Queen Slime vs. Everyone Else?

[Toxophilite [East]]

So, I finally feel pretty comfortable giving my thoughts on Queen Slime & decided I wanted to see other opinions on the matter; but first, let me get a few things out of the way.

These are a few common, but scarce opinions I've been hearing about this Boss that I don't necessarily agree with. Keep in mind, this was me trying to shy away from spoilers at the time, but I'm okay with hearing them now. Share whatever obscure info you have here, I'd greatly appreciate any & all of it~!

• Queen Slime's loot is trash, in relation to her difficulty. 🗑
• By the time it makes sense to fight Queen Slime (power-level wise), her items are already irrelevant.

I'm not sure where the majority of you stand with this, as I said earlier, these were scarce, but pretty consistent opinions I've seen & heard about this Boss. I guess I'll open up with the many reasons I strongly disagree with this assessment & then ask you all several or more questions that might help me understand this opinion/ POV (if most of you agree), as I might be missing something.

• I find this Boss to be maybe slightly tougher than The Twins, but I could certainly beat her without using a Mount, if that means anything (so, I guess they're about even in my eyes).
• I didn't consider her defense at the time (26+ Master Mode), but I was also using a combination of Blade Staff Minions & Twins as a Summoner (which ignores some defense).
• From my experience, I'd say that Queen Slime is an alternative to the Mech Bosses, as I believe their loot tier is about the same (correct me if I'm wrong)?
• Her Armor Set, according to the Wiki, has +36 defense, +15% damage, +15% critical chance, +25% movement speed total.
• The Hook of Dissonance is obnoxiously good! That item alone is worth fighting her IMHO, especially if you can't get/ haven't gotten a RoD just yet.
• Volatile Gelatin is like having free additional Minions, playing as a Summoner, it was extremely helpful clearing out the OOA Event (Master Mode).
• She also, basically gives you an upgraded version of the Slime Mount. That's pretty good by default.

For those who agree that Queen Slime is a pointless Boss, at least for her difficulty tier, what am I missing here? Does the Crystal Assassin Armor fall behind Hallowed Armor in some way? Am I overrating some of the items listed, in their usefulness, compared to what a player might already have at this point in the game? More importantly, what tier would most of you put her yourselves? Post Mech, Post Duke, Post Plantera? I'm under the impression that answering these questions might give some clarity...

 

[Banmei]

True and true.

The armor, defense wise doesn't even surpass Adamantite which is not too tough to get. Compared to Hallowed? Not by far. Hallowed Armor now has the set effect that Titanium used to have, and it is one of the better set defenses in the game imo. The hook may be nice but I prefer a particular type of hook for my style.

I guess maybe as mage or summoner armor the set is good as I believe the damage is universal similar to the Destroyer Emblem and for those classes the defense is decent. Once I found out what she drops I gave up on my collector mode and put it on the list of things to do when i'm bored.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Okay, so I have a question. I typically try to stay away from theory-crafting, but what's your take on this idea...?

The Volatile Gelatin is an accessory obtained from Queen Slime's Treasure Bag in Expert Mode. When equipped, it periodically fires a small purple projectile, similar to those of the Queen Slime, that deals about 60 damage, bounces along the ground once per second, and pierces up to 3 enemies. It launches approximately 1 projectile per second. Tips: Like minions and sentries, or the Spore Sac, this accessory is useful during fishing, mining, and other activities where the player is not focused on defending themselves. Its knockback and piercing abilities can also keep the player from being overwhelmed during fights. Useful in the Hardmode Dungeon, where it excels at keeping enemies like Bone Lee away. Combined with the Spore Sac to attack casters through walls, the player can be safe from more than half of the enemies in the Dungeon. [Source]

With the bonus of +15% damage, +15% critical chance, & +25% movement speed from the Crystal Assassin Armor, it never occurred to me to consider this set an alternative to Hallowed Summoner Armor, or even Forbidden Armor. I mean, considering the fact that all damage is universal, do you think the DPS, with the right set-up is comparable or better, especially if Volatile Gelatin is part of the kit? In addition, I have an idea that a high-crit Weapon would be an easy sale, unless there's something better, earlier or easier to get that I'm not considering.

