Other Please make Terraria for Windows 64-bit in the next update!

[Techdude594]

Hey Terrarians!

The title is self-explanatory, Terraria for Windows deserves to be 64-bit.
Why, you may ask? Well, if you don't already know, all 32-bit programs share a RAM pool of 4GB. This is quite small.

To apply this to Terraria, whenever you load a heavily populated world, or a few large mods, you may get close to this 4GB limit, or even surpass it! And when that happens, that's when issues start to occur. Heavy and frequent stuttering/frame drops, crashes, or the game just refusing to load straight out. This would all be fixed if Terraria was 64-bit, as the RAM pool for 64-bit applications is MUCH larger, about 2^64 bytes can be accessed in that case. (correct me if I am wrong) This would allow those of us with more capable hardware to push the game harder with more mods, etc. And for other users, it would still likely improve performance, as there would be much more overhead in terms of RAM limits. You wouldn't have any of that stuttering due to limited RAM anymore.

I hear that 1.3.6 is going to be focused on balancing, tweaking (polishing), and optimizations. And this suggestion fits right in!


So please, Terraria devs, just make Terraria for Windows 64-bit, Linux/Ubuntu already has a 64-bit version of the game (not sure about Mac), so why can't Windows users reap the benefits of 64-bit as well?

 

[BrusselSprouts693]

That discusses things I dont understand, but since I have no clue what it means, it sounds like it would work, so I support!

 

[Kazzymodus]

So first of all, I will correct you on being wrong, as your calculation is off by a factor one billion: it's 2 to the power of 64 bytes, not gigabytes. Still not an amount of memory that any application would realistically need (or any computer currently in existence would realistically have), but hey, you explicitly asked for it.

Now, I'm by no means an expert on how difficult or feasible it would be to convert Terraria from 32-bit to 64-bit, but what I can tell you is that XNA, the framework Terraria is built upon, does not have 64-bit libraries: as long as Terraria uses the current 32-bit libraries, it simply can not become a 64-bit application. As far as I'm aware, there are only two real workarounds to this problem: the first is to rewrite the used libraries into 64-bit, and the second is to migrate engines. Neither of these are at all feasible, and if you're going to commit to the latter you might as well rewrite the entire game while you're at it.

Which brings me to the most important aspect of this suggestion: is it worth the time and effort? In my personal opinion, no, it's not.

As far as I'm aware, vanilla Terraria can run small and medium worlds flawlessly on the allocated maximum of 4.2 GB, and while I have heard of issues with large worlds, I don't believe they are problematic enough to become unplayable. So the real benefits of going 64-bit would go to people who play mods, and while I absolutely think that game companies should cater to the wishes of their players (where reasonable, of course), I don't think spending massive amounts of time and effort on something that doesn't benefit (most) vanilla players is not the best use of their resources, especially if that time could instead be spent on actually developing content for all players. What's more, converting Terraria to 64-bit wouldn't slow down content development, it would effectively pause it.

Of course you can argue that converting Terraria to 64-bit could be considered an investment for the future, and that future updates could take full advantage of the new benefits of this conversion. But at the same time, you do have to remember that Terraria is 7 years old by now. As far as its 'longitude' goes, it's finished: the devs have stated they have no intention of going beyond the Moon Lord. Latitude-ally (I just made that up) it can still grow, but even then the developers have stated they are very wary of bloat. So you do have to ask yourself the (slightly pessimistic) question of how long Terraria still has before Re-Logic moves on, willingly or not. And if such an 'investment' would actually pay off in the end. Personally, again, I don't think it would.

And finally, while most computers these days have 64-bit operating systems, not all of them do. And while 64-bit operating systems can run 32-bit applications, the inverse is not true, meaning that if this update is mandatory, Terraria would effectively become unplayable for anyone with a 32-bit OS. To counter this, you'd have to develop a 32-bit and a 64-bit version in parallel, and not only is that a huge time sink, but if the 64-bit application would indeed be fundamentally different to the 32-bit one, then that would also render crossplay impossible, unless you invest another huge amount of time and effort into fixing that.

