Weapons & Equip Ranged may require some tweaks...

Does Ranged require any changes?

  • Give them mobility, this game is like Touhou, it's all about dodging!

    Votes: 46 35.1%
  • Give them new weapons! Anything that isn't a fish or a firework.

    Votes: 27 20.6%
  • Mobility or better weapons? Why not both! Mages have both too...

    Votes: 66 50.4%
  • Give rangers nothing, I don't think they deserve it.

    Votes: 19 14.5%
  • Or give rangers the ability to build sentry like minions and arm them with ranged weaponry!

    Votes: 23 17.6%
  • Change/give Vortex Armor a set bonus which grants damage bonus based on how fast the player moves!

    Votes: 29 22.1%
  • Change the movement speed penalties to defense penalties on Vortex Armor.

    Votes: 27 20.6%

  • Total voters
    131
Status
Not open for further replies.

Kardfogu

Steampunker
Introduction:

Well, I play ranged. Most games I tend to ignore it, because most games do it bad and I go magic. Except Terraria, because it does feel awesome to shoot things in Terraria with a bow, a gun or a rocket launcher. That's why I'm writing this. It was so satisfying to get the Snowman Cannon back before.

On the other hand, there's a tendency since 1.2 that ranged lags behind the other "classes" - except poor summoners - as ranged doesn't really have anything when compared to the others and ranged lost a terrible amount of mobility with the introduction of Shroomite and the stealth mechanic. We actually lost a lot when stealth was introduced. Of course, it wasn't that bad, back than our weapons were on almost on par with magic and melee weaponry. Now that changed.

Do not misundertand me, I'm not asking for a Phantasm buff or something, that wouldn't help at all. Of course, I'd really like to see a real endgame gun - that is not a fish - or a real endgame bow like the phantasm was. Even better would be to see Celebration removed from the game and being replaced with a real rocket launcher, something like a buffed up Snowman Cannon.
Yet I don't ask for anything like that, the only thing ranged REALLY needs is mobility.
Guns would be fine too and I'm posting suggestions anyways, but we need mobility more.

Pros and cons of being ranged:

Pros:

  • Goodish damage.
  • Stealth.
Cons:
  • Short range, yes, heard me right. See below!
  • Ammo use.
  • Lowly damage compared to how much weaknesses we have.
  • Medium defense.
  • Nonexistent mobility.
    • No Mount use.
    • Stealth decreases aerial acceleration and ground movement speed as well.
  • No regeneration.
Goodish damage.
Yes, our best weapons in stealth deal damage on par with the best melee weapons, but we aren't really doing much more. Our weapons use ammo, stealth makes us sitting target dummies for the enemies and we aren't killing anything considerably faster than a warrior does.

Stealth
This is more of a PvP advantage. We aren't forced to farm for invisibility potions or anything, we can turn almost-invisible on demand. On the other hand, it doesn't help us much, as stealth doesn't stop anything from drawing aggro of enemies in single player, it's practically not stealth at all. Every single monster knows we are there.

Short range
Many ranged weapon fire in a cone, as such many can't hit consistently without Chlorophyte bullets. Which makes their effective range lower than that of melee weapons if we use any other ammo. We also, can't shoot blindly without wasting ammo we worked hard for, while melee is free and mages have a cheap universal ammo in the form of manapots.
Not to mention Last Prism as it has a perfect 100% aim and Mages can just sweep it around and everything dies instantly within a range of multiple screens.

Ammo use
Here's a funny story: I play ranged, I didn't know that chlorophyte brick exists since 1.3, because I don't have any chrolophyte. Why? I used up thousands of chlorophyte as ammo. End of story.
Ohhh yes, my favourite part. Melee can shoot sword beams with ranges over thousands of blocks for free. Mages have their ultimate "ammo" from killing basic hallowed creatures and buying some pots from an NPC. We farm chlorophyte, crystals, even the Moon Lord itself to get ammo. Get it? We run out of ammo and we have to kill the endgame boss in order to get ammo.
Sometimes I had to farm multiple hard mode worlds I had to get enough chlorophyte in 1.2 for Frost Moons and Pumpkin Moons.
Well, I don't want ranged weapons to become free. it's just unfair that we have to work THAT hard for ammo or make that ammo deal THAT high damage.
When it comes to the fact that I can't even use some bricks, because all the ores I can get are spent on shooting at stuff, it's kinda sad.
Side suggestion: Make ammo and bricks crafted from different resources or make the bricks cheaper. Chlorophyte Bricks are just unfairly expensive for a ranged player, Shroomite Plating isn't cheap either.

Lowly damage
Our damage is underwhelming compared to all the sacrifices we make.
Well, I admit, we do more than Warriors and Summoners...
...but we can't ever dream of what Mages do and we pay so much!
We sacrifice resources for ammo, mobility for damage, heck, we can't even heal ourselves like they and mages still outdamage and outrange us.

Medium defense
Well, we are ranged, it's fine.
On the other hand, mages - despite having lower defense - with their insane health regeneration are actually way more sturdy than ranged players.

