NPCs & Enemies Most invasions should end if all players are dead.

The penatly is now to have half a bajillion gravestones shattered around the place, you would have to clean up. Even though that's more just an annoyance than actually anything difficult.

Point being, there's nothing wrong with being able to slowly defeat the pillars. In order to defeat them, you still must have to be able to kill lots of lunar creatures, and damage the pillars. and, if you have enough perseverance to keep fighting back even though you were spawn-killed the 3rd time in a row, you might as well deserve those fragments after a half hour suffering, as a sort of gift for not giving up. That's what I think.
The pillars are crazy hard anyway in the same gear you fought lunatic cultist (and probably golem too (lol))

Not to mention, the whole thing is structured that way, that Lunatic cultist --> 4 pillars --> Moon lord is a chain of events, and if you mess up the fight with moon lord, you have to re-do the whole. (if you don't have enough fragments to summon moon lord, but let's be real, the first few times, you probably will use the fragments for weapons right away?) as long as you don't have enough fragments, trying again fighting moon lord (or trying to farm him) means going though the whole event chain again. It's tough already, I think making it any tougher than it is now would be no fun.

However, I do think the pillars' shield resumes, if the game closes (or it was so in the previous version) I know, because first time I faced the pillars, the game crashed randomly one time when I got the shield of one down and nearly defeated it. I had to re-do that pillar again. So, if that's still how it is, if you're a masochist or something, you can try to alt F4 if something killed you at a pillar, and then try that pillar again from zero. If you ask me, it sounds like a pain, but if you want, I think you can try it that way, if you want to suffer, I think.
(but please don't suggest such changes for everyone. because it doesn't sounds fun)

I actually have a lot of issues with the lunar events, being my least favorite event in the game. I would honestly restructure the entire thing to not work how it does currently. So here are the changes I would make, since adding a death penalty isn't enough to savor this event, and would need more changes to even the event out with a death penalty.

-Make the shield of a pillar reset if all players are not present, but significantly lower the requirement for lowering a pillar's shield (down to maybe a third or a fourth of the current requirement). So while death resets the shield requirement, it is significantly faster to remove the shield.
-Nerf the pillar enemies to make them less of a difficulty spike and make it more reasonable for the player to kill enough enemies to remove the shield.
-Significantly lower the cost of the item used to summon Moon Lord, down to 1 of each type of fragment, so that you don't need to repeat the event over and over to fight the Moon Lord.
-Provide a means to call off the event if you are struggling too much. Maybe an "off switch" of sorts appears at the dungeon that lets you cancel the Cultists' ritual.
-Make a craftable item that lets you summon the pillars without needing to kill Lunatic Cultist again. This way, you only need to defeat the Lunatic Cultist once.
-Add a progress bar for removing pillar shields, like the invasions.

These changes would add actual setbacks for dying in the lunar event, but also make it so you don't need to repeat parts of the event chain. Idealy, you would only have to defeat the Lunatic Cultist and the Pillars once each. The last point is just a QoL thing.

Currently the lunar events is just a giant grindfest and is a very weak ending to an otherwise fantastic game. Changes should be made to make it more skill-oriented while at the same time reducing the grind and making it more convenient to try again. As it stands, the lunar pillars are the least enjoyable invasion in the entire game.
 
I actually have a lot of issues with the lunar events, being my least favorite event in the game. I would honestly restructure the entire thing to not work how it does currently. So here are the changes I would make, since adding a death penalty isn't enough to savor this event, and would need more changes to even the event out with a death penalty.

-Make the shield of a pillar reset if all players are not present, but significantly lower the requirement for lowering a pillar's shield (down to maybe a third or a fourth of the current requirement). So while death resets the shield requirement, it is significantly faster to remove the shield.
-Nerf the pillar enemies to make them less of a difficulty spike and make it more reasonable for the player to kill enough enemies to remove the shield.
-Significantly lower the cost of the item used to summon Moon Lord, down to 1 of each type of fragment, so that you don't need to repeat the event over and over to fight the Moon Lord.
-Provide a means to call off the event if you are struggling too much. Maybe an "off switch" of sorts appears at the dungeon that lets you cancel the Cultists' ritual.
-Make a craftable item that lets you summon the pillars without needing to kill Lunatic Cultist again. This way, you only need to defeat the Lunatic Cultist once.
-Add a progress bar for removing pillar shields, like the invasions.

These changes would add actual setbacks for dying in the lunar event, but also make it so you don't need to repeat parts of the event chain. Idealy, you would only have to defeat the Lunatic Cultist and the Pillars once each. The last point is just a QoL thing.

Currently the lunar events is just a giant grindfest and is a very weak ending to an otherwise fantastic game. Changes should be made to make it more skill-oriented while at the same time reducing the grind and making it more convenient to try again. As it stands, the lunar pillars are the least enjoyable invasion in the entire game.
They actually added a progress bar for the shield, and also for the pillar's HP once the shield is down. so that's already in the game.

Otherwise.
1.) currently, the requirements cause you to usually kill enough of most lunar creatures to get quite a lot of info on them for the bestiary. I think this is good.

