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Meliorating Debuffs + Debuff Interactions

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics' started by Bry-ccentric, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. Bry-ccentric

    Bry-ccentric Steampunker

    Well, I sure didn't expect to be back with a suggestion again. This particular topic's been left untouched for a bit too long, though, I think.
    [​IMG]
    Debuffs.
    I'm sure everyone's noticed it at this point: Damage over Time (DoT) debuffs (*COUGH* Cursed Inferno) just kinda really suck. I've sure noticed it. I've seen several people mentioning the fact in several suggestions, to the point where a couple of suggestions have been made concerning the topic.
    After seeing the first message about debuffs, I started paying attention to them in-game, and that's when I, myself, realized how much they actually suck. Every message I saw afterwards just bolstered my confidence in the fact. Also, their tooltips just kinda generally suck.
    Now here I am, with a suggestion to remedy this problem.
    [​IMG]
    The Debuffs themselves.
    I'll be changing every DoT debuff that we can naturally inflict, as well as debuffs like Oiled and Dryad's Bane. I'll also be adding and changing some debuff descriptions, since some really need it, and I'll even add some new effects for debuffs that are player-specific, like Darkness and Blackout, in hopes of maybe coming up with some new and creative item ideas with them!
    If you want, leave me some feedback on my ideas. I might've made some things a little too strong (or weak), who knows?
    I sure don't.
    Debuff Previous Effects Previous Tooltip New Effects New Tooltip
    1 [​IMG] Poisoned -2 health per second. Halts natural health regeneration. Slowly losing life -1% health per second; scales to -4% or -500 damage (whatever's smaller) in the span of 10 seconds. Halts natural health regeneration. Absorbing toxins.
    2 [​IMG] On Fire! -4 health per second. Halts natural health regeneration. Can be put out with water. Slowly losing life -8 health per second; damage increases by 1 for every second of infliction, up to 16 DPS. 400% damage against slimy and cold enemies. Can be put out with water. Burning alive.
    3 [​IMG] Venom -6 health per second. Halts natural health regeneration. Losing life -2.5% health per second; caps at 400 damage per second. Halts natural health regeneration. Injected with toxins.
    4 [​IMG] Cursed Inferno -6 health per second. Halts natural health regeneration. Losing life -24 health per second; damage increases by 1 for every second of infliction, up to 36 DPS. 200% damage against slimy and cold enemies. Cannot be put out with water. Water won't save you from these flames.
    5 [​IMG] Frostburn -8 health per second. No natural health regeneration. It's either really hot, or really cold, but it REALLY hurts -22 health per second; damage decreases by 2 every second, down to 6 DPS. Attempting to put out the flames with water doubles the damage rate and reduces movement speed by 20% for the rest of the debuff's timer. 300% damage against slimy enemies; 0% against cold enemies, as they'll be immune. It's either really hot, or really cold, but either way, it REALLY hurts. (I really love this debuff's tooltip, by the way.)
    6 [​IMG]/[​IMG] Oiled On Fire!, Frostburn, Cursed Inferno and Shadowflame each deal 2 extra damage per "tick" when inflicted at the same time. Taking more damage from being on fire Target gains a yellow tint. On Fire!, Frostburn, Cursed Inferno, Shadowflame, Burning and Daybroken deal 200% damage. Each inflicted debuff decreases Oiled's timer by 10%. Oiled will not do any damage on its own, nor will it combine the debuffs' damage into 1 number. Avoid fire at ALL costs./The oil strengthens the fires!
    7 [​IMG] Shadowflame -15 health per second. No natural health regeneration. Losing life -36 health per second. Applies an Obstructed-like effect to the screen, but inversed: the center is black, which slowly fades outwards into an increasingly transparent dark purple. 200% damage against slimy and cold enemies, and 250% damage against Hallow enemies. The flames burn so hot, yet so dark...
    8 [​IMG] Penetrated -3 health per second per Javelin stuck in the enemy, up to -18 DPS. Losing life -4 health per second per Javelin stuck in the enemy, up to -24 DPS. Impaled by javelins.
    9 [​IMG] Daybroken -100 health per second per Daybreak stuck in the enemy, up to -800 DPS. Incenerated by solar rays (Beautiful typo, by the way) ...Actually, upon further observation, I think this might be fine. Being incinerated by solar rays.
    10 [​IMG] Celled -10 health per second per mini-cell stuck in the enemy; damage caps at 100 DPS. Being eaten by cells -1% health per second per cell; damage caps at 2500. Your cells are trying to fight off star cells. It doesn't look like your cells are winning.
    11 [​IMG] Dryad's Bane -2 health per second; first-time boss defeats increases damage, up to 10 DPS with every boss defeated (or 16, in Expert Mode). 'The power of nature compels you' -8 health per second; first-time boss defeats increase damage, up to ~50 DPS with every boss defeated (or ~75, in Expert Mode). Event bosses grant further increases, up to ~70/104. The power of Nature compels you!
    *The first hit deals normal damage, then the damage starts goin' up.
    [​IMG]
    Debuff Icons!
    As you were looked the table, I'm sure you noticed the new debuff icons I made.
    I'm happy to say that every debuff is ALSO getting a makeover! While not all of them are getting completely new icons, they all WILL be adorned with new frames!
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    The nice, wooden borders are for normal (de)buffs that have a timer.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    The gold/platinum frames (you can toggle that) are for timeless (de)buffs!
    I thought about having the "normal status" frame be like the new Map borders, where there'd be a bunch that you could choose from, but I think I'm gonna leave that up to Redigit.

