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PC Ranged may require some tweaks...

Does Ranged require any changes?

  • Give them mobility, this game is like Touhou, it's all about dodging!

    Votes: 46 35.1%
  • Give them new weapons! Anything that isn't a fish or a firework.

    Votes: 27 20.6%
  • Mobility or better weapons? Why not both! Mages have both too...

    Votes: 66 50.4%
  • Give rangers nothing, I don't think they deserve it.

    Votes: 19 14.5%
  • Or give rangers the ability to build sentry like minions and arm them with ranged weaponry!

    Votes: 23 17.6%
  • Change/give Vortex Armor a set bonus which grants damage bonus based on how fast the player moves!

    Votes: 29 22.1%
  • Change the movement speed penalties to defense penalties on Vortex Armor.

    Votes: 27 20.6%

  • Total voters
    131
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Actually, I meant that vents could replace this little star... But yeah, it looks pretty good even as it is.
And I thought on something... strange. Listen to my idea:
As this weapon would be unique both in per-hit damage (woah!), way it works (charged, but not shooting if full charge is not achieved)...
Maybe it could be first, and only weapon in entire game to use two types of ammo for every shot?
I mean, to shoot, You would need both star and luminite ore (or another ingredients) in inventory, one of each consumed for shot. Why not? Devs would have even less work with adding items. And it would be useful for other classes as well, bacuse now they could store Luminite Ore in unused ammo slots ;)
Just saying. IMO ammo needs to be really expensive in materials, and use only endgame-ones.
EDIT: I do realize that there are cons of this solution (two slots needed for ammo), but it would be somehow compensated by it's pros (ex. it could be used as ammo, but even if so, then you still can craft with it if you need, so no one-way conversion)
Hmmm.... Alright, that sounds like a reasonable idea. So, this is the final form?



"Nova Cannon"
5000 Ranged Damage
Insane Knockback
Takes 3 seconds to charge.
Can not be fired uncharged.
Uses Stars and Luminite Ore seperately as ammo.
"The Seeds of Evil will run in fear."

(Made the quote reference Turok 2, which was the inspiration for the weapon in the first place. :3)
 

Neutral Effect

Steampunker
Hmmm.... Alright, that sounds like a reasonable idea. So, this is the final form?



"Nova Cannon"
5000 Ranged Damage
Insane Knockback
Takes 3 seconds to charge.
Can not be fired uncharged.
Uses Stars and Luminite Ore seperately as ammo.
"The Seeds of Evil will run in fear."

(Made the quote reference Turok 2, which was the inspiration for the weapon in the first place. :3)
Why not. Also, the tooltip sounds really awesome.
Also, could You be so kind and paste also alternative version You made here? You know, this Vortex-coloured :D
 
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Neutral Effect

Steampunker
What tool do you Use to sprite?
[DOUBLEPOST=1438710571,1438710493][/DOUBLEPOST]And should we Wait til a Dev sees this Thread or Should we Contact them?
Don't worry about that. Kardfogu is planning to write message to them, though before that everything must be perfect and fine.
Though I won't let him do all the work.
 
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Neutral Effect

Steampunker
Wait wait WAIT....
PAINT? Rly? and i sit here, Trying to Learn GIMP for Days....
WAT!?
You must be joking, right? xD
Okay, I've seen people with amazing MS paint skills, but those people only use MS Paint for the challange, they otherwise use GIMP or Adobe PS mostly...
Don't be surprised, it's really effective - and simple.
But you're going off-top...
Using other software is dumb. Especially as they take space on your HDD, and GIMP takes time to launch.
 
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I've always used (and prefered) MS Paint. Sure, it doesn't do transparency, but I usually don't need that for spriting until the sprites are 100% done and not part of a sprite sheet. :3 MS Paint is incredibly easy to use, especially when you know the feature the eraser tool has that lets you recolor specific parts with ease. Plus, the interface is incredibly user-friendly. :v

Also, I've fixed my sprites, as there was a part in the claws that was the wrong color, making it look a little jagged.





Oh, I just looked at the first page. xD
You should fix either the Nuke's or the Nova Cannon's quote to the one I said earlier on this page ("The Seeds of Evil will run in fear.") After all, it's a reference to the inspiration for this weapon, Turok 2's Nuke. :p
 
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I always thought ranged players were the OP ones.
In expert mode, my poor spell books only served as support agains The Twins, while a Titanium repeater with holy arrows and NOT EVEN ranged modifiers (such as a ranged helmet variant) anihilated the hopeless eyes.

Short range
melee is free and mages have a cheap universal ammo in the form of manapots.
Melee - Oh yes, the have the best defense and free projectiles.
Mages - Stop right there: you aren't free from using mana pots. It melts your damage. You have to spend mana wisely, or sit in a spot waiting for it to regen.

