Lucky or Menacing?

Which is better?

  • Lucky. Duh!

  • Menacing, you fool!

  • I use whichever one I get.

  • I use something else entirely.


Results are only viewable after voting.
There's really no time limit for an on-topic post - there isn't a rule about 'necro-ing' a thread on this forum. It's only when a thread is revived with something off-topic that it's an issue, but then that's an issue everywhere, even on newer threads. In those cases, it's best to 'report and move on', and let the staff judge it on its merits.

Some discussions lapse and get revived with new ideas, that's always welcome.
 
We could also argue that Menacing is better because summons. Even if you're not running a summoning set-up, you still probably have one or two summons out.
 
There's really no time limit for an on-topic post - there isn't a rule about 'necro-ing' a thread on this forum. It's only when a thread is revived with something off-topic that it's an issue, but then that's an issue everywhere, even on newer threads. In those cases, it's best to 'report and move on', and let the staff judge it on its merits.

Some discussions lapse and get revived with new ideas, that's always welcome.
I must have forgotten how things were here after so long
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Thanks a lot
 
I'm more of a menacing kind of guy because it increases the raw damage output, as lucky just increases your chance of a huge damage output.
 
We could also argue that Menacing is better because summons. Even if you're not running a summoning set-up, you still probably have one or two summons out.
For all five of the seconds you're summoning, sure. The only situations you really don't have time to swap on menacing copies of your accessories to swap to warding/lucky copies of your accessories are if you die in the middle of an event or big boss while playing with friends. and with expert mode respawn timers on boss death you may as well just go make a sandwich while waiting because the boss or event could just end in the meantime.

Like, ultimately, it doesn't really matter in the long run since the difference isn't that huge, and you can use whatever you want, but I personally think that bringing up summoning in a lucky vs menacing debate really isn't relevant because summons can't land critical hits. That's like saying that a spoon is better for eating cereal than a knife.
 
For all five of the seconds you're summoning, sure. The only situations you really don't have time to swap on menacing copies of your accessories to swap to warding/lucky copies of your accessories are if you die in the middle of an event or big boss while playing with friends. and with expert mode respawn timers on boss death you may as well just go make a sandwich while waiting because the boss or event could just end in the meantime.

Like, ultimately, it doesn't really matter in the long run since the difference isn't that huge, and you can use whatever you want, but I personally think that bringing up summoning in a lucky vs menacing debate really isn't relevant because summons can't land critical hits. That's like saying that a spoon is better for eating cereal than a knife.
My comment was made assuming minion damage updates dynamically with damage boosting accessories. Since this doesn't seem to be the case, according to my research, I hereby retract my previous statement.
 
Random will always be random, the only way things get less random is through large amounts of time. However the results could always be different, making lucky a gift and a curse. Statistics can only prove numbers that can be measured, random chance can only have assumed variables which make complex equation based on numbers you assume are accurate.
This thread is years old, you shouldn't have replied. But before a moderator comes I'll just quickly explain that while yes, random events are random (and sometimes the chances will benefit you and sometimes they won't), the study of probability says how random events spread over a large sample size will always tend towards a very set average result. Thus, over time, you will find that a greater critical hit chance will make you deal greater damage, on average.
 
As the name "lucky" implies, the results may differ; for example, let's just say I got my critical chance up to 50%, and I strike an enemy 5 times. You cannot say that it is impossible for me to flip 5 coins and have them all land on tails (or in this case getting no critical hits) though I will admit that it is far more likely for you to get 2 or 3 critical at 50% chance out of 5 hits, but the situation of getting none or even all 5 is still a relivent scenario.
 
As the name "lucky" implies, the results may differ; for example, let's just say I got my critical chance up to 50%, and I strike an enemy 5 times.

That's not really true with how rapidly you can attack in Terraria. I've done testing myself on this, and lucky is actually more consistent damage than menacing is.