Nonexistent mobility
Here comes the funny part, we sacrifice mobility for mediocre damage. I get it, but another problem rises. We worked hard for that mount and killed, even farmed bosses repeateadly for it and then, like a bolt from the blue, we are there, we have the mount and we never use it because it removes our stealth. Why can everyone else show off their mounts while we are forced to use wings?

No regeneration
Okay, this can't be bad, right? Sooo, we can't dodge, because we aren't allowed to use dodge items or mounts and our movement speed is drastically decreased. We can't take hits because we don't have any defense. We can't regenerate back the health we lose.
Which means we are forced out of stealth at which point, our damage drops dramatically so the fight becomes even longer.

My point?
Well, at least let us fly at a reduced speed with mounts or sit in one place while in stealth. Let us use dodge items while we are in stealth.
And if you really care, give us something fun too, because a horrible rocket launcher and one more lame fishgun - I don't care about dolphins being mammals, they are fish for the sake of this thread - aren't fun. Give us something that isn't a fish or a firework, give us something badass and destructive!
If mages can incinerate the planet with a laser while riding an UFO, why can't we have something cool too?

Conclusion:

Mobility
We can use grappling hooks to move, it doesn't destealth us. Why can't we use dodge? If we are willing to sacrifice an accessory slot, we should gain the ability to dodge while remaining in stealth.
We already have reduced movement speed on land. Why can't we use a mount with reduced movement speed as well?
We want to use dodge accessories and even mounts.
This is our most important need as Vortex Armor's bonus is borderline useless without the ability to dodge attacks while using stealth, as such, we are constantly forced out of stealth and we can't deal any damage with our weak weapons.

Weaponry

Our weapons are mediocre at best. Endgame ranged weaponry were designed in a way that it was expected that we never leave stealth. We can't remain in stealth and stay alive unless we build a huge autofarm-like teleporter system. Without stealth our weapons are much weaker than most - even summoner weapons are considerably stronger - and many of the same weapons are barely mediocre while using stealth.

The S.D.M.G. is a fairly powerful machine gun without any unique ability, low damage and a high ammo consumption. It could reach high DPS, but only during stealth and it costs an arm and a leg to keep firing it. Not to mention that it is a dolphin...

The Celebration is a rocket launcher with a gimmicky impact modifier that is outmatched by many previous rocket launchers. The low range, the abscence of seeking ability and the terrible accuracy together make it an extremely underwhelming weapon.

It would be reasonable to make Celebration into a toy sold by the Party Girl and give ranged players a true rocket launcher instead. Even other weapons... ...or even turrets that we can fit a weapon on and feed with ammo. Give us better weapons or, let us shoot multiple ones at the same time!

Ammo
Ammo requires farming, farming requires time, so it better worth it, but it sometimes doesn't. Especially in the case of Chlorophyte. Of course, this would be less of an issue if we could craft useful ammo from resources we have access to.

As for bullets, we don't use anything but Crystal, Luminite and Chlorophyte, the others are ignored as the better bullet weapons have insanely fast attack speeds, so most kinds of piercing/explosive doesn't work well - because of the invulnerability frames caused by piercing damage.
As it stands for arrows, it is probably even worse, we use Luminite and Holy, but nothing else, because most arrows are piercing/explosive so they don't work well with the new shotbows.

Luminite is farmed from the Moon Lord, Hallow ammo is farmed from basic hallow enemies and underground hallow crystals. As such, in order to get Luminite for ammo, numerous celestial towers are defeated. One obvious use is to make sigils out of them to summon the Moon Lord repeatedly...
...what if we could craft ammo from the fragments as well? That would make it possible to have access to not one type of bullet and arrow, but instead five!
Thanks for the original idea to @GC_dzbanek!

We'd really like to see the growth rate and spread limit of Chlorophyte increase further and getting more bullets from a single Chlorophyte bar. Also, it would be good to see powerful ammo crafted from fragments and possibly other endgame resources with seeking, shattering or similar abilities. Even new material drops from Moon invasion events and such that are used for crafting useful ammo.

Armor
Vortex Armor, basically a recycled, less awful Shroomite gear. Except for the part that now we can walk in stealt and every single weapon we have was designed to be awfully weak without using stealth. Back in 1.2 our weapons were fine even out of stealth. While Shroomite itself was worse, our weapons were better and we had the freedom of mobility.

Shroomite also has the problem of having 3 different helmets, but even all the helmets together can't cover all our weapons, changing the bonus to on the headpieces to simply "ranged damage" would solve the problem.

At this point many of us got bored of stealth as it's based on the non-working concept of grappling ourselves to an object in order to endure damage taken in order to deal more damage in stealth.

Changing the Vortex Armor's set bonus to something more realistic could help or even releasing a new ranged armor alternative. Something like bonus damage bonus based on the speed of the player, which is the exact opposite of the nonsense stealth mechanic. Perhaps possibly changing the penalty of stealth to a defense reduction instead of movement speed reduction.

