My biggest gripe with 1.3

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ethanciavo

ethanciavo

Terrarian
Now, I'm afraid to talk about this issue on these forums for fear of insulting the community, but I have to talk about this. I was not happy with the beta testing for 1.3. Now, I was not one of the people who was selected to take part in the beta testing for 1.3, but I do know that something deeply wrong must have happened when the community was testing this update. See, I like to play with friends, and so I got a group of friends together to start an expert mode playthrough of 1.3. Over the course of our playthrough, we found one game breaking bug, one fairly large bug, and countless errors with the achievement system. Obviously, the bugginess of the achievement system needs no explanation. 75% of the time, achievements don't register, and when that 25% of the time that you do earn an achievement happens, it will only be given to you, even if the achievement is supposed to be given to all the players on the server. Another somewhat major bug is that the steampunker doesn't sell steampunk wings in singleplayer. This bug may have been fixed by now, but still a bug that shouldn't have been too hard to locate.

However, this next bug is the big one. The showstopper. The impossible. When me and my friends beat the eye of cthulhu for the first time, we were shocked to discover that the eye of cthulhu doesn't drop loot bags unless there is no more than one player nearby. How did the beta "testers" manage to miss such a huge bug? Now, I am aware of the fact that they released an update that fixed this bug, but these bugs are the kinds of bugs that should have been discovered at least a month before the release! When it's time for another major update to roll around, please, re-logic, make sure that these testers are able to do the kind of testing that such a huge update requires.
 
ethanciavo said:
Now, I'm afraid to talk about this issue on these forums for fear of insulting the community, but I have to talk about this. I was not happy with the beta testing for 1.3. Now, I was not one of the people who was selected to take part in the beta testing for 1.3, but I do know that something deeply wrong must have happened when the community was testing this update. See, I like to play with friends, and so I got a group of friends together to start an expert mode playthrough of 1.3. Over the course of our playthrough, we found one game breaking bug, one fairly large bug, and countless errors with the achievement system. Obviously, the bugginess of the achievement system needs no explanation. 75% of the time, achievements don't register, and when that 25% of the time that you do earn an achievement happens, it will only be given to you, even if the achievement is supposed to be given to all the players on the server. Another somewhat major bug is that the steampunker doesn't sell steampunk wings in singleplayer. This bug may have been fixed by now, but still a bug that shouldn't have been too hard to locate.

However, this next bug is the big one. The showstopper. The impossible. When me and my friends beat the eye of cthulhu for the first time, we were shocked to discover that the eye of cthulhu doesn't drop loot bags unless there is no more than one player nearby. How did the beta "testers" manage to miss such a huge bug? Now, I am aware of the fact that they released an update that fixed this bug, but these bugs are the kinds of bugs that should have been discovered at least a month before the release! When it's time for another major update to roll around, please, re-logic, make sure that these testers are able to do the kind of testing that such a huge update requires.
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Why are you upset that a newly released version that they even said would be buggy is buggy?
They are fixing the bugs, they can't find every single bug in a month you know, and some of these bugs are mega hard to replicate anyways.
Would you prefer that 1.3 came in October?
 
The achievement bug is known and dunno why it hasn't been fixed yet. Maybe it's not easy and it may take some time.

I don't know about the second bug, though. What version are you playing?
 
DerpyMustache said:
Why are you upset that a newly released version that they even said would be buggy is buggy?
They are fixing the bugs, they can't find every single bug in a month you know, and some of these bugs are mega hard to replicate anyways.
Would you prefer that 1.3 came in October?
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Looks like you don't have the capacity to read a post. :/

1. Saying that a new version is buggy does not justify it being buggy. Small bugs I can perfectly understand, but I won't accept the huge bugs that should have been incredibly easy to spot.

2. I know they are fixing the bugs. Keep in mind that I am talking about the beta testers who were responsible for finding and reporting bugs before the update is released.
Just because they are fixing these huge bugs doesn't mean that the beta testers didn't do a lousy job finding them before the update came out.

3. The thing is, the beta testers had far more than a month to find all of these huge bugs.

4. Some bugs are hard to replicate, but defeating an eye of cthulhu with more than two players nearby is not "mega hard" to reproduce.

5. Not that a delay until October should have been required to fix these huge bugs, but I would have been happy if they delayed it for a few weeks to make sure that their launch wasn't as rough as it would have been.
 
kilozombie said:
Just another person feeling massively entitled to a perfect update when the dev team isn't sizable enough to make a perfect update.