Ammo use
Ohhh yes, my favourite part. Melee can shoot sword beams with ranges over thousands of blocks for free. Mages have their ultimate "ammo" from killing basic hallowed creatures and buying some pots from an NPC.
Rangers have endless variants of arrows and bullets. With mediocre damage, yes, but is better that running out of ammo, isn't it?

Low damage
...but we can't ever dream of what Mages do and we pay so much!
We sacrifice resources for ammo, mobility for damage, heck, we can't even heal ourselves like they and mages still outdamage and outrange us.
Resources for ammo... You can grow clorophyte (well, that's a grind) or use the endless variant to kill insignificant enemies.
Mobility for damage, I agree that is a big problem in singleplayer, but in multiplayer, the reduced enemy aggro counters that.

Low defense
Nonexistent mobility


Warding accesories. Also, ranged has more defense than mages/summoners.
Nonexistent? that's one hasty generalization.

No regeneration
we don't have any defense.
That's another hasty generalization, but yeah, nebula armor gives increased regeneration. only nebula. and the buff is shared in multiplayer

My point?
If mages can incinerate the planet with a laser while riding an UFO, why can't we have something cool too?
Personally, I don't have complaints about the design of ranged weapons, and even my ranged friend loved the S.D.M.G.
 

Kardfogu

Steampunker
Always mages. They have the best weapons, they aren't slowed down by their armor, they don't have to farm ammo, they can attack through walls, they even heal themselves and they are the ones always whining. Even poor summoners aren't whining so much despite the fact that summoners never get the love from the developers...

Mages - Stop right there: you aren't free from using mana pots. It melts your damage. You have to spend mana wisely, or sit in a spot waiting for it to regen.
Ohhh come on, spells deal much more damage even after 50% damage reduction than ranged weaponry. Not to mention that I played mage and I never ever ran out of mana after reaching the base maximum mana of 200. It's simply impossible, everything drops mana stars. One must be terribly lame at this game to ever run out of mana.
Ever heard of Last Prism? Even when mana sickness decreases it's DPS by 50% it still outdamages S.D.M.G. by far.
Lunar Flare? Almost the same broken DPS, except on a smaller area, but wait, it passes through walls. What do we have that passes through walls and instagibs bosses?
Ohhh please. Stop it, you have much more powerful weapons and you don't have to farm ammo for them. No reason for you to start crying on how bad it is for you.

Warding accesories. Also, ranged has more defense than mages/summoners.
Yeah defense of course. Defense doesn't matter. Calculations are already done, even if you take damage every second without ever dodging anything, mages won't die any sooner than a ranged player.
Vortex 62 armor.
Nebula 46 armor.
The difference is 16 armor, 8 less damage taken. Nebula heals 12hp/s. If you ever dodge anything at all, the heal from Nebula heals far more than what you lost due to less defense. As such, mages are actually way more tanky.
Always the same argument about defense, but it's never correct, mages always try to hide the fact that they heal more than the damage they actually take.
Mythbusted.

Personally, I don't have complaints about the design of ranged weapons, and even my ranged friend loved the S.D.M.G.
That's for you. You never use them, you have no complaints. Fine, don't post it here then.
 

