Weapons & Equip Summoner Revamped

I got a guess major idea for Summoner...

When it comes to the summoner, I find there is no real good options for it. Infact. I love the class being very great for builder / fisher style players.... Then the wall happens to it in combat solo-game. I had ideas to fix the progression for the summoner

  1. Pre-Hardmode Fixes
I find what would make Summoner an actually good class for pre-hardmode.
For the summon selection would be

  1. Make the finch staff +1 damage or slightly more aggressive AI like the Deadly Sphere and less like enchanted -5 defense daggers ( I can't think of it at the top of my head )​
  2. Please example allow for a pre - boss armor like example. Making it crafted with gems in the same sense as the mage, but it being Robe + 10 Mushrooms + 40 Glowing Mushrooms.
    1. Armor Stat being: 1+ Minion Capacity, 10%+ minion damage, 10 defense total, Stat Bonus being inflict poison damage for all minions​
  3. 3. Including buff the Leather Whip by turning the knockback from 0.5 to a straight 2... As I found it by Early Pre-Hardmode you will just automatically go to the Zoologist it is obsolete. Including making it more of a defensive option to fill as a good upclose option to avoid being attacked. As it 80 entries in the beastery. LIKE SERIOUSLY?
  4. Add a pre-hardmode Crismon/Corrupt whips... As I find that the range, mage, and even melee gets an upgrade for fighting the bosses, but what does the summon get? Nothing out of it. Idea for it....
    1. Unholy Whip being an upgrade to the Snapthorn. Stats being: Range 12, Use Time: 25Damage 30, Special Auto Swing with tag damage of +3 Use Time: 25 ( to fit in with speed of most Demonite Gear ) , Knockback 2. Crafted with the same amount of demonite and scales as the swords. Being basically the only whip to auto swing,
    2. Intenstraggle ( Intestine Straggle) being crismon varient to the Unholy Whip Stats Being: Range 15, ( Inflicts Bleeding Debuff via 5 damage like Tizona once did ), Use Time 40 ( making it a slower weapon like the Butcher is also the name Intestine and Straggle meaning lags behind not being a DPS but more like defensive usage of it )
  5. Hornet Staff needs buffed, main corporate that I say kills this weapon I find is underpowered and straight up worthless post-queen bee. Mainly to fix it would be going from 9 minion damage to 13-16 damage. Because honestly. This weapon is only good for... Maybe fishing when enemies are trying to attack you in pre-hardmode.
  6. Buff the Vampire Frog, Why am I calling for a buff for this item? The rarity it nets you is wasted potential during early game. Like it's only obtained during a blood moon, a good rare weapon done right would be Sanguine or even the Blade Staff. In the sense of they are low drop items, but you get a ton of dps out of them or versatility. For what can make Vampire Frog desirable would be from an 8 damage to 20. Why I would say 20 would be good as most of the actual item rarity would balance it. As this is a ground based summon, it would be great for dungeon exploration and being a better weapon for it. While bosses the rarity could either make the weapon a must have and worth fishing for. If can't buff it through damage, make it a regenerative summon that increases your life region the more summons of it you have. Via it hits an enemy, it you get some of its health. Isn't it a vampire after all?
  7. Can someone please Crismon Rod as a summon weapon, what type? Yes this maybe controversial, but it to me should be a Sentry it already only allows for one Sentry To fit as a Sentry it should be like 14 damage
  8. Sentry weapons outside of Old Ones Army FOR PREHARDMODE
    1. Maggot Sentry being basically a 24 damage Area of Effect post Crismon/Corruption To where it spits out maggots crafted with crimtane/demonite + the shadowscale/equialivent. Plus it would finally give a reason for summoners to actually use ( if sounds OP for prehardmode I am wanting a buffing of that weapon too )​
    2. Hornet's Nest being 10 damage but being a DPS weapon that spits out bees like beenades....​
    3. Slimetry being 5 damage, but the debuff being given by the sentry that slows down enemies and serving as first sentry for a summoner. Nothing too broken at all. It requires four shots to even be noticable on bosses​
    4. Demon't ( Demon Turret ) which is like an upgraded version of the Flame Burst Rod, but with 10 extra damage, before the hard mode variety.​
  9. New Pre-hardmode Staffs
    1. Worm Staff, the AI being a worm and ground based. Being a 5 damage weapon crafted with 10 worms, 15 copper/15 tin, craft on an anvil of lead or iron. This to serve as the first craftable and even a material for later staffs. To make it a viable weapon for starters it is more focused than the finch​
    2. Enchanted Worm Staff, a much improved version of the worm staff starters it going to 10 damage. The AI targets way more from semi-focused to aggressive and goes for enemies behind walls, but has no cling that makes the spider staff so effective.... crafted via Worm Staff​
    3. Eater Of Worms Staff ( is basically the same worm, but with a eater of world's look but joke name ) Which does 12 damage, but is stuck to ground and can use platforms like the others. Though it can vile spit like eater of worlds​
    4. Veiny Worm Staff basically the same as the Eater of Worm Staff, but does 15 damage, with a side of confusion instead of vile​