With high enough crit, your damage is consistent, it doesn't fluctuate at all. You have higher lows, but lower highs - you're at the mercy of damage variance and your weapon having enough attack to not worry about the target's defense. A full Menacing setup with minimal crit from armor sets and buffs, however, has wild variance - your lows are lower, but your highs are also higher. It could take you anywhere from 4 less projectiles to defeat a boss to 5 more projectiles, but over a long and sustained period, they even out.

To quote an older post of mine:

Lucky provides more consistent damage, while Menacing provides potentially higher damage in bursts at the cost of potentially lower damage as well. Over long periods, they even out.

I did tests in 1.2.4 with Shroomite and Snowman Cannon rounds. Lucky would take a consistent 37 to 38 rounds to defeat Spazmatism while Menacing would take anywhere from 34 to 41 rounds, but my field testing was considered "flawed" because it wasn't exactly matching up with projected graphs. However, now with stuff like Vortex and SDMG full Menacing is better if you keep up crit potions because you can hit nearly 100% crit rate in normal mode while still investing Menacing which is hilarious.

Ultimately, though, it just doesn't matter. The difference is so ludicrously small that you don't really suffer too much from building either setup.

e: i found my old notes. you may view them here, but keep in mind this was for 1.2.4.

full shroomite
unreal snowman cannon
rocket 3

hoverboard
destroyer emblem
sniper scope
avenger emblem
ranger emblem

well fed
wrath
rage

my metric is "rocket 3s rounds it takes to kill spazmatism"

with lucky
208+128 ranged damage @ 94% crit rate:
39
39
38
40
39
38
38

Avg: 38.714285714285714285714285714286


with menacing
225+140 ranged damage @ 74% crit rate:
36
42
39
39
37
39
42

Avg: 39.142857142857142857142857142857

Rapid Chain Gun @ Chloro
Lucky
122
120
124

Menacing
130
132
 
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I agree that lucky can be more helpful than menacing, and attack speed is crucial, but not relivent to the question. Not saying that I know what the perfect combination is. All I was trying to do was make the point that everyone who was trying to determine the answer was simply waisting their time considering the fact of the unknown variable of random chance cannot be assumed.
That's not really true with how rapidly you can attack in Terraria. I've done testing myself on this, and lucky is actually more consistent damage than menacing is.

With high enough crit, your damage is consistent, it doesn't fluctuate at all. You have higher lows, but lower highs - you're at the mercy of damage variance and your weapon having enough attack to not worry about the target's defense. A full Menacing setup with minimal crit from armor sets and buffs, however, has wild variance - your lows are lower, but your highs are also higher. It could take you anywhere from 4 less projectiles to defeat a boss to 5 more projectiles, but over a long and sustained period, they even out.

To quote an older post of mine:



Ultimately, though, it just doesn't matter. The difference is so ludicrously small that you don't really suffer too much from building either setup.

e: i found my old notes. you may view them here, but keep in mind this was for 1.2.4.
 
This was debated between me and everyone I know who play the game. I want to know what YOU think.

Im of the belief that at high-profile battles with endgame gear, it is all about Menacing.

Inspired by a conversation between myself and Nike Leon.
I say that lucky is better cause it doubles your dps
 
I want to maximize DPS. I want the best total numbers over something like the Pumpkin Moon event.
Then lucky is mathematically proven that it’s better than menacing for melee and mage but summoner na don’t do crits and I’m not sure for ranger my class
 
I prefer lucky, If you have more critical strike chance, you kill bosses quicker and when you kill bosses quicker, you get all the loot and if you get all the loot, you use it to your advantage and if you use it to your advantage, you kill even more bosses quicker and when you kill even more bosses quicker... you get the point.
 
There is a lot of math floating around in this thread to help sort out whether full Menacing set or Lucky set is better, but I still have questions. I'm not here to defend one side or the other. I searched this up trying to decide which is better for my full ranger-playthrough attempt, but I need further clarification.

Someone had mentioned that the crit only fires the double damage after calculating the enemy's armor/defense. But I'm confused about that part, even if Menacing adds total damage before calculating enemy armor; doesn't that mean that the damage will only be a portion of the percent you earned from the accessories anyways?