With the help of @GC_dzbanek here is the list of the more important comments:
Arguments, contraguments, reasons and support:
I know that one could argue about whether those things are problematic or not. There were such arguments, a lot of them, in which we had to repeat our contrarguments many times, because people still listed the same things, which we've seen a lot of from people before them. Here are links for most importants arguments and contrarguments, so that no one will again write the same text, just for us to paste our response once more:
Exact reasons for which our weapons are lame:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/#post-640711
Contrarguments for Xyifer12's post - another evidence that we're not just trying to get our class OVER others, jut in line with them:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-2#post-643540
The reason for which I (we?) consider 70 bullets per bar not enough:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-2#post-643701
All-around arguments and clearing some things out:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-3#post-643757
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-3#post-643797
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-4#post-643842

Complains about other classes fauvoritism:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-4#post-643885
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-4#post-643882

When the voting was changed to allow multiple choices:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-5#post-643995
Why Celebration is weak:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranged-may-require-some-tweaks.27466/page-7#post-645562


It's not just us:
http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/ranger-class-is-outmatched.27089/

http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/why-endgame-ranger-fails-and-how-to-improve-it.25127/

Summary:
We are not whining, we just want our class to be in line with the Warriors and Mages. We are meant to be glasscannons, relying on movement and high DPS, but how the hell can we achieve it, when for one we must sacrifite the other?

Voting clearly shows that these changes are needed.

Weapon suggestions:
Well, I'm not asking for these, but any of them would be nice, we sacrifice precious resources in the form of ammo, so we should get higher damage, right?
Ranged weapons should be highly damaging even without stealth, for the sole reason that we sacrifice resources and that Stealth isn't practical in a boss fight where you want to dodge things.
Stealth just, doesn't help you in a boss fight, it's not a working strategy...
...so here are some weapon suggestions, if mages can have Last Prism, why can't we have any of these?

Tournament
Damage 30 (Ranged)
Knockback 4
Velocity 20
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 17 (Very Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (30*1.15+65)*6*4=2400
Mechanic: Tournament has 33% chance to not consume ammo. Shoots 6 rockets simultaenously in a spread, each counting as a different weapon (like the beams of Last Prism). Holding down the right mouse button makes the rockets circle around each other in a tight, precise spread instead.
"Way Beyond Unreal"
Obviously, with rocket that destroy terrain, this rocket launcher would DEMOLISH the living crap out of terrain. Why? Because that's FUN with all capital letters. Especially since Rocket III and Rocket IV does the same damage as of 1.3 so there's no reason to use Rocket IV over Rocket III if you don't want to destroy terrain.
This a direct reference to Unreal Tournament's rocket launcher which was capable of shooting a horizontal spread or a helix-like cluster of 6 rockets at the same time. It was also capable of shooting rockets like grenades and lock on targets, but that would be just too much for one weapon in Terraria.

Tournament (Alternative)
Damage 1565 (Ranged)
Knockback 4
Velocity 15
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 66 (Snail)
Approx base DPS without criticals (1565*1.15+65)*1=1865
Mechanic: Holding Down the mouse right mouse button guides the rocket. The explosion is similar to a nuclear warhead's. Not a firework.
"End their world and Redeem their souls!"
This is a direct reference to the Redeemer, a guided nuclear warhead, the ultimate weapon of Unreal Tournament. Suggested In cooperation with GC_dzbanek.


Punishment
Damage 111 (Ranged)
Knockback 4
Velocity 10
Critical Chance 14
Rarity Red
Use Time 5 (Insanely Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (111*1.15+22)*15=2250
Mechanic: The Punishment has a 75% chance to not consume ammo.
"Not vengance, punishment!"
Obviously, a The Punisher reference. Except the part that this is a minigun! Not a dolphin!

Clockwork Sniper
Damage 300 (Ranged)
Knockback 6
Velocity 15
Critical Chance 24%
Rarity Red
Use Time 40 (Very Slow)
Approx base DPS without criticals (300*1.15+22)*3*5/3=1835
Mechanic: The Clockwork Sniper Rifle shoots in burts of 3, only the first projectile costs ammo. Also, holding Down the right mouse button activates zoom as the Sniper Rifle does, it stacks with the Rifle Scope or the Sniper Scope.
"Clockwork Core, it's power is beyond control."
Steampunk weapon! Why? Well, for reasons, like steampunk is awesome.

Airstrike
Damage 96 (Ranged)
Knockback 6
Velocity 20
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 17 (Very Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (96*1.15+65)*3*4=2100
Mechanic: Each shot rains 3 rockets from the sky, ignoring terrain until the point they have been aimed, each rocket of the same shot are considered different weapons when calculating invulnerability.
"Slimegirl approved." or "His wrath falls from the heavens!"
Awesome, purely awesome. Thank you
Esmerelda the Slime Girl for the nice idea. This would be my way to implement it into the game. WarHammer 40k quote really spiced up the idea in my fantasies. xD

715bf5da18.png

Nova Cannon
Damage 1 (Ranged)
Knockback 20
Velocity 5
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 19 (Very Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (1*1.15+5000)*1/3=1666.67

Mechanic: Uses Fusion Star Cores as ammo. Charge up weapon. Holding down the left mouse button charges the weapon. The weapon won't launch any projectile if it is not charged for at least 3 seconds. Upon reaching 3 seconds, a sound or effect reminds the player that the charge is complete. Upon impact, the charged nuke deals it's damage within a range of 32, the explosion doesn't destroy blocks.
"Charge it up, then unleash Hell."
This weapon's sprite is a reference to Turok 2's nuke.
Fusion Star Core
Damage 5000 (Ranged)
10 Fusion Star Core is Craftable from: 10 Fallen Star and 1 Luminite.
The slightly modified alternate version of the idea which came from Esmerelda the Slime Girl lately.