Move along, people.
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Took the words out of my mouth
[DOUBLEPOST=1438027504,1438027458][/DOUBLEPOST]
ethanciavo said:
Looks like you don't have the capacity to read a post. :/

1. Saying that a new version is buggy does not justify it being buggy. Small bugs I can perfectly understand, but I won't accept the huge bugs that should have been incredibly easy to spot.

2. I know they are fixing the bugs. Keep in mind that I am talking about the beta testers who were responsible for finding and reporting bugs before the update is released.
Just because they are fixing these huge bugs doesn't mean that the beta testers didn't do a lousy job finding them before the update came out.

3. The thing is, the beta testers had far more than a month to find all of these huge bugs.

4. Some bugs are hard to replicate, but defeating an eye of cthulhu with more than two players nearby is not "mega hard" to reproduce.

5. Not that a delay until October should have been required to fix these huge bugs, but I would have been happy if they delayed it for a few weeks to make sure that their launch wasn't as rough as it would have been.
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Why can't you just be happy that there is a new update for :red: sake
 
If you're complaining about the beta testers because you found a few bugs, you might want to be thanking them for the 1000+ bugs you didn't find. ;)

Also, that EOC bug, never happened to me. Source: over 50 playthroughs, over 400+ EOC kills, all multiplayer testing. So obviously that bug is not as obvious as you seem to think it is.

But if you want to be in the shoes of a tester, I'll put you in them. Well, actually just one shoe, since there's a lot more that goes into testing than just "I found a bug"

  • Did you report these bugs?
  • What version did this happen on?
  • What size world?
  • Corruption or Crimson?
  • Hardmode or not?
  • What's your operating system?
  • What achievements weren't triggering?
  • What "countless errors?"
  • "Obviously, the bugginess of the achievement system needs no explanation" Yes it does. You're a tester now. You need to explain all of the bugginess to the developers in order to get it fixed.
  • "75% of the time, achievements don't register." Which achievements? Is that 75% an actual number or just an estimate? What were you doing when it should have registered? Is it all achievements or just a few achievements that don't trigger 75% of the time?
  • "when that 25% of the time that you do earn an achievement happens, it will only be given to you" Which achievements are you talking about?
  • When your friends fought the EOC and it didn't drop loot bags, how many players were there? What were all of their operating systems? Dedicated server or Host and Play? Were you the host? Did this happen every single time, or just the first time? Were they all softcore?

The beta team did a great job, finding bugs that the average player would have probably never, ever came across anyway, but they found them because the intensely meticulous conditions in which they were working. The fact that you found a bug doesn't mean the beta testers did poorly, it means your specific computer specs or connection type could have triggered it. Furthermore, the beta team also has to retest every single bug that gets reported on the forum, to find the real cause of them. Sometimes people report bugs, and it's up to the beta team to find out WHY it's a bug.

The job doesn't end just because 1.3 comes out. And just because 1.3 comes out doesn't mean it's perfect. Also, just because there's people dedicated to beta testing doesn't mean they'll be able to find everything. Because a small group of testers is not indicative, nor is it a microcosm, of every single player in the world. The beta team will not be able to cover every single technological base, because there are some errors that may only be from a technical standpoint, not a gameplay standpoint. And that team of beta testers will not be representative of every single PC capable of running Terraria.

Also, congratulations on finding a bug. I suggest you put a lot more detail (and I do mean a LOT, if you want to get it fixed) into it and put it into this section, along with the many other people who also found bugs.
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?forums/pc-bug-reports.113/
 
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ITT: People take what I'm saying, and twist it into "HEY THIS UPDATE SUX BECUS IT NOT PERFEEECT"

First of all, this isn't a bug report. Ofc if I were reporting a bug, I would give the full description of what happened. But guess what? I'm not submitting a bug report. I'm stating my disappointment in the beta testing that was done for this update.

Second, I wasn't the only person to have issues with EOC loot. http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/eye-of-cthulhus-not-dropping-loot.22546/

Third, I never stated that 1.3 should have been a perfect update. I said that I was not happy with the beta testing job, because the testers missed gamebreaking bugs that should never have been in the initial release.

Also, if you are seriously convinced I was trying to make a bug report, move this thread to the bug report section, and I'll put more details about the EOC bug in for you.

I was playing on a prehardmode, expert, multiplayer world.
I was not hosting (my friend was).
The boss only dropped loot when everyone except one person ran away, and the person who stayed behind killed it.
The eye dropped loot just fine in singleplayer.
No other bosses had been killed when the bug occured.
The bug was replicated consistently at least 4 times.
No other bosses had this issue.
The world was crimson.
I run windows 8.1, and so did two of my 3 friends that were playing. The other person ran windows 7.
The version was terraria 1.3.0.1.
The server was not dedicated, and my friends joined via steam integration.
All of the characters were softcore.
 
