Rethinking Hardmode Gun Progression - Ore-Tiered Guns

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by SzGamer227, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. SzGamer227

    SzGamer227 Spazmatism

    In order to get a scope of the progression of ranged weapons in early Hardmode, I went through all of the major ranged weapons and analyzed their DPS against various levels of enemies. In doing so, I discovered a major glitch in the usefulness of repeaters: The Phoenix Blaster, a pre-Hardmode weapon, is practically just as effective as the best repeaters in Hardmode, essentially making them useless altogether. Don’t believe me? Try looking at the numbers for yourself.

    These are the effective DPS of these weapons while using 10 damage ammunition versus light armor (10 defense), medium armor (20 defense), and heavy armor (30 defense). To make comparison easier, I've color coded the DPS values (for each armor level) according to their effectiveness against the bows listed under reference.

    Molten Fury, Cobalt, Palladium, Mythril, Orichalcum, Adamantite, Titanium, Hallowed
    Molten Fury
    Damage: 29 (+10)
    Use Time: 24 (2.5 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 85
    DPS v. Medium: 73
    DPS v. Heavy: 60

    [​IMG]
    Cobalt Repeater
    Damage: 32 (+10)
    Use Time: 24 (2.5 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 93
    DPS v. Medium: 80
    DPS v. Heavy: 68

    [​IMG]
    Palladium Repeater
    Damage: 34 (+10)
    Use Time: 23 (2.6 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 102
    DPS v. Medium: 89
    DPS v. Heavy: 76

    [​IMG]
    Mythril Repeater
    Damage: 36 (+10)
    Use Time: 22 (2.7 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 112
    DPS v. Medium: 98
    DPS v. Heavy: 85

    [​IMG]
    Orichalcum Repeater
    Damage: 38 (+10)
    Use Time: 21 (2.9 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 123
    DPS v. Medium: 109
    DPS v. Heavy: 94

    [​IMG]
    Adamantite Repeater
    Damage: 41 (+10)
    Use Time: 19 (3.2 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 142
    DPS v. Medium: 126
    DPS v. Heavy: 111

    [​IMG]
    Titanium Repeater
    Damage: 41 (+10)
    Use Time: 18 (3.3 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 153
    DPS v. Medium: 137
    DPS v. Heavy: 120

    [​IMG]
    Hallowed Repeater
    Damage: 43 (+10)
    Use Time: 18 (3.3 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 160
    DPS v. Medium: 143
    DPS v. Heavy: 127

    [​IMG]
    Handgun
    Damage: 15 (+10)
    Use Time: 11 (5.5 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 109
    DPS v. Medium: 82
    DPS v. Heavy: 55

    [​IMG]
    Phoenix Blaster
    Damage: 23 (+10)
    Use Time: 10 (6 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 168
    DPS v. Medium: 138
    DPS v. Heavy: 108

    With that said, now it's time for the meat of my suggestion: Nerf the Phoenix Blaster, reduce the damage of the Handgun by one point, and add new ore-tiered firearms. The statistical changes for the proposed Handgun and Phoenix Blaster would look like this:

    [​IMG]
    Handgun (Nerfed)
    Damage: 14 (+10)
    Use Time: 11 (5.5 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 104
    DPS v. Medium: 76
    DPS v. Heavy: 49

    [​IMG]
    Phoenix Blaster (Nerfed)
    Damage: 17 (+10)
    Use Time: 10 (6 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 132
    DPS v. Medium: 102
    DPS v. Heavy: 72

    As you can see, this would severely reduce the Phoenix Blaster's effectiveness as a Hardmode Weapon, but would by no means make it useless. It would remain highly effective against enemies with less defense, but would no longer replace repeaters entirely. As for the Handgun, it would remain a powerful pre-Hardmode gun (still second to the Phoenix Blaster) and would remain useful against lightly armored enemies, so there is virtually no difference.

    Now for the new guns. The pre-1.2 ores would be used to craft semi-automatic weapons, and the higher-leveled variants would be more powerful fully-automatic weapons. Click the spoiler for an explanation, or just look at the stats below to get an idea.
    The fully-automatic weapons would be very effective against light armor, but lose effectiveness against heavy armor. The semi-automatic ones would be a middle ground between fully-automatic and repeaters, still being more effective against light armor, but not losing quite as much effectiveness against heavier targets. As these items rise through the tiers, they become slightly slower, but do more and more damage to compensate. Despite being less effective against weaker enemies, repeaters would remain the best option for attacking enemies with more defense.

    Many thanks to Brutallama for the sprites!