2. The Turret sub-Class
  1. Mainly this being a more defensive version of the main Summoner. Like Rangers having Arrows vs. Bullets, Yoyo-ers vs. Mainly Swords...
  2. What can of role can it serve for a summoner? Instead of being a DPS machine like what I may just simply call " the minioner ". It is designed with more tanky play style in mind that focuses on a central area when fighting all enemies. While all other classes either purely tank and rush at, dodge attacks +3 ( this is a direct punch at Range, Mages, and the minioner )... This class on average has 10+ defense being closer to a mage or even a ranger than the main summoner in that department, but does less damage on average. Including is a great support for a range characters or desperately needing a higher defense stat but have to exchange mobility of attacks for it.
  3. They can increase the damage of minion weapons, but don't carry the same capacity as the minioner.
  4. The role they can do in a boss fight is use longer lasting debuffs to help a friend out, be a target like the melee user for a mage user, heavier attacks towards main monsters and bosses
  5. Their Armors are sentry focused in carrying capacity of sentries instead of minion damage primarly or just general summon. It is sentry capacity. Basically more focused on more on the sentry. Though the only name differences in some armors would be.
    1. Bee Armor for Minions being named Queen Bee Armor but the Turret version being called Drone Armor. Or simply renamed headgear being Drone Mask ( Sentry version ), or Queen Bee Helmet ( Minion )
  6. Basically the role of a sentry summoner is being a heavier support that can take more hits for friends, similar to the main summoner but less offense and more defensive
  7. The weapons for hardmode being the main focus being
    1. Fly Cane an upgrade directly after the maggot turret one, except does extra DPS with aerial homing. Damage being 35, but doesn't do DPS as effective
    2. Spectral Portal being a combination of Lightning Aura and Explosive Trap tavern keeper items, but does 70. Which is crafted with the Spectre Bar with 50 souls of night, and 10 souls of might. The damage being contact, but does 70. The heavy downside, it is has be ran into. As it is slightly around the same time the
    3. Bloody Cloud ( the crafting of the Materials of Nimbus, Crismon Rod, 10 Souls of Night) it does 30 damage, but sentry output being three mini sentries and can only aim downwards, but does a debuff of bleeding ( 5 damage per second and no regeneration on bosses and enemies ) Including has high DPS below the cloud
    4. Anything you guys can think up?
3. Two Support Items for Multiplayer