    I'll be listing all of the debuffs in the order they appear in the Debuffs page on the wiki, so if you're familiar with that, you'll know what to expect.
    [​IMG]
    Poison

    [​IMG]
    Bleeding

    [​IMG]
    On Fire!

    [​IMG]
    Venom

    [​IMG]
    Darkness

    [​IMG]
    Blackout

    [​IMG]
    Silenced

    [​IMG]
    Cursed

    [​IMG]
    Confused

    [​IMG]
    Slow

    [​IMG]
    Oozed

    [​IMG]
    Weak

    [​IMG]
    Broken Armor

    [​IMG]
    Withered Armor

    [​IMG]
    Withered Weapon

    [​IMG]
    Horrified

    [​IMG]
    The Tongue

    [​IMG]
    Cursed Inferno

    [​IMG]
    Ichor

    [​IMG]
    Chilled

    [​IMG]
    Frozen

    [​IMG]
    Wet

    [​IMG]
    Webbed

    [​IMG]
    Stoned

    [​IMG]
    Distorted

    [​IMG]
    Obstructed

    [​IMG]
    Electrified

    [​IMG]
    Feral Bite

    [​IMG]
    Moon Bite

    [​IMG]
    Mana Sickness

    [​IMG]
    Potion Sickness

    [​IMG]
    Chaos State

    [​IMG]
    Suffocation

    [​IMG]
    Burning

    [​IMG]
    Tipsy

    [​IMG]
    Stinky

    [​IMG]
    Water Candle

    [​IMG]
    Mighty Wind

    [​IMG]
    Creative Shock

    [​IMG]
    Frostburn

    [​IMG]
    Midas

    [​IMG]
    Oiled

    [​IMG]
    Stunned

    [​IMG]
    Slimed

    [​IMG]
    Shadowflame

    [​IMG]
    Betsy's Curse

    [​IMG]
    Penetrated

    [​IMG]
    Daybroken

    [​IMG]
    Celled

    [​IMG]
    Dryad's Bane

    [​IMG]
    Dazed

    [​IMG]
    Sugar Rush
    [​IMG]
    And now for the fun part!
    Interactions between Debuffs!
    Yep, I'm making things more complicated because I think it'd be cool. Game developers HATE him!
    Of course, I'm gonna knock out the obvious stuff like Wet with On Fire!, but I'm also gonna throw in some other weird stuff, like Bleeding with Ichor.
    Now, uh, I actually have no idea how I'm gonna format this, so I guess it's time for me to ad-lib.
    [​IMG]
    Debuff Interaction
    1 [​IMG] Poisoned If Poisoned is inflicted while active, it immediately reaches full damage.
    2 [​IMG] Ichor If Ichor is inflicted while active, -20% max health until it wears off.
    3 [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Weak, Penetrated and Celled Bleeding doubles the debuff's effects while active.
    4 [​IMG] Feral Bite If Feral Bite is inflicted while active, all possible debuffs it can inflict will be active at once until it wears off.
    5 [​IMG] Moon Bite Moon Leech Clots have doubled health and heal double health to the Moon Lord.
    [​IMG]
    Debuff Interaction
    1 [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Wet, Bleeding, and cold debuffs Burning immediately removes the debuff.
    [​IMG]
    Debuff Interaction
    1 [​IMG] Fire debuffs Doubles the fires' damage. Each fire inflicted decreases Oiled's duration by 10%.
