Game Mechanics More mana-expensive Summons

[Aceplante]

Endgame summons should take way more mana to summon. I know this is a negative change many will probably not like, but it makes sense as these minions are stronger, faster, and better overall.

Besides, unless you hybrid into mage, summoners dont usually have any other use for all that mana anyways. Minions are usually summoned before a fight so it wouldn't change much. Also, you should not be able to summon a bunch of minions during a fight and still have 150+ mana left for magic weapons.

 

[Talerax]

Unless you're trying to constantly summon minions in the middle of the battle, either to reposition the stucked one or to change tactic or whatever, increase mana cost achieve almost nothing. All it did would just making you wait a bit longer when you re-enter the world to re-summon your usual army.

They can even take all 200 mana to summon one minion, and all it did would just make it a bit more annoying when you re-enter the world. So, I just don't see the point of it.

Also, you should not be able to summon a bunch of minions during a fight and still have 150+ mana left for magic weapons.

If this is your main problem, I guess what you are looking for might be having the summoned minions reduce "max" mana as an upkeep. So, if you're going for mage/summoner hybrid build you will have to manage that properly.
Which I guess it might need a major overhaul on summoner armors to remove the summon capacity and increase max mana or reduce upkeep cost instead, in order to get the same effect. Otherwise it will become a huge nerf on summoner.

 

[firecat666]

I don't even see the point of summons costing mana to summon. Maybe sentries, but not the minion-type summons. But since they do, there could be some function to summon up to your max limit with 1 click, costing the same total mana it would cost to summon one by one.

 

[Cave wizard]

Also, you should not be able to summon a bunch of minions during a fight and still have 150+ mana left for magic weapons.

Why shouldn't you be able to? There's nothing stopping you from using melee or ranged (or whips, for that matter) weapons to your heart's content right after using all your mana up on summoning a whole slew of minions. Why should magic be singled out like this?
This suggestion is a pretty obvious "this ground is too soft, make it hurt more" type of suggestion, where its only purpose is to indirectly nerf mages slightly, and nerf summoners by a not insignificant amount. It's purely an anti-QoL idea, making summoning more tedious and time consuming. In addition, it would be a potentially significant nerf to summoners that die during events or non-despawning bosses. For a melee or ranged character, you're good to go right after respawning, aside from your low health and the need to hit your respective buffing stations. A summoner is already in the position of having to spend time re-summoning everything, making them vulnerable and slow. There's just no point to this idea except very arbitrarily making some "classes" slower and weaker.

 

[Aceplante]

Why shouldn't you be able to? There's nothing stopping you from using melee or ranged (or whips, for that matter) weapons to your heart's content right after using all your mana up on summoning a whole slew of minions. Why should magic be singled out like this?

Because you are magically summoning creatures to fight for you, so of course it consumes mana. In fact, you could say summoner is not really a separate class to mage, but more of a subclass since they both use the same mana system. I have no problem with the player being able to instantly use melee after summoning since that requires nothing, and ranger too, since that uses a separate ammo system instead. Feel free to use either of those.

This suggestion is a pretty obvious "this ground is too soft, make it hurt more" type of suggestion, where its only purpose is to indirectly nerf mages slightly, and nerf summoners by a not insignificant amount. It's purely an anti-QoL idea, making summoning more tedious and time consuming.

I do not think summons should be as cheap as they are now. Currently, as I mentioned, you can rapidly summon several summons all in quick succession, and still have tons of mana left? Again, same system, so it should consume way more... Like ~40-60 each for endgame summons? By that point you should have the max 200 mana anyways allowing you to summon about 4-5 on average depending on the summon, which, again, is in quick and rapid succession. (Plus if you really have mana management issues, reforge your accessories to arcane for +20 EACH).

A summoner is already in the position of having to spend time re-summoning everything, making them vulnerable and slow. There's just no point to this idea except very arbitrarily making some "classes" slower and weaker.

Then dont die.

