Weapons & Equip Making the worst weapon type in the game viable + Helping Melee progression out a bit.

Do you agree with these changes?


  • Total voters
    28

J Bame

Terrarian
EDIT 23/06/2020: Looking back, i'm not sure if I like this idea anymore.


Right now, two of the problems with Terraria's game progression are that:

  • All pre Hardmode Boomerang weapons are the definition of useless, while Hardmode ones are just ok but outclassed.
  • Most pre Hardmode Melee weapons are unviable for bosses, while those that are tend to be worse than what the other classes get.

Have you ever opened a Golden Chest Underground hoping for some sick Hermes Boots or a Magic Mirror, only to be disappointed by an Enchanted Boomerang you will never use? Feels bad, and that's because you just got a terrible weapon that is only ever useful for killing annoying Bats or Granite Elementals, and it's not even good at that since if you miss the throw you are basically defenseless until it comes back. And did I mention that this is one of the best weapons for pure Melee Eye of Cthulhu, with other options being grindy (Rally) or requiring you to somewhat break progression (Amazon, Starfury)?

And the same is true for the rest of all Boomerangs, none of them are never worth using because they are all that awful. So, how do we fix this? With a new accessory, of course.

Kylie Glove
18% increased Melee Velocity.
Allows Boomerangs to be thrown successively.
Recipe: 6 Leather at a Loom. [Leather would now cost 2 Rotten Chunks/Vertebrae, otherwise this would be impossible to get in Crimson and a massive grindfest in Corruption]

You know what made the Possessed Hatchet go from useless to decent in 1.3? The successive throwing. This item would give all Boomerangs the same buff, without making it too easily obtained. And even if this is a big buff to Boomerangs, the fact that it requires evil biome materials means you would have to know what you are doing before getting it; 12 Rotten Chunks/Vertabrae aren't exactly easy to obtain. That extra Melee Velocity also gives Boomerangs a bit more "oomph" while also making it somewhat useful when not using them. This would also gives Leather a new use, because I legit had to Google what it is actually used for right now.

Q: How would this work with Light Discs or Bananarangs?

A: 1-Their unique stacking mechanic would be removed.
2- They would work the exact same way as they do now and this item changes nothing.

Q: How would this affect the Possessed Hatchet and Paladin's Hammer?

A: It wouldn't. They are already thrown in succession.

So, even if the Enchanted and Ice Boomerangs would suddenly become good Melee weapons against EoC now, but there are still problems to fix. First, Melee still doesn't have a lot to use against the Eater of Worlds and Brain of Cthulhu. And second, the next step in Boomerang progression is the Thorn Chakram, and having to sit with an Enchanted Boomerang as your best weapon until that point isn't fun. And third, your main weapon still comes from a Chest, and being forced to look for those just to get a passable weapon isn't too fun.

The solution to these problems is easy, adding some more Boomerangs.

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Silver/Tungsten Boomerang
(Sprites by @BluStryke)

10 (Silver)/11(Tungsten) Melee damage
4% Critical Strike Chance
Strong Knockback (7/8)
Very fast attack speed (15 use time)
10 Velocity
Recipe: 10 Silver/Tungsten at an Anvil.
An inbetween to the Wooden and the Enchanted Boomerangs that also gives Silver and Tungsten some more love.

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Soul Bouncer
(Sprite by @BluStryke)
19 Melee damage
4% Critical Strike Chance
Very Strong Knockback (9)
Very fast attack speed (15 use time)
15 Velocity
Recipe: 11 Demonite Bars at an Anvil.

A very fast Disc Boomerang with the ability to bounce off enemies and walls, think Shadowflame Knife mixed with Thorn Chrakram. That ricochet ability will work wonders on the Eater of Worlds underground.

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Spine Breaker
(Sprite by @BluStryke)
20 Melee damage
4% Critical Strike Chance
Strong Knockback (7.5)
Very fast attack speed (15 use time)
10 Velocity
Recipe: 11 Crimtane at an Anvil.

Instead of ricocheting, this Glaive will pierce through 2 enemies instead. Excellent for the Brain of Cthulhu, remember how Boomerangs pierce infinitely on the way back.

So there we have it. With the new Kylie Glove and these new Boomerangs, there are finally enough of them throughout the entirety of phm to call them a viable weapon type, and now Melee would have good weapons for almost every pHM Boss without relying on Yoyos for everything.

The keyword there is "Almost", because Wall of Flesh is still a problem.

If you ever try to beat Expert WOF as a Melee character, you will realize that your best strategy is to not try and beat Expert WOF as a Melee character. The only weapon that is even close to being viable is the Beekeeper, and that still requires you to exploit some of the Wall's attributes, such as it never despawning off screen, or the Hungries not going through blocks. And as cool as the Kylie Glove might be with the Flamarang, you are not going to break through the Hungries with that..

My proposed solution is simple: another buff to Boomerangs, but this time it's an indirect one by adding something to a certain Melee accessory that also needs some love.

