PC [Semi-Spoiler] Why is Melee Turning into a Ranged Class?

LawAbidingCactus said:
I already answered your question about my definition of base damage before you made the first post on this page, for starters. Additionally, the sort of input you're giving isn't the sort of input I'm seeking; I was looking for constructive input. Again, thanks for taking the time to reply to this thread. I take back what I said about not replying; if you have any further questions, I'll do my best to answer them. :happy:
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Not a problem at all, thank you for a positive response. My inquiry about your definition of what classifies as a "base" damage is what puzzled me. I wasn't sure if you include modifiers as a base, but being able to achieve 400+ modified is completely doable.

As Leinfors said, you used the term as being modified. My interpretation was that you assumed it was 400, unmodified.

But, on topic, melee-ranged hybrid capabilities have been around for some time. It's perhaps only recently that such a hybrid is being capitalized on.
 
Melee is quite powerful yes, but they are not the most powerful class in the game. I've tried all of the new end-game armors with melee and summoner being the ones i've had the most time with. If anything, the most powerful class with next to no downsides is summoner. With the addition of the stardust weapons and armor they can stand still and do nothing and still wipe out anything that gets within their range. Stardust dragon with summoning potion + Stardust Armor + Pygmy Necklace + Papyrus Scarab does 400(non-crit) damage PER SEGMENT and it can coil around a target making about 3 to 5 segments hit at a time. A single pass through by Stardust dragon can probably one shot a maxed defense player ( Im not sure since i've only played single player with these items ) and that's only with 6 minion capacity out of 8 ( Stardust dragon's damage scales with how many segments it has. 1 minion = 1 segment). Thats just if they're standing still. They only time that i couldn't use summoner was during the solar flare pillar because of the stupidly high damage that Srollers do to you. IMPO summoners are currently the most powerful class
 
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Leinfors said:
Base damage normally does refer to "unmodified damage", but in this case, he is using it to refer to modified direct damage as listed on the weapon's tooltip and on a hit. While your definitions are different, it doesn't change the basis of what he is arguing, just the choice of words to do so. I'd ask that you politely leave the hostility out of your posts, especially when discussing word choice and definitions.

Also, for the record, I pretty quickly managed this:
View attachment 60340

The base attack speed of Meowmere is 15, and with Legendary and a few other melee speed buffs, its probably around 11 right now. Assuming a use time of 11, a modified damage of 536, and a critical strike chance of 42% (which results in an mean damage of about 761 per hit), the Meowmere should be doing 4150 direct damage per second while in striking distance of the enemy (this does not include projectile damage).

Just some information, since there seem to be criticisms of the quality of the data.
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Thank you for this good reply! Even though the damage output appears to be really high, we should all remember that Meowmere is a current END-game item. There's nothing really beyond these end-game items. They shouldn't feel weak, should they? Not to forget it isn't that easy to get either, since it drops from the Moon Lord right? Pretty end-game to me.
 
Leinfors said:
I'd ask that you politely leave the hostility out of your posts, especially when discussing word choice and definitions.
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No hostility intended, perhaps you may have perceived it as such? Merely an inquiry.

Modifiers or not, yes, the Meowmere is capable of 400+ damage easily. However, the ranged capabilities of it are limited or lacking compared to, say, a bow or gun projectiles (unless you're inside, where I believe the Meowmere can thrive). It simply cannot perform even close to ranged capabilities of the Phantasm or SDMG (as it should be). The Phantasm with Luminite arrows (and the new armor) dish out the highest DPS I've seen possible, at the expense of ammo, of course (Phantasm x3 arrows, 4-5 more homing arrows if it hits, and the passive effect of Luminite arrows shooting another few arrows. That's a lot of arrows in such a short time).

It takes a few seconds to kill an expert mode paladin by relying on the Meowmere's projectiles alone. However, it doesn't mean the Meowmere can be dismissed so easily, it's incredibly powerful.

In the overworld, I'd say Star Wrath reigns supreme in a DPS comparison versus the Meowmere, as the star projectiles are not only faster, but multiplied by three instead of one (and don't have a height limit as opposed to Meowmere projectiles). My personal conclusion is that Meowmere is best inside, while Star Wrath is best outside (as a general rule, there are exceptions). Of course this is my own conclusion.
 
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Clearly you haven't done expert mode then. I was playing melee on the lunar event, got hit by a sroller for 967 damage wearing offensive beetle armor.

Nine HUNDRED and sixty seven damage.
 
Mohl said:
Clearly you haven't done expert mode then. I was playing melee on the lunar event, got hit by a sroller for 967 damage wearing offensive beetle armor.

Nine HUNDRED and sixty seven damage.
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I know how you feel, out of the 16 times i died trying to do it for the first time before i got a strat down, i once stepped with in with defensive beetle armor, iron skin, life regen, warding on all my accessories, reduction potion, frozen shell, celestial stone, and sun stone(i forgot that i had a worm scarf). I walked in and got one-shot by an Sroller

Edit: I just remembered that i was on expert so that could explain why that fight was so rediculous
 
I honestly don't see a problem. Infact, the new melee additions are balancing out the classes.