  1. The Sentry Whistle and Minion Whistle? How do these whistles work? Well when you whistle, the player you click on or what your mouse is closest near will have your minions or sentries immediately go near the player to help fight near them
    1. The idea of these are simple quality of life changes to help a friend out when doing anything from fighting a boss or they're fishing for items. Though they can reject this buff being called " Summoner's Support "
4. Debuffing Availability
  1. One major flaw I found with the summoner is that. The summoner can never take advantage of most of debuffs most classes can offer. Like Melee users can use Flasks to make their blades debuff, Rangers got different bullets and arrows, mages got their own tools magic weapons like Cursed Flame and Golden shower. What does the summoner got? Let's see... Snapthorn with a venom debuff, and on fire... Most classes can use Ichor or Cursed flame buffs
  2. What I suggest for a light fix is whips can also use flasks like melee weapons.
  3. New Weapons with debuff properties
    1. Stained Sticker ( sentry summon ) That shoots ichor streams at bosses that do piercing damage doing the ichor debuff and 30 damage.
    2. Spider Sentry, but buffed up ( going from a 26 damage to 34 ) Mainly making it a better summon to have on the battlefield.
    3. One Eyed Willy Staff ( Yes I had to make another joke title like how the Golden Shower has its own ) AI controlled minion, but damage being 30 damage, but an apply ichor debuff with additional goes through water with more aggression for enemies through walls. A direct upgrade from the veiny worm but can use the corrupt variant staff. 30 souls of night, 20 ichor.
    4. Cursed Worm Staff it does 40 damage but can apply the cursed flame debuff with the addition of swimming through water and increased aggression ... Same crafting recipe except with 20 cursed flame
    5. Cerebus Staff a weapon that is dropped from Hardmode Wolves in a Corrupt Ice Biome with a low drop rate similar. 37 Damage base. The gimmick around this minion is.... Well 1/3 chance of inflicting cursed flame as a fireball, the farther away from you it is the it will only be a base of 37 but hyper agressive towards far away enemies, but if target is closer it increases in damage with 1/3 chance of bleeding via bite which damages 5 per damage.... Think of it as a hybrid between Pygmy Staff and Pirate Staff. Pgymy with some range, but pirate as it is on average close range and ground based
    6. Chupacabra Staff which is the Crismon version of the Cerebus Staff except the idea or enemy to drop it. I had the idea of a jackal for the desert biome to drop it, if it is in the crismon variant.... It does 30 base damage, but have the same gimmick in the sense of being closer higher damage, farther base damage, but can inflict the ichor debuff.
    7. Hammer Staff it's a just a retooled Blade Staff, but does 7, but gains one extra ability being cursed flames. It serves as a debuffing to help fight bosses. It still ignores 25 defense.
    8. Shining Staff (Crismon version of the hammer staff but 5 damage, but inflicts ichor debuff and ignores 25 defense. Is this designed to obsolete the Blade Staff? No, instead Blade Staff becomes more of an upgrade tool, while these two are just minions that can inflict the damage
    9. Poisoned Dagger Staff... Blade staff kind of needs a late game upgrade, I find the best way it should get upgraded. This is a side upgrade if want to inflict venom damage and increase damage from the measly 6 to 20 requiring chlorophye the make it venomous and easier to craft
    10. Troll Staff 30 Damage, work similarly to the Pygmy staff but themed around the goblin army and if summon enough they will have a minion that inflicts shadow flame, dropped by goblin summoner.
5. New or redesigned weapons
  1. True Blade Staff... Blade staff kind of needs a late game upgrade, I find the best way it should get upgraded. With an item like Broken Hero Sword, instead of it doing the measly 6 damage + ignores 25 defense. It does 16, but ignores 25 defense. The "broken staff " material is an upgradable for True Blade Staff
  2. Turn the Nimbus Staff into a Sentry Summon Weapon
  3. Earth weapon from golem also being a summon weapon also
  4. ShadowFlame Whip ( drops from Goblin Summoners ) which serves a role similar to the DurenDale and Coolwhip, basically the intermediate weapon between these two.
6. Sorry if the rest of this seems lazy, I end up putting way too much time on this one post.... Think of new ideas. I just find the summoner needs more variety and should be able to have new gear to help smooth out the progression.
 
You make some valid points and I agree with most of what you have written. The problem with the Summoner items is the same problem with half the items in the game. By the time you actually are able to get it it's worthless. Take for example the Vampire Frog. Now unless you are a 2000 year old vampire who doesn't need any more money you probably won't want to invest the time into getting that thing with having inferior gear. The gear that is required to get it in any reasonable amount of time is by far stronger than the reward itself. Sooooo many items in the game like this. I was hoping that the item rebalance was going to address these things but sadly it fell short by a long shot. I am beginning to feel as though the Developers do not play on Expert/Master mode where many of these issues become far more apparent.