Magma Stone
Melee weapons inflict On Fire!
Melee weapons now pierce two extra enemies.
You know how Boomerangs pierce infinitely on their way back? Well, trying to exploit that is much harder than it sounds, but with this change to the Magma Stone that won't be a problem. With the way the Wall of Flesh works, not only would the Flamarang easily break through the wall of Hungries, it would also be able hit it multiple times, since it would sit on its Eyes/Mouth for an acceptably long time.

This change would obviously carry over to the Fire Gauntlet, a very welcome change since currently it's one of the only accessory upgrades in the game that is worse than the component. There are quite a few mediocre melee weapons that would definitely love the extra pierce (Chain Guillotines, Golem Fist, Daybreak).


BONUS HARDMODE ROUND
Bananarangs
Drop rate increased to 50% from 3,3%
I don't think anyone has ever used this weapon in a normal run. Hell, I don't think anyone even has 10 of these.

Wilderness Hunting Kit
Minor increases to offensive stats [+6% Damage and Crit, +18% velocity, +7 armor penetration]
Allows Boomerangs to be thrown successively.
Enemies are less likely to target you.
Recipe: Kylie Glove + Shark Tooth Necklace + Putrid Scent.
Because no item should ever be left without a tinker.

Sanguinary Hive
Releases life stealing Blood Hornets and increases movement speed when damaged.
Defense increased by 7.
Enemies are more likely to target you.
Recipe: Flesh Knuckles + Sweetheart Necklace

Unrelated to the topic, but since the Putrid Scent is part of a new recipe it's only fair to give something to the Flesh Knuckles as well. Spawns 4-6 Blood Hornets, which won't deal much damage (30-35), but will heal a tiny bit (10% of dealt damage) if they hit.
Bionic Boomer Bonus points if you get the reference.
Allows you to simultaneously throw two different Boomerangs.
Boomerangs inflict Electrified [Represented by a sparking effect]
Sold by the Cyborg for 1 Platinum after the Martian Madness has been defeated.

Even if the Possessed Hatchet and the Paladin's Hammer are decent on their own, they get outclassed pretty quickly by other Post Golem melee weapons (Influx Waver, Eye of Cthulhu, Flairon). This item allows you to use both of them at once, something that not only implements Boomerangs to the Pre Pillar tier, it also gives Melee another solid endgame weapon. That 16 DOT does nothing at this point in the game, so think of that as a visual effect meant to trick your eyes into thinking they are dealing more damage than before. Cyborg really needs to sell something else.


So what do you think? Would this make you use Boomerangs more often? Does this change nothing and Boomerangs are still awful? Did I go overboard and make them broken? Let me know what you think.
 
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These are some great ideas!
Hmm, I can take this into account while making my Darkest Nights Mod...
I could implement the changes, and if it seems balanced I can let you know, or you can even try it out yourself when the mod is released
Do I have your permission to use you ideas for my mod? (I can give credit in the mod description)
 
Of course you can! I made the suggestion with the intention of seeing this in game, even in a mod. Just remember to give credits :)

I'll give you bonus points if you manage to come up with a better name than Thrower's Glove.
 
Awesome, I'll get to work on coding then!
Any particular vision as far as how you want things to look?

/Edit:
Just a warning, the code for auto-using other boomerangs in your inventory would be extremely complex, I may end up finding another solution
For example, allowing boomerangs to be swung melee-style with right click, so that there is some consequence to missing, but also an alternative to betting on chance
 
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This is pretty complicated for something ultimately small and the whole thing about spending extra inventory slots just for more downgraded throws of one pretty mundane weapon sounds a little awkward, I thought maybe it could work out better for the game if it simply was an accessory effect that upgrades all boomerang-type weapons to be able to have +X shots of itself active at once. (maybe also undo the Bananarang/LightDisc from stacking multiples so they all work the same like this now, but with Paladin Hammer and Possessed Hatchet staying unchanged and unaffected by/unrelated to any of this)
And the effect gets merged into something like melee gloves or yoyo accessory, so melee loadouts gain it as a free bonus. Could even have it give +1 or 2 throws initially but you upgrade it more over the game.
Maybe even tweak the number of natural throws of various boomerangs, so you have one that starts with a more-practical 2 and the accessory boosts it further than 2.

(with your stacking idea, if you were using the hatchet you probably want it for the homing, so throwing others on the same stream would come off wrong, and that thing probably really doesn't need a damage buff on straight throws if this would matter)
 
These changes and additions are all well thought-out! I like the Bionic Boomer in particular; the function is really useful, and it fits the reference really well!
EscenceNice.png

The Thrower's Glove is where my jive goes jiven't, though.
Empty air sandwhich kinda already stated the problem here: you're just gonna be making a bunch of weaker throws, which isn't tooooo much more damage unless you find, like, 3 more Enchanted Boomerangs. At that point, though, why the hell aren'tcha using something better, not to mention the inventory woes? Empty's idea of each Boomerang having its own amount of "throws at a time" is a lot cleaner, and, frankly, a lot more helpful (the 'rang-stacking removal is also a really good idea when you look at the Possessed Hatchet).