2. if you would make them resume the shield every time you killed by something there, it would actually be the opposite of being easier to clear the event. Yes, I get it, you say have some other way to stop it, like a... switch in the dungeon?! I get the cultist settled there, but what would make you stop from taking that item to somewhere elsewhere even pre-hardmode when you first stumble upon it, likely, and wouldn't even know what is it - or if it's like an altar and can't be moved, then, have fun going back to one of the other most unforgiving places, the harmode dungeon with paladins and stuff, in order to cancel the lunar events - that sounds silly even "lore"-wise, as if there would be a cancel button if Lunatic cultist changed his mind on bringing the apocalypse on the world... XD

If the pillars would be nerfed, then moon lord would be even more a huge gap in strenght.
they are very tough - especially concerning you have no real other armor options than just one for each class between post-plantera and post moon lord, so, you would have the same armor as before, but while it can be a pain, you actually can defeat the lunar pillars, if you keep at it. Also, the weapons you get from fragments can be a huge help against them, as well as against moon lord. if you get at least one of these weapons, the pillars are a lot easier, but if you would cancel the event you're still with just the same gear, and you can't really get anything better at that point than what you have, than what can be crafted from the fragments.

Ways to re-summon just one of the towers or such after, could be a nice QoL idea though.
 
They actually added a progress bar for the shield, and also for the pillar's HP once the shield is down. so that's already in the game.

Otherwise.
1.) currently, the requirements cause you to usually kill enough of most lunar creatures to get quite a lot of info on them for the bestiary. I think this is good.

2. if you would make them resume the shield every time you killed by something there, it would actually be the opposite of being easier to clear the event. Yes, I get it, you say have some other way to stop it, like a... switch in the dungeon?! I get the cultist settled there, but what would make you stop from taking that item to somewhere elsewhere even pre-hardmode when you first stumble upon it, likely, and wouldn't even know what is it - or if it's like an altar and can't be moved, then, have fun going back to one of the other most unforgiving places, the harmode dungeon with paladins and stuff, in order to cancel the lunar events - that sounds silly even "lore"-wise, as if there would be a cancel button if Lunatic cultist changed his mind on bringing the apocalypse on the world... XD

If the pillars would be nerfed, then moon lord would be even more a huge gap in strenght.
they are very tough - especially concerning you have no real other armor options than just one for each class between post-plantera and post moon lord, so, you would have the same armor as before, but while it can be a pain, you actually can defeat the lunar pillars, if you keep at it. Also, the weapons you get from fragments can be a huge help against them, as well as against moon lord. if you get at least one of these weapons, the pillars are a lot easier, but if you would cancel the event you're still with just the same gear, and you can't really get anything better at that point than what you have, than what can be crafted from the fragments.

Ways to re-summon just one of the towers or such after, could be a nice QoL idea though.

I don't have much to say on the bestiary requirements, since it isn't a feature I care much about.

For resetting the shield when everyone dies, as said, they can greatly lower the requirement for removing the shield. So basically, you need to be good enough at the game to take down the shield, and it isn't nearly as hard to do it without dying compared to the current implementation. But you cannot just bumrush a pillar dying repeatedly until the pillar is dead (literally any player can do this, skill isn't required to win in this manner, just patience). For reducing enemies required: 50 for Normal Mode, 75 for Expert. For the switch, it wouldn't be an item that you can just put in your inventory. I was thinking it would be kind of like the tablet you see the cultists worshiping, and only appears while the event is going on. And it wouldn't be in the dungeon either, but at the entrance, exactly where you found the cultists.

I personally think that the Moon Lord is overtuned in terms of difficulty, but that is a topic for another thread.

"but while it can be a pain, you actually can defeat the lunar pillars, if you keep at it."
Again, I don't like that you can defeat the pillars by bumrushing them if you don't care about your death count. This rewards patience over skill at the game. This is why I would like them to add a death penalty for the pillars just like the main bosses in the game, but also make surviving the pillars without dying significantly more reasonable by nerfing the enemies and lowering the shield requirement.

I love this game, but the grindy nature of the endgame puts me off future playthroughs . I never look forward to the lunar events in its current state; the current implementation isn't fun and I find the whole thing exhausting.
 
The thought of stopping invasions has crossed my mind from time to time. Whether it's trying to get all the emblems from the Wall of Flesh and a Goblin Invasion occurs (which prevents the Guide from spawning) or other things like getting into deep exploration only to have the Traveling Merchant show up. Events can be annoying interruptions sometimes.

I enjoy Terraria largely in part because it is a Sandbox game, which allows me to fight how I want even down to changing the appearance of the world if I want. Aside from a bit of linear gameplay requirements, the only other thing that goes against this is invasions. Some, like Blood Moon or Solar Eclipse pass with time so you can do other things if you don't feel like participating. Others, like the Goblin Invasion or Pirate Invasion stick around until you beat them.

I like that all have the ability to be initiated by the player through items. However, the opposite does not exist. I would like an item that could shut off invasions. If the developers are so set in requiring you to participate in these things always, maybe it could be an item not easily obtainable? I do think the option should exist in the form of an item. Like a reversal of what initiates these things.

I enjoy the invasions and most of the time you wouldn't even have to ask me if I feel like killing a couple hundred monsters. But there are times, seldom, when its just a nuisance and I am busy doing something else.
 
I don't have much to say on the bestiary requirements, since it isn't a feature I care much about.

For resetting the shield when everyone dies, as said, they can greatly lower the requirement for removing the shield. So basically, you need to be good enough at the game to take down the shield, and it isn't nearly as hard to do it without dying compared to the current implementation. But you cannot just bumrush a pillar dying repeatedly until the pillar is dead (literally any player can do this, skill isn't required to win in this manner, just patience). For reducing enemies required: 50 for Normal Mode, 75 for Expert. For the switch, it wouldn't be an item that you can just put in your inventory. I was thinking it would be kind of like the tablet you see the cultists worshiping, and only appears while the event is going on. And it wouldn't be in the dungeon either, but at the entrance, exactly where you found the cultists.