Now to the solutions:

1 - Good call on the Crimson Rod/Nimbus staff. When playing as a summoner I use these as extra buffers to get more power. Although I think they should not be officially minions as that would effectively -1 the total number of minions that you can have.

2 - Increasing the overall damage individually for each item may not be the best solution. This will in essence make all classes more powerful. A better bet would be to increase the bonuses of summoner armor so as to present the player with a choice: Powerful Summons or Better Defense/Attack? Additional armor that is useful earlier on would be extremely helpful for summoners.

3 - AI. Many summons just suck. They do. Half the time they stand around and do nothing. I've noticed that this seems to crop up more for some summons when they have a tendency to float near your head, and your head is close to walls. They become blind. I tend to stick to Imps, Spiders, Deadly Spheres, UFOs, and most minions. Why? Because nothing is worse than dying when you have 6+ summons sitting around watching you getting eaten alive. LOS or something needs to be improved for many summons.

Speaking of Minions, I don't think they need any changes at all. They work perfectly fine. May not be the best options for Bosses but for invasions I'll take them over many weapons any day of the week.

DPS = This stat is also highly deceptive, especially when using accessories/training dummy. The dummy does not take into account piercing or armor ratings. I like MPS(Monsters per second) and test this out in live battle in live scenarios. It gives you a much better idea of a weapon's effectiveness.
 
You make some valid points and I agree with most of what you have written. The problem with the Summoner items is the same problem with half the items in the game. By the time you actually are able to get it it's worthless. Take for example the Vampire Frog. Now unless you are a 2000 year old vampire who doesn't need any more money you probably won't want to invest the time into getting that thing with having inferior gear. The gear that is required to get it in any reasonable amount of time is by far stronger than the reward itself. Sooooo many items in the game like this. I was hoping that the item rebalance was going to address these things but sadly it fell short by a long shot. I am beginning to feel as though the Developers do not play on Expert/Master mode where many of these issues become far more apparent.

Now to the solutions:

1 - Good call on the Crimson Rod/Nimbus staff. When playing as a summoner I use these as extra buffers to get more power. Although I think they should not be officially minions as that would effectively -1 the total number of minions that you can have.

2 - Increasing the overall damage individually for each item may not be the best solution. This will in essence make all classes more powerful. A better bet would be to increase the bonuses of summoner armor so as to present the player with a choice: Powerful Summons or Better Defense/Attack? Additional armor that is useful earlier on would be extremely helpful for summoners.

3 - AI. Many summons just suck. They do. Half the time they stand around and do nothing. I've noticed that this seems to crop up more for some summons when they have a tendency to float near your head, and your head is close to walls. They become blind. I tend to stick to Imps, Spiders, Deadly Spheres, UFOs, and most minions. Why? Because nothing is worse than dying when you have 6+ summons sitting around watching you getting eaten alive. LOS or something needs to be improved for many summons.

Speaking of Minions, I don't think they need any changes at all. They work perfectly fine. May not be the best options for Bosses but for invasions I'll take them over many weapons any day of the week.

DPS = This stat is also highly deceptive, especially when using accessories/training dummy. The dummy does not take into account piercing or armor ratings. I like MPS(Monsters per second) and test this out in live battle in live scenarios. It gives you a much better idea of a weapon's effectiveness.
"I am beginning to feel as though the Developers do not play on Expert/Master mode where many of these issues become far more apparent."

Unfortunately, I agree :<
 
You make some valid points and I agree with most of what you have written. The problem with the Summoner items is the same problem with half the items in the game. By the time you actually are able to get it it's worthless. Take for example the Vampire Frog. Now unless you are a 2000 year old vampire who doesn't need any more money you probably won't want to invest the time into getting that thing with having inferior gear. The gear that is required to get it in any reasonable amount of time is by far stronger than the reward itself. Sooooo many items in the game like this. I was hoping that the item rebalance was going to address these things but sadly it fell short by a long shot. I am beginning to feel as though the Developers do not play on Expert/Master mode where many of these issues become far more apparent.

Now to the solutions:

1 - Good call on the Crimson Rod/Nimbus staff. When playing as a summoner I use these as extra buffers to get more power. Although I think they should not be officially minions as that would effectively -1 the total number of minions that you can have.

