Weapons & Equip New utility weapon: the Dream Piercer (and its upgrade)

[MoultonLava]

1. Liking making weapons is totally fine. The statement isn't helpful to the conversation, though, and feels more like a deflection.

Fair enough, I was a bit ticked off, so I didn't think as much as I usually do when I replied.

2. It's not exactly secret, just random chance. Again: Not a helpful statement.

True, should have said something else.

3. Understandable sentiment, but you need to be more careful of how you say it. The wording, combined with the not entirely relevant statements preceding it makes it sound more dismissive than you may intend.

That is true, I do regret wording it that way. Should've said something kinder.

 

[Dispenser (Engineer)]

This should just be an accessory. It's not very common that weapons give you buffs, so this seems kind of modded and would be out of place. An accessory would just fit the game better. This would remove the whole "classless" vibe from the weapon, sure, but who really cares? There is literally no viable classless weapon in the game, and there doesn't need to be.

If feel that this would be absolutely busted as an accessory. It seems to me that this suggestion is balanced around switching to an inferior damage dealing option and getting really close to enemies to gain the reward, while if this if was an accessory most classes could just hang back and spam projectiles until they get the buff. I heavily disagree that this would be better as an accessory as it would be horribly unbalanced if you don't have to get within breath smelling distance of enemies.
I also disagree that this seems modded, but I can see where your are coming from as it is similar to the Lunic Eye from Calamity. However, just because it is a similar concept doesn't mean that it would be out of place in the vanilla game, as I would say that stuff that feel modded tend to be VERY flashy and over the top while this seems like with a few adjustments it could fit in pretty well.
Yeah, there does not need to be any classeless weapons but you could say that a lot of stuff don't need to be in Terraria. This is an argument that always makes me want to drown myself in the Leith whenever I see it. With this sort of reasoning you could argue that 1.4.5 shouldn't be released because "none of the content needs to be in the game" and "the game is fine as it is". Of course the content from 1.4.5 doesn't need to be in the game, but part of the beauty of Terraria is how many options you have. You don't have to use the same crap that everyone else does even if it "isn't viable", you can massive building projects even though they "aren't neccessary". The argument of "this doesn't need to be in the game" or "this is not viable, lets remove it" have been done to death on these forums and I feel that if the people who made these arguments had their way we would be stuck with a game where we do all but fight bosses in prebuilt arenas with the same ing weapons and tactics as everyone else. I am so over this .
(Sorry if I got a bit angry at the end there, I'm just sick of the argument that things that aren't neccesary or viable should be removed from the game, because I'm sick of seeing it all over the forums)

 

[77ForumBone]

If feel that this would be absolutely busted as an accessory. It seems to me that this suggestion is balanced around switching to an inferior damage dealing option and getting really close to enemies to gain the reward, while if this if was an accessory most classes could just hang back and spam projectiles until they get the buff. I heavily disagree that this would be better as an accessory as it would be horribly unbalanced if you don't have to get within breath smelling distance of enemies.

You could always nerf the accessory though.

I also disagree that this seems modded, but I can see where your are coming from as it is similar to the Lunic Eye from Calamity. However, just because it is a similar concept doesn't mean that it would be out of place in the vanilla game, as I would say that stuff that feel modded tend to be VERY flashy and over the top while this seems like with a few adjustments it could fit in pretty well.

Being modded doesn't mean being flashy, it just means not fitting in with the base game. And I agree with that last part about the adjustments, which is why I think (with some changes ofc) this weapon could turn into an accessory.

This is an argument that always makes me want to drown myself in the Leith whenever I see it. With this sort of reasoning you could argue that 1.4.5 shouldn't be released because "none of the content needs to be in the game" and "the game is fine as it is". Of course the content from 1.4.5 doesn't need to be in the game,

The thing is with "modded" Terraria content being added is that while a lot of ideas seem modded in concept, the developers are able to make changes to said ideas to make them fit the game better (like me wanting to have this become an accessory). And even then, some things aren't completely vanilla, like shimmer for example. It's great to try new things, but it's even more important to find some way to still have connections to the base game, otherwise you get a bunch of mismatched suggestions.

Also, I was only talking about this suggestion feeling too modded and that with some changes it could be in the base game, not that it doesn't need to be in the game. Please correct me if I am reading your meaning wrong though - I'm not the best at understanding what others say.

ou don't have to use the same crap that everyone else does even if it "isn't viable", you can massive building projects even though they "aren't neccessary". The argument of "this doesn't need to be in the game" or "this is not viable, lets remove it" have been done to death on these forums and I feel that if the people who made these arguments had their way we would be stuck with a game where we do all but fight bosses in prebuilt arenas with the same ing weapons and tactics as everyone else. I am so over this .