I personally think that the Moon Lord is overtuned in terms of difficulty, but that is a topic for another thread.

"but while it can be a pain, you actually can defeat the lunar pillars, if you keep at it."
Again, I don't like that you can defeat the pillars by bumrushing them if you don't care about your death count. This rewards patience over skill at the game. This is why I would like them to add a death penalty for the pillars just like the main bosses in the game, but also make surviving the pillars without dying significantly more reasonable by nerfing the enemies and lowering the shield requirement.

I love this game, but the grindy nature of the endgame puts me off future playthroughs . I never look forward to the lunar events in its current state; the current implementation isn't fun and I find the whole thing exhausting.
The "since it isn't a feature I care much about. " sort of argument is somewhat invalid when we're talking about suggestions, especially for vanilla. Mods are another matter, since you can have them if you like them, or not have if you don't like. But vanilla is something everyone should find enjoyment in playing, right? It's perfectly fine not to care about an aspect, but that doesn't means others don't care either.
I'm kind of happy with I got all the text info filled in like all lunar creatures the first time I went though the event now.
(then again, that might be just me.
point being...

This whole tread went to a direction like you saying you don't like it this way, because it seems it's doable with "simply" perseverance, and requiring no skills, and that it would be better if you would need more skills?

My opinion is, that right now it's fine the way it is. No, it wouldn't be much better if you would have to kill less creatures, a single lunar creature can kill you in seconds if you mess up something just a little bit.
Let's not forget there are all sorts of players, not everyone is that good, so why to require more skills, and be more unforgiving? If you managed to start the lunar events, you had to defeat Lunatic Cultist, to begin with. And he's not king slime or something. Lunatic Cultist is seriously a tough boss. If you could defeat him, you must be pretty strong and skillful. It's just another thing that lunar creatures are even tougher.

But basically what you would propose this way is like
You can't kill towers "easily" just by perseverance, you have to one-shot them, or try again, and again, and again, and again and... again, because you just got hit an unavoidable nebulla sphere, or got a corite in your face because trying to avoid getting the crawltipede's attention, or got overwhelmed by stardust cells multiplying rapidly, or overwhelmed by a huge swarm of alien hornets... or... Is there someone who can oneshot a tower without dying? Can you do that? Some might can, but I'm sure I can't, not even on normal mode...

And you suggest, that "however it should be negated by something like clicking on a tablet". Alright, that would mean you wouldn't face the lunar apocalypse. And...? You get no fragments, no better weapons, you have the same gear, and you can't get better, because you already have the best gear pre-pillars. Why would you cancel the event, when you started it yourself, intencionally, when, if you cancel it, you won't be able to get any better weapons you would have better chances fighting them after, when you want to try again.
I see no pros in cancelling the event. If you didn't wanted it, you shouldn't fight (and defeat.) lunatic cultist. I have trouble imagining many players would accidentally defeat lunatic cultist.
Sure, it's grindy, even to an annoying level, but you gain much by defeating the pillars.



Rather than focusing on the lunar events however, indeed if we look at other events, ways to cancel them would be useful. The lunar apocalypse is always started by the player (and it's not likely anyone would start it by accident, since Lunatic Cultist is very tough, so unlikely many would defeat him accidentally, and not intentionally.)

Other events however often aren't and, those do can be a pain. such as goblins and pirates. Good question though what would be a balanced way, to be able to cancel such events.
Like, if an event would drop an item that allow you to cancel it next times, would be helpful when the event is just an annoyance - like, there's little point fighting the goblins more than one time pre-hardmode.
however that wouldn't solve problem with when you stuck in an event first time, and spawnkilled by the pirate captain and 38 567 pirate corsairs... but I'm not quite sure what would be a good way to cancel an event the first time...
 
The "since it isn't a feature I care much about. " sort of argument is somewhat invalid when we're talking about suggestions, especially for vanilla. Mods are another matter, since you can have them if you like them, or not have if you don't like. But vanilla is something everyone should find enjoyment in playing, right? It's perfectly fine not to care about an aspect, but that doesn't means others don't care either.
I'm kind of happy with I got all the text info filled in like all lunar creatures the first time I went though the event now.
(then again, that might be just me.
point being...

This whole tread went to a direction like you saying you don't like it this way, because it seems it's doable with "simply" perseverance, and requiring no skills, and that it would be better if you would need more skills?

My opinion is, that right now it's fine the way it is. No, it wouldn't be much better if you would have to kill less creatures, a single lunar creature can kill you in seconds if you mess up something just a little bit.
Let's not forget there are all sorts of players, not everyone is that good, so why to require more skills, and be more unforgiving? If you managed to start the lunar events, you had to defeat Lunatic Cultist, to begin with. And he's not king slime or something. Lunatic Cultist is seriously a tough boss. If you could defeat him, you must be pretty strong and skillful. It's just another thing that lunar creatures are even tougher.

But basically what you would propose this way is like
You can't kill towers "easily" just by perseverance, you have to one-shot them, or try again, and again, and again, and again and... again, because you just got hit an unavoidable nebulla sphere, or got a corite in your face because trying to avoid getting the crawltipede's attention, or got overwhelmed by stardust cells multiplying rapidly, or overwhelmed by a huge swarm of alien hornets... or... Is there someone who can oneshot a tower without dying? Can you do that? Some might can, but I'm sure I can't, not even on normal mode...