    2 [​IMG] Electrified The electricity ignites the oil, inflicting On Fire!
    [​IMG]
    Debuff Interaction
    1 [​IMG] Eachother Both debuffs' damage ramp-up speeds are halved, but their max damage increases by 50%.
    2 [​IMG][​IMG] Moon Bite Inflicts the Moon Lord with the inflicted toxin(s).
    [​IMG]
    Debuff Interaction
    1 [​IMG] Fire debuffs Triples the fires' damage. Each fire decreases Slimed's duration by 10%, plus an extra 2% each second for every fire debuff currently active.
    [​IMG]
    Debuff Interaction
    1 [​IMG][​IMG] On Fire! and Shadowflame Douses the fire, and prevents it from being re-inflicted while active.
    2 [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Oozed, Slimed and Ichor Washes off the gunk, though the debuff can be re-inflicted while active
    3 [​IMG] Chilled Guarantees infliction, and amplifies slowdown and duration by 160%.
    4 [​IMG] Frozen Increases infliction chance and duration by 50%.
    5 [​IMG][​IMG] Electrified and Frostburn Doubles damage rate.
    6 [​IMG] Mighty Wind Wind dries you off, removing the debuff after 3 seconds.
    [​IMG]
    Debuff Interaction
    1 [​IMG] Cursed Inferno Quadruples the fire's damage in water.
    2 [​IMG] Silenced Pauses mana regeneration if both are inflicted at the same time.
    3 [​IMG] Betsy's Curse All armor effects are negated if both are inflicted at the same time.
    [​IMG]

    Well, that's that, then. I'll admit, the interactions give me "mod" vibes, but hell, I've suggested worse contenders than this.
    This is probably the first "medium" suggestion I've made. So far, I've either gone all-in (and didn't finish), or made a teeny-weeny baby suggestion. It's a weird feeling.
    Anyways, thanks for readin' through this. If you think something needs fixin', tell me.​
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  2. TheWorfer27

    TheWorfer27 Retinazer

    I would like to remind you that 108 is a big number. A shadowflame doll could send a player from 600hp to 0.
     
  3. Bry-ccentric

    Bry-ccentric Steampunker

    Oh whoops, that's one number I forgot to scale down. I'll just reduce that to a third, then...
     
    TheWorfer27 likes this.
  4. Bry-ccentric

    Bry-ccentric Steampunker

    Aaaaaalright, I reached the main goal I had for my suggestion for once, so I'm happy. And proud.
    Now that I'm done, I kinda wanna renovate the debuff icons that need it. I've done a few already, and it's fairly easy.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    TheWorfer27 likes this.
  5. azekill_DIABLO

    azekill_DIABLO Eye of Cthulhu

    OMG the cursed inferno will just tear you in a few seconds! 36 DPS!
     
    Bry-ccentric and TheWorfer27 like this.
  6. King Victor

    King Victor Skeletron Prime

    Very nice format!
     
