Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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I think the only way to get around it is making plant dyes sell for 0 gold in pre hard-mode and sell for 1 gold each in hard-mode if that is possible to code in.
I just don't understand many of the questionable decisions that were made in this update.

First Torch luck (that recently got patched because everyone hated it)

Then ruining the Reaver shark because of sequence breaking even though a game like Terraria should encourage creativity.

Proper NPC Housing, which limits where people want to put their NPCs

Meteorite after EOW/BOC. And let's not forget it being blast proof. Why that change, The meteorite Biome is not an interesting Biome at all. It just has meteor heads as the only mobs, and they don't drop anything useful for it.

And finally, the Strange Plant Dyes, which they can just make it so that it has no money value. Which is easier to do and benefits everyone.
 
I have only read about 4 out of the 17 pages of this, and at LEAST 1/6 of them have been complaining about torch mechanic.
Yes, I think torch luck is rather dumb. For one thing, you have to go on the Wiki to learn ANYTHING about it, as it seems really subtle in-game.
The thing I think I dislike the most is the fact that normal torches decrease luck. I get that a biome torch in the wrong biome decreases luck and a torch in the right biome increases it, but WHY THE HECK do normal torches decrease it? Forest seems like the 'neutral' ground in Terraria, and regular torches seem to be the most neutral torch out there. I like the biome torch idea, but let the neutral torch stay neutral.




blood moon won't happen in journey whatsoever
WAT? Are you sure? Because that sucks.

Wait, torch luck got patched?
 
Yes, but mages don't have any really good options at that stage anymore.

You are not class restricted this early into the game. I usually just use whatever until the class-specific armors become available. (I have an ice boomerang, platinum bow, and diamond staff in my hotbar atm). Until then, you are basically classless and free to use whatever you want. Early armor only provides defense bonuses.
 
Didn't understand why bad torch luck was introduced in the first place. It punishes players for really no good reason, didn't have any information in game to clarify what it means and overall goes against what the game is about. Good torch luck made sense, if you stick to a biome's theme then you should get a little bonus, but shouldn't ever be punished if you don't.

You get to play the way you want to, but if you stick to some stuff thematically it will reward you a little. You wouldn't even need to clarify the good luck in game for the torches, since there'd be no downside, you'd just find sometimes you got luckier. Better than the alternative which would have been several hours trying to get an item and found out it was because you planted a couple of 'wrong' torches.

Journey Mode so far has been enjoyable, although I'm a bit at odds with the Power menu options available and wish there was a way to remove some of the options like say in the main menu. Like changing time, weather, god mode, spawn rate below 1, etc. It's like half of Journey is really good ideas, having to research an item by collecting so many to then having an infinite resource is neat. You have to go out of your way to still collect these items like normal, but at some point you get an infinite use, removing some annoying grind sessions just to find more of a particular thing. Plus it gives some build up towards it. Spending time on fishing for example, it was fun doing the daily fishing quest, getting a few fish, some crates and push towards the research for them. A couple of wooden crates here, an Iron one there, rarely a golden one. It feels like another level to progression that doesn't have you spending hours having to just grind while your brain goes numb and spending several hours just to find an extra 5-10 of an item or more.

I do think a few should be tweaked at how much you need to research before you get it infinitely. Like for the more common ones like dirt and such, you need to research more because of how easy they it is to obtain and you would probably get so much during your playthrough that getting infinite dirt in the first 5-10 minutes of starting a world is a bit too quick. Same thing with wood and then stone, you'll be drowning in them and while you go digging, your going to amass a ridiculous number that you'll have to keep trashing because you already researched it so quickly.

I know Journey is like a creative mode but it feels like it's so close to being the perfect mix of the standard mode and a creative mode on top. You still have to work to build up the items you need in order to research them and gain them for as much creativity as you wish, but the work is still there to begin with. I dunno, I would prefer if there was a way to remove options from the Power menu. Some of these are just neat and do expand on the standard, but then there sits God mode, changing time, etc. It just feels like you could tweak a few options away and have another mode thats near the best parts of Standard, with the best parts of Creative.

Oh, one real complain that puzzles me completely (more than the torch luck, as everyone else has covered it). What the hell happened to Sticky bombs/dynamite. Over half the time when I put it to a wall or ceiling, it just falls off. Completely ruining the entire point of it being 'Sticky'. Haven't worked out yet why this happens or if it's a bug but it's really frustrating, especially when the entire point of the times is that they stick to stuff, if they can fail at that then what is the point in them anymore.
 