And you suggest, that "however it should be negated by something like clicking on a tablet". Alright, that would mean you wouldn't face the lunar apocalypse. And...? You get no fragments, no better weapons, you have the same gear, and you can't get better, because you already have the best gear pre-pillars. Why would you cancel the event, when you started it yourself, intencionally, when, if you cancel it, you won't be able to get any better weapons you would have better chances fighting them after, when you want to try again.
I see no pros in cancelling the event. If you didn't wanted it, you shouldn't fight (and defeat.) lunatic cultist. I have trouble imagining many players would accidentally defeat lunatic cultist.
Sure, it's grindy, even to an annoying level, but you gain much by defeating the pillars.



Rather than focusing on the lunar events however, indeed if we look at other events, ways to cancel them would be useful. The lunar apocalypse is always started by the player (and it's not likely anyone would start it by accident, since Lunatic Cultist is very tough, so unlikely many would defeat him accidentally, and not intentionally.)

Other events however often aren't and, those do can be a pain. such as goblins and pirates. Good question though what would be a balanced way, to be able to cancel such events.
Like, if an event would drop an item that allow you to cancel it next times, would be helpful when the event is just an annoyance - like, there's little point fighting the goblins more than one time pre-hardmode.
however that wouldn't solve problem with when you stuck in an event first time, and spawnkilled by the pirate captain and 38 567 pirate corsairs... but I'm not quite sure what would be a good way to cancel an event the first time...

My comment on the bestiary wasn't an argument, I was just saying I have no input on it.

Currently with the lunar event, if you die during Lunatic Cultist, you fail. If you die during Moon Lord, you fail. This means that the event already demands skill in 2 of the 3 parts to it. The lunar pillars themselves are the only exception. And also, this game is very demanding of your skills in other areas. You have to defeat Wall of Flesh to enter hardmode. You need to defeat the mech bosses to fight Plantera. You need to defeat Plantera to fight the Golem and get your hands on endgame loot. There are already so many challenges that the player has to go through in order to get to the pillars. "Not everyone is that good" isn't a relevant argument with all this in mind.

"you have to one-shot them, or try again, and again, and again, and again and... again, because you just got hit an unavoidable nebulla sphere, or got a corite in your face because trying to avoid getting the crawltipede's attention, or got overwhelmed by stardust cells multiplying rapidly, or overwhelmed by a huge swarm of alien hornets... or... Is there someone who can oneshot a tower without dying? Can you do that? Some might can, but I'm sure I can't, not even on normal mode..."

If you are saying it's impossible to do it without dying, that sounds more like the difficulty of the event itself is overtuned. Theoretically, you should be able to do anything in this game without taking a scratch (not for the average player, obviously, just "technically possible" to not get hit at all). If death is unavoidable, that means that the event is simply too hard and should be toned town significantly if it is going to require not dying. As said, I think that the event as a whole needs a rework, not just have a death penalty added.

"And you suggest, that "however it should be negated by something like clicking on a tablet". Alright, that would mean you wouldn't face the lunar apocalypse. And...? You get no fragments, no better weapons, you have the same gear, and you can't get better, because you already have the best gear pre-pillars. Why would you cancel the event, when you started it yourself, intencionally, when, if you cancel it, you won't be able to get any better weapons you would have better chances fighting them after, when you want to try again."

Yeah, you don't get the better gear because you haven't earned the rights to them yet. But there are still so many ways you can prepare for the pillars. You can go do the Pumpkin and Frost Moon events. You can go fight Duke Fishron and Empress of Light. You can get a lot of very useful gear from the dungeon. You can try different classes. You can still even get loot from the pillars themselves. Say, you are struggling with the pillars, but after trying each one, you found that the Nebula Pillar is one you can manage better in. So you try that pillar and eventually beat it, and then you get nice overpowered mage weapons. Now you can swap over to spectre armor and use those overpowered mage weapons to handle the rest of the pillars, and maybe be able to defeat Moon Lord himself. See, by forcing you to actually one-shot each pillar, it encourages you to experiment and try different strategies instead of bumrushing each pillar with mountains of gravestones. It also ensures that you are actually strong enough for Moon Lord.

In terms of canceling events, I gave a solution earlier in the thread. If there isn't a death penalty, then just have the invasion leave when the sun sets. That way, the player can do what they do to avoid the Blood Moon and Solar Eclipse and go do other things until the invaders leave. A day also lasts 15 minutes, which is plenty of time to defeat an invasion for someone better prepared for it. So the better prepared can take on the invaders, and an unprepared player can leave and wait on the invaders to go away. (I am starting to like this idea better than the death penalty idea, tbh. It works so well for the Pumpkin and Frost Moons, after all.)
 
My comment on the bestiary wasn't an argument, I was just saying I have no input on it.

Currently with the lunar event, if you die during Lunatic Cultist, you fail. If you die during Moon Lord, you fail. This means that the event already demands skill in 2 of the 3 parts to it. The lunar pillars themselves are the only exception. And also, this game is very demanding of your skills in other areas. You have to defeat Wall of Flesh to enter hardmode. You need to defeat the mech bosses to fight Plantera. You need to defeat Plantera to fight the Golem and get your hands on endgame loot. There are already so many challenges that the player has to go through in order to get to the pillars. "Not everyone is that good" isn't a relevant argument with all this in mind.

