Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Both of the Beetle Armor hints speak of "helping beetles," but only the Shell summons the little beetles to "help."
Is it possible to change the description of the second breastplate, or add a reinforcement visualization in the form of beetles?
The helping beetles on the Beetle Breastplate also appears and grant a similair stacking buff to boost attack, but only when you're attacking enemies.
 
Re-Logic definetely needs to hire or pick up more employers so they could monitor threads and at least somehow mark ideas they found meaningful so people would know what should be discussed further or not. Not just @Leinfors solo :)
 
Re-Logic definetely needs to hire or pick up more employers so they could monitor threads and at least somehow mark ideas they found meaningful so people would know what should be discussed further or not. Not just @Leinfors solo :)

I've read every suggestion in this thread and massive quantities of notes.

Even if there were more people handling this, we would not be making copious public lists of things, because this clashes with the approval system I have to go through. There's no point showing every single idea I've written down, because they aren't set in stone for quite some time.
 
I've read every suggestion in this thread and massive quantities of notes.

Even if there were more people handling this, we would not be making copious public lists of things, because this clashes with the approval system I have to go through. There's no point showing every single idea I've written down, because they aren't set in stone for quite some time.
Can the concept of a weapon be talked and "changed" with suggestions?, as i said, like the bats from the Sanguine Staff into Blood Squids from Dreadnautilus

Or is the feedback just about balance?
 
Can the concept of a weapon be talked and "changed" with suggestions?, as i said, like the bats from the Sanguine Staff into Blood Squids from Dreadnautilus

Or is the feedback just about balance?
It's just balance; things that are easily doable, so to speak.
In regards to what you're asking, I don't think we've ever had a total item makeover since the Orb of Light turning into a Shadow Orb back in 1.2. Good times.
Besides, as much as I love squids, bats are freakin' epic.
 
It's just balance; things that are easily doable, so to speak.
In regards to what you're asking, I don't think we've ever had a total item makeover since the Orb of Light turning into a Shadow Orb back in 1.2. Good times.
Besides, as much as I love squids, bats are freakin' epic.
I'd say the same, if it wasn't for there already being a Bat Scepter, but I guess they're really different for class reasons!

Although I really would like to have a squid summon in some way!
 
Since Ore Swords are inherently 'bad' in Hardmode and buffing them too much would break progression, what if they had non-damage benefits?

Specifically, what if hardmode close-range melee weapons could 'parry', meaning that they either:
*Provided a small defense boost when held (like Brand of the Inferno's +20 defense when right-clicking, except that it works even when not clicking),
*Provided a small chance not to be hit (like Tabi), or
*Provided a small amount of damage reduction (like worm scarf).

Whichever bonus it would be would be small (+5 defense, or 1/20 dodge chance, or 3-5% damage reduction), but would reward 'true melee' gameplay. Weapons with this buff would include:
-Ore swords
-Cutlass (?)
-Sleepy Octopod
-Keybrand
-Excalibur
-Ore spears, Obsidian Swordfish, gungnir and ghastly glaive (?)
-Ham bat (could scale with food buffs)
-Phasesabers (unless given other mechanics)
-Jousting lances

but not Fetid Baghnakhs or psycho knife, which are 'offense-oriented'.

I'm suggesting these stats because adding an effect like this is relatively easy to code, and since it only works when held it couldn't be 'stacked' multiple times, and in any case Brand of the Inferno has a similar effect that no one uses so it doesn't seem like this could be used to 'cheese' bosses through too much defense.

Edit: Also, just noticed more 'rarity' changes: Anchor, Format C and Gradient should all be Light Red, as they are hardmode exclusives, not Orange, which is pre-hardmode.
 
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Can the concept of a weapon be talked and "changed" with suggestions?, as i said, like the bats from the Sanguine Staff into Blood Squids from Dreadnautilus

Or is the feedback just about balance?

