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Patching up Boss RNG a bit

LoM2

Retinazer
Hello everybody! We're going to be fixing that boss RNG a bit today.
Not by much, a lot of bosses will still be unaffected. But still fixing to some degree. Now shut up and listen.

I actually started on this idea while working on a larger project. Will still be implemented there but this honestly deserves it's own thread, so here we go.

Now. We're going to be ignoring most of the Pre HM bosses while working on this (I mean, come on, Queen Bee isn't that hard to grind.). I made a few sprites but honestly not many are needed. Right now I'm aiming at Plantera, The Golem, and Duke Fishron. (Moon events aren't too bad and the Mechs have pretty much no RNG at all, not including vanity.)


All three of these bosses will now drop one extra item alongside what they normally do. This item will be purely material and can be used to craft most of their respective drops.

Plantera:
Enchanted Leaf (I tried)

Golem:
Sun Scale

Duke:
Essence of the Sea (I ran out of ideas)

Each boss will drop 3-4 materia. Each drop will require more than that.
Recipes:

+
x10 =


+
x 10 =
(I know this kinda sucks for the crimson. Any better recipes would be appreciated, otherwise crimson can deal with it.)

x 20 + x 5 +
x 8 =

+
x10 =

+
x 10 =

(I left out the Grenade Launcher b/c it's the first rocket weapon you obtain (and it's 100% first kill.) Also the Pygmy staff because I believe it has a drop chance separate to the other stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
EDIT: I was actually right about the Pygmy Staff. Killed Plantera: Got both the Wasp Gun and the Pygmy Staff.

(This one inspired this entire idea. Also the one I plan to use in my bigger suggestion.)
+
x8 =

+
x15 =


x15 + x 10 +
x10 =


x 30 +
x 10 +
x5 =


+
x15 =


+
x10 =


x20 +
x15 =


+
x10 =

Honestly I was considering just leaving the Duke out of this, considering he has a 1/5 drop chance for most of his stuff anyways.
x 30 +
x10 =


+
x 8 =


+
x 8 =


+
x 10 =
(That's a water bolt.)

+
x 8 =


+ x8 =

Now, before you go screaming at me that it's OP and whatnot: Everything here requires you to defeat the boss at least two (Most of them 3-5) times. This is so that you're guaranteed to get at least something you want without having to grind for five hours. (Golem's not too bad, but planteras can take a while to find and if you're not endgame, build a suitable area for, and Fishron is just a pain in general.)

Also because I needed the Sun Scales for my other idea and thought that another armor material for the Golem was kind of overkill and that it should get some other purpose.

Feedback on balance is appreciated, I can raise or lower the amt of material dropped or required as needed. (Rhymes! Kind of .-.) Thanks for reading!
 
Last edited:

Lecic

Steampunker
Fishron Wings should just use Souls of Flight. Also, definitely Bee Gun for Stynger, because 1) Puns and 2) Venus Magnum is still a viable weapon at that part of the game
 

Everybody

Terrarian
Hello everybody! We're going to be fixing that boss RNG a bit today.
Not by much, a lot of bosses will still be unaffected. But still fixing to some degree. Now shut up and listen.

I actually started on this idea while working on a larger project. Will still be implemented there but this honestly deserves it's own thread, so here we go.

Now. We're going to be ignoring most of the Pre HM bosses while working on this (I mean, come on, Queen Bee isn't that hard to grind.). I made a few sprites but honestly not many are needed. Right now I'm aiming at Plantera, The Golem, and Duke Fishron. (Moon events aren't too bad and the Mechs have pretty much no RNG at all, not including vanity.)


All three of these bosses will now drop one extra item alongside what they normally do. This item will be purely material and can be used to craft most of their respective drops.

Plantera:
Enchanted Leaf (I tried)

Golem:
Sun Scale

Duke:
Essence of the Sea (I ran out of ideas)

Each boss will drop 3-4 materia. Each drop will require more than that.
Recipes:

+
x10 =


+
x 10 =
(I know this kinda sucks for the crimson. Any better recipes would be appreciated, otherwise crimson can deal with it.)

x 20 + x 5 +
x 8 =

+
x10 =

+
x 10 =

(I left out the Grenade Launcher b/c it's the first rocket weapon you obtain (and it's 100% first kill.) Also the Pygmy staff because I believe it has a drop chance separate to the other stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

(This one inspired this entire idea. Also the one I plan to use in my bigger suggestion.)
+
x8 = (I was considering the Bee gun instead of the Venus Magnum because it has a more similar shape, thoughts?)