"you have to one-shot them, or try again, and again, and again, and again and... again, because you just got hit an unavoidable nebulla sphere, or got a corite in your face because trying to avoid getting the crawltipede's attention, or got overwhelmed by stardust cells multiplying rapidly, or overwhelmed by a huge swarm of alien hornets... or... Is there someone who can oneshot a tower without dying? Can you do that? Some might can, but I'm sure I can't, not even on normal mode..."

If you are saying it's impossible to do it without dying, that sounds more like the difficulty of the event itself is overtuned. Theoretically, you should be able to do anything in this game without taking a scratch (not for the average player, obviously, just "technically possible" to not get hit at all). If death is unavoidable, that means that the event is simply too hard and should be toned town significantly if it is going to require not dying. As said, I think that the event as a whole needs a rework, not just have a death penalty added.

"And you suggest, that "however it should be negated by something like clicking on a tablet". Alright, that would mean you wouldn't face the lunar apocalypse. And...? You get no fragments, no better weapons, you have the same gear, and you can't get better, because you already have the best gear pre-pillars. Why would you cancel the event, when you started it yourself, intencionally, when, if you cancel it, you won't be able to get any better weapons you would have better chances fighting them after, when you want to try again."

Yeah, you don't get the better gear because you haven't earned the rights to them yet. But there are still so many ways you can prepare for the pillars. You can go do the Pumpkin and Frost Moon events. You can go fight Duke Fishron and Empress of Light. You can get a lot of very useful gear from the dungeon. You can try different classes. You can still even get loot from the pillars themselves. Say, you are struggling with the pillars, but after trying each one, you found that the Nebula Pillar is one you can manage better in. So you try that pillar and eventually beat it, and then you get nice overpowered mage weapons. Now you can swap over to spectre armor and use those overpowered mage weapons to handle the rest of the pillars, and maybe be able to defeat Moon Lord himself. See, by forcing you to actually one-shot each pillar, it encourages you to experiment and try different strategies instead of bumrushing each pillar with mountains of gravestones. It also ensures that you are actually strong enough for Moon Lord.

In terms of canceling events, I gave a solution earlier in the thread. If there isn't a death penalty, then just have the invasion leave when the sun sets. That way, the player can do what they do to avoid the Blood Moon and Solar Eclipse and go do other things until the invaders leave. A day also lasts 15 minutes, which is plenty of time to defeat an invasion for someone better prepared for it. So the better prepared can take on the invaders, and an unprepared player can leave and wait on the invaders to go away. (I am starting to like this idea better than the death penalty idea, tbh. It works so well for the Pumpkin and Frost Moons, after all.)
Lunatic cultist and Moon lord are bosses, while the lunar apocalypse is partly an event. So, they have several differences, obviously. most bosses are easy to summon too, so if you mess up the battle, you can craft a summoning item easily and try again easily. But the whole event chain of Lunatic Cultist, pillars, moon lord makes that a bigger pain in this regards, and, the towers being the middle part, it would be bad, if you could actually mess up that.

Of course, you have to play well, to get to that point in the game. You must be moderately strong at least. But there are some differences, like a rather big gap in power between cultist and the towers, and the towers spawn at ranom areas, so you probably has no arenas or anything, you might build before against other bosses, which can significantly raises your chances of winning a battle.

In fact, if you fight normal bosses, you can usually think out a strategy after several tries, and eventually win, even if you got murdered by the boss the first few times. However you can't start the lunar events on their own, you have to defeat the lunatic cultist, and, while if you could defeat him once, you likely would be able to do it again, he can't be fought just any time again, if you messed up or something, it takes time until the cultists go back to the dungeon.

What I meant by better gear, let's say you got the very best gear you can get prior to the pillars. let's say you defeated duke fishron, empress of light, farmed for stuff in the hardmode dungeon, got some stuff from punpkin and frost moons... tower creatures can kill you easily still. and there's no way to get better gear then, witchout defeating the towers.
IF you could summon them one by one, then somewhat it could work to have a despawn penalty like with other bosses (but it would be extremely frustrating, because I don't think there are many players who can one-shot towers...
I don't think I could either. they aren't really like other bosses. they're a combo of events and boss, so... yeah, they're unique, and difficult.
Are they're awfully grindy? Yes. But I don't think they would be better, if they would despawn. I think that would be a lot worse.

Also, I think lots of players like to play a certain class, and so late in the game, changing your class would be very inconvinient. you would anyway go for the tower of your class as one of the firsts, to get those weapons you want.


The problem with events ending at night/morning is, that, while randomly starting events like goblins and pirates start early morning, you can start these with the summoning items any time you want (which is convinient, since you can fight them when you want) but, so, you could start an invasion, let's say 7:29 PM. and if it would despawn at 7:30, it would been a waste of the summon item. and restricting players when to summon them would be bad.
Not to mention, the martians will invade when you were spotted by a probe, which can happen any time.

You could try something like a time limit, but that also sounds inconvinient, like, what if you did you absolute best even though you had trash gear, and it turned into a long fight, and you cleared it 99% and then, tick-tock, time out! bye bye goblins. Bosses do that too, which can be very frustrating too, it would be bad, if events would do that...
blodd moon and eclipse ends on its own, but you can't technically "clear" the envent. you get cool loot, but there's no real reward after, unlike with some of the events like having the goblin tinkerer move in (after you found him)

The white flag idea sounds interesting, but it might be difficult to use if you're continously spawn-killed, or, if you don't have it in your inventory when you would need it... - plus, in multiplayer it would bring up other problems, like trolls ruining things by dismissing an event the others were looking forward to.

