Items Make Ichor decrease enemy's defense by 20 again

[Magician]

Terraria 1.4.1 nerfed the Ichor debuff from decreasing enemy's defense by 20 to 15:

First of all, what was the point on nerfing it? Don't tell me it was to balance Ichor and Cursed Flames because that would be a very poor way of doing it, if that's the case why not just buff the flames?

I don't really see a point on the nerf since personally I never heard people saying it was "too OP" or that "it deserved a nerf" or anything. It was just a solid way to deal 10/15/20 more damage to an enemy or a boss, not OP at all.

 

[dekay1278]

ikr

 

[whoneedsnamestbh]

It was to balance it with Cursed Flames, but both Ichor was nerfed and Cursed Flames was buffed, and ichor deserved the nerf anyway.

Look at 1.3 Cursed Flames. It literally dealt 6 damage per second to enemy targets. Ichor was a flat damage increase of 10. To compare that, in order for Cursed Flames to make a difference on your DPS larger than what Ichor can offer, you’d have to attack quite a bit less than once per second, which would literally never happen in any scenario. On top of that, literally even Frostburn had a stronger DoT debuff than cursed flames.

1.4.1 Cursed Flames is 24 damage per second, and Ichor is a flat base damage of 7-8. If you’re attacking three times per second or more, Ichor is better. Which is still the majority of viable weapons - and almost any build if you use minions on the side.

And there’d be some problems with just buffing Cursed Flames even further. One, Cursed Flames needs to not outclass Venom, a debuff which comes later. And two, you shouldn’t be able to completely finish off an enemy after hitting them once. That’s the issue with DoT debuffs - you have to draw a line on them

And Ichor *was* notoriously overpowered, to the point that you would (and this still is the case) use it into the endgame, and definitely deserved a nerf. It was the single largest selling point of Crimson over even Vampire Knives I can’t think of a single other debuff that’s being used for such a long period of time, let alone with such a massive effect on your DPS on Ichor.

If you don’t think the effect was that big, look at Megashark - it hits about 8.5 times per second for roughly 32 base damage with Musket Balls - about 272 DPS. Add *another 10* from ichor, applied by a melee weapon with an ichor flask, a bow with ichor arrows or a golden shower, suddenly your DPS is 357. That’s a bigger percentage damage increase than any accessory, or armor piece, or DoT debuff not caused by pillar weapons. This same situation applies with anything that attacks reasonably fast - so basically the majority of good weapons.

Anyway, now that Ichor and Cursed Flames are closer, they both have a valid role. Ichor is still a huge boost to single target DPS while Cursed Flames can deal somewhat smaller damage but can effect targets you aren’t actively hitting, including crowds.

TLDR it was perfectly reasonable to nerf ichor.

 

[qwerty3.14]

Honestly... ichor need another nerf, like reduce it to -8 defense. Shark tooth necklace is considered one of the best accesories in pre hardmode and that's only 5 armor penetration, and it still finds some use in hardmode occasionally. The fact that ichor is basiclly free on a lot of builds means that it shouldn't be having a bigger impact than an accesory, and even after this its still going to get more use than cursed flames, 6 attacks per second is not hard to pull off.

Also why do ichor arrows get extra updates but not cursed?

Anyway, now that Ichor and Cursed Flames are closer, they both have a valid role. Ichor is still a huge boost to single target DPS while Cursed Flames can deal somewhat smaller damage but can effect targets you aren’t actively hitting, including crowds.

I feel that 'cursed flames can continue to damage to targets you aren't hitting' is about as relevant as tempest's contact damage. Most of the time you continue to attack something until that enemy is dead.

 

[whoneedsnamestbh]

I feel that 'cursed flames can continue to damage to targets you aren't hitting' is about as relevant as tempest's contact damage. Most of the time you continue to attack something until that enemy is dead.

It’s no Ichor, but it can be marginay helpful on occasion. Skeletron Prime avoids a lot of hits by both moving erratically and blocking them with his arms, which means that you’re not hitting him as often as you would usually. It can also be kind of helpful on enemies with low HP but erratic movement, notably Bats and Moss Hornets. It’s absolutely not as big of a deal as Ichor, but it’s not useless in comparison either.