2 - Increasing the overall damage individually for each item may not be the best solution. This will in essence make all classes more powerful. A better bet would be to increase the bonuses of summoner armor so as to present the player with a choice: Powerful Summons or Better Defense/Attack? Additional armor that is useful earlier on would be extremely helpful for summoners.

3 - AI. Many summons just suck. They do. Half the time they stand around and do nothing. I've noticed that this seems to crop up more for some summons when they have a tendency to float near your head, and your head is close to walls. They become blind. I tend to stick to Imps, Spiders, Deadly Spheres, UFOs, and most minions. Why? Because nothing is worse than dying when you have 6+ summons sitting around watching you getting eaten alive. LOS or something needs to be improved for many summons.

Speaking of Minions, I don't think they need any changes at all. They work perfectly fine. May not be the best options for Bosses but for invasions I'll take them over many weapons any day of the week.

DPS = This stat is also highly deceptive, especially when using accessories/training dummy. The dummy does not take into account piercing or armor ratings. I like MPS(Monsters per second) and test this out in live battle in live scenarios. It gives you a much better idea of a weapon's effectiveness.
To me, I find a good portion suck and I pay on master mode which makes it even worse.... Where the Imp AI becomes FULL :red:... No offense, but Imp's AI is trash when fishing. Hornet Staff lacks the piercing and which makes it unavailable to fight skeletron... Incuding typically I kill eater of worlds then immediately go to underworld for hellstone, then mine up all of the hellstone just to craft myself the items associated with hellstone then kill skeletron.... I find mysef there needs to be a summon for underground as. As it is more than annoying where half of the summons are stuck to the bloody air and can't aim worth a crap in the underground... The damage increases is it just to make them more viable.... The Optic Staff is slowly losing its usefulness due to bad AI and doesn't concentrate on enemies. Whille Sanguine's Pattern may seem to be bad it is still more reliable.
 
You make some valid points and I agree with most of what you have written. The problem with the Summoner items is the same problem with half the items in the game. By the time you actually are able to get it it's worthless. Take for example the Vampire Frog. Now unless you are a 2000 year old vampire who doesn't need any more money you probably won't want to invest the time into getting that thing with having inferior gear. The gear that is required to get it in any reasonable amount of time is by far stronger than the reward itself. Sooooo many items in the game like this. I was hoping that the item rebalance was going to address these things but sadly it fell short by a long shot. I am beginning to feel as though the Developers do not play on Expert/Master mode where many of these issues become far more apparent.

Now to the solutions:

1 - Good call on the Crimson Rod/Nimbus staff. When playing as a summoner I use these as extra buffers to get more power. Although I think they should not be officially minions as that would effectively -1 the total number of minions that you can have.

2 - Increasing the overall damage individually for each item may not be the best solution. This will in essence make all classes more powerful. A better bet would be to increase the bonuses of summoner armor so as to present the player with a choice: Powerful Summons or Better Defense/Attack? Additional armor that is useful earlier on would be extremely helpful for summoners.

3 - AI. Many summons just suck. They do. Half the time they stand around and do nothing. I've noticed that this seems to crop up more for some summons when they have a tendency to float near your head, and your head is close to walls. They become blind. I tend to stick to Imps, Spiders, Deadly Spheres, UFOs, and most minions. Why? Because nothing is worse than dying when you have 6+ summons sitting around watching you getting eaten alive. LOS or something needs to be improved for many summons.

Speaking of Minions, I don't think they need any changes at all. They work perfectly fine. May not be the best options for Bosses but for invasions I'll take them over many weapons any day of the week.

