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Meliorating Debuffs + Debuff Interactions

Bry-ccentric

Steampunker
Well, I sure didn't expect to be back with a suggestion again. This particular topic's been left untouched for a bit too long, though, I think.

Debuffs.
I'm sure everyone's noticed it at this point: Damage over Time (DoT) debuffs (*COUGH* Cursed Inferno) just kinda really suck. I've sure noticed it; kinda hard NOT to, with people mentioning the fact whenever they're brought up, not to mention the suggestions ALREADY made over them.
...Only after seeing several people mention it, though, did I actually realize how bad they were. Every message I saw afterwards just bolstered my confidence in the fact. A lot of their descriptions also kinda suck,.
So here I am, attempting to remedy this problem (yeah, that's what "meliorate" means, for the people who aren't dictionaries).

Damage Over Time Debuffs
These are primarily the ones that suck, since they're all designed specifically for the player. We tend to be a little more durable than the enemies (given that you don't suck), so this guaranteed bonus damage is actually dangerous to us. The ENEMIES usually take damage a lot faster, though (given that you don't suck), meaning the debuff will get, like, 10 damage in before the enemy just kinda dies. This makes DoT debuffs virtually USELESS against them, so I'm going to be suggesting new effects for all of the damage-tickers!
But WAIT, there's more!
I'll also be adding and changing some debuff descriptions, since some of 'em really need it, and I'll even throw in a NEW DoT debuff in the form of an altered pre-existing debuff: Bleeding!
If you want, leave me some feedback on my ideas. I might've made some things a little too strong (or weak), who knows?
I sure don't.
Debuff​
Previous Effects​
Previous Tooltip​
New Effects​
New Tooltip​
Bleeding
Halts natural health regeneration.
Read the rest of this column, and you'll see a problem.
Cannot regenerate lifeMinimum DPS is 4; max is 800.
DPS increases when target is hit, by a third of the attack's base damage.
DPS automatically decreases by 25% of the added DPS.
Halts natural health regeneration.
Losing blood fast; cannot regenerate life.
Poisoned
-2 health per second.
Halts natural health regeneration.
Slowly losing life-0.5% HP/s; scales to -1.5% HP over 5 seconds. Minimum DPS of 2; max of 250
Reduces natural health regeneration by 40%.
Absorbing toxins.
On Fire!
-4 health per second.
Halts natural health regeneration.
Can be put out with water.
Slowly losing life-4 health per second; damage increases by 1 for every second of infliction, up to 16 DPS.
200% damage against slime, plants, and cold enemies.
Can be put out with water.
Burning alive.
Venom
-6 health per second.
Halts natural health regeneration.
Losing life-1% HP/s. Minimum DPS of 6, max of 500 damage per second.
Reduces natural health regeneration by 60%.
Injected with toxins.
Cursed Inferno
-6 health per second.
Halts natural health regeneration.
Losing life-24 health per second; damage increases by 1 for every second of infliction, up to 36 DPS.
160% damage against slime, plants, and cold enemies.
Immune to water.
Water won't save you from these flames.
Electrified
-4 health per second; moving quadruples damage.
Halts natural health regeneration.
Cannot move-4 heath per second; moving quadruples damage.
Water further quadruples damage.
Enemies take 400% damage.
Don't move, or you'll build up static electricity!
Burning
-50 health per second.
Deals some nasty movement speed reduction.
Losing life and slow movement-50 health per second.
Pauses other fire debuffs' timers.
300% damage against slime, plants, and cold enemies.
Still deals some nasty movement speed reduction.
You're melting onto the surface!
Frostburn
-8 health per second.
No natural health regeneration.
It's either really hot, or really cold, but it REALLY hurts-22 health per second; damage decreases by 2 every second, down to 6 DPS.
130% damage damage against slime and plants; 0% damage against cold enemies.
Water makes it worse, tripling its damage and duration.
It's either really hot, or really cold, but either way, it REALLY hurts. (I really love this debuff's tooltip, by the way.)
/
Oiled
On Fire!, Frostburn, Cursed Inferno and Shadowflame each deal 2 extra damage per tick when inflicted at the same time. All debuffs tick as one.Taking more damage from being on fireDoubles damage of On Fire!, Frostburn, Cursed Inferno, Shadowflame, Burning and Daybroken. Each debuff still ticks individually.
Each individual fire debuff inflicted decreases Oiled's durationby 10%.
Target gains a yellow tint.
Avoid fire at ALL costs./The oil strengthens the fires!
Shadowflame
-15 health per second.
No natural health regeneration.
Losing life-36 health per second.
Applies an Obstructed-like effect to the screen, but inversed: the center is black, which slowly fades outwards into an increasingly transparent dark purple.
140% damage against slime, plants, and cold enemies; 240% damage against Hallow enemies.
The flames burn so hot, yet so dark...
Penetrated
-3 health per second per Javelin stuck in the enemy, up to -18 DPS.Losing life-6 HP/s per javelin stuck in the enemy, up to -36 HP/s (6 javelins).Impaled by javelins.
Daybroken
-100 health per second per Daybreak stuck in the enemy, up to -800 DPS.Incenerated by solar rays (10/10 typo)-125 HP/s per javelin stuck in the enemy, up to -1000 HP/s (8 javelins).Being incinerated by solar rays.
Celled
-10 health per second per mini-cell stuck in the enemy; damage caps at 100 DPS.Being eaten by cells-0.3% HP/s per cell, up to -6% HP/s (20 cells).Your cells are trying to fight off star cells. It doesn't look like yours are winning.
Dryad's Bane
-2 health per second; first-time boss defeats increases damage, up to 10 DPS with every boss defeated (or 16, in Expert Mode ).'The power of nature compels you'6 DPS. Defeating bosses increases the debuff's damage.
King Slime and Queen Bee+1.5 each (9)
Eye of Cthulhu and Skeletron+3 each (15)
Eater of Worlds/Brain of Cthulhu+4 (19)
Wall of Flesh+8 (27)
Mechanical Bosses+3 each (36)
Plantera+5 (41)
Golem+7 (48)
Duke Fishron+10%
Lunatic Cultist+12 (60)
The power of Nature compels you!

