Please increase the buff limits on players.

I do beleive it is an intentional limit
It seems less intentional when you take into account that debuffs are not given their own slots. Environmental buffs that aren't timed and quickly come and go are not given their own slots either. The effective buff limit fluctuates wildly because the slots are shared. The devs don't have a straightforward number to balance around because of this. The buff/debuff system behaves poorly as you get close to the cap, and won't keep important buffs. If any of these factors were to change, a buff limit increase might not be needed. The current design requires many free slots as a safety margin for when unexpected buffs/debuffs appear.
 
Has any one looked at the code that determines buff limits/display and seen if there was anything that would make just removing the buff cap hard?
 
Honestly, whether intentional or not, most of the more focused buffs won't normally exceed 4, especially if Class specific; for example.
  1. Mana Regen (Potion)
  2. Mana Regen (Lantern)
  3. Mana Power (Potion)
  4. Mana Power (Buff Station)
Anything else stacked ontop of something like this is excessive & arguably Metagaming. That being the case, I don't feel as if a change is really necessary, as the average player isn't likely going to be using seven+ power buffs on-purpose, as apposed to a person playing Master Mode or higher difficulty.

20200605220752_1a.jpg


Basically, if this all comes down to Metagaming, it's always going to be up to the player to devise strategies or workarounds when it comes to stuff that arguably breaks the game. As you can see above, when I didn't know any better, a large number of these active buffs weren't needed for what I was doing, which was farming enemies. That means that, at it's core, using buffs is essential to your build, just as much as the accessories you equip. If that means you have to pick & choose what you keep on-hand, or suffer the random loss of essential buffs, then I support it remaining unchanged. There's really no reason to buff "buffs" in this game, as they're already pretty OD... already. 🤨🥤
 
If they just made aesthetic buffs like pets not take a buff slot, then that would help alleviate things a lot, and wouldn't affect balance at all either.
 
Has any one looked at the code that determines buff limits/display and seen if there was anything that would make just removing the buff cap hard?

From the point of view of a modder: Changing buff limit is labor intensive, error prone, and requires breaking save file compatibility for full support.
From the point of view of Relogic: Increasing the buff limit is easy, but makes the UI look bad and may negatively impact performance. Removing the buff limit, changing the UI to scale better, or removing performance cost of empty buff slots requires a non-trivial amount of work so won't be approved.

A tModLoader mod existed that allowed ulimited buff slots, but comments suggest is was very buggy and is no longer updated. Their mod illustrates the difficulty of making this type of mod bug free, because their mod forgot to patch the QuickBuff feature, and would stop using potions when the player had 22 buffs.
Player.maxBuffs is a constant that is propagated into 50-60 places in the code. You need individually find and patch all of those, and that massive set of patches needs to be reviewed and modified with every game update. If you miss any, it may appear to work but cause random bugs. It will take as much work as making 20-30 "simple" mods. The devs can fix this easier because the constant is not propagated in their code, so if they have been following typical programming practices they can change just a few lines of code if they only want to increase the cap. The game code loops over empty buff slots even though it does not need to, so if the slot limit is increased without fixing this, cpu usage will increase very slighty even when no buffs are active. This bad behavior could be a reason the devs would refuse to increase it. Hard capping buffs also hard caps the cpu performance cost of the buff system well below what it could reach if it were uncapped.

Buffs are saved in the player's savefile. If the limit is increased, buffs over 22 will be lost when saving the game. Fixing that would break save compatibility with the base game, making this a huge pain for modders. If the devs change the buff limit, they can introduce a new save-file revision to save the added buff slots. For developers, save file format revisions are totally normal and not something to worry about. Player savefiles might increase in size very slightly (8 bytes per slot) if the game continues to write empty buff slots to disk or players save with lots of buffs active.

Making buff slots scalable instead of increasing the hard cap makes the code modifications more complex. For the devs this change would increase the work required greatly compared to modders, since modders already need a massive number of changes to modify the buff cap at all. For the devs, fixing the issue of the game scanning over empty buff slots requires almost as much effort as removing the cap entirely, but should still be much easier than modders due to lack of constant propagation making the required code changes easier to find.
 