Oh yeah, if you're lookin' for a better name for the thing, how about "Kylie Glove"? Kylie boomerangs are used for hunting (which goes with the damage boost); however, they're not really intended to come back, which goes AGAINST the function of boomerangs in this game, but I'm still suggesting it since the name sounded nice and it was the first thing to come to my head.

Oh oh yeah, uh, I could try my hand at sprites for the Thrower's Glove and Bionic Boomer, if BluStryke isn't planning on handling those. Their ability seems a lot better than mine, though.
 
I think you underestimate how much damage the weaker Boomerangs can do with that 20% damage buff, but let's be real that idea was never any good. I edited the thread with all the feedback in mind:

The "Thrower's Glove" was, as I said, as good of an idea as its name was creative. It was overcomplicated, hard to code and bad for inventory management. Now it's the Kylie Glove (Thx Bry-ccentric), which simply gives all Boomerangs the autoswing ability and increases Melee Velocity instead of Damage to balance things out a bit.

I also changed the Colossus Glove to something more interesting and useful that also gives a partner to some non-material accessories.

It's funny, I didn't want to give autoswing to the Boomerangs at first because I thought it would make them overpowered, but nope, they are so bad right now that it would be balanced. Looking at it now, the preHardmode kit for Melee is so bad that any good weapon looks overpowered in comparison. Reminds me of when Yoyos first came out and everyone thought they were broken, when in reality all Melee weapons they were compared to were just awful.
 
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Some very nice ideas(I particularly like them as a predominantly melee player), though the Magma Stone buff might make the Vampire Knives too powerful. Thoughts?
 
That Magma Stone buff actually makes the Vamp Knives worse because of the way Piercing with multishot works.
 
Ah, that's right; I didn't take the pierce invincibility frame into account. I'd probably avoid using the Magma Gauntlet with the Vampire Knives at all costs.
 
Just allow players to stack 2 or 3 boomerangs for all phm boomerangs. They will still be worse than flails, but viable. Im suggesting this because it is easier to implement
 
Just allow players to stack 2 or 3 boomerangs for all phm boomerangs. They will still be worse than flails, but viable. Im suggesting this because it is easier to implement
Both ways would be easy to implement, as code for them both already exist in the game (Possessed Hatchet for original suggestion and Banarang for your suggestion), but the original is much more interesting and would be much better.
 
I agree with most suggestions!
However, I think that boomerangs are NOT useless in pre-Hardmode. Here's my attempt to prove that by doing a boomerang only playthrough in Master mode!

Part 1 (Wooden -> Enchanted -> Thorn Chakram) -
Part 2 (Flamarang + Skeletron, -> Combat Wrench + Queen Bee x5 easy farm) -
Part 3 (Combat Wrench + Flamarang vs Wall of Flesh) -

Wall of Flesh Master Mode kill
 
I think the fact that you had to prepare that much for each of those boss fights and that they still took an incredibly long time to complete proves that they need some serious buffs.

That is still incredible dedication, though. Congratulations, I didn't even think it was worth the try.
 
Hate to burst the bubble of the OP but prehardmode melee weapons were some of the best weapons against Brain of C and Eater of Worlds.

Arkhalis (when it was available), Falcon Blade, and Katana all with best modifiers made them a breeze. The sheer speed at which they hit plus the fact that they would hit numerous targets at once made them superior to most weapons during prehardmode. Might not be as viable on Master mode but back in the day during expert they worked great.

I do agree on the boomerangs though the whole miss things really makes them suck. With some practice the Enchanted Boomerang could hold you over for a while until something better came along (isn't this a common theme in Terraria?)
 
I think the fact that you had to prepare that much for each of those boss fights and that they still took an incredibly long time to complete proves that they need some serious buffs.

That is still incredible dedication, though. Congratulations, I didn't even think it was worth the try.

Yes, totally agree, boomerangs need some love. If the combat wrench was available pre-bosses and then another upgrade was possible before WoF, things would look much better. I'm all for stackable boomerangs across the board. Though, if you check my Queen Bee fights, they were pretty quick even in Master mode. Combat wrench is pretty strong, among the strongest melee weapons prehardmode. The relatively low base damage is more than balanced by mild piercing and 50% higher speed than that of Flamarang. It easily deals 200-300 dps to multiple targets similar to Space Gun.
 
Yes, totally agree, boomerangs need some love. If the combat wrench was available pre-bosses and then another upgrade was possible before WoF, things would look much better. I'm all for stackable boomerangs across the board. Though, if you check my Queen Bee fights, they were pretty quick even in Master mode. Combat wrench is pretty strong, among the strongest melee weapons prehardmode. The relatively low base damage is more than balanced by mild piercing and 50% higher speed than that of Flamarang. It easily deals 200-300 dps to multiple targets similar to Space Gun.
Yeah I used the combat wrench in my first master mode playthrough, it wasn't bad but I was not insane enough to use it against WoF. Still by far the best pre hardmode boomerang.
 
So looking at this video it seems one of the Combat wrench's advantageous traits which helps it out other than its piercing ability it seems another angle of approach would perhaps be to generally increase boomerang speed? Interesting well this will suck for the mechanic but I think I might need this for my collection. :p
 
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