Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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I am curious if the final Jungle Mimic will appear in 1.4.1? It is rather his last chance, as well as for the much-anticipated Zombie Hand. But while Hand can spawn in the Graveyard biome or during a Solar Eclipse, Jungle Mimic must be able to summon. Because he can appear, for example, in the underground jungle in the post-Planter stage, but there should also be an option to summon him. For example, by placing Temple Key in a regular chest?
 
I am curious if the final Jungle Mimic will appear in 1.4.1? It is rather his last chance, as well as for the much-anticipated Zombie Hand. But while Hand can spawn in the Graveyard biome or during a Solar Eclipse, Jungle Mimic must be able to award. Because he can appear, for example, in the underground jungle in the post-Planter stage, but there should also be an option to summon him. For example, by placing Temple Key in a regular chest?
No and no.
They are not adding new enemies in 1.4.1.
Plus:
JUNGLE MIMIC:
The jungle already has too many rare drops- that's why this wasn't added.
SEVERED HAND:
No idea really.

pls more spoilers tho
 
We don't actually know what might appear in 1.4.1. This is not a small bugfix update, after all, this type of version usually adds something interesting.
Nah I asked leinfors in the discord. He confirmed that jungle mimic will never be added. He said that cenx asked people for ideas on drops but never could come up with enough. He also said the jungle mimic could be abused if they added it cause the jungle is post mechs so the mimic would have to have post mech loot, but at the same time the player shouldn’t be able to get its loot pre mechs.
 
Also there is not a single item which does classless damage besides the bone glove. (Except the lawn mower but you’re not even meant to really attack with that anyway lol)
*Sad Bouncy Dynamite noises*

Also, about the rocket launchers:
Ranger is my least played class, so I haven't done a Ranger playthrough since 1.3.
But I can definitely tell you that rockets are probably my favorite ammo type (other than darts because I'm a hipster like that).
In 1.2, the Stynger absolutely carried me, especially in the Pumpkin Moon where it netted me my very first Wave 15s.
I'm happy to see that my boy has gotten some attention in 1.4.
Also, my friend I was playing with when 1.4 dropped, was a Ranger and I remember him noting the amazing DPS with the rocket launchers. So well done, honestly. I look forward to trying Ranger again some day.
Also also, I wasn't aware the Stynger had any nerfs. Unless I'm looking at the wiki wrong.
 
The intention was to try to make all of the three early Rocket Launchers have some sort of unique niche, but increase all of their viability in one way or another. I figured Stynger (long suffering from a severe nerf in the days of Pumpkin Moon), could use a little boost too, so it received the same 2x primary damage bonus from Rocket Launcher as well.

Grenade Launcher (Buff)
- Use Time decreased from 30 to 20

Rocket Launcher (Buff)
- Damage decreased from 50 to 45
- Does 2x damage on direct hits to a single target

Proximity Mine Launcher (Rework / Buff)
- Does 3x damage when mines are stationary, normal damage when they are still moving
- Use Time increased from 40 to 50
- Reduced the number of active mines that you can have at once

Stynger (Buff)
- Does 2x damage on direct hits to a single target (Only applies to the initial bolt, not the fragments)

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize they were part of the 1.4 changes, I thought you had mentioned them somewhere in this thread. I unfortunately haven't had the pleasure of playing 1.4, cause console, but from what I can tell, the first two launchers and Stynger seem fine to me. However, I don't personally think the Mine Launcher needs any work, it's sort of a niche item that's fun to to play around with and use in Multiplayer, but no one uses mines too seriously and isn't usually a part of someone's main load out. It is fun to mess around with, though. :)

PS: I also left you a couple questions before in this thread. I'm not going to repeat them here for the third time for fear of bothering you, and won't ask again, but I'm just curious if you saw them or missed them, and whether or not you want to see them. <3
 
I am curious if the final Jungle Mimic will appear in 1.4.1? It is rather his last chance, as well as for the much-anticipated Zombie Hand. But while Hand can spawn in the Graveyard biome or during a Solar Eclipse, Jungle Mimic must be able to summon. Because he can appear, for example, in the underground jungle in the post-Planter stage, but there should also be an option to summon him. For example, by placing Temple Key in a regular chest?

Nah, dude, Jungle is already stacked, we really don't need more.

@Leinfors This isn't related to my previous post, I'm curious about how the new advancements for the music items will work. Apparently you'll get achievements for playing music on the guitar items like the Stellar Tune and Ivy. Music isn't exactly the easiest thing to play, especially in a video game, so will they be some sort of guide in the tooltip on how it functions or something similar, because I already know that most people are going to look up tutorials online.