If they just made aesthetic buffs like pets not take a buff slot, then that would help alleviate things a lot, and wouldn't affect balance at all either.
I mean, this kinda makes sense, but when you consider the fact that Light Pets compete with a.) Shine/ Night Owl Potions & b.) Torches, it's technically a Buff. Other pets follow this same rule, Mounts included, even if some Pets are just there for vanity purposes; everything seems to use up a slot, one way or another. It's like I said, if you wanna fight seriously, you should probably stay away from Vanity Pets, Potion indulgence & the like, as they just get in the way. If enemies are dying in one hit because your Toon is so powerful, there's no reason to NOT use a Vanity Pet, as more buffs are likely just overkill at that point. Seems pretty reasonable to me...
 
Honestly, whether intentional or not, most of the more focused buffs won't normally exceed 4, especially if Class specific; for example.
  1. Mana Regen (Potion)
  2. Mana Regen (Lantern)
  3. Mana Power (Potion)
  4. Mana Power (Buff Station)
Anything else stacked ontop of something like this is excessive & arguably Metagaming. That being the case, I don't feel as if a change is really necessary, as the average player isn't likely going to be using seven+ power buffs on-purpose, as apposed to a person playing Master Mode or higher difficulty.

View attachment 297008

Basically, if this all comes down to Metagaming, it's always going to be up to the player to devise strategies or workarounds when it comes to stuff that arguably breaks the game. As you can see above, when I didn't know any better, a large number of these active buffs weren't needed for what I was doing, which was farming enemies. That means that, at it's core, using buffs is essential to your build, just as much as the accessories you equip. If that means you have to pick & choose what you keep on-hand, or suffer the random loss of essential buffs, then I support it remaining unchanged. There's really no reason to buff "buffs" in this game, as they're already pretty OD... already. 🤨🥤
If you consider standard buffs like Regen, Iron Skin, Life Force, Endurance, etc. to be "metagaming" then you shouldn't be discussing in here. These are buffs that are used across ALL classes in the game and are invaluable. You also seem to not take into account buffs from your weapons, armor sets, accessories, and environmental effects. Not everyone is a god tier player that can solo play Master Mode without buffs.
 
If you consider standard buffs like Regen, Iron Skin, Life Force, Endurance, etc. to be "metagaming" then you shouldn't be discussing in here. These are buffs that are used across ALL classes in the game and are invaluable. You also seem to not take into account buffs from your weapons, armor sets, accessories, and environmental effects. Not everyone is a god tier player that can solo play Master Mode without buffs.
Ok, let's look at it. 🤔🥤 When you first start out, here are some of the universal buffs you'll likely have.

Early game:
  1. Campfire Buff
  2. Cat Statue Buff
  3. Enemy Banner Buff
  4. Summoner/ Archery Potion
  5. Thorns/ Heartreach Potion (evil Biome only)
  6. Swiftness Potion
  7. Well-fed Buff
  8. Minion Buff
Mid pre-Hardmode:
  1. Heart Lantern Buff
  2. Iron Skin Potion
  3. Life Regen Potion
  4. Obsidian Skin buff (circumstantial)
  5. Night Owl/ Shine Potions (circumstantial)
  6. Builder/ Battle/ Calming Potions (circumstancial)
  7. Featherfall/ Flipper/ Water Walking/ Gills Potions (circumstantial)
  8. Sonar/ Fishing/ Crate Potions (circumstantial)
  9. Ammo Reservation Potion
Late pre-Hardmode:
  1. Rage/ Wrath Potions (evil Biome only)
  2. Endurance Potions
  3. Inferno Potions
  4. Luck Potions (circumstantial)
Hardmode:
  • etc.
As you can see, even being a bit reckless, at most you'll have up 17 active buffs at one time mid pre-Hardmode; Late pre-Hardmode, about 21. The reason I divided them up like this & placed some together, is that they are either difficult to get without intention (i.e. both World Evil exclusive buffs), or are used in concert together anyhow, or not at all. None of this has anything to do with being MLG, crafting Potions is intention, requires recipe knowledge, or a very heavy dedication to fishing. You can't get around it, a player has to somewhat know what they're doing to maintain a Potion arsenal.