As always, though, I'm not a member of Re-Logic. If they decide that going 64-bit is the right thing to do, they will. All I can say is that in my personal opinion, I highly doubt they will, and in the event that they do, it would be a project of a version 1.X magnitude, definitely not something you could fit into the scope of 1.3.6 (which I believe is the last confirmed large update before 1.4).

 

[MACMAN2003]

As far as its 'longitude' goes, it's finished: the devs have stated they have no intention of going beyond the Moon Lord. Latitude-ally (I just made that up) it can still grow, but even then the developers have stated they are very wary of bloat. So you do have to ask yourself the (slightly pessimistic) question of how long Terraria still has before Re-Logic moves on, willingly or not.

Well, on the bright side we've got T:OW to look forward to.

 

[Kazzymodus]

Well, on the bright side we've got T:OW to look forward to.

Well, I did not write that to mean Terraria is at all dead, or even dying. But as of yet, 1.4 is the last confirmed update. Now, obviously there is no point in confirming any subsequent versions like 1.5 if 1.4 isn't even in production yet (unless it's being developed in parallel to 1.3.6), but you do have to wonder how long the train will keep running. Personally (again), I think (and this is pure speculation, mind you) Terraria is unlikely to ever get to 1.5, and to me 1.6 or beyond seems unthinkable (assuming the 1.X versions are of around the same magnitude as 1.2 and 1.3 were, that is). So if 1.4 will be the last 'large large' update, and the first opportunity for such a large scale rewrite/migration, I don't see at what avenue that investment is supposed to pay off.

 

[BrusselSprouts693]

Well, I did not write that to mean Terraria is at all dead, or even dying. But as of yet, 1.4 is the last confirmed update. Now, obviously there is no point in confirming any subsequent versions like 1.5 if 1.4 isn't even in production yet (unless it's being developed in parallel to 1.3.6), but you do have to wonder how long the train will keep running. Personally (again), I think (and this is pure speculation, mind you) Terraria is unlikely to ever get to 1.5, and to me 1.6 or beyond seems unthinkable (assuming the 1.X versions are of around the same magnitude as 1.2 and 1.3 were, that is). So if 1.4 will be the last 'large large' update, and the first opportunity for such a large scale rewrite/migration, I don't see at what avenue that investment is supposed to pay off.

Did we expect 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3? No.

 

[Kazzymodus]

Did we expect 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3? No.

That is not the point I was trying to make.

While we didn't expect those updates (especially not 1.2), they weren't unimaginable with regards to how 'finished' the game was: all three extended the latitude of the game (Mechanical bosses for 1.1, Golem for 1.2 and Moon Lord for 1.3), with the Moon Lord being confirmed the final stretch of that latitude (of course they may decide against that in the future, but I wouldn't count on it), but they also expanded the latitude, more than the longitude (especially 1.3). Not to such a degree (if you'll pardon the pun) that it's unlikely any further update will 'fit', but eventually we will reach that point, and then development on Terraria will likely cease (or at the very least slow down). I expect that point to be reached in iteration 1.4 (so 1.4.X), if not 1.4 itself, and in extension don't expect the investment of going 64-bit to pay off.

 

[Techdude594]

So first of all, I will correct you on being wrong, as your calculation is off by a factor one billion: it's 2 to the power of 64 bytes, not gigabytes. Still not an amount of memory that any application would realistically need (or any computer currently in existence would realistically have), but hey, you explicitly asked for it.

Now, I'm by no means an expert on how difficult or feasible it would be to convert Terraria from 32-bit to 64-bit, but what I can tell you is that XNA, the framework Terraria is built upon, does not have 64-bit libraries: as long as Terraria uses the current 32-bit libraries, it simply can not become a 64-bit application. As far as I'm aware, there are only two real workarounds to this problem: the first is to rewrite the used libraries into 64-bit, and the second is to migrate engines. Neither of these are at all feasible, and if you're going to commit to the latter you might as well rewrite the entire game while you're at it.

Which brings me to the most important aspect of this suggestion: is it worth the time and effort? In my personal opinion, no, it's not.