+
x15 =


x15 + x 10 +
x10 =


x 30 +
x 10 +
x5 =


+
x15 =


+
x10 =


x20 +
x15 =


+
x10 =

Honestly I was considering just leaving the Duke out of this, considering he has a 1/5 drop chance for most of his stuff anyways.
+
x10 =


+
x 8 =


+
x 8 =


+
x 10 =
(That's a water bolt.)

+
x 8 =


+ x8 =

Now, before you go screaming at me that it's OP and whatnot: Everything here requires you to defeat the boss at least two (Most of them 3-5) times. This is so that you're guaranteed to get at least something you want without having to grind for five hours. (Golem's not too bad, but planteras can take a while to find and if you're not endgame, build a suitable area for, and Fishron is just a pain in general.)

Also because I needed the Sun Scales for my other idea and thought that another armor material for the Golem was kind of overkill and that it should get some other purpose.

Feedback on balance is appreciated, I can raise or lower the amt of material dropped or required as needed. (Rhymes! Kind of .-.) Thanks for reading!
Mind if I attempt to fix up some of these sprites?
 

Qw2

Official Terrarian
I like it, seems logical interesting. I think the essence should have a renewable use, though, because after making these weapons, the essence would pile up.
smile.gif


(Also, not sure if you left out The Axe on purpose, or if it was accidental.)

Support!
 

LoM2

Retinazer
I like it, seems logical interesting. I think the essence should have a renewable use, though, because after making these weapons, the essence would pile up. View attachment 34102

(Also, not sure if you left out The Axe on purpose, or if it was accidental.)

Support!
I left out the Axe because it's not part of Plantera's normal drops, it's a novelty tool, and honestly I would be fine with just raising it's drop chances as it's not much more than a "showoffy" item. It's not like I'm going to try to beat the Golem with the Axe.
 
That ia an excellent solution. I wanted the picksaw but I used all my luck during the pumpkin moon (who needs 5 stake launchers and 3 candy corn rifles? ) i had a similar idea. My idea however was to use one of the drops that you have too much of.
 

TMB50

Terrarian
I can see a few flaws in the recipes:
The first one is that they require to defeat the corresponding boss several times to get a reward. Why it is unfair is pretty obvious.
The recipes often tend to use outdated weapons for no real reason, even through the player would have likely sold said weapons otherwise, meaning that they would have to be left there taking up needless space, which is particularily bad for the Venus Magnum, the Picksaw and the Stynger, as they use up weapons that are already outdated several tiers ago, with said weapons not making thematical sense, even though they could be easily replaced with materials and/or weapons which would be more fitting: The Venus Magnum could use a Revolver and Illegal Gun Parts, the Picksaw could be crafted without any secondary materials, the Stynger could use Illegal Gun Parts, the Flower Pow and the Nettle Burst could use Jungle Spores and Vines (If the latter were to be problematic, Angry Trappers would be modified so they would drop them as well).
A particularily bad one is the Razorblade Typhoon, which should use a Spell Tome instead, as it is only used for 3 items and is a very fitting material.
 

zimberzimber

Terrarian
2 issues:
♦ The Vilethorn is found on Corruption, which means if you are with a bloody world, you can't obtain the Plantera-vilethorn-thingy (forgot the name)
♦ The K.O cannon as a crafting recipe is a bad idea. Consider the Harpoon instead.
 

divebat

Skeletron
Like the idea! But honestly, I don't know if going craft able this way is the best idea... Pulse Bow is similarly tiered and in somes opinions better then the Tsunami, plus that would just add to the RNG. I don't like the thought of upgrading, earlygame weapons still have there uses for challenges ect... Im more of a fan of something like Zomoos way of Golem dropping Mystery Machinery ect... I also think Hallowed Gear should be upgraded to Picksaw and hatchet. Good suggestion though :)
 