Finding a way that works for every events that can happen randomly is tough... (let's exclude lunar apocalypse from this, that is always started by the player defeating a perticularly tough, late-game boss)
 
Lunatic cultist and Moon lord are bosses, while the lunar apocalypse is partly an event. So, they have several differences, obviously. most bosses are easy to summon too, so if you mess up the battle, you can craft a summoning item easily and try again easily. But the whole event chain of Lunatic Cultist, pillars, moon lord makes that a bigger pain in this regards, and, the towers being the middle part, it would be bad, if you could actually mess up that.

Of course, you have to play well, to get to that point in the game. You must be moderately strong at least. But there are some differences, like a rather big gap in power between cultist and the towers, and the towers spawn at ranom areas, so you probably has no arenas or anything, you might build before against other bosses, which can significantly raises your chances of winning a battle.

In fact, if you fight normal bosses, you can usually think out a strategy after several tries, and eventually win, even if you got murdered by the boss the first few times. However you can't start the lunar events on their own, you have to defeat the lunatic cultist, and, while if you could defeat him once, you likely would be able to do it again, he can't be fought just any time again, if you messed up or something, it takes time until the cultists go back to the dungeon.

What I meant by better gear, let's say you got the very best gear you can get prior to the pillars. let's say you defeated duke fishron, empress of light, farmed for stuff in the hardmode dungeon, got some stuff from punpkin and frost moons... tower creatures can kill you easily still. and there's no way to get better gear then, witchout defeating the towers.
IF you could summon them one by one, then somewhat it could work to have a despawn penalty like with other bosses (but it would be extremely frustrating, because I don't think there are many players who can one-shot towers...
I don't think I could either. they aren't really like other bosses. they're a combo of events and boss, so... yeah, they're unique, and difficult.
Are they're awfully grindy? Yes. But I don't think they would be better, if they would despawn. I think that would be a lot worse.

Also, I think lots of players like to play a certain class, and so late in the game, changing your class would be very inconvinient. you would anyway go for the tower of your class as one of the firsts, to get those weapons you want.


The problem with events ending at night/morning is, that, while randomly starting events like goblins and pirates start early morning, you can start these with the summoning items any time you want (which is convinient, since you can fight them when you want) but, so, you could start an invasion, let's say 7:29 PM. and if it would despawn at 7:30, it would been a waste of the summon item. and restricting players when to summon them would be bad.
Not to mention, the martians will invade when you were spotted by a probe, which can happen any time.

You could try something like a time limit, but that also sounds inconvinient, like, what if you did you absolute best even though you had trash gear, and it turned into a long fight, and you cleared it 99% and then, tick-tock, time out! bye bye goblins. Bosses do that too, which can be very frustrating too, it would be bad, if events would do that...
blodd moon and eclipse ends on its own, but you can't technically "clear" the envent. you get cool loot, but there's no real reward after, unlike with some of the events like having the goblin tinkerer move in (after you found him)

The white flag idea sounds interesting, but it might be difficult to use if you're continously spawn-killed, or, if you don't have it in your inventory when you would need it... - plus, in multiplayer it would bring up other problems, like trolls ruining things by dismissing an event the others were looking forward to.

Finding a way that works for every events that can happen randomly is tough... (let's exclude lunar apocalypse from this, that is always started by the player defeating a perticularly tough, late-game boss)

I just did the Expert Lunar Towers for the first time and can now give further feedback on this event.

I was using Shroomite Gear with the rocket helmet and Snowman Cannon throughout the event. I was able to do every pillar without dying at all other than the Solar Pillar (where I got sniped once by a crawlipede for being too careless). So yes, it is completely do-able to one-shot them. It takes a very long time to remove the shields in Expert Mode, though. They should lower the kill requirement by half, then these pillars would be more manageable to one-shot. At the moment it takes too much time to remove the shield.

In terms of arenas for the Pillars, you don't need them because you have access to so many flying items by this point in the game. The only pillar that may give issues based on spawn location is the Solar Pillar.

Moon Lord I have less positive things to say about. This boss is by far harder than any of the Pillars and took me a good 4 tries to defeat it. It has an attack that can kill you in two hits, so dying by this thing only to restart the series of events all over again because of the high crafting requirements for the celestial sigil is absurd. I lost patience and ended up cheating in more copies of the sigil after I made one legitimately. This item should either be reusable or only require 1 of each fragment to craft. It should also be possible to skip the Lunatic Cultist fight and to the pillars if you have defeated the Lunatic Cultist before. These changes should address your concerns and make the Lunar Pillars having a death penalty far more reasonable. As it stands, dying to the Moon Lord is the most infuriating part of the event, so I think this should be higher priority than the Pillars in terms of changing.

So basically, make Moon Lord easier to spawn after clearing the lunar event. Make it easier to summon the lunar event after defeating Lunatic Cultist. Make the Lunar Pillars have a death penalty for dying to them, but lower the kill requirement for each shield by half.

In terms of the "best gear before the event" thing, the only pillar items you can craft before defeating the Moon Lord are super healing potions and two weapons per pillar. The rest is locked behind Luminite, which are dropped from the Moon Lord. I was playing ranger but I ended up sticking with Snowman Cannon for the entire event, including Moon Lord himself. I found that it was doing a lot more work than the Phantasm I crafted. (I actually think Snowman Cannon may be a bit too strong.) Anyways, after doing all of the endgame stuff before the lunar event, I found there is a huge range of weapons and items to try against the lunar pillars. So you'll eventually find something that works for you.