2m7hhmf.jpg

Nuker
(removed word "the" from the beginning, so it sounds less weird with a prefix like Unreal)
Damage 435 (Ranged)
Knockback 20
Velocity 5
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 200 (Snail)
Approx base DPS without criticals (435*1.15+4000)*1/3=1500

Mechanic: Uses The Nuke as ammo. Upon impact it deals it's damage within a range of 32, the explosion doesn't destroy blocks.
"Charge it up, then unleash Hell."
This weapon's base idea is a reference to Turok 2's nuke.
The Nuke
Damage 4000 (Ranged)
Craftable from: any celestial shard.
The modified version of the idea which came from Esmerelda the Slime Girl lately.

Clockwork Compositebow
Damage 74 (Ranged)
Knockback 6
Velocity 20
Critical Chance 24%
Rarity Red
Use Time 14 (Very Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (74*1.15+15)*6*5=2500
Mechanic: The Clockwork Compositebow shoots in burts of 5, only the first projectile costs ammo. The Clockwork Compositebow shoots in a 15° cone. It has a 66% chance to not consume ammo. Allows the use of zoom from Rifle Scope and Sniper Scope.
"Mechanic Mayhem."
Even more steampunk weapons! Why? Well, I already told you, they are awesome.

Clockwork Arrow Dispenser
Damage 96 (Ranged)
Knockback 6
Velocity 10
Critical Chance 24%
Rarity Red
Use Time 34 (Very Slow)
Approx base DPS without criticals (96*1.15+15)*3*4*2=2250
Mechanic: The Clockwork Arrow Dispenser is practically a bursfiring multishot repeater. It shoots bursts of 3 shots, each firing 3 arrows, only the first projectile costs ammo. Allows the use of zoom from Rifle Scope and Sniper Scope.
"Dispensing ammo as fast as possible."
Steampunk crossbow... ...ohhh come on, you should have known I'll post a crossbow variant for various people who like that more.

Red Curse
Damage 75(Ranged)
Knockback 6
Velocity 100
Critical Chance 14%
Rarity Red
Use Time 12 (Very Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (75*1.15+15)*(3+2)*6=3030
Mechanic: It has a 75% chance of not consuming ammo. Shoots 3 arrows, at a the cost of one, the middle arrow is converted into a special red arrow projectile, the arrows travel at an almost instantaneous speed. While holding down the left mouse button, the bow fires a piercing beam which decreases enemy defense and tripples damage taken from the red arrow.
"It's red."
The weapon idea of @GC_dzbanek
.

Mined Freak
Damage 80(Ranged)
Knockback 6
Velocity 10
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 10 (Very Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (80*1.15+15)*3*60/9=2140
Mechanic: The Mined Freak shoots 3 arrows at a time. Pressing the right mouse button shoots a proximity Vortex Mine. Upon activation the Vortex Mine disables the movement of enemies within it's range and deals damage to them.
"Resistance is futile."
The weapon idea of @Qui Devorat.

Blackhole Bow
Damage 90 (Ranged)
Knockback 10
Velocity 20
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 30 (Very Slow)
Approx base DPS without criticals (90*1.15+15)*6=714
Mechanic: Upon hitting an enemy, a blackhole is generated, drawing enemies to itself and dealing damage over time.
"There is no escape."
The weapon idea of @Esmerelda the Slime Girl.
 
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I'm with you about the mobility and joke endgame weapons. Ranger - too - and see all cons of being ranger, every and each You've listed. But I think everything we need is higher mobility in stealth (mounts, dashing) and replacing SDMG or, even better, celebration with some really badass gun.
EDIT: You shouldn't make the fourth option in voting. Now all other classes will swarm to vote this down, just not to buff this one.
EDIT2: Taking a closer look, there are far more difficulties with being ranger. But still, we should take care of most important (mobility, Celebration, ammo), and then go to others.
 
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i personally like the SDMG, but i understand the joke weapons thing, using, say, a christmas tree sword may be efficient, but it's too whimsical for a main weapon. nice first post.
 
I'm with you about the mobility and joke endgame weapons. Ranger - too - and see all cons of being ranger, every and each You've listed. But I think everything we need is higher mobility in stealth (mounts, dashing) and replacing texture of SDMG... even name can stay.
EDIT: You shouldn't make the fourth option in voting. Now all other classes will swarm to vote this down, just not to buff this one.