As far as I'm aware, vanilla Terraria can run small and medium worlds flawlessly on the allocated maximum of 4.2 GB, and while I have heard of issues with large worlds, I don't believe they are problematic enough to become unplayable. So the real benefits of going 64-bit would go to people who play mods, and while I absolutely think that game companies should cater to the wishes of their players (where reasonable, of course), I don't think spending massive amounts of time and effort on something that doesn't benefit (most) vanilla players is not the best use of their resources, especially if that time could instead be spent on actually developing content for all players. What's more, converting Terraria to 64-bit wouldn't slow down content development, it would effectively pause it.

Of course you can argue that converting Terraria to 64-bit could be considered an investment for the future, and that future updates could take full advantage of the new benefits of this conversion. But at the same time, you do have to remember that Terraria is 7 years old by now. As far as its 'longitude' goes, it's finished: the devs have stated they have no intention of going beyond the Moon Lord. Latitude-ally (I just made that up) it can still grow, but even then the developers have stated they are very wary of bloat. So you do have to ask yourself the (slightly pessimistic) question of how long Terraria still has before Re-Logic moves on, willingly or not. And if such an 'investment' would actually pay off in the end. Personally, again, I don't think it would.

And finally, while most computers these days have 64-bit operating systems, not all of them do. And while 64-bit operating systems can run 32-bit applications, the inverse is not true, meaning that if this update is mandatory, Terraria would effectively become unplayable for anyone with a 32-bit OS. To counter this, you'd have to develop a 32-bit and a 64-bit version in parallel, and not only is that a huge time sink, but if the 64-bit application would indeed be fundamentally different to the 32-bit one, then that would also render crossplay impossible, unless you invest another huge amount of time and effort into fixing that.

As always, though, I'm not a member of Re-Logic. If they decide that going 64-bit is the right thing to do, they will. All I can say is that in my personal opinion, I highly doubt they will, and in the event that they do, it would be a project of a version 1.X magnitude, definitely not something you could fit into the scope of 1.3.6 (which I believe is the last confirmed large update before 1.4).

You make some strong points here. I am aware of the limitations of XNA, and because of these limitations, I think it would be beneficial if the developers focused on a massive engine overhaul for Terraria 1.4. A last hurrah, if you will, to modernize the game, and allow all kinds of users, with both powerful and weak hardware to benefit from an engine overhaul. I mean, the console versions were recently completely overhauled, and while it did take a long time, and wasn't completely smooth, I think this is a net gain for the console versions. I think that the PC version could benefit from an engine overhaul as well.

The linux version of the game seems to have a 64-bit version (likely running on a different engine), so why can't Windows users have the same benefit as well? Sure, it would be a lot of work, I'm sure, but if 1.4 is the last major update, then I personally think it would be a good idea for the game's aging technology to get an overhaul.

As you said, we don't really know what is in store for the future. I don't know how hard it is to create a 64-bit version of the game either. It's a bit frustrating not being able to run certain mods due to the aging architecture that the game is based upon.

Regarding whether or not a conversion of this magnitude would be worth the time and effort, we can delve deep into company ethics. Re-Logic is not a profit driven company, something which I admire, and wish more in the industry would follow. All of these free updates over the year, while sure, they may have garnered more sales and created buzz around the game, they seem to have been made out of love.

Furthermore, you said that 64-bit would only benefit some players. And while you are completely right, there has been content in the past added that doesn't benefit everyone. Take for example the latest minor patch, 1.3.5. 4K support only affects a tiny portion of the player base, and yet they still added it. The wiring update is another good example. Sure, there are many more players who enjoy wiring, myself included. But for a large portion of players, most didn't care too much about this update. Some content caters to some people, but not to others. I think that 64-bit Terraria should be a thing, in that case.

That's why I think that a 64-bit version of the game is worth the time. It's an acknowledgement to users who want to push the game further than you currently can, etc. If we ever see official modded support (I'm talking Steam Workshop, or other means), then I think a 64-bit version of the game would be appropriate, as it would allow for more variety in mods. (if mods ever become that big, I can't say honestly, though there are some VERY demanding mods out there currently)

Honestly, I'm not too hopeful, but if it ever comes around, I will be deeply grateful. Terraria is by far my favorite game, I have well over 6000 hours in it, and all of it was an enjoyable time. I'm honestly glad that we are still getting updates nearly 7 years in, that's some damn dedication!