Debuff Icons!
As you were looking at the table, I'm sure you noticed the new debuff icons I made.
I'm happy to say that every debuff is ALSO getting a makeover! While not all of them are getting completely new icons, they all WILL be adorned with new frames!

I thought about having the frame match the new Map borders, but I think I'm gonna leave that up to Redigit. Anyways...​
I'll be listing all of the debuffs and their new icons in the order they appear in the Debuffs page on the wiki, left to right, so if you're familiar with that list, you'll know what to expect here.
Bleeding​
Poison​
On Fire!​
Venom​
Darkness​
Blackout​
Silenced​
Cursed​
Confused​
Slow​
Oozed​
Weak​
Broken Armor​
Withered Armor​
Withered Weapon​
Horrified​
The Tongue​
Cursed Inferno​
Ichor​
Chilled​
Frozen​
Wet​
Webbed​
Stoned​
Distorted​
Obstructed​
Electrified​
Feral Bite​
Moon Bite​
Mana Sickness​
Potion Sickness​
Chaos State​
Suffocation​
Burning​
Tipsy​
Stinky​
Water Candle​
Mighty Wind​
Creative Shock​
Frostburn​
Midas​
Oiled​
Stunned​
Slimed​
Shadowflame​
Betsy's Curse​
Penetrated​
Daybroken​
Celled​
Dryad's Bane​
Dazed​
Sugar Rush​