Finally, I watched a video by a YouTuber named Beaveracc, and he found out during his research that the Angler quests for his furniture items are very hard to get after the increased drop rates for the rarer items every 50 quests to the point where it's almost impossible to get them without extensive fishing for his quests. Will you guys be looking into that? :)

If you want I can link the video.
 
This isn't related to my previous post, I'm curious about how the new advancements for the music items will work. Apparently you'll get achievements for playing music on the guitar items like the Stellar Tune and Ivy. Music isn't exactly the easiest thing to play, especially in a video game, so will they be some sort of guide in the tooltip on how it functions or something similar, because I already know that most people are going to look up tutorials online.

I’d hope that they would be less specific, like “obtain and play a guitar”. All of the guitars in this case are rare and difficult to obtain, being Rain Song, Ivy, The Axe and Stellar Tune. I think that just using the item for x amount of time would be good enough an achievement.

Who knows though, Terraria has some very strangely suspicious achievements, like firing a bee gun in bee armor. We’ll have to wait and see I guess
 
I’d hope that they would be less specific, like “obtain and play a guitar”. All of the guitars in this case are rare and difficult to obtain, being Rain Song, Ivy, The Axe and Stellar Tune. I think that just using the item for x amount of time would be good enough an achievement.

Who knows though, Terraria has some very strangely suspicious achievements, like firing a bee gun in bee armor. We’ll have to wait and see I guess

I agree. My music knowledge is abysmal and any sort of music-related challenge in any game just hurts my head. I'm quite sure you could get through every single achievement without looking up any guides, but these new ones might throw a wrench into that. However, just playing a guitar is a little easy, and it needs to be a little more specific than that, IMO, just not too hard.

also new achievements in the latest state of the game am so hyped!!!
 
I’m pretty sure that the different instruments are tuned differently and therefore play different notes, so if there’s a song achievement it will either be available for only one instrument or will be available in any key.

Which means the Magical Harp is probably the best option for getting the achievement.
 
Not looking foward to the Brain of Confusion nerf. The duration reduced to 1 sec is way too much. Crit chance % i can somewhat understand but the duration nerf is a overkill.
Also not looking foward to the fact that Horseshoe will be more annoying to find.
It's reduced BY 1 sec not to 1 sec.
 
Sorry for quite a late response. I wasn't able to do it earlier.

Welcome to the balance thread! Glad to have you here. :)

Thank you for kind words!))

Welcome to the balance thread! Glad to have you here. :)

2: These things have been noted and are being worked on. Obviously not completely by the suggestions, but they're doing their best. And I still don't believe true melee is viable. What's wrong with a bunch of rainbow cats shooting out of your sword?

The thing is, that shooting swords are just like magic weapons, which doesn't consume mana and are able to hit with the weapon itself. Having a couple of those is fine, but they should be the most powerful weapons out of all available melee options, because then melee class loses its uniqueness as playing melee will turn out as playing mage or ranger with weapons, which don't consune any mana or ammo. The way I see melee class is a tanky class, who deal less damage (but ok amount of it) then mages or rangers with its ranged attacks (I mean Yoyos, Boomerangs, Shooting Swords, etc.), but the majority of damage it can do comes from true melee strikes (I mean weapons like spears, Broadswords, even Shortswords!!). Then, the way of playing as a Melee player will be much different from other classes, and that will make it better and won't upset a lot of melee fans before fixes, as Ranged Melee weapons will still be useful (considering the fact, that you won't be able to be close to an enemy for a long time, as obviously, you will take damage.

3: But prefixes are balanced? I mean, you can choose whether or not you want to mix them up, or go with Warding or Menacing or Lucky or whatever. I don't I've ever seen anyone say that prefixes are over/underpowered. And defense is not useless. Sure, defense in Master mode can be a pain since everything one-shots you, but in Normal and Expert mode, a few defense can be the difference between life and death.

I am actually a person, who always makes defensive builds and I agree with you. However, a majority of people I know from various other social medias, say that the amount of defense all-warding accessories give you is too small, while great damage boost will let you to kill enemues and bosses faster (and by that you will be able to potentially get less hits, as fight will end faster). I personally disagree with them, as I am bad at dodging, but I still think, that I had to leave this here for developers to discuss.

5: As you said, not a balance change, but I find the WoF to be more fiery-themed than anything, considering he's fought in hell. So, to be honest, the Firecracker is better-themed than anything else. But in the end, does the WoF have a theme outside of fire? He's the Guide unleashing his true power in the form of a bunch of blood and guts, soooooo... yeah.