Well, I'm more into fair play, I'm interested in what other classes think about this. I really am interested in their opinion.
About weaponry, I'm not begging for anything, but as long as Last Prism is mechanically a shotgun with 100 base damage, having a 100% accuracy and 6 pellets that each deal damage individually piercing infinite enemies.
While I wasn't in mood to talk about mechanics of weapons, I'd have a couple of suggestions that could be in line with mage weapons...
...funny things is, we need slower guns and faster bows as Luminite is here. Not to mention a better rocket launcher... xD
 
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Well, I play ranged. Most games I tend to ignore it, because most games do it bad and I go magic. Except Terraria, because it does feel awesome to shoot things in Terraria with a bow, a gun or a rocket launcher. That's why I'm writing this. It was so satisfying to get the Snowman Cannon back before.
On the other hand, there's a tendency since 1.2 that ranged lags behind the other "classes" - except poor summoners - as ranged doesn't really have anything when compared to the others and ranged lost a terrible amount of mobility with the introduction of Shroomite and the stealth mechanic. We actually lost a lot when stealth was introduced.
Do not misundertand me, I'm not asking for a Phantasm buff or something, that wouldn't help at all. Of course, I'd really like to see a real endgame gun - that is not a fish - or a real endgame bow like the phantasm was. Even better would be to see Celebration removed from the game and being replaced with a real rocket launcher, something like a buffed up Snowman Cannon.
Yet I don't ask for anything like that, the only thing ranged REALLY needs is mobility.

Pros and cons of being ranged:

Pros:
  • Goodish damage.
  • Stealth.
Cons:
  • Short range, yes, heard me right. See below!
  • Ammo use.
  • Low damage.
  • Low defense.
  • Nonexistent mobility.
    • No Mount use :(
  • No regeneration.

Short range
Many ranged weapon fire in a cone, as such many can't hit consistently without Chlorophyte bullets. Which makes their effective range lower than that of melee weapons if we use any other ammo. We also, can't shoot blindly without wasting ammo we worked hard for, while melee is free and mages have a cheap universal ammo in the form of manapots.
Not to mention Last Prism as it has a perfect 100% aim and Mages can just sweep it around and everything dies instantly within a range of multiple screens.

Ammo use
Here's a funny story: I play ranged, I didn't know that chlorophyte brick exists since 1.3, because I don't have any chrolophyte. Why? I used up thousands of chlorophyte as ammo. End of story.
Ohhh yes, my favourite part. Melee can shoot sword beams with ranges over thousands of blocks for free. Mages have their ultimate "ammo" from killing basic hallowed creatures and buying some pots from an NPC. We farm chlorophyte, crystals, even the Moon Lord itself to get ammo. Get it? We run out of ammo and we have to kill the endgame boss in order to get ammo.
Sometimes I had to farm multiple hard mode worlds I had to get enough chlorophyte in 1.2 for Frost Moons and Pumpkin Moons.
Well, I don't want ranged weapons to become free. it's just unfair that we have to work THAT hard for ammo or make that ammo deal THAT high damage.
When it comes to the fact that I can't even use some bricks, because all the ores I can get are spent on shooting at stuff, it's kinda sad.

Low damage
Well, I admit, we do more than Warriors and Summoners...
...but we can't ever dream of what Mages do and we pay so much!
We sacrifice resources for ammo, mobility for damage, heck, we can't even heal ourselves like they and mages still outdamage and outrange us.

Low defense
Well, we are ranged, it's fine.

Nonexistent mobility
Here comes the funny part, we sacrifice mobility for mediocre damage. I get it, but another problem rises. We worked hard for that mount and killed, even farmed bosses repeateadly for it and then, like a bolt from the blue, we are there, we have the mount and we never use it because it removes our stealth. Why can everyone else show off their mounts while we are forced to use wings?

No regeneration
Okay, this can't be bad, right? Sooo, we can't dodge, because we aren't allowed to use dodge items or mounts and our movement speed is drastically decreased. We can't take hits because we don't have any defense. We can't regenerate back the health we lose.
Which means we are forced out of stealth at which point, our damage drops dramatically so the fight becomes even longer.

My point?
Well, at least let us fly at a reduced speed with mounts or sit in one place while in stealth. Let us use dodge items while we are in stealth.
And if you really care, give us something fun too, because a horrible rocket launcher and one more lame fishgun - I don't care about dolphins being mammals, they are fish for the sake of this thread - aren't fun. Give us something that isn't a fish or a firework, give us something badass and destructive!
If mages can incinerate the planet with a laser while riding an UFO, why can't we have something cool too?
I made a post about new ranged weapons, but I was thinking about something other - so the healing guns and ammo. And, I like current guns, they are not lame! They are cool looking! Original, not classic, special. YOU think about lame weapons. For me there is only ONE weapon that should be added, so something that heals you.
And why you say everything is stupid and bad? I only appreciate your idea with mobility, anything more.
 
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I made a post about new ranged weapons, but I was thinking about something other - so the healing guns and ammo. And, I like current guns, they are not lame! They are cool looking! Original, not classic, special. YOU think about lame weapons. For me there is only ONE weapon that should be added, so something that heals you. Here's the link where I explained that and wrote my ideas what the ranger class needs: http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/new-ranged-weapons-and-ammo.26975/
And why you say everything is stupid and bad? I only appreciate your idea with mobility, anything more.
Don't advertise on other peoples threads, it's quite rude.

OT: I pretty much agree, this is the reason I stopped playing ranger and switched to Mage/Melee, and stealth isn't that useful, maybe they should introduce a new armour designed for dodging?
 