In theory? Yes, that is possible, though it is greatly out of scope. If there is very good cause to do so, as the time investment for whole resprites (and probably design changes, since this behavior would be much different from Bats) would be substantial compared to a simple stat change.

But even if it were in scope, I see no reason to make this particular change. It's a rather substantial time investment for a purely subjective preference change, coming at the expense of anyone who likes the Bats in the first place. As it stands, I love the Bats personally, and I would be against such a change directly on principle.
 
Not quite a balance change but more like a QoL change: would it be possible to bring back the key molds and have biome keys be crafted from molds and ectoplasm, so that they are now usable at any time? It's really annoying that for instance if I generate a new world so I can get the biome weapon for the opposite world evil, I have to kill like 6 bosses just to unlock one chest.
 
Not quite a balance change but more like a QoL change: would it be possible to bring back the key molds and have biome keys be crafted from molds and ectoplasm, so that they are now usable at any time? It's really annoying that for instance if I generate a new world so I can get the biome weapon for the opposite world evil, I have to kill like 6 bosses just to unlock one chest.
You missed mentioning this but only being able to craft the key in your world won't solve your issue, the dungeons only contain 1 evil biome chest, even with the key you still need to go in another world and fight 6 bosses again. I guess you intended to say both evil biome chests being able to spawn in the dungeon again.
Either way, I'm neutral on this.
 
Not quite a balance change but more like a QoL change: would it be possible to bring back the key molds and have biome keys be crafted from molds and ectoplasm, so that they are now usable at any time? It's really annoying that for instance if I generate a new world so I can get the biome weapon for the opposite world evil, I have to kill like 6 bosses just to unlock one chest.

Im neutral to the biome key mold thing, but I am curious as to why they were removed back then. Dont really think the reason was ever revealed?
 
You missed mentioning this but only being able to craft the key in your world won't solve your issue, the dungeons only contain 1 evil biome chest, even with the key you still need to go in another world and fight 6 bosses again. I guess you intended to say both evil biome chests being able to spawn in the dungeon again.
Either way, I'm neutral on this.
I don't understand what you mean. I want to remove the requirement that Plantera be specifically defeated in a world for the biome keys to work in that world, since fighting Plantera requires fighting a bunch of other bosses beforehand and waiting for bulbs to spawn. Instead, keys would be crafted with ectoplasm so they are still post-Plantera, but once obtained they can be used in any world with minimal hassle.
 
I don't understand what you mean. I want to remove the requirement that Plantera be specifically defeated in a world for the biome keys to work in that world, since fighting Plantera requires fighting a bunch of other bosses beforehand and waiting for bulbs to spawn. Instead, keys would be crafted with ectoplasm so they are still post-Plantera, but once obtained they can be used in any world with minimal hassle.
Oh that's what you ment, being able to use the keys pre-Plantera. You want to get the opposite evil key and use it instantly in another world. But why suggest that, when you can suggest the opposite evil biome chest spawning in every world?
Creating a new world, waiting for night to kill Skeletron, all so you just to open 1 chest is a hassle in itself. It doesn't really solve much, but it's fine.
 
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Since the world can have both types of evil biomes in Hardmode, can a dungeon contain both evil chests?
 
Oh that's what you ment, being able to use the keys pre-Plantera. You want to get the opposite evil key and use it instantly in another world. But why suggest that, when you can suggest the opposite evil biome chest spawning in every world?
Creating a new world, waiting for night to kill Skeletron, all so you just to open 1 chest is a hassle in itself. It doesn't really solve much, but it's fine.
Well, it also feels more natural than "this key has been cursed by a powerful jungle creature".

Plus, maybe this is just me, but I like to harvest and use the biome chests themselves since they look neat, and it's a pain to get multiples.
 