I don't even know what you are talking about here. This is about the devs adding new weapons and making them fit into the game better, not building projects or creativity. Again, maybe I'm reading your point wrong, but it seems you kind of went off topic.

 

[Casey Howley]

this weapon could turn into an accessory

I still don't understand your obsession with turning this thing into an accessory.

Putting that aside, what specifically could be adjusted here to keep it a weapon, in your opinion?

 

[77ForumBone]

I still don't understand your obsession with turning this thing into an accessory.

This should just be an accessory. It's not very common that weapons give you buffs, so this seems kind of modded and would be out of place. An accessory would just fit the game better. This would remove the whole "classless" vibe from the weapon, sure, but who really cares? There is literally no viable classless weapon in the game, and there doesn't need to be.

While I can agree this would probably be better as an accessory, I feel the need to bring up a few things:

^ There are the reasons why it should become an accessory. Besides, you agreed.

Putting that aside, what specifically could be adjusted here to keep it a weapon, in your opinion?

My best idea is to make the weapon get the melee/mage (idk) class and nerf the buffs given to the player, but I feel like an accessory would be better. You could refine my idea if you want to change my mind though.

 

[MoultonLava]

Why are you against weapons giving buffs, when weapons like the Life Drain and Ham Bat exist, and they give you strong buffs?

 

[Casey Howley]

Besides, you agreed.

Okay, first off, I'm allowed to change my mind.
But even so, I do like the idea of it being a weapon, even if it might fit better as an accessory.

My best idea is to make the weapon get the melee/mage (idk) class and nerf the buffs given to the played

That said, I more or less agree with this.

 

[77ForumBone]

So we came to a decent conclusion. Give the weapon the buffs, but also give it a class. That way, the weapon can fit the game (in terms of it having a class), and it being unique in that it gives the player a buff. Obviously I think an accessory would be better, but this idea is fine.

 

[MoultonLava]

hmmmm, @77ForumBone and @Casey Howley have good points. I am not totally sure what class to give it though, since it has aspects of Mage and Melee...

 

[MoultonLava]

Not to forget the buff. I won't touch Overwhelmed, fine as is, but I do agree the Dreamer buff is a bit strong.

 

[MoultonLava]

im honestly considering making a mod for this item to see if it actually works. Maybe I'll add an accessory form since ForumBone thinks it is the best way, even though I do personally disagree.

 

[MoultonLava]

And if I do, of course testing it in action against my favorite foe: the Empress to see how good it is as support (also I considered it, it should be Melee)

 

[Dispenser (Engineer)]

You could always nerf the accessory though.

Being modded doesn't mean being flashy, it just means not fitting in with the base game. And I agree with that last part about the adjustments, which is why I think (with some changes ofc) this weapon could turn into an accessory.

The thing is with "modded" Terraria content being added is that while a lot of ideas seem modded in concept, the developers are able to make changes to said ideas to make them fit the game better (like me wanting to have this become an accessory). And even then, some things aren't completely vanilla, like shimmer for example. It's great to try new things, but it's even more important to find some way to still have connections to the base game, otherwise you get a bunch of mismatched suggestions.

Also, I was only talking about this suggestion feeling too modded and that with some changes it could be in the base game, not that it doesn't need to be in the game. Please correct me if I am reading your meaning wrong though - I'm not the best at understanding what others say.

I don't even know what you are talking about here. This is about the devs adding new weapons and making them fit into the game better, not building projects or creativity. Again, maybe I'm reading your point wrong, but it seems you kind of went off topic.

Sorry that I got a bit pissed near the end of that. I was trying to argue that just because something isn't similar to other stuff in the game that doesn't mean that it cannot fit in the game. Yeah I recognize that you have to tie the suggestion to the base game in some way. I agree that this item needs some changes to be in the base game, but my main feeling was that this item would either need to remain as a short range weapon or to be converted into an accessory and recieve major nerfs for it to be added to the game. I got a bit heated because I took your suggestion as saying "Oh we shouldn't add this suggestion in this form because there is nothing like it in the game and/or it wouldn't be optimal" which is an argument that I see a lot on these forums and really pisses me off. Yeah, I did get a bit off topic, I just find that the people who use the "Oh we shouldn't add this suggestion in this form because there is nothing like it in the game and/or it wouldn't be optimal" argument are the same people who hate building, do nothing but fight bosses, see anything that isn't fighting bosses as a waste of time, and in general seem to have a pretty dim view of how other people might want to play the game. I understand that you may not be like that but at the time I saw that argument as supporting that view.
I feel that a short range weapon that classes have to get close to use, while giving up time spent doing strong damage in exchange for some decent buffs would be a better adition to the game than an accessory that turns any weapon in the game into a mana restoring, buff pumping beast, which was part of the point I was trying to give in my previous post. You would have to remove a lot of the buffs such as mana restoration or tone them down greatly like the health regen for this to be viable as an accessory.