Here's the link where I explained that and wrote my ideas what the ranger class needs: http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/new-ranged-weapons-and-ammo.26975/

@Piterros990, please refrain from posting links to your own threads in other people's threads, unless they ask for it first. You are welcome to use your signature to advertise your ideas, if you like.

Don't advertise on other peoples threads, it's quite rude.

@DarthCryo04, you can report and move on next time. Let the moderators handle things like this.
 
I made a post about new ranged weapons, but I was thinking about something other - so the healing guns and ammo. And, I like current guns, they are not lame! They are cool looking! Original, not classic, special. YOU think about lame weapons. For me there is only ONE weapon that should be added, so something that heals you. Here's the link where I explained that and wrote my ideas what the ranger class needs: http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/new-ranged-weapons-and-ammo.26975/
And why you say everything is stupid and bad? I only appreciate your idea with mobility, anything more.

Looks
Well, others have awesome lifeform disintegration rainbows and swords that make the very stars fall from the heavens in anger, raining down doom on anything. Sounds like pure awesomeness.
We have a fish - yes, for this thread, dolphins are downgraded to fish -, but not even a shark, it's a dolphin. At least Megashark is a shark. Even Minishark is a shark. Now it's a dolphin, it would be a direct downgrade in any The Asylum movie. Sharks are kinda awesome, they look killer. Unlike dolphins, who are the ponies of the oceans.
That's all for the looks, ranged weapons are jokes, while the other classes got the serious stuff.

Uses
Last Prism, geez, that's a sweeping laser! How awesome is that!?
Star Wrath is quite interesting too, after all, it's a blade that shoots falling stars from above.
What do we have? We have a machine gun. I mean, a machine gun that does nothing else. Just shoots bullets like almost every single bullet weapon we had before. Nothing new here!
We already have homing rocket launchers and such, interesting stuff, cool stuff, useful stuff. Now we have a rocket launcher that shoots two rocket and can't destroy terrain. Come on, it's just a rocket launcher that can't destroy terrain with rockets that are designed to destroy terrain. Where is the fun in that!? That's what I call a downgrade from anything we previously had.
Actually, both the Snowman Cannon and the Electrosphere Launcher are BETTER than the Celebration. Oh no, Snowman Cannon nerf commencing...

Alternatives
Of course, we have the Vortex Beater, a machine gun that shoots free rockets. Which would be cool if it were a Moon Lord drop, so it could be slightly faster and it had 3x more damage with a perfect accuracy. Of course, rangers are all about ammo-eater fishguns that have low damage, so we have to farm 3 hours for 30 minutes of combat. Vortex Beater is the perfect solution, it's slow, it has a 66% chance to not consume ammo, the only downside being it's fairly low accuracy and pathetic damage.
Guess what, it's been constantly nerfed over and over, because it's not a Moon Lord drop.
Why can't we have something that is ammo-efficient and powerful at the same time?

Similarly the Phantasm is awesome, except that it was constantly nerfed in every second patch, just because it's not a Moon Lord drop. Why can't they make it a Moon Lord drop instead of nerfing the most interesting ranged weapon we have? Obviusly, the next patch will again nerf the Phantasm, because better nerf Irelia! Last Prism deals 2x more damage than anything else in the game, so better nerf Phantasm!

R4NĐ0M Rant about Last Prism
Last Prism... As some may not know, it shoots 6 different beams constantly, each being a 100% accurate piercing attack with a base damage of 100. As the beams are considered different weapons, all beams can hit the same target at the same time for 6x100 base damage, 6x a second, for 3600 base DPS. Geez, it's practically 600 base damage, it's monstrous.
Mages can have weapons like the Last Prism, while flying freely with their mounts, healing like Wolverine, not giving a care about ammo, because they just buy mana pots from an NPC and craft them from easy monster drops. More powerful, easier to play, less expensive in resources, that's how mages roll.

Reasonable thinking
Even Warriors got 2 blades from the Moon Lord: one is a powerful joke weapon and one is an even more powerful serious weapon. Rangers should have 2 guns from the Moon Lord too, so there could be the S.D.M.G. and another one that has a high chance to not consume ammo, paired with a lower fire rate and a higher damage with a serious look.

I made a post about new ranged weapons, but I was thinking about something other - so the healing guns and ammo. And, I like current guns, they are not lame! They are cool looking! Original, not classic, special. YOU think about lame weapons. For me there is only ONE weapon that should be added, so something that heals you. Here's the link where I explained that and wrote my ideas what the ranger class needs: http://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/new-ranged-weapons-and-ammo.26975/
And why you say everything is stupid and bad? I only appreciate your idea with mobility, anything more.

While I see why would you want healing for ranged - mages and melee has too - I personally don't want to see any ranged healing item. Imagine rangers sitting in stealth, lifestealing...
...do you know what it reminds me? Spectre mage! Back in early 1.2 mages were immortal as long as they had mana potions. Sitting in one place, keeping the left mouse button pressed with a homing spell. That wasn't a game, that was a farming simulator.
 