 

[Talerax]

If anything, I would say just remove mana cost from summon altogether. Just make it truly be its own thing and not a subclass of mage like it used to be. Like, they don't even get real benefit from those magic stats, why should they be treated as (and hindered) mage stuffs?

 

[Cave wizard]

Your arguments boil down to "it would be more realistic so it should be done regardless of how it affects gameplay". Terraria is a very, very unrealistic game to begin with, so there is no need to tear down the gameplay in order to fit what you consider to make sense. Realism over gameplay makes sense in flight or military sims, for example, but Terraria is not that. Replies like:

Then dont die.

or

(Plus if you really have mana management issues, reforge your accessories to arcane for +20 EACH).

suggest to me that you aren't even arguing in good faith.

 

[Aceplante]

Your arguments boil down to "it would be more realistic so it should be done regardless of how it affects gameplay". Terraria is a very, very unrealistic game to begin with, so there is no need to tear down the gameplay in order to fit what you consider to make sense. Realism over gameplay makes sense in flight or military sims, for example, but Terraria is not that. Replies like:

or

suggest to me that you aren't even arguing in good faith.

Well personally I prefer a balance of fantasy and realism, and I do admit them being cheap like they are now does make it easier

And yes, I do think this would be a good change even if it would make the game harder.

 

[Mr. Spruce Tree]

Summoning staves costing mana has always just been an annoyance in the early game, and then completely negligable after that. Why make it an annoyance in any other part of the game?

And yes, I do think this would be a good change even if it would make the game harder.

It wouldn't make the game easier or harder. Once you summon your minions when you respawn, the mana cost means absolutely nothing to summoners. You aren't using mana midcombat like mages.
It would make the game slightly more tedious, and summoning 10~ minions in the endgame each spawn is already mildy annoying.

Also, you should not be able to summon a bunch of minions during a fight and still have 150+ mana left for magic weapons.

You usually summon them before fights, in which case mana can be quickly regenerated after a few seconds.

Well personally I prefer a balance of fantasy and realism...

This is understandable, but I think there is one main takeaway from all this: gameplay should be taken into consideration before logic.
There are too many weapons that are magical but require no mana to justify a change like this. A sea bow that shoots 4 arrows. Most melee weapons (and almost every sword) after Plantera. I don't think they should have a mana cost slapped onto them, as that would make them too close to just being Mage.

That's my opinion on this.

 

[Esther]

and every single sword (after plantera)

Not sure what to say about the main suggestion (I feel like it's an in-between case for me), but I just want to point out that the Keybrand has no projectiles which I'm pretty sure you're talking about with the "Every single sword" thing.

 

[Mr. Spruce Tree]

Not sure what to say about the main suggestion (I feel like it's an in-between case for me), but I just want to point out that the Keybrand has no projectiles which I'm pretty sure you're talking about with the "Every single sword" thing.

I wanted to point out that, as the game progresses, even the non-magic class weapons get magical properties/abilities, yet don't cost mana, so I don't feel like summoning staves should cost more mana because they're more magic/powerful. I mostly meant the blade-themed sword, but I will admit I did forget about the Keybrand. I edited the original message, thanks for pointing it out.

 

[TurboClide]

What is the point?

 

[Eye Of Cthulhu 🌳]

They shouldn't even cost mana.

They don't do anything to cost it, and if you're seriously concerned about having enough mana to use magic, HYBRID CLASSES SUCK. BADLY.

 

[Green_Metaknight]

I agree with every single post in this thread not made by the original poster.
In Journey Mode, I always have trouble with summoner because some of them cost so much mana that I have to fully research Mana Stars to be able to use them.
And anyone here who's played Journey knows that researching Fallen Stars takes A WHILE.

In fact, you could say summoner is not really a separate class to mage, but more of a subclass since they both use the same mana system.