The beta testing team is far smaller than the actual playerbase.

If only ~2-3 people found your EoC bug, how the hell can you expect the much, MUCH smaller beta testing team to find it, considering probability?

"Now, I am aware of the fact that they released an update that fixed this bug"

Oh.

Oh, so you're complaining about something that they fixed soon after release.

WHAT MORE CAN YOU WANT FROM THESE PEOPLE?!
 
I think it's very harsh to say that you are disappointed with the beta testing team when you know nothing about them. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way, as in "you know nothing about beta testing or game development", but in a literal way, as in "you have no concrete information on who the beta testers were, how many there were, how much they tested, what they tested, how they tested it, how they were instructed, what their priorities were, what systems they used and so on and so on". What it boils down to is that not only you judge the beta testers on a result as opposed to the process, but you don't even have anything to compare the result with. Like Tsuki said:
Tsuki said:
If you're complaining about the beta testers because you found a few bugs, you might want to be thanking them for the 1000+ bugs you didn't find. ;)
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Secondly, "the Eye of Cthulhu not dropping loot bags when more than one player is nearby" is a very game breaking bug indeed. But you can't reliably pin the cause of the bug on the biggest difference between a situation where the bug does occur and a situation where the bug doesn't occur. There is much more to 'more than one player being present' than just 'more than one player being present', such as certain weapons or accessories being used (which turned out to be the actual cause of the bug).

If you report a bug, be objective about the situation, don't speculate too much. That's the programmers' job.
 
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My biggest gripe with 1.3 isn't a bug; it's a mechanic that's working as intended.

The new banner system grants a banner only to the player who landed the killing blow. In the vast majority of cases, I'm okay with that—but if one of my friends who's visiting my home base kills the 50th of an extremely rare enemy, that's a serious problem, because I'm a collector. They could certainly just give me the banner, but what if neither of us notices? I'd probably be wondering when and where I put my Rainbow Slime banner three days later when I notice my kill tally for it is 59.

This actually did happen with a Mothron banner, very early in 1.3 when neither I nor my friend realized that enemy kill count was per world, rather than per player. We were pretty confused. Mothron is far from the worst banner to lose out on. A Pinky banner would be much worse.

In some cases, you must spend an extremely long time on one world to earn a single rare banner. It seems like a bad position to put people in.
 
I feel as if there's a bit of hyperbole here. Achievements that serve no real purpose other than to prove that you've done something (if it works)? The first/second boss you encounter of which is completely optional to engage and none of its loot is necessary to obtain? With all of these words such as 'deep issues'. Both of them are nowhere near what I consider to be game-breaking, as the phrase defines.

If you want proper game-breaking, then go observe the history of Console/Mobile Terraria.

ethanciavo said:
but these bugs are the kinds of bugs that should have been discovered at least a month before the release!
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You don't seem to understand that bugs can often explode into the game with every version that is released for them to test. The amount of builds games like this go through is probably a great deal. It is anything but 'release to beta-testers, let them explore for bugs for a while, then fix'. It's highly complicated. Fixing bugs could make more bugs happen. Heck, that often happens with a lot of games I've played.

Because of your apparent lack of understanding of what beta testers undertake (judging from what you've written solely), I think trying to put shame on beta testers 'not doing their job properly' is completely uncalled for.
 
Stuff breaks as stuff gets tweaked and added.

It's more irritating than it seems from the outside. Stuff pops up for seemingly no reason whatsoever and there's no way to magically know what went wrong where unless you do every conceivable little thing on every conceivable build, of which there are more than you might think as well. Flak basically nailed it.
 
ethanciavo said:
Now, I'm afraid to talk about this issue on these forums for fear of insulting the community, but I have to talk about this. I was not happy with the beta testing for 1.3. Now, I was not one of the people who was selected to take part in the beta testing for 1.3, but I do know that something deeply wrong must have happened when the community was testing this update. See, I like to play with friends, and so I got a group of friends together to start an expert mode playthrough of 1.3. Over the course of our playthrough, we found one game breaking bug, one fairly large bug, and countless errors with the achievement system. Obviously, the bugginess of the achievement system needs no explanation. 75% of the time, achievements don't register, and when that 25% of the time that you do earn an achievement happens, it will only be given to you, even if the achievement is supposed to be given to all the players on the server. Another somewhat major bug is that the steampunker doesn't sell steampunk wings in singleplayer. This bug may have been fixed by now, but still a bug that shouldn't have been too hard to locate.

