1 block wide gaps is just OP... yeah we get a damage reduction, but I feel that reduction isn't reduced enough. I never want to make my gameplay harder, because even after 9 years, 100% achievements, and over 1500 hours, im still a newb. However, it just seems to cheesy to be able to go through the gap. Again, not sure if this is within your scope, but just wanted to ask :)

I also wonder if perhaps summoners could get at least 1 pre-HM armour before Queen bee? Master mode queen be cannot be done with 2 finches/frog minions and a leather whip... (Whips are legit amazing, my heartfelt gratitude to whomever got that through). At least, Im the one that struggles with the minions/whips and queen bee lol. Others maybe not so much.
 
For a while I've been trying to think of ways to ease the early days of Summoners without overwriting any existing armors in use by other classes in their natural progression. At first, I thought the Pharaoh Set would be great for this as you can get it immediately, but it's a once a world chance. So... what's left? Only a few piecemeal that are both early enough in the game to be a first set before Bee Armor, and also not already class tied.

Two(Three) Candidates:
Rain Armor
Consists of two pieces. RNG based. Has negligible stats.

Eskimo Armor
Consists of three pieces. RNG based. Has no stats.

I'd recommend a +3% Summon Damage boost per piece and a set bonus of +1 Minion, or +9% as a set bonus and +1 Minion on the chest piece. The issue with Eskimo Armor is that it can be converted into Pink later. So I'm leaning towards Rain Armor.

So:
Rain Hat - 2 Defense
Rain Coat - 3 Defense, +1 Minion
Set Bonus - +9% Summon Damage

This is less defense than Lead Armor, and much less summoning stats than Bee Armor. Paltry, but it's something for Summoner when it'd otherwise have nothing. In this scenario, I'd buff the drop chance as well, if only a little.

EDIT:
Also some way for the Slime Staff to actually be obtainable within a time frame of use? A crafting recipe requiring a lot of Gel and Pink gel? A much higher drop rate from Pinky?
 
Ruin said:
For a while I've been trying to think of ways to ease the early days of Summoners without overwriting any existing armors in use by other classes in their natural progression. At first, I thought the Pharaoh Set would be great for this as you can get it immediately, but it's a once a world chance. So... what's left? Only a few piecemeal that are both early enough in the game to be a first set before Bee Armor, and also not already class tied.

Two(Three) Candidates:
Rain Armor
Consists of two pieces. RNG based. Has negligible stats.

Eskimo Armor
Consists of three pieces. RNG based. Has no stats.

I'd recommend a +3% Summon Damage boost per piece and a set bonus of +1 Minion, or +9% as a set bonus and +1 Minion on the chest piece. The issue with Eskimo Armor is that it can be converted into Pink later. So I'm leaning towards Rain Armor.

So:
Rain Hat - 2 Defense
Rain Coat - 3 Defense, +1 Minion
Set Bonus - +9% Summon Damage

This is less defense than Lead Armor, and much less summoning stats than Bee Armor. Paltry, but it's something for Summoner when it'd otherwise have nothing. In this scenario, I'd buff the drop chance as well, if only a little.
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EXACTLY!

Rain armour is a brilliant idea. I love your brain right now.
 
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