Neutral Effect

Steampunker
I always thought ranged players were the OP ones.
In expert mode, my poor spell books only served as support agains The Twins, while a Titanium repeater with holy arrows and NOT EVEN ranged modifiers (such as a ranged helmet variant) anihilated the hopeless eyes.
We're talking about endgame, which is the most important part, because - sooner or later, but unevitably - You'll be stuck there.
But yes, we have some advantage in most of the hardmode, I must say, which should be balanced either by giving Mages (and, possibly, Warriors) new toys, or slightly nerfing Rangers (We had a lot of nerfs, so too much would make community really angry).
Melee - Oh yes, the have the best defense and free projectiles.
Mages - Stop right there: you aren't free from using mana pots. It melts your damage. You have to spend mana wisely, or sit in a spot waiting for it to regen.
I prefer to call them "Warriors", as they are parody of what Melee should be.
About mana:
It differs drastically from our ammo. But even with 50% damage reduction, Mage's endgame weapons can match ours. Not to say that without it they're much stronger than ours (counting that both characters use them in endgame armors).
You see, we can match not-manasick Mage's weapons only stealthed. It's different problem, so won't say about it much. But while we are forced out of stealth most of the fights (especially Moon Lord, Frost and Pumpkin Moon), You can use mana-regenerating pots, as well as Clairvoyance and Magic Power buffs to counter this damage reduction. And, if it's event, keeping mana high with mana stars is even easier than using pots. So, we can only for moments match Your max damage, while You drop to our damage only for moments. Slightly unfair, isn't it?
Rangers have endless variants of arrows and bullets. With mediocre damage, yes, but is better that running out of ammo, isn't it?
Damage is of essence, don't even try to tell it isn't. But while mage's weapons have a lot of special propeties, our weapons are intended to gain it by using various ammo types, without it - let's say it - being crap, not usable in real fights.
Resources for ammo... You can grow clorophyte (well, that's a grind) or use the endless variant to kill insignificant enemies.
Mobility for damage, I agree that is a big problem in singleplayer, but in multiplayer, the reduced enemy aggro counters that.
SP is far more important than MP, though I won't give reasons for this - it's a completely different discussion.
But mages have other advantages in MP... which work in SP as well! But our works in latter only. Fair? I think not. Not to mention that I don't like MP - and I'm not only one, I can assure You.
Warding accesories. Also, ranged has more defense than mages/summoners.
Nonexistent? that's one hasty generalization.
Warding accesories will make the tremendous difference between us and Mages even larger. Also, Mages have their bonuses allowing them to heal what they lost in the middle of battle (Spectre/Nebula bonuses; Life Drain for minor injuries), so it's reasonable we have slightly more. Summoners... they are not finished.
About nonexistent mobility - it's because we have to choose: deal less damage than mages, or take more damage than them? Yes, it's generalization,- assuming that we choose to deal the same damage as Mages, as if we want this, we must have nonexistent mobility. Second option is to have the same mobility as Mages, but dealing WAY less damage. Still, unfair, as they get both at once.
That's another hasty generalization, but yeah, nebula armor gives increased regeneration. only nebula. and the buff is shared in multiplayer
Nebula, Spectre, Life Drain. Not to mention that first and third don't even lower your DPS, and Life Drain can be used as side-arm, not sacrificing anything, just for moment to heal, returning to happy incinerating world with Last Prism/raining down hell with Lunar Flare when life's ok.
Personally, I don't have complaints about the design of ranged weapons, and even my ranged friend loved the S.D.M.G.
Because your signature, most powerful weapons are totally cool and badass. We have complaints, because we use them. It's normal that if You don't use something a lot, then You can't say it's downsides.
And, as many of us said: S.D.M.G. could be better, but is good. It's not a real problem.
But damned Celebration IS A PROBLEM. Low damage, low DPS, being just a joke, a firework! Not to mention it's unability to destroy terrain, low projectile speed, low range and terrible accuracy, it's just NOT AWESOME.
Especially compared to Last Prism/Lunar Flare/Star Wrath/Terrarian. Even Meowmere, being joke, is at least really strong. Summoner ML drops... I won't say much about them. They are really cool, but I guess not much of a use in real battle. But, as I said, Summoners are WIP, so it's likely to change soon.

Hah, I feared that You'll reply before me :D
 
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Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
WAT!?
You must be joking, right? xD
Okay, I've seen people with amazing MS paint skills, but those people only use MS Paint for the challange, they otherwise use GIMP or Adobe PS mostly...
Wait wait WAIT....
PAINT? Rly? and i sit here, Trying to Learn GIMP for Days....
MS Paint is great for spriting, as long as you have something else for the transparency. All the stuff I ever did was in MS Paint.
 

DarkVenom

Skeletron
MS Paint is great for spriting, as long as you have something else for the transparency. All the stuff I ever did was in MS Paint.
Oh man.....When i saw "Leinfors quoted your Post"...i Immediatly thought "Oh Please god no....did i Do something wrong? DID i? Oh God!"...
Damn...I Nearly crapped myself...
 
But damned Celebration IS A PROBLEM. Low damage, low DPS, being just a joke, a firework! Not to mention it unability to destroy terrain, low priojectile speed, low range and terrible accuracy, it's just NOT AWESOME.
Especially comapred to Last Prism/Lunar Flare/Star Wrath/Terrarian. Even Meowmere, being joke, is at least pretty strong. Summoner ML drops... I won't say much about them. They are really cool, but I guess not much of a use in real battle. But, as I said, Summoners are WIP, so it's likely to change soon.
And this is exactly why I've been trying my hardest to make the Nova Cannon / Nuke. <3

Warriors can rain down stars and bouncy cats, and even get a sick yoyo.
Mages get to hit everything on the screen they want to with lunar death bullets, and destroy everything in their sight with a pretty kamehameha.
Summoners get two really cool sentries. (A laser death portal, and a sweet rave party crystal. xD)

So let's change the ranger from
"Fish gun and pathetic fireworks"
to
"A freakin' NUKE and fish gun" :3
 
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