I'm pretty certain that the Torch Mechanic recently added to TJE 1.4 is going or has gone bye-bye. "Torches" is being edit presently. I just got an "Unavailable at this time" blank page and then refreshed to this:

Terraria - Torch Mechanic 2020-05-20 10h-46m-PM.png
 
@Coolqwerts
Did you mean to quote me a few posts ago? Something you wanted to bring up but forgot about?
-----
While my brain is in the area of Summoner, is there any chance the
Vampire Frog
can get both a buff and an increase in drop rate? Simply getting the enemy to spawn is a lot of work, it's essentially a mini-boss, and there's other drops from it. The buff doesn't need to be drastic, just maybe an extra two points of base damage? Just doesn't seem like it's worth the hassle when the machine gun Hornets and burst-fire Imps exist.
 
First of all, potentially important balance suggestion that might have been overlooked:

Now that i think about ecology, can we replace Clementiator with some kind of automatic 5-tile radius Powder dispencer (or Solution dispencer, solutions are fine too) and then reintroduce Clementiator as a DCU-tier tool. I mean as hard to obtain as DCU. I'm asking because introduction of Clementiator removed that pressing feeling that the world is going to ruin, should you focus on bosses and mobs and not act fast to contain Corruption.

Late edit in case of future answer: i checked changelogs and now see that Clentaminator(sic!) was added in 1.2 when Golem was final boss and no Expert Mode increased coin rates made its cost of 2P prohibitive enough for it to be considered endgame item. But with much more content today i think it needs to be changed. Btw here is another idea for mid-game replacement: some more powerful alternative of Sunflower just to protect numerous Happiness-based towns from Corruption. Might be craftable with Hallowed Bars.

Second of all, i'm glad that negative(?) luck is at least removed. I'll just recite my previous thought about it: flesh it out, make it blend with Corruption/Hallow mechanic as Ecology system (judging by discord screenshots posted ITT i think this idea was there actually) and(!) make it Master Exclusive. Then it can even be as punitive as designed. I started Master character and feel (at least for now) like it's only moderately harder than Expert despite increased damages.

Btw again, can we have tile-exploding and corruption-spreading enemies back for Master as a cherry on top?

Third of all, blocking meteorite is nice and dandy, but now i'm certainly having hard time (again, Master) to make ore armors, so maybe their bar cost should drop, plus, considering that much easier to obtain wooden armors are just as viable (as in "not viable at all") for boosting defence, i think pre-HM ores should receive other minor set bonuses besides extra defence. Again, they were here forever, and were essentially replaced by wood-meteorite pipeline long time ago. Same might apply to weapons, although i must admit that i got really good modifier on shadewood broadsword, so it may skew my perspective. Although now that i think of it, making several wood swords aiming for good modifiers is still easier.

Fourth, pls revert social slots back to 1.3 To me it would be the last obviously wrong thing with this overall great update.

Fifth of all, i noticed through changlog that droprates for Angler info accessories were increased since 1.4.0.1. Thanks.
 
Honestly, never noticed Torch Luck at all, nor did I mind the idea. My only concern was that biome-specific torches would be rather limited, until I saw the crafting recipes for them. I wouldn't mind this as an option anyway as an optional extra challenge. Not sure what the outrage was for.. as I said, never noticed a difference.
 
Honestly, never noticed Torch Luck at all, nor did I mind the idea. My only concern was that biome-specific torches would be rather limited, until I saw the crafting recipes for them. I wouldn't mind this as an option anyway as an optional extra challenge. Not sure what the outrage was for.. as I said, never noticed a difference.
A toggle-able feature would be useful or maybe just add negative torch luck to master mode?
 
@Coolqwerts
Did you mean to quote me a few posts ago? Something you wanted to bring up but forgot about?
-----
While my brain is in the area of Summoner, is there any chance the
Vampire Frog
can get both a buff and an increase in drop rate? Simply getting the enemy to spawn is a lot of work, it's essentially a mini-boss, and there's other drops from it. The buff doesn't need to be drastic, just maybe an extra two points of base damage? Just doesn't seem like it's worth the hassle when the machine gun Hornets and burst-fire Imps exist.
So I quoted that the Obsidian armor would be the Summoner equivalent of Molten Armor.
 
Well... To break the bad luck torch talk...

I think something needs to be done about the Gladiator Set.
The defense given by the set is average (beside can be outranked by equipments pos second boss). The problem is, unless I want It for vanity gear, why should I farm for this?
Hoplites themselves are quite tough, their spawn is quite average, and somewhat the Gladiator Set is rare to acquire, for each part. It is easier to get large stacks of Javelins than the entire Gladiator Set.

The set Itself needs something to call one's attention to it, like for example, give a buff when using Javelin type weapons? Beside that Itself wont solve the problem of It being outranked easily (even more since the antlion den doesn't always have a visible entrance).