I don't understand what you mean. I want to remove the requirement that Plantera be specifically defeated in a world for the biome keys to work in that world, since fighting Plantera requires fighting a bunch of other bosses beforehand and waiting for bulbs to spawn. Instead, keys would be crafted with ectoplasm so they are still post-Plantera, but once obtained they can be used in any world with minimal hassle.
Another possible option (and one that might be more within this update's more limited scope) is that, instead of re-adding the biome key molds, what if the keys just don't drop at all until Plantera has been defeated? And maybe their drop rates could be increased slightly to compensate for the new boss requirement.
There should be a way to craft the biome chests by using the keys so you can have multiple of those chests from a single world.
Something like this: e.g. 1 biome key, 1 wooden chest, 5 ectoplasm, and maybe the mechanical souls.
It would made the extra keys you get not useless + the chests look cool.
Honestly, the requirement of a biome key- or any progression-based material in general, like souls- might not even be necessary. Extra biome chests would just be a decorative thing, so being able to craft them early wouldn't really break progression at all. Here's some theoretical recipes I came up with:
Ice Chest: Boreal Wood Chest + 20 Ice Blocks
Jungle Chest: Rich Mahogany Chest + 5 Vines
Corruption Chest: Ebonwood Chest + 20 Ebonstone
Crimson Chest: Shadewood Chest + 20 Crimstone
Hallowed Chest: Pearlwood Chest + 20 Pixie Dust
Desert Chest: Palm Wood Chest + 20 Sandstone
These recipes are intended to be relatively inexpensive, making them good for decorations. The materials for the chests are meant to resemble the color schemes of the biome chests themselves
 
I believe that most of the feedback fitting with what I've been looking for has started to slow down, so I think I'm going to set a new closing date for this thread, tentatively set for the 30th. I have a LOT of stuff on my plate already, enough to keep me quite busy.

I've divided most of the feedback into 2 Phases; Phase 1 was an initial batch of things for me to get approved, so that I could begin working on them while additional feedback continued to accumulate for a "Phase 2" approval pass. Phase 1 has already gotten most of its approval/deny sign-offs already, and is well underway for implementation (over 100 changes are already approved).

Over the next week or so, I'll be compiling the remaining feedback into Phase 2 for processing, which will get another approve/deny sign-off from Red and Cenx, and then we will be implementing all of those changes.

I am open to the idea of sharing the upcoming decided changes AFTER they are all approved/implemented, because sometimes sitting down and actually evaluating a list of changes can shake some new perspectives free. However, I cannot promise this at this time, it will need to be approved by Red and Cenx. Furthermore, some changes are internal only and may not have permission to share even if the overarching list is shared. So that's something I'll be thinking about in the coming weeks as well. I may re-open the thread purely from a "evaluate the changes coming" approach.

Another possible option (and one that might be more within this update's more limited scope) is that, instead of re-adding the biome key molds, what if the keys just don't drop at all until Plantera has been defeated? And maybe their drop rates could be increased slightly to compensate for the new boss requirement.

I think this would be a poorly received change. The post-Plantera segment of the game moves fairly fast, with a lot less time spent in the matching biomes (Corrupt, Hallow, Ice, etc) than is spend in the earlier sections of Hardmode. Given that the Hardmode Dungeon chest items are generally powerful but NOT meant to be end-game viable, this would significantly limit their window of obtainment, even if we boosted the key drop rate.

I do not see re-implementing Keymolds being a thing we will be doing.
 
Equipment made from mineable materials like metal bars is usually inferior to what you can obtain from bosses and rare drops. I don't see anything inherently wrong with this, but I think it would be appropriate to reduce the amount of materials needed to craft them so they won't be seen as a total waste. I recommend reducing the crafting costs of the following items:

-all pre-Hardmode metal armors
-Hardmode metal swords and spears (up to Chlorophyte)
-Phasesabers

I also recommend changing Chik to be crafted at an Iron/Lead Anvil instead of a Mythril/Orichalcum Anvil. Hel-Fire and Amarok are statistically superior yoyos that are usually obtained earlier, and by the time you have a Mythril/Orichalcum Anvil, you will have unlocked access to weapons a lot better than Chik.
 
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