"Also, I think lots of players like to play a certain class, and so late in the game, changing your class would be very inconvinient. you would anyway go for the tower of your class as one of the firsts, to get those weapons you want."

Terraria is a game that encourages flexibility in how you play the game. Artificially restricting yourself to one class for the whole game goes against this design. It isn't inconvenient at all to change classes, since you literally can switch classes just by changing your gear. I had plenty of items stored in my chests that let me switch classes on the fly if my Ranger playstyle wasn't going to get me anywhere. It can be argued that class-specific runs through the game are "challenge runs" which Terraria doesn't have to abide for. Basically, if you are having trouble using one class, switch to another. If you are trying to stick to your class despite it not working out, that's on you, not the game.

"The problem with events ending at night/morning is, that, while randomly starting events like goblins and pirates start early morning, you can start these with the summoning items any time you want (which is convinient, since you can fight them when you want) but, so, you could start an invasion, let's say 7:29 PM. and if it would despawn at 7:30, it would been a waste of the summon item. and restricting players when to summon them would be bad.
Not to mention, the martians will invade when you were spotted by a probe, which can happen any time."

This same thing applies to the nocturnal boss fights, so the solution is the same: Don't summon them late in the day. That's on you if you try summoning them last second. In terms of Martians, they are a bit tricky since they can start at any moment. I would say the current implementation of this event is fine, since dying causes the Martian Saucer to despawn which is enough of a penalty.

"You could try something like a time limit, but that also sounds inconvinient, like, what if you did you absolute best even though you had trash gear, and it turned into a long fight, and you cleared it 99% and then, tick-tock, time out! bye bye goblins. Bosses do that too, which can be very frustrating too, it would be bad, if events would do that..."

I have never had an issue with bosses despawning when the time is up. Beating the boss before day comes is part of the challenge for the nocturnal boss fights. if I had an issue with the time limit, I wouldn't have suggested it for the events. And if you are trying to fight the event with trash gear, you really shouldn't. If invaders come when you are not prepared, it's best to go somewhere else and return to base after the invaders leave. For bosses, the naturally spawning nocturnal bosses will not spawn if you head underground, so they are already doing something kind of similar.
 
@11clock As for what you said about lunar events, I large part agree. I did them again several times lately - part because moon lord caught me off guard, even though I thought I was prepared. the first time he pretty much one-shot me with his deathray, on normal mode (okay, not one, maybe two, but it was ridicolous. XD) another time, he killed me when he barely had much HP left... I needed more fragments for the full armor anyway, but doing the lunar events again and again is hardly any fun, so I agree, this even can get both boring and frustrating after a few tries.

I agree that the summoning sigil should be MUCH cheaper to craft. it's nonsensically expensive.

Dunno how to fix/balance out the pillars, enemy requirements could be less, but I think a penalty for dying to them sounds cruel, considering how ridicolously overpowered they are. Not everyone has the skills to oneshot a tower that requires 100 or more crazy strong things to kill.


I don't agree with your point on class changes. YES, you can change class, and the game is very flexible in that regards. however, I do think, lots of players like class-specific playthroughs, and it allows for more specialisaton in gear regarding that one class, instead of hybrid classes. And if you could for example finish a playthrough up to lunar pillars/moon lord in your selected class, then you must be quite good in that class. changing class before the finale would be really awkward, and in most cases, not preferred, I think. Can you do it? Yes. Do you want to do it? Well... I dunno...

I also disagree with your point on "don't summon them late the day", I think one of the pros of the summoning items is, you can start these whenever you want. generally it could play no role, but it actually can, considering certain items that boost power the day/night, so theoretically, like, if you got a moon stone or moon charm early in hardmode, you might want to face the pirates the night.

Also, martians, are one of the most annoying invasion, and you just say "it's fine if that has no such cancel condition"? why? You can easily trigger the event while building in the outern 1/3 of a world and a probe just spawns, and by the time you could react, it already fled, and you can't continue to build, because you have an army of martians to deal with. You can eat the goblins for breakfast in late game (just mind that you might have to repair and reassing your entire town... frustrating... even if you try to fight them elsewhere, sometimes some of your nearby doors just end up dismantled...), and the pirates posess little challange too, that time, but the martians are quite tough still.
If something, that event could benefit from being able to be cancelled.
However, like with others, I don't really see a "perfect" solution for that issue...

I guess nocturnal bosses despawning not happens too often, because if you have trash gear, you probably end up killed by them, and if you have good gear, you either win, or die because you messed up something. it's very rare that they would despawn, but it can happen, like if you try to cheese the destroyer.

Anyway, lunar events can be quite annoying indeed. same goes for other events. but I don't really see a solution that could work well in all situations...
 
Sorry to dig up an old topic. This seems to be the place to say my peace about this topic. I otherwise wouldn't bother to complain and I love and accept the game at face value.

I recently decided to create a new character and world to check out all the new Journeys End content. I am a veteran player, starting on the PS3 years ago.