 

[77ForumBone]

Sorry that I got a bit pissed near the end of that

Its all good

hate building

I love building! Its a good way to relax. unlike fishing where you click a button every ten seconds and that's all

I feel that a short range weapon that classes have to get close to use, while giving up time spent doing strong damage in exchange for some decent buffs would be a better adition to the game than an accessory that turns any weapon in the game into a mana restoring, buff pumping beast, which was part of the point I was trying to give in my previous post. You would have to remove a lot of the buffs such as mana restoration or tone them down greatly like the health regen for this to be viable as an accessory.

Yeah, and I'm starting to agree with the weapon staying a weapon. It would either have to be melee or mage though.

 

[Dispenser (Engineer)]

Its all good

Thanks

I love building!

Good to hear!

Yeah, and I'm starting to agree with the weapon staying a weapon. It would either have to be melee or mage though.

I still think it would be good for it to not be tethered to a class for two reasons:
1. It would allow every class to utilize the effects
2. If you made it exclusive to one class, the community would be pissed and would demand similar weapons for each class. It would be much simpler to just give one weapon that every class can use.

 

[Baconfry]

hmmmm, @77ForumBone and @Casey Howley have good points. I am not totally sure what class to give it though, since it has aspects of Mage and Melee...

My vote is for mage. This is a weapon whose major upside is the ability to restore mana, so you may as well double down on that.

The Overwhelmed debuff is not necessary. Players are already encouraged to switch weapons after using the Dream Piercer because it's a slow weapon that does very little damage.

I would also remove all the other effects that don't happen in Hollow Knight when the player uses the Dream Nail on someone. When designing collab weapons, try not to exceed the scope of the source material. It is already unique enough as a melee-ranged weapon that restores your mana.

 

[MoultonLava]

My vote is for mage. This is a weapon whose major upside is the ability to restore mana, so you may as well double down on that.

The Overwhelmed debuff is not necessary. Players are already encouraged to switch weapons after using the Dream Piercer because it's a slow weapon that does very little damage.

I would also remove all the other effects that don't happen in Hollow Knight when the player uses the Dream Nail on someone. When designing collab weapons, try not to exceed the scope of the source material. It is already unique enough as a melee-ranged weapon that restores your mana.

Fair. So notes:
Make it Mage
Remove Overwhelmed for the original Dream Piercer
I am too bad at coding to make the dream thing so I won’t do that

 

[Baconfry]

I am too bad at coding to make the dream thing so I won’t do that

You could probably just copy snippets of whatever code Lucy the Axe uses when she yaps.

I think it is not realistic to add a dream line for every single enemy in the game, but it would be a lot more reasonable to make it usable against NPCs and code it to deal way less damage to them.

 

[MoultonLava]

You could probably just copy snippets of whatever code Lucy the Axe uses when she yaps.

I think it is not realistic to add a dream line for every single enemy in the game, but it would be a lot more reasonable to make it usable against NPCs and code it to deal way less damage to them.

Yeah fair
I do feel like Lucy should have more lines than what she currently does

 

[Coleyohley]

I like the reference, but Mana is such a miserable non-mechanic that I feel that the whole point of the weapon is a bit wasted. I do like the secondary buffs, but the movement buffs seem extremely weak: Movement Speed (the % stat) is nearly useless as it does not stack with boots, and all speed boots provide 100% or more. That acceleration value is also incredibly low; Magiluminescence currently gives 75% and even that feels like it's not nearly enough, at least for me.

I think the health regen is a bit weak too. At best, each successful strike will only restore 16 HP (20 when attuned), which I don't think is worth it for such a risky attack, especially in higher difficulties where getting hit will make you  lose 10 times that number.

Back to the mana point though, with 300 Max Mana (obtainable with a Crystal Ball and most hardmode magic armours) and Super Mana Potions, the amount of damage that magic weapons actually lose from drinking potions when needed is rarely more than 10%, which makes anything that restores or saves mana extremely weak, as even an accessory that granted  infinite mana would rarely be stronger than a Sorcerer Emblem.

Needing to pull off a special, risky attack to restore a resource is always a fun idea, but mana is a nearly meaningless resource and I can't really think of another resource that would make sense given the reference.

I do like the damage buffs, though I think they could warrant being a bit stronger since this weapon requires you to get in close, and staying away and not risking yourself getting hit is likely going to increase your odds of winning more than the damage buff it currently has.