    [​IMG]
    Cobalt Pistol
    Semi-automatic
    Damage: 17 (+10)
    Use Time: 12 (5 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 110
    DPS v. Medium: 85
    DPS v. Heavy: 60
    Knockback: 2.5
    Velocity: 10

    [​IMG]
    Mythril Revolver
    Semi-automatic
    Damage: 24 (+10)
    Use Time: 14 (4.3 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 124
    DPS v. Medium: 103
    DPS v. Heavy: 81
    Knockback: 3
    Velocity: 11

    [​IMG]
    Adamantite Rifle
    Semi-automatic
    Damage: 34 (+10)
    Use Time: 16 (3.8 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 146
    DPS v. Medium: 128
    DPS v. Heavy: 109
    Knockback: 3.5
    Velocity: 12

    [​IMG]
    Palladium SMG
    Fully-automatic
    Damage: 14 (+10)
    Use Time: 9 (6.7 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 127
    DPS v. Medium: 93
    DPS v. Heavy: 60
    Knockback: 1
    Velocity: 9.5

    [​IMG]
    Orichalcum Assault Rifle
    Fully-automatic
    Damage: 21 (+10)
    Use Time: 10 (6 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 150
    DPS v. Medium: 120
    DPS v. Heavy: 90
    Knockback: 1.5
    Velocity: 10

    [​IMG]
    Titanium Machine Gun
    Fully-automatic
    Damage: 26 (+10)
    Use Time: 11 (5.5 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 169
    DPS v. Medium: 142
    DPS v. Heavy: 115
    Knockback: 2
    Velocity: 10.5

    This one isn't strictly necessary, or particularly useful for game progression, but I think I’ll just throw this out there while I’m at the rest of this stuff, since it wouldn't fit in anywhere else and there’s no reason not to:

    [​IMG]
    The Vulcan (Hallowed Minigun)
    Fully-automatic
    Damage: 19 (+10)
    Use Time: 7 (8.6 shots/sec)
    DPS v. Light: 206
    DPS v. Medium: 163
    DPS v. Heavy: 120
    Knockback: 1
    Velocity: 10

    If you have a concern about this suggestion, make sure you read through everything thoroughly and look at the statistics more closely before voicing concern. Other than that, let me know what you think. I will listen to comments and respond as soon as I can. Thank you.

    This has been successfully modded! Thanks Scironex!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
    Aiflynn, Popmen, Cheezegami and 23 others like this.
  2. Youfad

    Youfad Skeletron Prime

    I like it!
     
  3. Dragrath

    Dragrath Skeletron Prime

    I Approve but at he same time it makes me wonder if we need a hardmode upgrade for the Phoenix blaster to retain the OP blaster aspect (hell it could shoot phoenixes!)
    though that would be something for hardmode hell
     
  4. Lecic

    Lecic Steampunker

    I greatly agree with this post. Phoenix blaster is a wonderful thing, but it's way too OP compared to the repeaters.

    Also, could the undertaker and musket be crafted with crimtane and demonite, respectively?
     
  5. SzGamer227

    SzGamer227 Spazmatism

    Why? That would mean moving them back/forward a tier, which I would advise against.
     
  6. Lecic

    Lecic Steampunker

    So players can remake them before defeating a goblin army and finding the tinkerer.
     
  7. SzGamer227

    SzGamer227 Spazmatism

    Um, no thanks. Not worth messing with the tiers, in my opinion. Feel free to make your own thread, though.
     
  8. Niranufoti

    Niranufoti Skeletron Prime

    Isn't that called the Venus Magnum? Sure, there's a lot of time in between them, but they're the same base concept, don't you think?
     
  9. Pixel

    Pixel Terrarian

    Really nice idea, I'm loving it! Stop making me dribble over you incredible format! *raises fist*
     
  10. CycloneSP

    CycloneSP Steampunker

    Interesting thoughts. I don't quite understand how your dmg calcs work against heavy armor'd enemies tho. If gun A does 10 dmg per bullet and hits 4 times a second and gun B does 20 dmg per bullet and hits 2 times a second, then they should have the same dps vs all targets, no?

    Also, I know you are only discussing automatic/semi-automatic weapons but what about shotguns? If I remember correctly(which is entirely possible I'm not) then isn't the shot gun acquired from the merchant the highest grade shotgun available? Wouldn't it be nice to have a burst alternative to the ammo hungry guns?
     
  11. Lecic

    Lecic Steampunker

    Highest level shotty is the Tactical Shotgun.
     
  12. TehCooKidz

    TehCooKidz Skeletron Prime

    a hallowed minigun? heck yeah!
     
  13. SzGamer227

    SzGamer227 Spazmatism

    Nope. Defense subtract directly from the base damage. An enemy with 10 defense reduces damage by 5. Now, gun A does 5 damage 4 times a second, or 20 DPS, and gun B does 25 damage twice a second for 30 DPS. Slow firing weapons with high damage are more effective against armored enemies than faster ones that deal less damage.
     
  14. CycloneSP

    CycloneSP Steampunker

    Huh, well isn't that interesting. Feels odd, but I can't really seem to deny it when you put it that way.
     
  15. Lecic

    Lecic Steampunker

    That is, until you reach the point where you're only doing 1 or a few more with the high damage gun against a high defense enemy, at which point the gun that is faster and is also doing 1 due to the high defense has higher DPS.
     
  16. bad_news

    bad_news Retinazer

    That only applies to DG and prime during the day :p
     
    SzGamer227 likes this.
  17. antibehroz

    antibehroz Steampunker

    Yes, since we also need some kind of way not to jump straight from the fast gun that's not frost moon (name?), phoniex blaster, or minishark to megashark.
     
  18. bad_news

    bad_news Retinazer

    Gatligator? Uzi?
     
  19. antibehroz

    antibehroz Steampunker

    Gatligator and the UZI is in HM Jungle which you don't venture until you have the megashark when your guns only.
     
  20. bad_news

    bad_news Retinazer

    Uzi is a fast non-frost moon gun.