 

[RunicPixels🧚🌳]

You make some strong points here. I am aware of the limitations of XNA, and because of these limitations, I think it would be beneficial if the developers focused on a massive engine overhaul for Terraria 1.4. A last hurrah, if you will, to modernize the game, and allow all kinds of users, with both powerful and weak hardware to benefit from an engine overhaul. I mean, the console versions were recently completely overhauled, and while it did take a long time, and wasn't completely smooth, I think this is a net gain for the console versions. I think that the PC version could benefit from an engine overhaul as well.

The linux version of the game seems to have a 64-bit version (likely running on a different engine), so why can't Windows users have the same benefit as well? Sure, it would be a lot of work, I'm sure, but if 1.4 is the last major update, then I personally think it would be a good idea for the game's aging technology to get an overhaul.

As you said, we don't really know what is in store for the future. I don't know how hard it is to create a 64-bit version of the game either. It's a bit frustrating not being able to run certain mods due to the aging architecture that the game is based upon.

Regarding whether or not a conversion of this magnitude would be worth the time and effort, we can delve deep into company ethics. Re-Logic is not a profit driven company, something which I admire, and wish more in the industry would follow. All of these free updates over the year, while sure, they may have garnered more sales and created buzz around the game, they seem to have been made out of love.

Furthermore, you said that 64-bit would only benefit some players. And while you are completely right, there has been content in the past added that doesn't benefit everyone. Take for example the latest minor patch, 1.3.5. 4K support only affects a tiny portion of the player base, and yet they still added it. The wiring update is another good example. Sure, there are many more players who enjoy wiring, myself included. But for a large portion of players, most didn't care too much about this update. Some content caters to some people, but not to others. I think that 64-bit Terraria should be a thing, in that case.

That's why I think that a 64-bit version of the game is worth the time. It's an acknowledgement to users who want to push the game further than you currently can, etc. If we ever see official modded support (I'm talking Steam Workshop, or other means), then I think a 64-bit version of the game would be appropriate, as it would allow for more variety in mods. (if mods ever become that big, I can't say honestly, though there are some VERY demanding mods out there currently)

Honestly, I'm not too hopeful, but if it ever comes around, I will be deeply grateful. Terraria is by far my favorite game, I have well over 6000 hours in it, and all of it was an enjoyable time. I'm honestly glad that we are still getting updates nearly 7 years in, that's some damn dedication!

Actually sort of right, as of right now Linux and Mac (and Windows as well I believe) are built on Mono (a modern cross platform implementation of the .net framework.) I believe and Mono does have x64 (64bit)export for all platforms it's simply a matter of suppporting x86 (32 bit ) users on Windows.

 

[Techdude594]

Actually sort of right, as of right now Linux and Mac (and Windows as well I believe) are built on Mono (a modern cross platform implementation of the .net framework.) I believe and Mono does have x64 (64bit)export for all platforms it's simply a matter of suppporting x86 (32 bit ) users on Windows.

Hmm, well if that is the case, then why couldn't the devs just have two versions of the game, one for 32-bit users, and one for 64-bit users?

 

[RunicPixels🧚🌳]

Hmm, well if that is the case, then why couldn't the devs just have two versions of the game, one for 32-bit users, and one for 64-bit users?

That I don't know, but if it was easy they would probably already have done so.

 

[Techdude594]

That I don't know, but if it was easy they would probably already have done so.

That very well could be true. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Winn]

+1 On this. This would unleash mod potential as we would no longer have to trim modpacks to the 4 GB mod limit. I feel like mods do wonders for games on PC and it would be a shame if we have to manage our mods just to meet the limit of the 32 bit memory.

 

[Techdude594]

+1 On this. This would unleash mod potential as we would no longer have to trim modpacks to the 4 GB mod limit. I feel like mods do wonders for games on PC and it would be a shame if we have to manage our mods just to meet the limit of the 32 bit memory.

Indeed, some of us would actually like to take advantage of our more capable machines. I have 24GB of RAM just waiting to be used!