Interactions between Debuffs!
Yeah, this always bugged me when it came to stuff like Wet and On Fire!, but besides that, I think having certain debuffs interact would help to make them more interesting. It'd certainly make things more strategic, when it comes to you inflicting them.
I'm gonna knock out the obvious stuff like Wet with On Fire!, but I'm also gonna throw in some different stuff like Ichor with Bleeding, so expect the unexpected.
DebuffInteraction
Poisoned
If Poisoned is inflicted while Bleeding is active, it immediately reaches full damage.
Ichor
If Ichor is inflicted while Bleeding is active, -20% max health until Ichor wears off.
Weak, Penetrated and Celled
Bleeding doubles the debuffs' effects while it's active.
Feral Bite
If Feral Bite is inflicted while active, all possible debuffs it can inflict will be active at once until it wears off.
Moon Bite
Moon Leech Clots have doubled health and heal twice as much to the Moon Lord.
Debuff​
Interaction​
Wet, Bleeding, and cold debuffs​
Burning immediately removes the debuff.
If you're wondering about Bleeding: cauterization.​
Debuff​
Interaction​
Fire debuffs​
Doubles the fires' damage.
Each fire inflicted decreases Oiled's duration by 10%.​
Electrified​
The electricity ignites the oil, inflicting On Fire!​
Debuff​
Interaction​
Eachother​
Both debuffs' max damage increase by 20%.​
Moon Bite​
The Moon Lord sucks up the toxins from your system, transferring the debuffs from you to him.​
Debuff​
Interaction​
Fire debuffs​
Triples the fires' damage.
Each inflicted fire debuff decreases Slimed's duration by 10%, plus an extra 2% each second for every fire debuff currently active.​
Debuff​
Interaction​
On Fire! and Shadowflame​
Douses the fire upon infliction, and lowers their damage by 60%​
Oiled, Oozed, Slimed and Ichor​
Wet washes off the gunk upon infliction, though they themselves can override Wet afterwards.​
Chilled​
Chilled's infliction chance from all sources rises up to 100%, and its slowdown and duration are amplified by 160%.​
Frozen​
Frozen's infliction chance and duration increase by 50%.​
Frostburn​
Frostburn's damage rate doubles.​
Electrified​
Electrified's damage rate quadruples.​
Mighty Wind​
Mighty Wind dries you off.​
Debuff​
Interaction​
Cursed Inferno​
Cursed Inferno's timer will pause until Cursed wears off.​
Silenced​
Mana regeneration is paused if both are inflicted at the same time.​
Betsy's Curse​
Armor bonuses are negated if both are inflicted at the same time.​

Well, that's that, then.
This is probably the first sane suggestion I've made, both in idea and scope. Gotta say, it's pretty relaxing (though the forum update sure made Tables the definition of pain and suffering).
Thanks for readin' through this; if you think something needs fixin', tell me!​
 
Last edited:

TheWorfer27

Retinazer

[/I]|-108 health per second. The screen is covered by a gradient that's a solid black at the edges and transitions to a much more transparent purple as it moves to the center of the screen, which hinders visiblity. 150% damage against slimy and cold enemies, and 250% damage against Hallow enemies.|The flames burn so hot, yet so dark...
I would like to remind you that 108 is a big number. A shadowflame doll could send a player from 600hp to 0.
 

Bry-ccentric

Steampunker
Aaaaaalright, I reached the main goal I had for my suggestion for once, so I'm happy. And proud.
Now that I'm done, I kinda wanna renovate the debuff icons that need it. I've done a few already, and it's fairly easy.
 

sharkman0101

Skeletron Prime
While these are good on paper for enemies, these are waaaay too powerful for use against the player. You must consider that these enemies have much larger health pools than us, and we only can have upwards of 400 or 500, given progression. Let us take into consideration your Cursed Flames buff. It does 24 damage per second, while only getting substantially stronger until it ends. Let us say that we get hit by a Clinger and procure the debuff on Expert. We would not only take the base hit of damage, but we would get this debuff for 14 seconds! If we do the math here, that means it would do 421 damage upon conclusion of the debuff. This isn't including the already present 68 damage attack(on expert) from the flames itself. So, in all, you would take 489 damage from a single hit! Wouldn't you think that is a bit too punishing? Even on normal mode it can seem a bit harsh. About 200 damage plus 44 damage from a single hit is way too punishing on the player, especially for a single hit and a debuff they cannot control if they do manage to get struck by the attack.