Because a large number of Potions are divided up by progressing, it give a player more-than-enough time to decide what buffs they consider essential. Trying to suggest that Metagaming is necessary in modes like Classic or Expert is a reach, as there's plenty of OD strats that exist to kill Bosses outside of using Potions. Even if that wasn't the case, nost focused build would look something like this, at most.

A player Class specific, Metagaming with buffs:
  1. Campfire Buff*
  2. Heart Lantern Buff*
  3. Cat Statue Buff*
  4. Bewitching Table Buff*
  5. Enemy Banner Buff*
  6. Iron Skin Buff
  7. Endurance Potion Buff
  8. Wrath Potion Buff
  9. Class Damage Potion Buff
  10. Class Damage Station Buff+
  11. Swiftness Potion Buff
  12. Thorns/ Heartreach Potion Buff
  13. Life Regen Potion Buff
  14. Minion Buff
I might've missed one or two, but this set-up is more-than-enough to compete with Master Mode or lower difficulties. At most, that's a total of 15-16 buffs, with enough room for whatever other debuff might befall the player. 22-16=six (6). Unless a player is blasting through the game, the likelihood of being inflicted with six different debuffs at one time is highly unlikely.

Now, if you decide to start specializing your character & choosing buffs like Shine/ Night Owl, or Obsidian Skin/ Flipper Potions to be essential, you just have to make room for it, the same way you would any accessories or Armor pieces. It's actually pretty hard to get 14+ buffs going at one on-purpose, so I don't see how this isn't Metagaming, as stacks & stacks of potions don't just fall on the players lap. To get a fairly decent amount, you have to go at it with some kind of intention. 🤔🥤
 
Most of the time, I know that I would not use potions for everyday adventuring, even on expert mode. with the exception of well fed.
But there are still a few common buffs there, like pets, light pets, banners, etc. probably a campfire/fireplace, and other stuff like sunflowers on the surface, heart lanterns and star in a bottle here-and-there, etc. Bast statues are rare, so they're only at arenas, usually.

At almost all part of the game, mobs don't require potions to beat. So, while adventuring, you won't likely every encounter having too many buffs/debuffs.
The only time when this problem appears sometimes is boss fights and events. Perticularly late-game, where you have so many things at your disposal, and some bosses are very tough to beat, so you want to be as perpared as possible.

so...
(At the fight figh expert moonlord, let's see, I had...)
at the arena:

0. & 0. pet and light pet. turned off, because of the limit

1. campfire
2. heart lantern
3. star in a bottle (optional, based on class. though kind of useless)
4. bast statue
5. honey (maybe)

6. banners (they weren't necessary there, they were elsewhere, but the arena was in their range
7. sunflowers (maybe. same reason as the banners)
(these surely appeared a few times while I flew away far and back. although naturally those times I was out of the range of a few other buffs)

8. bewitching table
9. crystal ball

10. regen potion
11. swiftness potion
12. ironskin potion
13. endurance potion
14. heartreach potion
15. lifeforce potion

16. summoning potion (because summoner)
17. mana regen potion (summoner/mage hybrid)
18. magic power (same reason)
19. ichor flask (summoner. if using whip)

(flask is negligable if using only magic weapon the whole battle)

20. stardust dragon (because of summoner)

21. lvl 3 well fed

22. rage potion
23. wrath potion (either, or both)
24. luck potion
...wait, that's already way too much...

even if we get a few out of the equation, we're very close to the limit, right? some of them won't stay, if you move around a lot, but in most other boss fights (where you might won't go so all-out), you usually will stay mostly near the same place.

Moon lord does not inflict... ah, wait, he does, inclicts "moon bite" debuff. that's one more.
You also will quite likely use a healing potion at least once in the battle, which means one more.
If you rely on mana potions, you will also end up with mana sickness, which is one more.