Note: Adamantite Mask: +14% ranged damage, +8% ranged critical strike chance Set Bonus: 25% chance not to consume ammo Set Effect: Pulsating outline of player [Source]

 

[Banmei]

Okay, so I have a question. I typically try to stay away from theory-crafting, but what's your take on this idea...?

The Volatile Gelatin is an accessory obtained from Queen Slime's Treasure Bag in Expert Mode. When equipped, it periodically fires a small purple projectile, similar to those of the Queen Slime, that deals about 60 damage, bounces along the ground once per second, and pierces up to 3 enemies. It launches approximately 1 projectile per second. Tips: Like minions and sentries, or the Spore Sac, this accessory is useful during fishing, mining, and other activities where the player is not focused on defending themselves. Its knockback and piercing abilities can also keep the player from being overwhelmed during fights. Useful in the Hardmode Dungeon, where it excels at keeping enemies like Bone Lee away. Combined with the Spore Sac to attack casters through walls, the player can be safe from more than half of the enemies in the Dungeon. [Source]

With the bonus of +15% damage, +15% critical chance, & +25% movement speed from the Crystal Assassin Armor, it never occurred to me to consider this set an alternative to Hallowed Summoner Armor, or even Forbidden Armor. I mean, considering the fact that all damage is universal, do you think the DPS, with the right set-up is comparable or better, especially if Volatile Gelatin is part of the kit? In addition, I have an idea that a high-crit Weapon would be an easy sale, unless there's something better, earlier or easier to get that I'm not considering.

Note: Adamantite Mask: +14% ranged damage, +8% ranged critical strike chance Set Bonus: 25% chance not to consume ammo Set Effect: Pulsating outline of player [Source]

I've tried the maxed out crit before and it was lackluster. Might be worth a revisit in 1.4. Obsidian Swordfish has the highest base critical for any melee weapon pre 1.4, and maybe still now. With accessories, armor and potion I still found it not to be worth all the investment just into critical strike. I want to say for ranged the Sniper Rifle is one of the best for base crit but still it's ROF makes it not useful for that, even moreso if you play on Master.

Critical Strike comes down to math. For example, having 7 accessory slots:

- Critical Strike when performed deals double damage.
- Lets say with the Obsidian Swordfish 24%, 4% base chance, and all mods for accessories 28%, plus Crystal armor 8% you have 64% crit chance.

We'll make it 66.6%, or 2/3 for better math. So probability states every 3 hits you strike 2 will be critical/double damage. This is high. We'll say for the sake of discussion you deal 50 damage. So 10 attacks would look like this: 50, 100, 100, 50, 100, 100, 50, 100, 100, 50 = 800 damage.

Say you invest the same into damage, for a bonus of 2/3 (using a better weapon and accessories +4 dmg) rounding at 82 (only 64%) you have 820 total dmg.

This also leaves less up to luck, or the RNG, and provides more continuity when killing things. If you were to play on Classic where the enemies had far less health critical might be better off just for the sake of getting one shot kills often. You most likely will not have this happen throughout most of Expert/Master Mode.

Spore Sac/Volatile Gelatin = Useful items and not garbage. Personally I prefer to use that slot for something else. I'm not a big fan of random, uncontrolled projectiles flying around. I laughed the first time I saw the Gator Gun for sale with the Traveling Merchant. Not my style. The two are good items though for a summoner at certain points in the game, and your idea is sound and seems like it would be effective.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

I guess what my question would be after everything is, could it be that Queen Slime is the secret sauce between upgrades? Naturally, I think the answer to that would be "try out an organic play-through, taking Queen Slime into consideration, & see if she seems like a natural fit between any progression from early-Hardmode to fighting my first Mech Boss".

What I found interesting about her in particular & my obsession with Volatile Gelatin & The Hook of Dissonance, mainly has to do with the common complaints I see concerning Summoner Class (Expert/ Master Mode).