Classes are defined by the DAMAGE TYPE.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

If Summoner Class had taken a different route, something more akin to what initial 1.4.0 offered, this might've been an interesting mechanic {IMHO}, to help balance-out just how powerful 1.4.4.9 Hybrid Summoner has become, but that's not what we got, so we're all kinda in this weird spot where, those who are Classic Veterans are happy, Traditional Veterans want more Whips and Minions, those who are Mod loving [Calamity did it better] Veterans aren't happy at all, and newer players~ trying the Class out for the first time are left... confused and come here to the forums looking for answers [because trying to explain Pure Summoner on a Wiki is extremely tough to do].

The weirdest part about it all~ is that Summoner is likely the most buffed Class in the entire game, but some Players still don't feel it's enough.

1. "We need Minions to remain active, even after death, even though this isn't the case for most other buffs!"
2. "We need Sentries to be stronger and much more accurate, so that they can hit faster-moving Bosses!"
3. "We need Summoner Armor to have buffs that increase running/ flight speed, the Class is too slow!"
4. "We need older Minions to have close to, or the same AI as Blades Staff or Sanguine Bats!"
5. "We need longer-reaching Whips, similar to 1.4.1.2 Obsidian Set as default!"
6. "Summoner Class has too many gaps in progression, we need more stuff!"

Even though I agree with you~ that Summoner Class could use a lil' nerf, and perhaps some more interesting and restrictive mechanics, all that'll happen is these "weaknesses" will be exaggerated, taken out of context, and more request for buffs will just repeat themselves [10 Minute Sentries to cover Spawn Camping, just won't cut-it I guess?]. If Obsidian/ Fire Cracker wasn't enough of a display of Summoner Classes power, if the Devs aren't careful, I don't know what it'll take.

If left up to me, the Class would mostly be left alone as of 1.4.4.9... but it isn't up to me, and so now we get free Minions upon death and will be getting more Whips as of 1.4.5. Giving Summoner anything less than another wave of buffs is asking for trouble [but for all the wrong reasons].

 

[Aceplante]

Im well aware this is an unpopular change, but I will maybe accept the argument that there is no need for summon weapons to increase in average mana cost as the game goes on.

Also @Green_Metaknight🐿️ lol

 

[Aceplante]

If Summoner Class had taken a different route, something more akin to what initial 1.4.0 offered, this might've been an interesting mechanic {IMHO}, to help balance-out just how powerful 1.4.4.9 Hybrid Summoner has become, but that's not what we got, so we're all kinda in this weird spot where, those who are Classic Veterans are happy, Traditional Veterans want more Whips and Minions, those who are Mod loving [Calamity did it better] Veterans aren't happy at all, and newer players~ trying the Class out for the first time are left... confused and come here to the forums looking for answers [because trying to explain Pure Summoner on a Wiki is extremely tough to do].

The weirdest part about it all~ is that Summoner is likely the most buffed Class in the entire game, but some Players still don't feel it's enough.

1. "We need Minions to remain active, even after death, even though this isn't the case for most other buffs!"
2. "We need Sentries to be stronger and much more accurate, so that they can hit faster-moving Bosses!"
3. "We need Summoner Armor to have buffs that increase running/ flight speed, the Class is too slow!"
4. "We need older Minions to have close to, or the same AI as Blades Staff or Sanguine Bats!"
5. "We need longer-reaching Whips, similar to 1.4.1.2 Obsidian Set as default!"
6. "Summoner Class has too many gaps in progression, we need more stuff!"

Even though I agree with you~ that Summoner Class could use a lil' nerf, and perhaps some more interesting and restrictive mechanics, all that'll happen is these "weaknesses" will be exaggerated, taken out of context, and more request for buffs will just repeat themselves [10 Minute Sentries to cover Spawn Camping, just won't cut-it I guess?]. If Obsidian/ Fire Cracker wasn't enough of a display of Summoner Classes power, if the Devs aren't careful, I don't know what it'll take.

If left up to me, the Class would mostly be left alone as of 1.4.4.9... but it isn't up to me, and so now we get free Minions upon death and will be getting more Whips as of 1.4.5. Giving Summoner anything less than another wave of buffs is asking for trouble [but for all the wrong reasons].

well im fine with more whips/new summons but yea I also agree summoner is mostly fine as is and we dont need to change the fundamentals