LoM2

Retinazer
I can see a few flaws in the recipes:
The first one is that they require to defeat the corresponding boss several times to get a reward. Why it is unfair is pretty obvious.
The recipes often tend to use outdated weapons for no real reason, even through the player would have likely sold said weapons otherwise, meaning that they would have to be left there taking up needless space, which is particularily bad for the Venus Magnum, the Picksaw and the Stynger, as they use up weapons that are already outdated several tiers ago, with said weapons not making thematical sense, even though they could be easily replaced with materials and/or weapons which would be more fitting: The Venus Magnum could use a Revolver and Illegal Gun Parts, the Picksaw could be crafted without any secondary materials, the Stynger could use Illegal Gun Parts, the Flower Pow and the Nettle Burst could use Jungle Spores and Vines (If the latter were to be problematic, Angry Trappers would be modified so they would drop them as well).
A particularily bad one is the Razorblade Typhoon, which should use a Spell Tome instead, as it is only used for 3 items and is a very fitting material.
The entire point is that you'd have to kill a boss several times. I'm not trying to REPLACE the current drops, this would be an addition so that you're guaranteed something you want even with the worst RNG luck possible.

As for the other issues stated, I was attempting to pair up things that are either spiritual or direct upgrades of each other, though I'll def. take some of the material suggestions into consideration. (And honestly Spell Tomes need a lot more uses, but throwing in one endgame weapon that's traditionally obtained in a different manner might not be the solution.)

2 issues:
♦ The Vilethorn is found on Corruption, which means if you are with a bloody world, you can't obtain the Plantera-vilethorn-thingy (forgot the name)
♦ The K.O cannon as a crafting recipe is a bad idea. Consider the Harpoon instead.
I addressed the vilethorn thing in the OP, though I'm not particularly sure how I could work around that. Might need to end up using materials. (And it's Nettle Burst.)
I honestly don't see much wrong with the KO cannon, if you're talking about RNG, it's not a terribly hard weapon to get. I feel like it fits better than the harpoon. If you have a different issue w/ it then please point it out :)

Like the idea! But honestly, I don't know if going craft able this way is the best idea... Pulse Bow is similarly tiered and in somes opinions better then the Tsunami, plus that would just add to the RNG. I don't like the thought of upgrading, earlygame weapons still have there uses for challenges ect... Im more of a fan of something like Zomoos way of Golem dropping Mystery Machinery ect... I also think Hallowed Gear should be upgraded to Picksaw and hatchet. Good suggestion though :)
I'll change the Pulse Bow to Ice bow, which does reduce the RNG to some degree and involves more than waiting for the Travelling Merchant. Also it fits better, don't know why I didn't do that originally.

Also I assume if you're doing a challenge w/ earlygame weapons, you're not going to be upgrading... Either way, the only early game weapon that I think one would have trouble reobtaining is the Vilethorn, and I'm probably going to change that one anyways. (I suppose the Laser Rifle could be "difficult", but it shouldn't be too hard if WoF gets it's own fix, like Baconfry's Emblem thing.)
 

RyuSoul

Terrarian
By this logic, we will have to grind the items prior to crafting the bosses respective drops.
Dude this will only make it take longer because not everyone will find these items before defeating these bosses. I know from experience that grinding a boss systematically will get you more items faster. Also, the Vilethorn. Really? Players who have a Crimson don't have access to it.

I see what you are trying to do, but some revision may be required.
Then again you could be onto something. I guess i'll wait and see.
 

SedrioX

Skeletron Prime
There's no way to "patch", reduce or increase RNG other than to remove it entirely, and that's what you did here. You made it so grinding takes a specific amount of time instead of random, which is worse than it sounds.

Finding rare item > Crafting rare item

No Support -
 

LoM2

Retinazer
So... by "patching" you mean "tearing off completely and sewing a new appendage in its place?" -_-

Putting that aside, you actually made the grinding worse.


Sorry, I'm just having trouble seeing this as a "solution."
A) By definition, technically no, unless I'm fully replacing the boss's drops with just material.