Judging by other WoF's drops Fiery Weapons doesn't fit its loot pool in my opinion. Let's be real, seeing a fiery weapon next to a big sword, laser rifle and a steampunk-looking gun feels weird.

7: But that's what that is now; a vanity weapon. It's been replaced by the Terragrim (which I'm still salty about, why you gotta do the Arkhalis like that. Jk) and now the Arkhalis is just there as a token. And when have you ever used a dev weapon as a main source of damage? :eek:

But other Developer's Weapons are actually quite good. If Red's Throw may be useful (if, for example, it drops from your First Mech's Treasure Bag) for your playthrough, why can't Arkhalis (which is actually one of my favourite weapons in the entire game) be useful too?

You can stack the effects of horsseshoe balloons with the wings, however if I had to chose just one to use I'm taking the horseshoe balloon, fledgling wings just aren't that great at flight.

But they can stack with Spectre Boots which will give you greater mobility, because Spectre Boots give you a pretty good flight time and wing have good flying and gliding speed. It not only seems weird to have wing in Pre-Hardmode, but also gives you too good mobility for the state of the game, you can obtain them (You can theoretically obtain it before EoC as goblins come just after you break a Shadow Orb/ Crimson Heart (to get spectre boots) and you can obtain wing at your first day too (if you're lucky enough to get a gravitation potion), and even after BoC or EoW it would be a more powerful set up, then Horseshoe Baloon + Boots). And if developers are trying to prevent huge Progression-Skipping ways, why wouldn't they do it with that.

I'd say just add 2 defense to each defensive modifier, where warding gives +6 defense, although the devs seem very conservative about defense buffs. Flesh knuckles only gained 1 defense.

I actually can't understand the developers a bit. Why can't defensive builds actually be powerful? If they allow 24% damage or Crit boost in Expert (I cover expert, as in Master mode defense is useless completely, as pretty much everyting one-shots, two-shots you), which is a massive bonus, why Defense can't give you equally powerful abilities as well? Right now defensive builds are not as good as I think, they should be.

no... this will still break progression, the concern wasn't being able to mine hardmode ores after defeating WoF the concern was getting access to hellstone before fighting any boss. I'd suggest lowering its useTime so that it mines faster than a gold/plat pick but not change its pick power, tthat way you would still be excited getting it early on because of the faster mining speed but it won't break progression.

I know, that it will break progression, but I think it's impossible (or extremely hard) to buff it other way, considering that not a lot of people actually like fishing. My concept keeps it OP, but less OP, then it was. It's not a perfect decision, but I don't see other ways.

If we're going to move a whip to late prehardmode how about we don't screw with the best whip in the game? I'd rather nerf the morning star and move it to preahardmode dungeon since it's kind of in an awkward place right now.

The main problem is not the fact, that Pre-Hardmode lacks whips (althogh, I stipo think, that pre-Hardmode summoner should get buffed a bit), but the fact, that it doesn't fit well as a WOF drops, considering the fact, that other drops are more Steampunk-themed (emblems doesn't count). And Firecracker looks like a weapon made from Hellstome bars (when I saw it on a wiki for the first time I legitimately though, that it's crafted from Hellstone Bars or is found in Shadows Chests. I was a bit Shocked, when I found out, that my predictions were wrong).
 
The thing is, that shooting swords are just like magic weapons, which doesn't consume mana and are able to hit with the weapon itself. Having a couple of those is fine, but they should be the most powerful weapons out of all available melee options, because then melee class loses its uniqueness as playing melee will turn out as playing mage or ranger with weapons, which don't consune any mana or ammo. The way I see melee class is a tanky class, who deal less damage (but ok amount of it) then mages or rangers with its ranged attacks (I mean Yoyos, Boomerangs, Shooting Swords, etc.), but the majority of damage it can do comes from true melee strikes (I mean weapons like spears, Broadswords, even Shortswords!!). Then, the way of playing as a Melee player will be much different from other classes, and that will make it better and won't upset a lot of melee fans before fixes, as Ranged Melee weapons will still be useful (considering the fact, that you won't be able to be close to an enemy for a long time, as obviously, you will take damage.

Thats the thing, is it does already work that way. There are quite a few projectile shooting melee weapons, but they still either do not have as much range or as much damage as a ranged equivalent.