DPS = This stat is also highly deceptive, especially when using accessories/training dummy. The dummy does not take into account piercing or armor ratings. I like MPS(Monsters per second) and test this out in live battle in live scenarios. It gives you a much better idea of a weapon's effectiveness.
The reason why I did focus on the DPS due to that's coming from me who plays on Mastermode. Damage per second is the only way to even fight most of the night time EXCLUSIVE bosses. I find myself just finding it more than an issue when fighting in early game for mastermode. I am used to resulting to gravitational potions, kind of adopting the same mentalities as Ningishi. I find damage increases would be a general way to improve the actual summoner class. What I mean by Ningishi mentalities. Looking at it simply doesn't have the same speed of attacks or brute force. So mostly focused on mobility rather than defense or damage output. Just forced into no more playing normal progression as most of the bosses for Summoner can straight up be way easier whie others way harder. Example I remember during expert mode years ago being Summoner completely can wreck Plantera compared to the Destoryer. That should tell your something is off when a class doesn't smoothly follow the same rules as others.
Including it is a class forced to use other class weapons.
 
I think we both want the same thing. The Summoner class being playable like the other main three throughout the game . Although I will admit it's downfalls have caused me to be more creative and innovative which has lead to some good ideas.

The DPS is more of a general statement, prolly should have made another thread with it. I get the impression that it is the Gold Standard for deciding what is best when it can be misleading. It does mean something and is a good foundation but just because weapon X has the highest DPS doesn't mean it is the best against monster A. I'll leave it at that so we can stay on topic.
 
Very true we want both the same thing and want to stick to playing with it through out the whole entire adventure. I find DPS maybe general statement, but it's kind of the only way to measure a summoner compared to all other classes being able to land critical hits while sighing in summoner. The Monsters I find a problem for Summoners is mainly Mini-Bosses. It sometimes feels like Mini-bosses hit harder or get better aiming than the main bosses themselves. Which give way more trouble than they should.
 
I thought we're over it for a while now. Everyone who plays a summoner for an extended period sees how strong the summoner is.
Every single suggestion in OP makes the summoner insanely imbalanced and makes other setups obsolete at suggested progression steps.
Buffing or making new whips breaks the balance and anyone who wants them buffed never addresses their stats. The insanely, huge, giga tag damage boost.

Basically, anyone who finds a summoner weak is either bad at summoner or not good at summoner. It is not the bad class, it is you struggling at a boss or a biome. Every Youtuber and their grandma at this point played a summoner in master mode and showed the world how strong the summoner is.

And stop with the Ichor stuff. JUST. USE. ANY. ICHOR. YOU. HAVE. NOONE. FORCES. YOU. NOT. TO. USE. ICHOR.

It is just quantity of useless and unneeded things over quality. And stat-boosting where none is needed.

What is the Frog Staff argument? You need a rod, a small box out of 13 wood, bait and nothing more. You get it on the first or second Blood Moon without any effort, and then you have a really strong summon.
Noone ever compares the entire damage output of a summoner to that of other classes. Noone ever takes into account how strong the Bee armor is. 23% damage increase? Which other pre-hardmode armor does that? None.
The fact that you run 5 summons. The fact that you also have a whip or any other weapon you want. The fact that you have summon tag damage. This is ignored 100% of these threads and all people want is more damage on redundant summoner weapons.
 
I thought we're over it for a while now. Everyone who plays a summoner for an extended period sees how strong the summoner is.
Every single suggestion in OP makes the summoner insanely imbalanced and makes other setups obsolete at suggested progression steps.
Buffing or making new whips breaks the balance and anyone who wants them buffed never addresses their stats. The insanely, huge, giga tag damage boost.

Basically, anyone who finds a summoner weak is either bad at summoner or not good at summoner. It is not the bad class, it is you struggling at a boss or a biome. Every Youtuber and their grandma at this point played a summoner in master mode and showed the world how strong the summoner is.

And stop with the Ichor stuff. JUST. USE. ANY. ICHOR. YOU. HAVE. NOONE. FORCES. YOU. NOT. TO. USE. ICHOR.

It is just quantity of useless and unneeded things over quality. And stat-boosting where none is needed.

What is the Frog Staff argument? You need a rod, a small box out of 13 wood, bait and nothing more. You get it on the first or second Blood Moon without any effort, and then you have a really strong summon.
Noone ever compares the entire damage output of a summoner to that of other classes. Noone ever takes into account how strong the Bee armor is. 23% damage increase? Which other pre-hardmode armor does that? None.
The fact that you run 5 summons. The fact that you also have a whip or any other weapon you want. The fact that you have summon tag damage. This is ignored 100% of these threads and all people want is more damage on redundant summoner weapons.