However, this next bug is the big one. The showstopper. The impossible. When me and my friends beat the eye of cthulhu for the first time, we were shocked to discover that the eye of cthulhu doesn't drop loot bags unless there is no more than one player nearby. How did the beta "testers" manage to miss such a huge bug? Now, I am aware of the fact that they released an update that fixed this bug, but these bugs are the kinds of bugs that should have been discovered at least a month before the release! When it's time for another major update to roll around, please, re-logic, make sure that these testers are able to do the kind of testing that such a huge update requires.
Click to expand...
To note: I'm not counterattacking this with any malicious intent. That said, there has never been a beta test of any game I know of where the devs make the product, and don't touch it as the testers test. In English, the game is constantly tweaked over, and over, and over. Any one of these tweaks can easily break something entirely unrelated. Yes, 1.3 was actually being developed up until release, and even after.

We tested each new update within 1.3 with full playthroughs as well as focused content. It was not easy, and very, very exhausting -- and yes, we did lose our work. Something people don't realize as they sign up for beta: it's not easy, and it's not about you. It's about the game. It's a commitment, much like a hobby or a second job, and not a place where you go to "get heard" (fun fact: Relogic listens to you guys a heck of a lot more than you would think. And there are many suggestions we beta testers have that are never given a second glance --it's *their* game, after all. Not ours.)

In summary: the bugs you found could very well have started happening as of 1.3.0.6, considering how programming works. These issues sound familiar, and I remember reporting similar ones. But, again, *any* fix or addition could have broken the game in this way. Which is why we do new playthroughs when they do something big.
 
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First I want to start by saying that I understand your anger about this bug as it cost you a boss fight reward when you justly deserved it, but hear me out.
A famous saying I will paraphrase because I don't remember the exact words goes something like this:

'For every bug one finds and conquers, eleven take it's place.'

Programming is a complex thing, and programming a game is an even more complex thing. A computer is simultaneously a genius and as smart as a rock. It will do what you tell it to as quickly as it possibly can, but only exactly, to the letter, literal interpretation of what you tell it to do. This is often the source of most problems: A minor typo results in the game doing completely different things or skipping code because it can't reason that you made a typo, it just goes by what it sees. Often times these can add up over time, and as they are fixed deeper ones appear underneath, some of which did not exist until new layers were added. And this isn't just with typos, you could miss a code bracket or something similar, something minor. One gear out of place and suddenly the game is singing another tune.
 
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If a bug or other technical issue costs me items or rewards, then I will lift my otherwise rock-solid stance against cheating (there's really no point in collecting, otherwise; might as well stop playing) in an attempt to gain back what was lost.

For example, yesterday the game froze after saving my character, but before it was finished saving my world. That's the first crash I've ever experienced while playing Terraria. I'd just put away my Solar Flare armor, Yo-Yo Bag, Mechanical Glove, Godly Terrarian, Legendary Star Wrath, a stack of Ichor Potions, and a stack of Heartreach Potions, and pulled out a Nebula armor setup instead.

That's a big loss. Thankfully I had extras of all of that stuff (or the components for them), so I duped exactly what I lost and threw away any extra.

Anyway, this game is actually hideously complex at this point. It's packed with tons of features, items, enemies, AI types, scripts, checks, et cetera and so on. I'm genuinely amazed at how few bugs there are, especially so soon after 1.3's release.

It's one thing to complain about bugs if you're frustrated, but blaming the developers is a bit silly in most cases. I don't think Re-Logic is to blame for slacking off or for letting any particularly onerous bugs slip through.
 
Of course it's not really the devs fault. They aren't as much to blame as the people who let the bug slip by. Maybe I was being a bit too harsh on the beta testers. I know mistakes happen, but when it's time for the next major update to roll around, if re-logic does indeed select beta testers, whoever those who are selected should take greater caution. And when I say whoever is selected, I mean anyone. Maybe it's me, maybe it's you, maybe someone completely different.
 
...I really don't think you understand how much combination of things could produce the bugs and the insane amount of time it'll take to go through every little detail of the game...over and over again.

You already have some response by testers (I believe) in the thread already. Don't dismiss their words completely and still think they're doing a bad job.

I'm fairly sure that they're just doing unpaid work too, for something that warrants paid work because of how much time you are asked to invest in it.

Seriously, if I had to do what Omnir has described, I'd be straight and clean fed up of Terraria. Everyone would be cheering because 1.3 has come out and I'd be here just ignoring them.
 
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