Another set that has quite the same problem is the Mining set. Acquiring the helmet is simple, just drop some gold coins at the Merchant. The problem is the pants and the shirt. The monster that drops it is uncommon, the drop rate of each piece is aswell. By the time one farms for it, the set will obviously get outranked once one enters Hardmode, so unless you're getting it for vanity gear, also a bad deal.

Well... Why the Obsidian set exists? Vanity wise It is nice, but... Well, It would be perfect for skipping the Platinum Set, if Obsidian was diggable with non evil pickaxe. Maybe If someone likes equipments that only gives defense, without any other bonus?

Sorry If this sounds very vague, but I'm holding myself not to over complicate the balance feedback with my insane surge of ideas.

Also sorry If someone suggested this before, but... 17 pages of suggestions dude... Beside I think 12 are about the bad luck torch.
 
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@Coolqwerts
Post #317, there's a quote of mine at the beginning but no comment related to it. Just a misclick?

@Nakano15
I second that Gladiator needs a cleaning. I think it makes the most sense to provide bonuses to Melee (for Gladius) and Ranged (for Javelins) with at least a few extra points of defense since it's rating is so low.
 
Now that I've had more time to play around, I have some suggestions for items.

First up, the Sergeant United Shield. As far as normal attacks go I think it's good, though it can sometimes spend way too long in the air if enemies are scattered. The main problem is the right click parry which, as with the Brand of the Inferno, is far too tight on timing to be useful. I propose making the timing more generous, and/or removing the movement speed penalty, which makes it very hard to use. If necessary, reduce the payoff or increase the cooldown; a weak effect that can be gained reliably is better than a strong effect which is nigh impossible to get. For that matter, the Brand of the Inferno would benefit from this change as well, and almost certainly wouldn't need any nerfs to counterbalance it).

I think the Light Discs could lose the stacking mechanic they share with the Bananarangs (adjusting the crafting cost accordingly). It makes some sense for the Bananarangs because Bananarangs are hard to farm, but nobody ever uses a partial stack of Light Disks because the Destroyer drops enough materials for a full set. Making them a single item would let them be reforged, a nice boost to their power at a time when the melee class has limited options for handling the increasingly common enemies and bosses that keep their distance. Given that being able to craft Light Discs also means being able to craft the Megashark, I don't think they'll suddenly become too strong.

The Dart Pistol, Dart Rifle, Crystal Darts, Cursed Darts, and Ichor Darts I have mentioned previously, but I'm making a more formal argument now. Prior to 1.4 they were already very strong items thanks to the properties of the ammo. The near-homing ricochets of Crystal Darts made them great for invasions and general exploration (the tier 2 Old One's Army could virtually be soloed by standing in one spot and firing Crystal Darts in one direction if there was a vertical wall to bounce them back), and were also good against Skeleton Prime since he has so many parts. Cursed Darts are similar to the North Pole, carpeting the ground in fire to kill invasions and decimating the Destroyer. Ichor Darts inflict the valuable Ichor debuff and their displaced shotgun spread let them do high damage to a single target from a distance. You could use darts reliably through the mech bosses and Plantera, maybe on the Golem too. They're also extremely accessible, requiring only the ability to kill Corrupt/Crimson Mimics and crafted by hand in large quantities from common materials. Why they got a buff is beyond me. What they lack is endgame viability; by the time you get past Golem their special properties are no longer able to make up for their relatively low damage, even after 1.4's buff, resulting in the loss of an interesting and fun weapon type. If it were up to me, I would revert the buffs and add a new stronger dart gun somewhere post Golem. Nothing fancy, just a Dart Rifle/Dart Pistol with the numbers buffed.

The Razorblade Typhoon is frankly too good. The main issue is the extreme versatility; no matter what I'm doing, I've never found the Razorblade Typhoon to be anything less than a good option, and usually it's amazing. And that was back in the 1.2.4 days, since in 1.3 its mana cost was effectively halved for some unknowable reason. I think that buff should be reverted.

The Staff of the Frost Hydra currently is the weakest of the biome chest items. The main problem it faces is that, at the time you get it, your main challenges are either the enemy hordes of invasions or bosses that zip around the screen at high speeds. A sentry that damages one target at a time and has relatively low accuracy has little value, especially when the Tavernkeep provides sentries of comparable power that are much easier to acquire. I believe accuracy is the issue that's easiest to address, either increasing the projectile's velocity or giving it some kind of homing ability. Edit: The ability to shoot through blocks might help it too; it can already be placed on the other side of blocks so it wouldn't be much of an increase in raw power, but it would be convenient and make it more distinct from other sentries.