Point being, this is the only case where I encountered this problem, on my earlier (summoner) playthrough. and don't think I encountered it anywhere else.
Point being, I think the only case where this might happens is the toughest battles. Because most people won't use potions for everyday adventuring, and only use a few at special times (e.g. spelunker, when looking for life fruits)
Even in the moon lord fight, you will most likely stay very close to the limit, but actually below it. but just barely, and the moon bite + potion sickness might will just push it over the limit, and end up arbitrarily cancelling your mana regen, or the stardust dragon, or something, which will be quite unpleasant mid-battle...
 
Ok, let's look at it. 🤔🥤 When you first start out, here are some of the universal buffs you'll likely have.

Early game:
  1. Campfire Buff
  2. Cat Statue Buff
  3. Enemy Banner Buff
  4. Summoner/ Archery Potion
  5. Thorns/ Heartreach Potion (evil Biome only)
  6. Swiftness Potion
  7. Well-fed Buff
  8. Minion Buff
Mid pre-Hardmode:
  1. Heart Lantern Buff
  2. Iron Skin Potion
  3. Life Regen Potion
  4. Obsidian Skin buff (circumstantial)
  5. Night Owl/ Shine Potions (circumstantial)
  6. Builder/ Battle/ Calming Potions (circumstancial)
  7. Featherfall/ Flipper/ Water Walking/ Gills Potions (circumstantial)
  8. Sonar/ Fishing/ Crate Potions (circumstantial)
  9. Ammo Reservation Potion
Late pre-Hardmode:
  1. Rage/ Wrath Potions (evil Biome only)
  2. Endurance Potions
  3. Inferno Potions
  4. Luck Potions (circumstantial)
Hardmode:
  • etc.
As you can see, even being a bit reckless, at most you'll have up 17 active buffs at one time mid pre-Hardmode; Late pre-Hardmode, about 21. The reason I divided them up like this & placed some together, is that they are either difficult to get without intention (i.e. both World Evil exclusive buffs), or are used in concert together anyhow, or not at all. None of this has anything to do with being MLG, crafting Potions is intention, requires recipe knowledge, or a very heavy dedication to fishing. You can't get around it, a player has to somewhat know what they're doing to maintain a Potion arsenal.

Because a large number of Potions are divided up by progressing, it give a player more-than-enough time to decide what buffs they consider essential. Trying to suggest that Metagaming is necessary in modes like Classic or Expert is a reach, as there's plenty of OD strats that exist to kill Bosses outside of using Potions. Even if that wasn't the case, nost focused build would look something like this, at most.

A player Class specific, Metagaming with buffs:
  1. Campfire Buff*
  2. Heart Lantern Buff*
  3. Cat Statue Buff*
  4. Bewitching Table Buff*
  5. Enemy Banner Buff*
  6. Iron Skin Buff
  7. Endurance Potion Buff
  8. Wrath Potion Buff
  9. Class Damage Potion Buff
  10. Class Damage Station Buff+
  11. Swiftness Potion Buff
  12. Thorns/ Heartreach Potion Buff
  13. Life Regen Potion Buff
  14. Minion Buff
I might've missed one or two, but this set-up is more-than-enough to compete with Master Mode or lower difficulties. At most, that's a total of 15-16 buffs, with enough room for whatever other debuff might befall the player. 22-16=six (6). Unless a player is blasting through the game, the likelihood of being inflicted with six different debuffs at one time is highly unlikely.

Now, if you decide to start specializing your character & choosing buffs like Shine/ Night Owl, or Obsidian Skin/ Flipper Potions to be essential, you just have to make room for it, the same way you would any accessories or Armor pieces. It's actually pretty hard to get 14+ buffs going at one on-purpose, so I don't see how this isn't Metagaming, as stacks & stacks of potions don't just fall on the players lap. To get a fairly decent amount, you have to go at it with some kind of intention. 🤔🥤
You completely skipped over armor buffs, weapon buffs, and accessory buffs that can/will proc when you use them. Palladium Armor, Titanium Armor, Brain of Confusion, the Honey accessories, Panic Necklace, whips, etc., etc. Those all give a player additional buffs when things happen. (Namely taking or dealing damage.) That's still well more than what you listed. You also seem to have skipped over various buffs that I had already listed previously.
 