Can we stick to replies based on facts?

I seriously doubt your skills as a summoner based on:

- Frog Staff: Really strong summon? You mean classic mode or Master mode? It's about as good as a slime staff or hornet staff in Master Mode.
- Bee Armor: Strong? Seriously? Base on a percentile number alone? What is 23% of 9? Big bonus there huh?

The main discussion is not that Summoners can be the most powerful. At a certain point in Hardmode this is established as a fact. The problem is the usefulness of the Summoner up until Hardmode, which has always been lacking in a pure class sense. Since posters like me, according to you, are weak summoners and you must be the opposite, could you explain to me using summons only how you:

- Defeat the Queen Bee?
- Obtain the Mighty Frog Staff?

I'm interested in hearing this..
 
You make some valid points and I agree with most of what you have written. The problem with the Summoner items is the same problem with half the items in the game. By the time you actually are able to get it it's worthless. Take for example the Vampire Frog. Now unless you are a 2000 year old vampire who doesn't need any more money you probably won't want to invest the time into getting that thing with having inferior gear. The gear that is required to get it in any reasonable amount of time is by far stronger than the reward itself. Sooooo many items in the game like this. I was hoping that the item rebalance was going to address these things but sadly it fell short by a long shot. I am beginning to feel as though the Developers do not play on Expert/Master mode where many of these issues become far more apparent.

Now to the solutions:

1 - Good call on the Crimson Rod/Nimbus staff. When playing as a summoner I use these as extra buffers to get more power. Although I think they should not be officially minions as that would effectively -1 the total number of minions that you can have.

2 - Increasing the overall damage individually for each item may not be the best solution. This will in essence make all classes more powerful. A better bet would be to increase the bonuses of summoner armor so as to present the player with a choice: Powerful Summons or Better Defense/Attack? Additional armor that is useful earlier on would be extremely helpful for summoners.

3 - AI. Many summons just suck. They do. Half the time they stand around and do nothing. I've noticed that this seems to crop up more for some summons when they have a tendency to float near your head, and your head is close to walls. They become blind. I tend to stick to Imps, Spiders, Deadly Spheres, UFOs, and most minions. Why? Because nothing is worse than dying when you have 6+ summons sitting around watching you getting eaten alive. LOS or something needs to be improved for many summons.

Speaking of Minions, I don't think they need any changes at all. They work perfectly fine. May not be the best options for Bosses but for invasions I'll take them over many weapons any day of the week.

DPS = This stat is also highly deceptive, especially when using accessories/training dummy. The dummy does not take into account piercing or armor ratings. I like MPS(Monsters per second) and test this out in live battle in live scenarios. It gives you a much better idea of a weapon's effectiveness.
Yeah For that matter I think a good way to distinguish true summoners from other classes without outright changing the armors to be more stat inflated would be to have summons scale based on the number of available summons both minions and sentries. This would allow other classes to use base summons while still supporting a full summoner or varying degrees of hybrid summoners and allowing multiple minion types to be deployed at once allowing full summoners to mix and match.

On a related note while Summoner needs a way to access Ichor I don't think a minion or sentry are the best way to implement this. Mechanically Ichor should probably be on a whip so that it can't be just another addition to other classes. From discussion elsewhere on Reddit there seems to be support for the concept of an ichor whip Crimson Mimic Drop. The blade staff could teen be made a Hallowed Mimic drop (or an additional summon focused hallow item could be added) with a similar addition for Corruption perhaps either a cursed inferno whip a sentry or minion.
And if mage weapons are converted to summon it would probably be wise to add a replacement. Perhaps a Blood Scepter which squirts blood at foes as a downgraded aqua scepter like weapon? To counter balance that maybe corruption could get a Eater based Shadow orb drop?
 
Yeah For that matter I think a good way to distinguish true summoners from other classes without outright changing the armors to be more stat inflated would be to have summons scale based on the number of available summons both minions and sentries. This would allow other classes to use base summons while still supporting a full summoner or varying degrees of hybrid summoners and allowing multiple minion types to be deployed at once allowing full summoners to mix and match.