Compare the Possessed Hatchet and the Paladin’s Hammer, both boomerangs obtained around the same period in progression. Not the perfect example, but roll with me. Possessed Hatchet has a much lower fire rate than the Hammer, meaning it consistently pulls much less DPS than the hammer. However, the Hatchet has homing abilities and flies much farther before returning, trading damage for range. Similar situations can be seen with a lot of weapon pairs at the same point in progression - Daybreak vs Eruption, Shadowflame Knives vs Fetid Baghs, etc.

Now compare the DPS of the Influx Waver to that of the Laser Machine Gun or the Xenopopper. Influx Waver has very good range due to its projectiles. In my experience with class only playthroughs, the Xenopopper and LMG pull slightly higher DPS. Not by much, but it’s a notable difference. Influx is also slightly less versatile due to a huge difference in projectile speed. Now compare your DPS when attackinf with the blade as well, you’ll pull a lot more DPS than either of those two. Make this same comparison for Meowmere vs SDMG or Celebration MK2, or for Light Discs vs Megashark, etc.

The other issue is that getting close to the enemy to execute true melee isn’t exactly viable. It works in some situations, but not enough for it to be realistic. Try using the Starlight on Duke Fishron or facetanking the Wall of Flesh with a sword, you’ll see what I mean. Naturally, melee defense is higher because their range is either more limited or their DPS is lower depending on weapon choice, but this shouldn’t mean melee is always forced to attack at such close range.

I’m aware it’s not thematically accurate for melee to be shooting projectiles everywhere and cluttering the screen, but I think the class being viable matters more than logical accuracy.
 
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Thats the thing, is it does already work that way. There are quite a few projectile shooting melee weapons, but they still either do not have as much range or as much damage as a ranged equivalent.

Compare the Possessed Hatchet and the Paladin’s Hammer, both boomerangs obtained around the same period in progression. Not the perfect example, but roll with me. Possessed Hatchet has a much lower fire rate than the Hammer, meaning it consistently pulls much less DPS than the hammer. However, the Hatchet has homing abilities and flies much farther before returning, trading damage for range. Similar situations can be seen with a lot of weapon pairs at the same point in progression - Daybreak vs Eruption, Shadowflame Knives vs Fetid Baghs, etc.

Now compare the DPS of the Influx Waver to that of the Laser Machine Gun or the Xenopopper. Influx Waver has very good range due to its projectiles. In my experience with class only playthroughs, the Xenopopper and LMG pull slightly higher DPS. Not by much, but it’s a notable difference. Influx is also slightly less versatile due to a huge difference in projectile speed. Now compare your DPS when attackinf with the blade as well, you’ll pull a lot more DPS than either of those two. Make this same comparison for Meowmere vs SDMG or Celebration MK2, or for Light Discs vs Megashark, etc.

The other issue is that getting close to the enemy to execute true melee isn’t exactly viable. It works in some situations, but not enough for it to be realistic. Try using the Starlight on Duke Fishron or facetanking the Wall of Flesh with a sword, you’ll see what I mean. Naturally, melee defense is higher because their range is either more limited or their DPS is lower depending on weapon choice, but this shouldn’t mean melee is always forced to attack at such close range.

I’m aware it’s not thematically accurate for melee to be shooting projectiles everywhere and cluttering the screen, but I think the class being viable matters more than logical accuracy.
I feel like the weaknesses of range in the melee class should exist, it shouldn't lose its identity in order to become viable like ranger and magic classes are.

It's true that swords with projectiles are better when up close, but you very rarely are going to do that, rather it's better to be at a distance and essentially be a lower dps, higher defense ranger

I think the best solution is kinda what we already have minus the projectile swords, against bosses where you need range, you can use boomerangs, yoyos, or flails. Also, you could make spears bigger imo. These weapons have some range while feeling in theme for the class and makes the class actually have a different play style that the other classes.

Honestly i think there should be more differentiation between the classes, i sometimes when playing mage feel like a glass cannon ranger rather than a different class. Like all the pre hardmode staves are basically jester arrows with less piercing, the magic guns like the space gun are literally just ranger weapons that cost mana, and the razorpine is essentially a machine gun. There are magic weapons that are unique and awesome though like the crimson rod, ice rod, magic missile, life drain, meteor staff, and tomb of infinite wisdom.

Also, unrelated, but i think it would be really cool if the open/activate button (right clicking) for anything that uses ammo like say a bow, used the second type of ammo in line.
For example, say you had a wooden bow and your ammo slots on the right looked like this
  • Flaming arrows
  • Jester arrows
  • wooden arrows
if you left clicked you'd use flaming arrows as usual, but if you right clicked you would use the next in line, so jester arrows.
I think this would be an awesome quality of life improvement.
 
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