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@Kardfogu Now I just hope Re-Logic will see this. It's important thread, as it's not only about whining - You have serious arguments that should be taken into ac:red: when making future updates. I fear, though, that no one from staff will se it... Or even worse if they don't care.
BTW, they could make a contest for best ranged endgame weapon idea. I think taht players would brainstorm something amazing... And provide sprites, I've seen so many of these at the "Suggestions" forum that it could make a 1.4 and 1.5 updates using them :D
 
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@Kardfogu Now I just hope Re-Logic will see this. It's important thread, as it's not only about whining - You have serious arguments that should be taken into ac:red: when making future updates. I fear, though, that no one from staff will se it... Or even worse if they don't care.
BTW, they could make a contest for best ranged endgame weapon idea. I think taht players would brainstorm something amazing... And provide sprites, I've seen so many of these at the "Suggestions" forum that it could make a 1.4 and 1.5 updates using them :D

Well, Redigit isn't just a bunch of people, they are the creators of Terraria, talented developers. If any of them sees this, I think, they are going to care about our feedback.
Btw, about suggestions I could make for a new ranged weapon?
Guess we can have some!

Tournament
Damage 30 (Ranged)
Knockback 4
Velocity 20
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 15 (Very Fast)
Mechanic: Shoots 6 rockets simultaenously in a spread, each counting as a different weapon (like the beams of Last Prism). Holding down the right mouse button makes the rockets circle around each other in a tight, precise spread instead.
"Way Beyond Unreal"
Obviously, with rocket that destroy terrain, this rocket launcher would DEMOLISH the living crap out of terrain. Why? Because that's FUN with all capital letters. Especially since Rocket III and Rocket IV does the same damage as of 1.3 so there's no reason to use Rocket IV over Rocket III if you don't want to destroy terrain.

Edit: For those, who didn't play Unreal Tournament, this a direct reference to Unreal Tournament's rocket launcher which was capable of shooting a horizontal spread or a helix-like cluster of 6 rockets at the same time. It was also capable of shooting rockets like grenades and lock on targets, but that would be just too much for one weapon in Terraria.

Tournament (Alternative)
Damage 335 (Ranged)
Knockback 4
Velocity 15
Critical Chance 4%
Rarity Red
Use Time 15 (Very Fast)
Mechanic: Holding Down the mouse right mouse button guides the rocket. The explosion is similar to a nuclear warhead's. Not a firework.
"End their world and Redeem their souls"

Edit: If you never played Unreal Tournament, this is a direct reference to the Redeemer, a guided nuclear warhead, the ultimate weapon of Unreal Tournament.

How's that for a rocket launcher? Obviously looks OP, but 6x30+65 at a rate of 5x a second isn't that OP when you consider that Last Prism deals 6x100 at a rate of 6x a second on a much larger area. Similarly, 335+65 is still weaker than Last Prism. We'd have a reason to use stealth - and play ranged - while maintaining some damage OUT of stealth too.
Of course, stealth would increase these over the DPS of Last Prism, but we pay a high price in ammo and our mobility is crippled in order to gain that damage increase. So I think that's a fair trade.
 
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That tournament idea is HECtic. I like it tons, and this thread needs some popularity!
I'm happy you liked these, I may add these to the opening comment, along with others. Tournament was just the beginning of how awesome a gun could be.

As always, I'll use Last Prism -
6 beams, functionally 6 different weapon, triggering different invulnerability frames, not shared between any two of them.
Each beam is piercing, so each them can and will damage the target up to 6x a second.
That means 3600 base DPS
Demonic will increase it's damage by 15%, increasing it's base DPS to 4140.
- as the guide line. Making anything more powerful than that would be too powerful with stealth, making anything that deals less than 55% of that would make it too weak. In comparison, Unreal S.D.M.G. deals 1665 base DPS with Luminite bullets and Last Prism is way more powerful than that, even under the effects of Mana Sickness.
Anything at a base DPS of ~2500 can be considered a fine Moon Lord drop.

Punishment
Damage 198 (Ranged)
Knockback 4
Velocity 15
Critical Chance 14%
Rarity Red
Use Time 13 (Very Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (217*1.15+22)*2*60/11=2727
Mechanic: The Punishment has a 66% chance to not consume ammo. Punishment fires 2 shots with every single shot, each of them counts as a different weapon, in case of piercing/explosive ammo, they trigger different invulnerability frames too.
"Not vengance, punishment!"

Clockwork Sniper
Damage 174 (Ranged)
Knockback 6
Velocity 10
Critical Chance 24%
Rarity Red
Use Time 13 (Very Fast)
Approx base DPS without criticals (174*1.15+22)*3*60/11=3634
Mechanic: The Clockwork Sniper Rifle shoots in burts of 3, only the first costs ammo. Also, holding Down the mouse right mouse button activates zoom as the Sniper Rifle, it stacks with the Rifle Scope or the Sniper Scope.
"Even a small fragment of the Clockwork Core holds many secrets..."

Well, these might went a bit over the top. We don't really need a better bow than Phantasm. Even after a brainstorm I couldn't think of anything that is more awesome than the Phantasm, the only thing it might need is to become a Moon Lord drop and gain a bit more damage.
 