You completely skipped over armor buffs, weapon buffs, and accessory buffs that can/will proc when you use them. Palladium Armor, Titanium Armor, Brain of Confusion, the Honey accessories, Panic Necklace, whips, etc., etc. Those all give a player additional buffs when things happen. (Namely taking or dealing damage.) That's still well more than what you listed. You also seem to have skipped over various buffs that I had already listed previously.

Because a large number of Potions are divided up by progressing, it gives a player more-than-enough time to decide what buffs they consider essential. Trying to suggest that Metagaming is necessary in modes like Classic or Expert is a reach, as there's plenty of OD strats that exist to kill Bosses outside of using Potions. Even if that wasn't the case, nost focused build would look something like this, at most.
Nope, I already addressed this pretty thoroughly. By the time a player starts to specialize in their Class Build, they have enough time to decide what is essential & what isn't. I didn't want to accuse you of theorycrafting, but you likely are, since bringing up the Panic Necklace; what would've made more sense, is a buff like Ballista Panic!, or the like. The issue with this is context, some potions have no place in Boss fights & some are more desirable when exploring. I don't think it's too much of a task for a player to manage their potion buffs, because at most, as I already said, a player Metagaming will have anywhere from 15-16 active buffs, some fluctuating because of being furniture items, & in the unlikely scenario you describe of 18 buffs. That still leaves room for up to (4) four debuffs or unexpected character buffs.

The buff system doesn't need to be changed, Metagamers just need to learn to adjust to the limitations of the system. This isn't anything unusual, Metagaming will always push a videogame to it's limits & it will likely always be up to the players doing it to create strats around it. The game doesn't always have to meet the playerbase halfway, unless it makes sense to do so, but stacking buffs isn't one of those instances. 🤨🥤
 
... I didn't want to accuse you of theorycrafting, but you likely are ...
There are bug reports of this issue. Players have documented the buffs they were using. This thread was opened because Sprite experienced this issue in practice. For these examples, either the buff limit or the buff overwriting behavior took them by surprise. There are probably more reports and even more unreported bad experiences.

Exhibit A: @Lura Nik: "At some moment I noticed that no Terraprisma around. I waited for some time if it is coming back..."
Exhibit B: @Eclipse70: "I realised that my buffs have been disappearing in the middle of events/boss fights, minions included..."
Exhibit C: @Sora_92: "random banner arbitrarily cancelled my mana regen potion's effect, and I was just baffled why won't the mana regenerate?!"
Exhibit D: @Sprite: "... the game is automatically deleting my summons, and I'm needing to resummon them all mid-fight"
 
There are bug reports of this issue. Players have documented the buffs they were using. This thread was opened because Sprite experienced this issue in practice. For these examples, either the buff limit or the buff overwriting behavior took them by surprise. There are probably more reports and even more unreported bad experiences.

Exhibit A: @Lura Nik: "At some moment I noticed that no Terraprisma around. I waited for some time if it is coming back..."
Exhibit B: @Eclipse70: "I realised that my buffs have been disappearing in the middle of events/boss fights, minions included..."
Exhibit C: @Sora_92: "random banner arbitrarily cancelled my mana regen potion's effect, and I was just baffled why won't the mana regenerate?!"
Exhibit D: @Sprite: "... the game is automatically deleting my summons, and I'm needing to resummon them all mid-fight"
I understand that something like this can happen, but it's just players discovering a limitation to the game & being taken aback by it. It's also important to note that, this issue wasn't really that big in 1.3.5, because stacking buffs was something mostly exclusive to Metagamers & players who did PvP. I'd bet money that most of the players who reached the buff limit were playing Journey Mode. As I said before, reaching this limit isn't something that's easy to do on accident, but if you have unlimited everything, you get to Metagame for free, without the context.