• Movement options (though a much rarer complaint, it is still pretty consistent).
• Lack of defensive options (Spider Armor 20, Crystal Assassin 36, Forbidden Armor 26, Apprentice Armor 32 +DD2 selection, Hallowed Armor 27 +special dodging effect).
• Lack of variety, but considering the fact that Crystal Assassin Armor is technically Class Neutral, is a Hybrid Summoner build a viable option here?
• Volatile Gelatin is undoubtedly a great addition to Summoner, could be argued as essential considering the common complaints of dumb Minion A.I.
• The Hook of Dissonance is undoubtedly a great movement option for those who also think Summoner needs more mobility options. (while also removing RNG elements)

I'm almost certain that the bonus of +15% damage, +15% critical chance, & +25% movement speed from the Crystal Assassin Armor applies to Minions as well (crit chance being the only exception maybe?), while also addressing most of the common complaints. Though I didn't feel as if Summoner was lacking in my own, organic play-though, I'd be confused about someone who did, not adding Queen Slime to their hit-list. Am I overvaluing this Boss, am I missing something vital here?

 

[qwerty3.14]

Here's what I think about queen slime's loot.

The gelatin pillow acts just like the slimy saddle in 90% of situations I use the saddle for, if I get it I might as well replace my slimy saddle. It's an upgrade but not by much.

I'd say the same for the hook, it is better than most hooks if only because most hooks do nothing special. I found it's teleport ability quite limited however, limited range and can't go through tiles, you could teleport through enemies with it but I generally prefer the move away from the thing trying to kill me strategy.

The volatile gelatin is a solid accessory, and imo the best queen slime item it's nice for events but I find it quite limiting against any boss that isn't the destroyer. I find I have plenty of accessory slots to spare at this stage of the game in master mode.



Now for the armor... crystal assassin armor is very mediocre.

The movement bonus is basically useless, movement speed doesn't actually make you move faster it just makes you reach your top speed sooner, which is completely outclassed by the shield of cthulu which lets you reach top speed instantly.

offensively it's not that good
15% damage and 15% critical chance is a bit less than what you'd get from adamatite armor which is already a pretty mediocre set. not to mention if you're playing ranger or melee you could swap out the adamatite chest for a frozen one which yields better offensive and defensive stats. Since most of crystal assassin armor's bonuses are in the set bonus it can't be saved by armor mixing.

The niche that you would think crystal assign armor would have being a good hybrid set. The thing is summoner is really the only good class to hybrid with and half of this armor's offensive stats are in critical chance which summons can't benefit from. You're better of with either spider armor or one of the 1.2 ore armors since even though they have class special helmets their set bonuses are class neutral.

oh and this whole time I've been comparing it to pre boss armors, in realty this thing should be compared to hallow armor... and it's just terrible in comparison. Despite having roughly half the offensive stats for non summon weapons it arguably has more offense thanks to it's +3 minion slots. Defensively it simply isn't a competition hallowed armor's set bonus is arguably the best in the game for defensive purposes especially on higher difficulties.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

@qwerty3.14 , I want to give a proper response, but first I have to debunk your movement speed claim (note that I wasn't trying to, something just felt off about it).

The movement bonus is basically useless, movement speed doesn't actually make you move faster it just makes you reach your top speed sooner, which is completely outclassed by the shield of cthulu which lets you reach top speed instantly.

Unlike most Terrarians here, I don't crunch numbers, I rely on y'all to do that, however, something felt off about your claim toward movement speed (particularly with this set), so I ran a few simple tests. I typically play by feel & any time an Armor Set or Item claimed to increase movement speed, I felt an increase, even if it very was slight in nature.

• In the first image you'll notice, my New Toon is only moving at 18mph, top speed, no accessories, Crystal Assassin Armor worn only as a Vanity Item.
• In the second image, my New Toon is wearing the full set of Crystal Assassin Armor, top speed of 22mph, with the Movement Speed bonus of +25% in effect.

Is this a common misconception within the community as a whole, or is this your own personal analysis on Movement Speed in the game?

Note: The Armor Set also appeared to effect aerial speed as well, but it was too inconsistent to document properly, having only Fledgling Wings to use as a measuring tool on flight.

 

[qwerty3.14]

@qwerty3.14 , I want to give a proper response, but first I have to debunk your movement speed claim (note that I wasn't trying to, something just felt off about it).