This is the exact problem with debuffs in this game. They are way too powerful for the player if given too much base damage and are not substantial against the enemy if given balanced stats for the player. As such, would there be a compromise for this issue? I cannot think of any at the top of my head, aside from making the debuffs percentage based rather than base damage. But, that also brings up the problem of higher health enemies compared to weaker ones. It would make the enemies that are naturally tougher more susceptible to such debuffs while making it a waste of time for enemies that are weaker. Perhaps they could only be percentage based for the explicitly fragile player, so that is consistent for players as it is to enemies with base damage? I do respect your efforts to bring light unto these usually forgotten conditions, but the current use they have will drastically change balance in the favor of the enemies using these debuffs. I'm not trying to say that we should not be concerned about effects of debuffs on us, but they shouldn't be doing well over 300 damage, should they?
 

Bry-ccentric

Steampunker
While these are good on paper for enemies, these are waaaay too powerful for use against the player. You must consider that these enemies have much larger health pools than us, and we only can have upwards of 400 or 500, given progression. Let us take into consideration your Cursed Flames buff. It does 24 damage per second, while only getting substantially stronger until it ends. Let us say that we get hit by a Clinger and procure the debuff on Expert. We would not only take the base hit of damage, but we would get this debuff for 14 seconds! If we do the math here, that means it would do 421 damage upon conclusion of the debuff. This isn't including the already present 68 damage attack(on expert) from the flames itself. So, in all, you would take 489 damage from a single hit! Wouldn't you think that is a bit too punishing? Even on normal mode it can seem a bit harsh. About 200 damage plus 44 damage from a single hit is way too punishing on the player, especially for a single hit and a debuff they cannot control if they do manage to get struck by the attack.

This is the exact problem with debuffs in this game. They are way too powerful for the player if given too much base damage and are not substantial against the enemy if given balanced stats for the player. As such, would there be a compromise for this issue? I cannot think of any at the top of my head, aside from making the debuffs percentage based rather than base damage. But, that also brings up the problem of higher health enemies compared to weaker ones. It would make the enemies that are naturally tougher more susceptible to such debuffs while making it a waste of time for enemies that are weaker. Perhaps they could only be percentage based for the explicitly fragile player, so that is consistent for players as it is to enemies with base damage? I do respect your efforts to bring light unto these usually forgotten conditions, but the current use they have will drastically change balance in the favor of the enemies using these debuffs. I'm not trying to say that we should not be concerned about effects of debuffs on us, but they shouldn't be doing well over 300 damage, should they?
If you want my honest opinion, I think that Relogic should just make the debuffs function differently depending on whether they're inflicted on an enemy or a player. They can't be balanced around the enemies and players AND have consistent effects; they'll either be too weak for our use, or incredibly power for our demise. Of course, what I could just do is what I did for Poisoned and Venom, and have every debuff deal capped percentage damage, but then, yeah, we'd have the problem of debuffs being literally useless against weaker enemies.
I, of course, didn't account for this in the suggestion, so perhaps I should do that.
 

azekill_DIABLO

Eye of Cthulhu
IF you want to balance it out make all damage proportional to HP using percents of max HP for ex. (with limits obviously)…
 

Bry-ccentric

Steampunker
IF you want to balance it out make all damage proportional to HP using percents of max HP for ex. (with limits obviously)…
Of course, what I could just do is what I did for Poisoned and Venom, and have every debuff deal capped percentage damage, but then, yeah, we'd have the problem of debuffs being literally useless against weaker enemies.
 

Bry-ccentric

Steampunker
That why I said thing about limits :D lower cap too!
Well I've confused myself. What do you mean by "limits"?
In my opinion, this isn’t a problem. Weaker enemies can be easily slain with a standard weapon, so in this new version, debuffs would be useful just for taking down high-profile targets like bosses and beefy regular enemies.
That's a pretty good point. Maybe I'll make them percentage-based, then.
...Except now I'm kinda stuck between that and having different versions for players and enemies. As dumb as it is, I'm genuinely not sure what to go with.
 

Bry-ccentric

Steampunker
Imagine a debuff that removes 1% of the enemy max life every second. On a mob with 40HP, the damage would ridiculously low. But if you somewhat manage to make the debuff deal at least 2HP second for example, it would still be efficient on weak enemies.
OH, I gotcha. I'm surprised I didn't think of that earlier. Thanks for clarifyin'!
 
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