My world had about 100 hours into it. I built a ton of infrastructure and developed it to be viable to the end game. I progressed to Hardmode. Didnt break any anvils so I didn't unleash an invasion I wasn't ready for. I continued to collect and hone my equipment and had a very respectable Ranged/Summoner build. I play on medium core difficultly always. The thrill of escaping and surviving a difficult encounter is only mirrored by the feeling of loss and defeat when you die and drop all your gear in a literal hell hole. I always took steps to mitigate the risk of losing equipment by building platforms across one side of hell. In a large map, this is quite an undertaking. Dodging enemies while building is tedious but rewarding work.

So I was finally at the point to fight the Queen Slime and use that equipment to finally release some ores and deal with the consequences. I start the fight with the Queen and lost. The night ends as I am respawning and I am warned a Goblin Invasion is imminent.

All my equipment is at the arena and I have seconds to scurry about, trying to find accessories and equipment to either fight or flee. I dont use auto pause so time is ticking. The invasion starts and a goblin summoner is already flying toward me. I take a few hits (didnt find armor in time) and I am dead. My subsequent spawns and deaths are me trying to get to my hellevator to escape. My bug out gear eventually is dropped into the hole while I am trying to escape. I removed my spawn point at my house in a desperate attempt to move the army out of my house. I end up 20 blocks west of my house. I spawn and die, over and over, in rapid fashion. I finally decided to l spawn, move over two blocks and dig down before I am killed. The plan, is to dig a hole, next to my spawn and dig before I am killed. My hope, is that it will get deep enough so the army follows me down and is despawned once I revive. It takes about 100 deaths to finally get a hole deep enough so that I have just a few seconds to make it back into my house to grab a weapon. I figured I would wear them down another 50% by killing them at my spawn. About 50 deaths later, I am able to get a Bee Gun back to my spawn and I start chipping away. By this time, my house and surrounding area is littered with 100s of tombstones. I finally beat the invasion and was able to get down the hellevator to my gear. By the time I get there, it is gone. I died so many times that over 400 items eventually collected in my world and it despawned all my gear. The invasion ruined my world and character. My only recourse is to move onto another world. 100 hours of work, love, effort and time is wasted. My only hope is to farm a new world and eventually go back. But since all the infrastructure I described is needed to survive and thrive, its pretty much a loss. I am beyond sickened by this and it will be awhile before I can muster the drive to repeat everything I spent the last month doing.

Please, in the name of everything good and just, find a way to rectify this problem. Either increase the item count or mark dropped gear differently than other items. An option to manually end an invasion due to death spawning would work too. I do know one thing for absolute certainty. I will never, ever ever ever, be caught off guard without a viable option to survive in the future. Not sure how since goblin summoners move through walls.
 
I think a time limit that decreases with each death would be much better, it incentives players to quickly kill the invasion mobs alongside ending if people die too much.
 
Also, say you just entered hardmode and had bad RNG and the pirates decided to show up while you were still in prehardmode gear. Now you will basically be spawnkilled over and over until you manage to kill all of the pirates.
That's exactly what happened to me when I first played Terraria on my PC. This is HORRIBLE. I totally agree with you.
What can fix the described issues above is to prematurely end the invasion if all players on the map are dead (counting as a "loss" thus not unlocking the content behind it like the Goblin Tinkerer). The only invasions that wouldn't end with this criteria would be the holiday moon events, since those are on a timer and losing time on death is enough of a penalty already.
Y E S
Another idea is to instead have invasions end at the end of the day (again counting as a "loss"), like how the moon events end at the end of the night.
Also good.
EDIT: I guess I should throw this in as well. Add a time limit to the Celestial Invasion. Say... a full in-game day (24 IRL minutes)? So that this event also has a lose condition.
🤔Maybe?
 
I decided to take my ideas and turn them into a couple of mods.

Losable Invasions
Invasions are given 10 minute timers, and players are given 3+ shared lives (depending on player count). If the timer ends or the players run out of lives, the invasion will stop. If you are playing single player as a mediumcore or hardcore character, dying once will stop the invasion immediately. The invasion being stopped prematurely will not count as a win.

Regenerating Pillars
The pillars will regenerate their shields back to full every 8 minutes. This timer will reset each time a pillar is destroyed. You are given an extra 2 minutes at the start of the event, as well as when a shield is destroyed. I will also look into adding an item to cancel the event if you want to give up.

Losable Invasions will not only raise the stakes for invasions, but they will also no longer be a hassle for underequipped or mediumcore players.

Regenerating Pillars basically just forces you to git gud. If you aren’t efficient with taking them out, you won’t make progress.

The goal of both mods is to ensure that skill is required for progression. You can’t just run at them repeatedly until you win anymore. That said, both mods also add leniency to where you can play sub-optimally and still win (invasions allow for a couple of deaths, pillars only require being fast enough).
 
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I think the punishment outside of not being able to lose comes from the fact that the invasions often come when they're not expected. As a result, you don't have time to prepare for the invasion, and if you're playing with mediumcore & above characters, you'll have a very rough time without proper preparation. As a softcore character, the main inconvenience just comes from the fact that you may potentially have multiple NPCs die, which may lead to housing problems, provided you don't already have enough housing for everyone. I also don't think the celestial invasion should have a timer either. Treating each pillar as a boss in themselves, and the consistent travelling across the world players may have to do if they die, lead me to believe it wouldn't be good. That said, I can see the benefits of incorporating some form of lose condition, but I just don't think it's necessary.
The idea of failing invasions if you die should definitely be added

As for the celestial pillars, I wouldnt really call them an "invasion". They are closer to the eclipse/halloween. In other words, they would not go away if you die, but would go away if not defeated in one ingame day.
 
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