I fully understand that it's jarring, but it's not something that needs to be addressed, players are just seeing what it's like to Metagame, because Journey Mode breaks the game in ways they're not accustomed to experiencing. It's not lost on me that it can be a head scratcher when it first happens to you, but if you have context to support it, it makes perfect sense why the limit exists. That's why I keep trying to tell players that Metagaming without any context will lead you to drawing bad balancing conclusions; Terraria is a unique circumstance where the average player & Metagamers can coexist, because it's designed that way. Not sure if it's by accident or purpose, but this is what often happens... (i.e. accessible fighting games, tier lists, etc.)

Edit: Also, I'd like to add that I was around when a lot of players really wanted an NPC added that sold potions, I think some Mods even exists that offer that feature. Stacking an absurd number of buffs is gamebreaking, which is one of the reasons I suspect it was never added. Also, I can assure you that a majority of the players who ran into this issue don't have an Herb Farm/ Engine to support the idea that they fully understand the investment required to be an Alchemist in Terraria, Alchemy Table & all. It's extremely difficult to do, is my point.
 
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Just for clarification, there are two suggestions people are advocating for:
- Fixing the buff overwriting "bug"
- Increasing the buff limit
 
Just for clarification, there are two suggestions people are advocating for:
- Fixing the buff overwriting "bug"
- Increasing the buff limit
Ask any of these players suggesting this change, to show you their Classic Character's (or Mediumcore, Hardcore Character's) Alchemy Engine/ Farm & I'll support the idea 1000%; $200 says they can't (post or DM me your Paypal if you prove me wrong). 😒🤷‍♂️
 
... I'd bet money that most of the players who reached the buff limit were playing Journey Mode. ...
Although a somewhat unlikely scenario, you don't need any consumable items to hit the buff cap. Also, you keep leaving things out in your estimates like Werewolf/Merfolk, Rod of Discord, Potion Sickness, and also assume pet and lightpet are always disabled, conflicting furniture is never used, and the player only summons one minion type. "You are playing the game wrong," is not a reasonable response to these objections.

Found potions from chests, slimes, fishing rewards, etc. ensure that even casual players can accidentally hit the limit. Do you think a typical player would never be able to save up 8 or so potion types for a boss or event? Wooden fishing crates alone give 10 types of buff potions! No alchemy engine is needed. I can at least confirm now that some are on master mode where there is a strong incentive to hoard potions for boss battles and events.
Just for clarification, there are two suggestions people are advocating for:
- Fixing the buff overwriting "bug"
- Increasing the buff limit
Fixing the buff overwriting "bug" is kind of impossible without changing slots. Right now debuffs have to overwrite a buff when buff slots are full because buffs and debuffs share slots. Implementing some kind of priority system for which buffs to remove when out of space might help but it is overly complicated for how little benefit it provides.

I don't think there is a good solution that does not involve increasing buff slots. Changing minor things like making pets and light pets not take up a slot makes too small of a difference for the effort. Some buffs could be made mutually exclusive to make hitting the cap more difficult, but that would be a very controversial change.
 
@Toxophilite [East]

Here's a screenshot of my base/house on the current/lates playthrough (relevant to the thread)

Albus - stardust armor.png


There's a large storage vault under, but that's not related to alchemy. there are also planter boxes, but doesn't have an actual complex greenhouse there, it's just 10-15 planter boxes each, at towns related to whatever herb, e.g. moonglow at jungle town.
The alchemy corner is very compact, placed next to the bathroom for easy access to water (for bottled water) - there's also a glass kiln in the basement to make bottles (why can't you actually just buy they from the merchant?)
the left glass chest holds bottles, bottled water, herbs, and other ingredients, like some fish like prismite, armored cavefish, variegated lardfish, etc. iron ore is stored in the chest for metals above the hellforge, but it's close enough to reach from the 2nd floor. the right glass chests has potions, whether brewn or found in chests.
it's compact and easy to use without having to run around too much looking for stuff in your storages.

I'm not doing industrial amount of alchemy, only brew potions prior to cases that require it (boss fights, events, or specific potions when adventure needs it (for examle spelunker, only when looking for specifically rare treasures (life fruits) or want to see how big a vein of ore is (regarding clorophyte in the jungle)

have each relevant towns built near large lakes, to have a calm fishing spot for most of the relevant fish.

it's a softcore character, in an expert mode world.
I used to play only normal mode in the past, so while now I'm not bad on expert anymore either, I try to utilise potions at most boss fights. because expert can be tough. but I will not brew potions for everyday use. that's too much a hassle, and generally unnecessary.