I'm thinking of when you take on The Guardian (bonus boss I know, but still, he's got the most armor in vanilla).
When you are fighting him, it doesn't matter how much damage your weapons can do, he has so much armor that you can only do 1hp damage per hit. But when you crit, you do the 2hp instead. So when going up against him, it's best to have all the critical hit-chance you can muster, and a really fast weapon (in my case a gun like the vortex beater). Wouldn't something similar happen with other bosses/enemies with a lot of armor?


PS: Yes... I know it's been years since there's been activity on this thread, and I'm sorry about that. Think about it though, which is better... reviving an old thread with all the relevant data already in there, or double/triple posting a duplicate question, where people might have to hunt for data again?
 
As Tunnel King stated at the top of this page, you don't have to worry about reviving a topic, as long as you're on-topic (and you are). :merchantwink:

I wouldn't use the Guardian as an example for anything. It really is an oddball, and the only obvious example of Lucky being better than Menacing.
 
Well, crit has an obvious cap; damage bonus does not. So I usually go Lucky to cap, if possible, then damage bonus. It helps that, usually, no matter what you do, you're going to end up with some damage bonus anyways, like from armor and accessories.
Edit: whoops, didn't realize the first portion of this conversation started before some current kindergarteners were born.
 
I've been thinking about it for a couple hours, and mulling it over in my head. I'm going to now agree that the mix of the two accessory styles is the best (depending on what your armor and/or guns add for crit-chance before accessories are calculated in). But with the following caveat...
IF you want to do all one type of accessory... Menacing seems to me more consistent damage (possibly higher overall). But Lucky seems to be the more entertaining and/or fun way to go, with potential for high payout, but a chance for less depending on RNG.

As much fun as more damage is, you need to be good at dodging around and avoiding damage to make use of either of these stat-boosts though. So we should probably admit that Warding is still best for someone who just wants to beat the game, and work towards the achievements. But hey, if you want to go through again and feel just a bit more heavily armed, that's what this whole discussion is about. LOL

I still don't quite know how damage and crits calculate against mob-armor-ratings and stuff. I would certainly appreciate more details on that, even if it's just a link to ALL the science ;) . But at least everyone has helped me decide the best route to go with my Ranger, for now. I'm going to go with Lucky all the way until I get my first set of Ranger-Specific armor. Then I'll re-assess accordingly and probably try to do the whole "get the percentages as close as possible" thing that someone mentioned way earlier in the thread. That should be easier to do once I get that 6th accessory slot. LOL (again)
 
As much fun as more damage is, you need to be good at dodging around and avoiding damage to make use of either of these stat-boosts though. So we should probably admit that Warding is still best for someone who just wants to beat the game, and work towards the achievements. But hey, if you want to go through again and feel just a bit more heavily armed, that's what this whole discussion is about. LOL
Well let's look at that;

On Expert mode warding on all 6 accessories grants and extra 24 defence, and 3/4 of that is 18, so 18 damage reduction.

Now the Worm scarf provides a flat out 17% damage reduction, so let's see how much damage would need to be deal for 18 damage to be reduced:

18/0.17= 105.8 rounded to 106.

So if an attack deals at least 106 damage then the Worm scarf is more effective, and in Expert all hardmode mobs deals way more than 100, even early hardmode mobs can deal upwards of 160.

So you could just use the worm scarf and not worry about warding.

Now back to Menacing and Lucky, I generally go for lucky but if I get Meancing first then I will stick with that.

I do believe Lucky is better for enemies with high defence and for lower damage weapons, let's look at Mille Marteaux's test;

The Spazmatism only has 20/28 defence, which means only 10/14 damage is reduced and when using the Snowman cannon those values are miniscule so both results were very close, but when tested with the chain gun which has a far lower base damage we saw that Lucky came out on top.

So in the end a mix of both is probably better, and it's not worth spending 2 platinum trying to reforge one to the other, if you only use fast firing low(ish) damage weapon then Lucky is the way to go, but if you use slower higher damaging weapons then Menacing might serve you better.
 
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