My most ambitious suggestion is about Cactus Armor. Currently the set is stuck in a limbo where it's slightly better than Wood armor but not as good as Copper armor or better, meaning it has no real purpose other than slightly rewarding people who go to the slight effort of gathering cactus. Why not make it the early Summoner armor we all want? Replace the current set bonus with +1 minion or even just +x% summon damage, and the Summoner class is much more viable from the start of the game. The paltry 3 Defense it would have ensures that other classes won't be as keen on stealing it, because at the time every point of Defense you can scrape together matters.

I'll probably have more suggestions in the future, there's still plenty left to experiment with.
 
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Blood Feeder, a hardmode enemy, has only 20 health. I think this might be a typo.

also the Red Devil enemy needs 66 more health in order to be properly balanced
Wow, I never knew they were exclusive to hardmode because of how low their stats were. I'd say it would be more appropriate if they were not locked behind hardmode, considering that it's just a fish. Their stats are just fine for that job, too.
 
Now that I've had more time to play around, I have some suggestions for items.

First up, the Sergeant United Shield. As far as normal attacks go I think it's good, though it can sometimes spend way too long in the air if enemies are scattered. The main problem is the right click parry which, as with the Brand of the Inferno, is far too tight on timing to be useful. I propose making the timing more generous, and/or removing the movement speed penalty, which makes it very hard to use. If necessary, reduce the payoff or increase the cooldown; a weak effect that can be gained reliably is better than a strong effect which is nigh impossible to get. For that matter, the Brand of the Inferno would benefit from this change as well, and almost certainly wouldn't need any nerfs to counterbalance it).

I think the Light Discs could lose the stacking mechanic they share with the Bananarangs (adjusting the crafting cost accordingly). It makes some sense for the Bananarangs because Bananarangs are hard to farm, but nobody ever uses a partial stack of Light Disks because the Destroyer drops enough materials for a full set. Making them a single item would let them be reforged, a nice boost to their power at a time when the melee class has limited options for handling the increasingly common enemies and bosses that keep their distance. Given that being able to craft Light Discs also means being able to craft the Megashark, I don't think they'll suddenly become too strong.

The Dart Pistol, Dart Rifle, Crystal Darts, Cursed Darts, and Ichor Darts I have mentioned previously, but I'm making a more formal argument now. Prior to 1.4 they were already very strong items thanks to the properties of the ammo. The near-homing ricochets of Crystal Darts made them great for invasions and general exploration (the tier 2 Old One's Army could virtually be soloed by standing in one spot and firing Crystal Darts in one direction if there was a vertical wall to bounce them back), and were also good against Skeleton Prime since he has so many parts. Cursed Darts are similar to the North Pole, carpeting the ground in fire to kill invasions and decimating the Destroyer. Ichor Darts inflict the valuable Ichor debuff and their displaced shotgun spread let them do high damage to a single target from a distance. You could use darts reliably through the mech bosses and Plantera, maybe on the Golem too. They're also extremely accessible, requiring only the ability to kill Corrupt/Crimson Mimics and crafted by hand in large quantities from common materials. Why they got a buff is beyond me. What they lack is endgame viability; by the time you get past Golem their special properties are no longer able to make up for their relatively low damage, even after 1.4's buff, resulting in the loss of an interesting and fun weapon type. If it were up to me, I would revert the buffs and add a new stronger dart gun somewhere post Golem. Nothing fancy, just a Dart Rifle/Dart Pistol with the numbers buffed.

The Razorblade Typhoon is frankly too good. The main issue is the extreme versatility; no matter what I'm doing, I've never found the Razorblade Typhoon to be anything less than a good option, and usually it's amazing. And that was back in the 1.2.4 days, since in 1.3 its mana cost was effectively halved for some unknowable reason. I think that buff should be reverted.

The Staff of the Frost Hydra currently is the weakest of the biome chest items. The main problem it faces is that, at the time you get it, your main challenges are either the enemy hordes of invasions or bosses that zip around the screen at high speeds. A sentry that damages one target at a time and has relatively low accuracy has little value, especially when the Tavernkeep provides sentries of comparable power that are much easier to acquire. I believe accuracy is the issue that's easiest to address, either increasing the projectile's velocity or giving it some kind of homing ability.

My most ambitious suggestion is about Cactus Armor. Currently the set is stuck in a limbo where it's slightly better than Wood armor but not as good as Copper armor or better, meaning it has no real purpose other than slightly rewarding people who go to the slight effort of gathering cactus. Why not make it the early Summoner armor we all want? Replace the current set bonus with +1 minion or even just +x% summon damage, and the Summoner class is much more viable from the start of the game. The paltry 3 Defense it would have ensures that other classes won't be as keen on stealing it, because at the time every point of Defense you can scrape together matters.

I'll probably have more suggestions in the future, there's still plenty left to experiment with.
Cactus armor is no longer better than Wooden Armor as of the 1.4.0.1 update
 
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