Initially, I knew very little about potions at the very first playthroughs. mostly learned about them via mods - alchemist NPCs mostly, where I started to use some potions for boss fights, since they were easy to get. once 1.4 came out, I'm playing vanilla (wanna play modded too, hopefully T-modloader updates soon...) and since there's no brewer NPC, I decided to learn a bit about alchemy, and brew some potions. So, I have this compact alchemy corner design, and have some planter boxes at towns - sometimes larger greenhouses too, depening on playthrough. - and most towns are built near lakes.

But with more than, umm, like 2 000 hours in the game, I think it's not that perticularly special, that I do brew some potions too. I did not done that, when I was new to the game.


Anyway. Point being, I don't brew tons of potions, just a few that I use for mostly boss fights. but it is not journey mode.
And, the only one case where I actually noticed that I went past the buff limit was the battle with moon lord. because this is expert, and I didn't wanted to have Albus turned into a pile of ashes by Moon Lord's deathray in 5 secons. on the first try, it still didn't took him longer than 10-15 seconds to fry my summoner with the deathray. even with tons of buffs, it took me around 15 tries (I cheated in like 20 celestial sigils, because redoing the lunar apocalypse a bajillion times is just awful), to defeat moon lord twice for enough luminite for the full stardust armor.
I developed some strategies, heavily relying on mobility, instead of trying to stand ground, which will not work well... XD

----------

Anyway, actually, I think I've noticed something here.
Almost all (if not all) cases here who talk about exceeding the buff limits are players who had/have a summoner class playthrough. Including me too. Though not pure summoner, but a summoner/mage hybrid (though more on the summoner side)

What I think is, it might be about that it do happens sometimes, that we get past the buff limit (at a few boss fights) but due to the boss fights being fast paced, we might not notice a buff getting cancelled on its own. like half of the usual buffs for boss battles are quite passive - like ironskin, or endurance - and are hard to notice, whether it is active or not, mid-battle.

however when crucial "buffs" getting discarded that are extremely noticeable, we will, obviously, notice it. almost all examples were about the minion(s) getting de-summoned, I think it was only me who also brought up an example with mana regen potion (also a very noticeable one mid-fight)

so, I think, it might be possible, that the more focus summoner class got with 1.4.1 - and therefore more players trying it - brought this issue a bit more in highlight again, because the buff limit is almost never exceeded normally, the only case when it tends to happen is late-game boss fights, where it might also happened with melee or ranger, etc. but they might often not notice a passive buff getting cancelled (like ironskin, or regen potion) but summoners usually have their summons in the first slot (after pet and light pet, but they will be disabled for these fight usually, to free two slots) which is what most likely will end up cancelled by the game, upon exceeding the limit. ...right?

So, I think, this is mostly about an issue which is rare, but probably very rarely appears with all classes, however only very noticeable with summoners.
 
Although a somewhat unlikely scenario, you don't need any consumable items to hit the buff cap. Also, you keep leaving things out in your estimates like Werewolf/Merfolk, Rod of Discord, Potion Sickness, and also assume pet and lightpet are always disabled, conflicting furniture is never used, and the player only summons one minion type. "You are playing the game wrong," is not a reasonable response to these objections.
I wouldn't suggest a person is playing the game wrong, only that they are likely Metagaming without context, there's a difference. It's hard to have these kinds of discussions with a player who doesn't understand what that means, unless they are accustomed to breaking videogames. For example...
  1. ) Imagine if a player was allowed to execute a Raging Demon on their opponent by pressing a single button (Street Fighter V).
  2. ) Imagine if a player was able to do a Perfect God Fist with Kazuya, every time, by pressing a single button (Tekken 7).
My point is that players are getting to do that, or something similar in 1.4.1, without understanding the ramifications that come along with it. Summoner for example, is a rare case that I can speak for, since I've been in arguments about the Class before it was updated to what we now have in 1.4.1, & believe me when I tell you that the concept of using different Minions in concert with one another, as simple as it is, is very new. The buff limit is easy to break because a lot of players are now Metagaming, without realizing it, but I'm not sure how many other ways I can explain it. 🤷‍♂️ 🥤