  • Melee has spears, swords, hammers, boomerangs/discs and now YoYo's
  • Ranged has bows, repeaters, guns, rocket launchers and now has it's own sub-class: Throwing
  • Magic has all different sorts of powerful weapons. It also has a sub-class: Summoner
I think that's pretty even in my view
 
Gorateron said:
Thank you for this good reply! Even though the damage output appears to be really high, we should all remember that Meowmere is a current END-game item. There's nothing really beyond these end-game items. They shouldn't feel weak, should they? Not to forget it isn't that easy to get either, since it drops from the Moon Lord right? Pretty end-game to me.
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Definitely true! High damage, but I think its completely fitting. :)
 
Gorateron said:
Me too, I mean.. just listen.. 'Meow.. meow meow meow meow.. MEOW.. meow meow.. MEOW!' .. that deserves high damage.
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I was asked when a friend of mine was watching "Doesn't that meowing annoy you?", and I replied, "Nope! Not one bit. Kind of catchy, actually."
 
RAinbowsword12 said:
Don't forget about the awesome solar armor and vortex armor set bonuses, which in my opinion are better than the mage set bonus and slightly better than the stardust armor set bonus.(I gotta admit, the stardust armor set bonus is pretty awesome though). Solar armor gets a shield that blocks 3 attacks and allows you to dash, it regens very fast and is kinda what melee needed. The vortex armor allows you to go stealth which increases pretty much all stats for ranged weapons. It also makes you practically invisible. I have to admit, I am very happy with the increase of summoner items and summoner is a very playable class now. If you think that the other classes can't compete with summoner, you obviously haven't used the star wrath, last prism, and the phantasm which are arguably the best weapons for each class.
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I will honestly have to say the mage set bonus is the best, at least in moon events hands down since the nebula buffs stack on each other up to 3 times.

With Nebula Armor and Last Prism, you can Shrek wave 15 on the Pumpkin Moon and maybe also the Frost Moon as well ;D (I know this is kind of off topic though.)
 
Cryax said:
I will honestly have to say the mage set bonus is the best, at least in moon events hands down since the nebula buffs stack on each other up to 3 times.

With Nebula Armor and Last Prism, you can Shrek wave 15 on the Pumpkin Moon and maybe also the Frost Moon as well ;D (I know this is kind of off topic though.)
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I like the mage set bonus too, but it sometimes is a hassle trying to get to the buff things. I think they are all awesome, but it really depends on your play style. Oh and don't forget about the lunar flare of wreckiness!!!!
 
I think the melee weapons are this way simply because every other class can beat a melee user simply by running and shooting.
Still, I dislike projectile Melee weapons, as it just doesn't seem like I'm doing anything other than running away and shooting.
 
Although melee is powerful. It is one of my favorite classes because of the large amount of def. it does not have the best option for end games. For example, moon lord is very difficult with melee. it has low dps on bosses or anything that is farm away and also has the risk of being overwhelmed. When I went to farm a few Dungeon Guardians, I found that the phantasm, with the endless musket pouch, and a few star dust cells on the side had an amazing dps of up to 80 on the when only dealing 1 damage per hit. melee could only reach a lower damage of maybe 20. so melee does deal the most damage, but does not allow for the most simple of ranged fighting until you beat the solar pillar (where you get the daybreak and solar eruption). So although it is true that melee has the most defence it deals very little damage on end game, high def., far away opponents.
 
Sudden thread necro!? Are people calling end-game melee overpowered or just that it has too many range attacks? (yes I did read through the comments) Personally I find it strange that late-game melee weapons do more damage with their projectiles than the actual sword.
 
I think it would be fine if the projectiles would have a bigger delay or less damage per hit. I don't mind projectile swords, but there are weapons that shouldn't be classed as meele.

An example? Daybreak. A much weaker alternative - Bone Javelin, is a THROWN weapon and they act very similarly. Daybreak acts the same way, but it's way more powerful and it doesn't consume any ammo. So why not call this also a thrown weapon? The only difference (not minding power) is that it doesn't consume ammo.
 
I was thinking about this the other day, but a stamina mechanic for melee projectiles could be a viable option. Melee players gain stamina by fighting mobs with melee attacks, and stamina is used to spawn projectiles. It would cap at 200, like mana, and regenerates like mana but more gradually, taking a few minutes to fill up, and would also drain slower than mana. You could also toggle stamina usage so you have the option to not use the projectiles at all and save stamina for a larger fight later on. To go with this, we could also make mana be earned by using magic attacks over time, or add a crystal that would increase stamina by 20.
 
LawAbidingCactus said:
Yeah, another user suggested adding a 'diminishing returns' mechanic to projectile melee weapons. Something like the 'Mana Sickness' debuff, but for Melee users. I mean, Mages and Rangers are punished for spamming, so why shouldn't Melees be punished as well?
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I fail to see how Rangers are punished for spamming. It's not exactly that hard to hoard large amounts of ammo.
Also, the whole Mana Sickness thing can be avoided by carefully rationing your mana and picking up Mana Stars (something that the Celestial Magnet and any accessory derived from it can greatly help with).
With Nebula armor and an accessory derived from the Celestial Magnet, if you're chugging Mana Potions, you're doing something seriously wrong.
 
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