    Bry-ccentric likes this.
  7. sharkman0101

    sharkman0101 Skeletron Prime

    While these are good on paper for enemies, these are waaaay too powerful for use against the player. You must consider that these enemies have much larger health pools than us, and we only can have upwards of 400 or 500, given progression. Let us take into consideration your Cursed Flames buff. It does 24 damage per second, while only getting substantially stronger until it ends. Let us say that we get hit by a Clinger and procure the debuff on Expert. We would not only take the base hit of damage, but we would get this debuff for 14 seconds! If we do the math here, that means it would do 421 damage upon conclusion of the debuff. This isn't including the already present 68 damage attack(on expert) from the flames itself. So, in all, you would take 489 damage from a single hit! Wouldn't you think that is a bit too punishing? Even on normal mode it can seem a bit harsh. About 200 damage plus 44 damage from a single hit is way too punishing on the player, especially for a single hit and a debuff they cannot control if they do manage to get struck by the attack.

    This is the exact problem with debuffs in this game. They are way too powerful for the player if given too much base damage and are not substantial against the enemy if given balanced stats for the player. As such, would there be a compromise for this issue? I cannot think of any at the top of my head, aside from making the debuffs percentage based rather than base damage. But, that also brings up the problem of higher health enemies compared to weaker ones. It would make the enemies that are naturally tougher more susceptible to such debuffs while making it a waste of time for enemies that are weaker. Perhaps they could only be percentage based for the explicitly fragile player, so that is consistent for players as it is to enemies with base damage? I do respect your efforts to bring light unto these usually forgotten conditions, but the current use they have will drastically change balance in the favor of the enemies using these debuffs. I'm not trying to say that we should not be concerned about effects of debuffs on us, but they shouldn't be doing well over 300 damage, should they?
     
  8. Bry-ccentric

    Bry-ccentric Steampunker

    If you want my honest opinion, I think that Relogic should just make the debuffs function differently depending on whether they're inflicted on an enemy or a player. They can't be balanced around the enemies and players AND have consistent effects; they'll either be too weak for our use, or incredibly power for our demise. Of course, what I could just do is what I did for Poisoned and Venom, and have every debuff deal capped percentage damage, but then, yeah, we'd have the problem of debuffs being literally useless against weaker enemies.
    I, of course, didn't account for this in the suggestion, so perhaps I should do that.
     
    Baconfry and sharkman0101 like this.
  9. azekill_DIABLO

    azekill_DIABLO Eye of Cthulhu

    IF you want to balance it out make all damage proportional to HP using percents of max HP for ex. (with limits obviously)…
     
  10. Bry-ccentric

    Bry-ccentric Steampunker

     
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  11. azekill_DIABLO

    azekill_DIABLO Eye of Cthulhu

    That why I said thing about limits :D lower cap too!
     
  12. Baconfry

    Baconfry Terrarian

    In my opinion, this isn’t a problem. Weaker enemies can be easily slain with a standard weapon, so in this new version, debuffs would be useful just for taking down high-profile targets like bosses and beefy regular enemies.
     
    Bry-ccentric and azekill_DIABLO like this.
  13. Bry-ccentric

    Bry-ccentric Steampunker

    Well I've confused myself. What do you mean by "limits"?
    That's a pretty good point. Maybe I'll make them percentage-based, then.
    ...Except now I'm kinda stuck between that and having different versions for players and enemies. As dumb as it is, I'm genuinely not sure what to go with.
     
  14. azekill_DIABLO

    azekill_DIABLO Eye of Cthulhu

    Imagine a debuff that removes 1% of the enemy max life every second. On a mob with 40HP, the damage would ridiculously low. But if you somewhat manage to make the debuff deal at least 2HP second for example, it would still be efficient on weak enemies.
     
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  15. Bry-ccentric

    Bry-ccentric Steampunker

    OH, I gotcha. I'm surprised I didn't think of that earlier. Thanks for clarifyin'!
     
  16. azekill_DIABLO

    azekill_DIABLO Eye of Cthulhu

    Yw!