B) How, exactly? If we do a few calculations:
Plantera: 6 drops. Assuming your luck is PITCH PERFECT, (First one is grenade launcher, no matter what) You can get all six drops w/ six planteras, ignoring the Pygmy Staff and The Axe. This would make it require 5, so even for a perfectly lucky player it would technically reduce the grinding, and for an unlucky player who keeps getting Wasp Guns when they actually need a Venus Magnum, it changes it so that they're guaranteed to get what they want eventually, within 3-5 boss kills.

Golem: 8 drops.
Perfect player: 8 kills.
PP w/ Materia implemented: 6-7 kills

Duke: 6 drops
PP: 6 kills
PP w/ Materia: 5 kills

So... not entirely seeing how I'm making the grinding worse. Maybe if you're trying to go after multiple weapons, but I'm very doubtful RNG is mean enough to give you nothing but Flower Pows or something for 10 kills.

By this logic, we will have to grind the items prior to crafting the bosses respective drops.
Dude this will only make it take longer because not everyone will find these items before defeating these bosses. I know from experience that grinding a boss systematically will get you more items faster. Also, the Vilethorn. Really? Players who have a Crimson don't have access to it.

I see what you are trying to do, but some revision may be required.
Then again you could be onto something. I guess i'll wait and see.
Very few of these items are really based on grinding... I mean, I suppose you could argue that the Bee gun and the Laser Rifle are potential problems (might be just me but I always end up with multiple bee guns...), Laser Rifle I might change around a bit (Space gun + illegal Gun Parts?). Everything else seems to be very easily obtainable in the course of a normal playthrough though.

And I still don't see how this would slow down boss grinding... it's not like I'm replacing the boss drops. If you want to kill a bunch of planteras, go right ahead.

And Vilethorn I plan to change, I haven't yet because I'm lazy. Check replies above.

There's no way to "patch", reduce or increase RNG other than to remove it entirely, and that's what you did here. You made it so grinding takes a specific amount of time instead of random, which is worse than it sounds.

Finding rare item > Crafting rare item

No Support -
Technically, it's not removing RNG entirely b/c one is still perfectly capable of obtaining a weapon before getting enough materia to craft something.

While the "Finding > Crafting" part I do agree with, and have argued for on many threads, it's not a very rewarding feeling to repeatedly kill golems without getting what you want. Especially since at some point, the battles aren't even fun anymore, it's just "toss another energy cell in and swing terra blade until it's dead.)

I'm not sure if this is necessary for Fishron, because even in Endgame armor he's still a challenge, and he has less drops than the others. Will think over that one.

I don't think this solution would kill off RNG any more than making a boss not drop x if it's already dropped x w/o dropping everything else, which is really the best alternative I can think of.
 

LeFr33

Official Terrarian
This has been suggested before, I believe

but with Magical wood and shiz, I don't support either of these.

It's always cool to be like "OMG WILL IT DROP WHAT I WANT, WILL IT??????" and then bam, nope.

It's cool to keep on farming at that point.
 

SzGamer227

Spazmatism
A) By definition, technically no, unless I'm fully replacing the boss's drops with just material.
My bad... I missed that part. :confused: Having a boss drop materials to craft its loot in addition to dropping the loot itself is rather odd and slightly redundant.

Anyways, it takes an average of 11 kills to get the primary 5 Plantera and Fishron drops, and an average of 22 for Golem's.
 

Scironex

The Destroyer
There are... a lot of thematic problems with this, and a select few mechanical ones.

The big thing is that there is absolutely no reason to include older weapons in the recipes, especially, especially, if they're leagues out of tier.

For some of them, (Especially that Staff of Earth) the inclusion of arbitrary materials, especially ones that can be obtained a day in, is silly, and adds nothing.

For the Fishron Wings in particular, there is absolutely no reason to force players to use ten more souls. That's arbitrary and pointless.

Just make the items crafted with the drops alone. That's how the EoC does it, and that's how Terraria does it. (at least, pre-1.2, it did.)

As for the Duke's materials, how about Dragon Hide(/Skin/Scales. He is at least a third dragon, after all.)?

I might hand you some sprites later.
 
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