Found potions from chests, slimes, fishing rewards, etc. ensure that even casual players can accidentally hit the limit. Do you think a typical player would never be able to save up 8 or so potion types for a boss or event? Wooden fishing crates alone give 10 types of buff potions! No alchemy engine is needed. I can at least confirm now that some are on master mode where there is a strong incentive to hoard potions for boss battles and events.
It's like I said earlier, if you're just haphazardly using potions, the likelihood this will happen increases, but it's still a very small chance. If you're doing this, a player should quickly learn that only using essential buffs will prevent such a thing from happening. It's just the result of hitting the videogame ceiling; it's a lot more common than people might think. Yes, it's certainly annoying when you don't understand what's going on, but perfectly reasonable when you do, which is why I'm attempting to explain it. Buffs in this game are already pretty busted & a LOT of other things in the game have been greatly improved, if we keep this up, we're gonna break Terraria! 😒🥤
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@Sora_92 , this is one of the many reasons I was against buffing Summoner Class so heavily, it would cause a bunch of unforeseen issues. Nobody agreed with me, apparently, not even the devs & this is another possible result of that. Things is, we now have to accept the consequences of tampering with an already fragile system, because the more stuff you keep stacking on, the closer you get to breaking the game entirely. Exceeding the buff limit wasn't something I was particularly worried about, because Alchemy is such a niche way to play & I didn't really pay much attention to the buff limit in 1.3.5 anyhow.
At a certain point we need to stop though, because buffing buffs more, is an extremely bad idea! Cool build btw! 😊 <3
 
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@Toxophilite [East]

Thank you XD

I'm not quite sure though if summoner got heavily buffed, more like, it actually turned out to be quite an useful class as pure as well, whivh it originally wasn't very good with, especially early game. I still combine it with magic weapons though, because some minions just have problems with some bosses.

But I think, as for alchemy, the thing that might makes it more likely that this issue appears is, as you said too, journey mode. I don't think summoner is relevant there at first - it only becomes that, because they have more buffs (summons) and are most likely will notice it right away, if the game de-summons their minions.
So, it's that, some might use buffs for everyday adventuring.

But while I wouldn't do that, because on non-journey, it's a hassle to brew them, I think it's perfectly fine for anyone to use them, if they want.
And otherwise, especially on higher difficulty, and especially late-game bosses... it can be very tough, so I think it's justified if you wanna go all out on buffing yourself as much as possible. and if you actually went through the trouble of getting the ingredients and brewing the potions, then it's not quite fair, if you can't use them because of buff cap, or the game will cancel some of them, because of a random zombie banner or something.

I don't think buffs would break the game. and if you actually go as far to get all those potions, why to punish you for it by you're not allowed to use all of them? Yes, it could get to ridicolous levels, but who cares? Terraria can be played in so many ways! If someone wants to get a bajillion buffs because that makes them more confident that they can tackle a certain boss, then why not?

By the way, another observation is, that almost all cases here with stuff exceeding the buff limit are almost always like like 2-3 additional buffs/debuffs. so, adding something like, one more row - how many buffs a row has? 11? adding something like one more row would likely solve the issue.
To begin with, this almost never appears on non-journey mode, and almost always appears only, at a few late-game boss fights/events. something like one more row of buffs/debuffs would be plenty, and likely never push the buffs to that limit again (with the exception of, if you wanna use a bajillion buffs on journey "because it's free anyway") - that still can be an issue, but the other issues most likely would be solved.
 
I don't really get the reasoning behind arguing against increasing buff/debuff slots. If implemented correctly it has no negative consequences for those who weren't exceeding them before. If it is specifically a potion thing, potions could have their own cap. As I said before, the balance is all messed up right now because so many different systems all share one set of slots.
 
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