Unlike most Terrarians here, I don't crunch numbers, I rely on y'all to do that, however, something felt off about your claim toward movement speed (particularly with this set), so I ran a few simple tests. I typically play by feel & any time an Armor Set or Item claimed to increase movement speed, I felt an increase, even if it very was slight in nature.

View attachment 286500 View attachment 286501

• In the first image you'll notice, my New Toon is only moving at 18mph, top speed, no accessories, Crystal Assassin Armor worn only as a Vanity Item.
• In the second image, my New Toon is wearing the full set of Crystal Assassin Armor, top speed of 22mph, with the Movement Speed bonus of +25% in effect.

Is this a common misconception within the community as a whole, or is this your own personal analysis on Movement Speed in the game?

Note: The Armor Set also appeared to effect aerial speed as well, but it was too inconsistent to document properly, having only Fledgling Wings to use as a measuring tool on flight.

It only effects movement speed if you don't have a hermes boots type accesory. If you run the test while using hermes boots you will notice that they both run at a tops speed of 30mph. Horizontal wing speed works the exact same way as hermes boots.

Basically movement speed is only useful if you for some reason aren't using an accessory that massively increases your movement speed.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

It only effects movement speed if you don't have a hermes boots type accesory. If you run the test while using hermes boots you will notice that they both run at a tops speed of 30mph. Horizontal wing speed works the exact same way as hermes boots.

Okay, so I did the test & you were correct, the Armor Set bonus doesn't have any effect on Hermes Boots, I tried a few other types of boots & the result was as you said, no effect. I considered the idea that the perceived speed bonus I'd gotten during my play-through with other Armor Sets, as a Summoner, was likely placebo, but I'll have to do some tests on that as well, considering the change was due to a battle with Duke Fishron & I wanted more speed... very interesting.

Basically movement speed is only useful if you for some reason aren't using an accessory that massively increases your movement speed.

Yeah, I can't morally defend this Armor Set at the moment. The speed bonus having no effect with Accessories, totally took me by surprise. Until I personally lab it out, to see why that'd ever be the case, considering it's a Hardmode Armor Set, I'm gonna assume the general consensus regarding it is true. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[qwerty3.14]

I just remembered there IS actually a use for movement speed in hard mode, it's quite niche though.

Asphalt blocks... They make you run a lot faster on them and alter the move speed formula to where the movement speed stat actually makes you run faster on them. However even here crystal assassin doesn't stand up. Asphalt blocks are available post mech which is also when the t1 OOA armors are available.

With the exception of squire the t1 OOA sets have 20% movespeed on thier leg pieces, although that's a little less than assassin's 25% they only require the leg slot so you could equip a gi and an orchalum helmet if you want to get max movement speed.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

I just remembered there IS actually a use for movement speed...Asphalt blocks... They make you run a lot faster on them and alter the move speed formula to where the movement speed stat actually makes you run faster on them. However even here crystal assassin doesn't stand up. Asphalt blocks are available post mech which is also when the t1 OOA armors are available.

Yeah... I'm glad that exists, but this seems kinda unacceptable. Asphalt being a speed-booster should be separate from Movement Speed. It seems a bit archaic to lock the players Movement Speed behind Accessory progression, when Mounts were added in 1.4, especially Goat Skull (61/ 80mph). This feels like a Developer oversight, unless I'm missing something. If I request this be fixed in some way, would you both back me on it? I'm trying to find a reason why this would be the case, now, but I'm seriously at a loss...

 

[qwerty3.14]

Yeah... I'm glad that exists, but this seems kinda unacceptable. Asphalt being a speed-booster should be separate from Movement Speed. It seems a bit archaic to lock the players Movement Speed behind Accessory progression, when Mounts were added in 1.4, especially Goat Skull (80mph). This feels like a Developer oversight, unless I'm missing something. If I request this be fixed in some way, would you both back me on it? I'm trying to find a reason why this would be the case, now, but I'm seriously at a loss...

I agree that the current implimentation of the movement speed stat is really bad. The game never tells you that there's a 60% move speed cap or that using certain accessories/mounts completely overrides it. My guess is that this is an artifact from way back before all these mounts and wings were added.

I'd be in favor of either removing the stat entirely since it's basically irrelevant for 90% of the game, or allowing it to stack with all those other movement options.