If Phantasm becomes Moon Lord drop, then we lose Rocket/Special engame weapon that could drop from him along with the S.D.M.G. It propably would need to be also retextured. I really want to see some special engame ranger weapon, not just another bow or rocket launcher. Something using its own ammo; something like Elf Melter (cursed :D), Nail Gun or Stynger. Something really cool. Something badass.
 
If Phantasm becomes Moon Lord drop, then we lose Rocket/Special engame weapon that could drop from him along with the S.D.M.G. It propably would need to be also retextured. I really want to see some special engame ranger weapon, not just another bow or rocket launcher. Something using its own ammo; something like Elf Melter (cursed :D), Nail Gun or Stynger. Something really cool. Something badass.

Well, I wouldn't mind for the S.D.M.G. being removed, actually noone likes it all for the reasons stated above and repeated here:
  1. It's just a machine gun, like every single shark gun was before it. S.D.M.G. is not a new weapon, it's a new texture for a megashark with more damage.
  2. It's a dolphin.
  3. Eats ammo.
Nor would I mind the Celebration being removed, it deals pathetic low damage, it's slow, it's range is low, it looks like a joke, it is overshadowed by countless other rocket weapons...
...so I pretty much would like to have Phantasm as THE endgame ranged weapon. Why? At least it is slightly different from the previous bows with it's additional homing arrows added. At the same time, the mechanics of Phantasm make it obviously far superior to the S.D.M.G. for multiple reasons, like ammo conservation, fun factor, everything.

On the other hand, your point is valid, I'd like to see unique weapons with unique ammo, but if we had no Arrow and Bullet consuming weapons in the late game... ...what would be the reason to use Luminite Bullets or Arrows? We need way more weapons. Even Melee got 3 weapons from the Moon Lord, why can't we have some more too?
So yeah, we need unique weapons with unique ammo - especially because those are the easiest to buy ammo for -, but we need normal guns, bows and rocket launchers too.
As of now, I'd say, Moon Lord should drop more items and less of those should be bad jokes like the ranged weapons are currently.
 
Seems like you're not into stealth,huh? I could offer something for you...What's the opposite of stealth? MORE GUNS of course! So why not add a new breastplate for the Vortex set? Like,I dunno,Vortex Vest,with 2 shoulder mounted turrets,which deal 25% dmg(also the crit. chance is 1\4 too) of the weapon you're holding? It'll cost more ammo,but chances not to consume ammo could also work for these.+if it's not stealth,we need more armor,so it could have slightly more defence. What do you think?
 
I don't really find mobility a problem with the vortex booster's hovering capability, but I am a supporter of better Moon Lord drops. I mean, sure he drops two weapons for each class, but that's still a bit bias in a subclass sort of way. He drops: no spears, no bows, and no non-turret summon. But out of the things the Moon Lord does drop, the melee weapons and magic weapons are the most unique and/or strongest, while the ranged weapons (especially celebration, even though I do like both of them to an extent) remain pretty standard, the S.D.M.G. being an average endgame machine gun, and the Celebration just a firework launcher.... It could atleast shoot a larger spread of fireworks, even if at a slightly lowered damage. Celebrations are fun. more rockets? more fun.
 
Actually, only the Boomstick, the Shotgun, Tactical Shotgun, Chain Gun, Gatligator and Vortex Beater fire in a cone.
As for ammo, Venom Bullets and the Endless Quiver/ Pouch both help at that, while Ichor and Crystal farms are easy to set up. The only real problem being Luminite Bullets.
As for the low damage, the SDMG with Luminite Bullets can reach the same DPS as the Last Prism, while the Blizzard Staff (Which is impractical underground) is the only FM weapon that can reliabily deal more DPS than a Chain Gun with Crystal or Ichor bullets.
As for the (lack of) mobility... I never understood why Red thought that was a good idea, considering that, due to how the game works, it was obvious that losing so much mobility wouldn't be a good idea at all (In my opinion, Shroomite should have a set bonus per helmet, and vortex armor should give the player additional projectiles per shot).
As for the low defense, mage and summoner armor has it even worse. It doesn't seem like so because they don't have crappy mobility-impairing set bonuses.
As for the SDMG not being cool enough, I'll have to tell you that dolphins kill sharks for fun. That should be enough of a reason to do that.
As for the Celebration, it's awful.

As for the suggested weapons, their stats are quite insane upon taking armor (Not set bonuses, just stat increases) into account, but the effects are actually interesting, and there is a new burst weapon.
 
@TMB50 S.D.M.G. + luminite bullets reaches that much DPS only when enemies are lined; if there are less than 4 of them, or you're fighting some boss, Chlorophyte ones outcast them in everything except per-hit damage.
I'm also not sure if luminite bullets trigger the 1/6 second immunity. If they do, real damage is lowered by 50-66%, though I'm not sure if this immunity actually triggers. Though they surely lose a little bit of damage with each enemy penetrated.

@Kardfogu Yeah, I was talking about one additional endgame weapon with unique propeties, not that most of Moon Lord's drops should be such. A really powerful machinegun is also needed; though I think that Gatling Gun would do the job perfectly, look awesome and be badass.

Also, I'd like to comlain a bit on how small amount of Chlorophyte Bullets is created per bar. Even arrows are made in 1/150 ratio!
 
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