On a related note while Summoner needs a way to access Ichor I don't think a minion or sentry are the best way to implement this. Mechanically Ichor should probably be on a whip so that it can't be just another addition to other classes. From discussion elsewhere on Reddit there seems to be support for the concept of an ichor whip Crimson Mimic Drop. The blade staff could teen be made a Hallowed Mimic drop (or an additional summon focused hallow item could be added) with a similar addition for Corruption perhaps either a cursed inferno whip a sentry or minion.
And if mage weapons are converted to summon it would probably be wise to add a replacement. Perhaps a Blood Scepter which squirts blood at foes as a downgraded aqua scepter like weapon? To counter balance that maybe corruption could get a Eater based Shadow orb drop?
I find that a summoner should be able to have Ichor / Cursed Flame summons and whips or even sentries would be kind of fair. As melee users got multiple methods of putting on ichor debuff or via flask or their respective swords. Mages use it directly via weapons which isn't bad... Rangers also got access to the debuffs through arrows or bullets. I find summoner is kind of a class that is forced as a support class for all others, which is good and bad.... Good when playing multiplayer, but bad in single player.
 
Can we stick to replies based on facts?

I seriously doubt your skills as a summoner based on:

- Frog Staff: Really strong summon? You mean classic mode or Master mode? It's about as good as a slime staff or hornet staff in Master Mode.
- Bee Armor: Strong? Seriously? Base on a percentile number alone? What is 23% of 9? Big bonus there huh?

The main discussion is not that Summoners can be the most powerful. At a certain point in Hardmode this is established as a fact. The problem is the usefulness of the Summoner up until Hardmode, which has always been lacking in a pure class sense. Since posters like me, according to you, are weak summoners and you must be the opposite, could you explain to me using summons only how you:

- Defeat the Queen Bee?
- Obtain the Mighty Frog Staff?

I'm interested in hearing this..
Sure we can go on facts if you wish, makes it easier for me.
It deals more damage than both you mentioned and have a knockback of 5 compared to 2 of Slime and Hornet. Vampire Frog staff is easily acquireable in your first Blood Moon. I got all the drops from Mermen and the flying things in the first Moon.
I played both master mode and master mode for the worthy as a summoner on every boss fight.
Do not ingore all the bonuses you have.
23% damage from the armor and 18% from Ruthless is 16 damage x 5. 80 Damage from summons alone. Plus whip. 23 damage per hit. If your frogs and you focus on one enemy it is over 100 damage for 1 hit across all damage sources.
Now name me one weapon from any other class that deals 108 damage per attack. And no, Zapinator is not a valid answer.

I can explain you very well how you beat the Queen Bee or get thr Frog staff.
Use. A. Different. Weapon. It. Is. Insanely. Simple.
Or, if you, for some reason die in real life if you do it and you force yourself into the really stupid idea of "I cannot attack enemy if I do not deal summoner damage", go watch Ningishu and how she did it.
 
Sure we can go on facts if you wish, makes it easier for me.
It deals more damage than both you mentioned and have a knockback of 5 compared to 2 of Slime and Hornet. Vampire Frog staff is easily acquireable in your first Blood Moon. I got all the drops from Mermen and the flying things in the first Moon.
I played both master mode and master mode for the worthy as a summoner on every boss fight.
Do not ingore all the bonuses you have.
23% damage from the armor and 18% from Ruthless is 16 damage x 5. 80 Damage from summons alone. Plus whip. 23 damage per hit. If your frogs and you focus on one enemy it is over 100 damage for 1 hit across all damage sources.
Now name me one weapon from any other class that deals 108 damage per attack. And no, Zapinator is not a valid answer.

I can explain you very well how you beat the Queen Bee or get thr Frog staff.
Use. A. Different. Weapon. It. Is. Insanely. Simple.
Or, if you, for some reason die in real life if you do it and you force yourself into the really stupid idea of "I cannot attack enemy if I do not deal summoner damage", go watch Ningishu and how she did it.

You fell right into that one.

Your first point: So your method is based off luck? So far (and I haven't even been trying to farm) I am about 2 Blood Moon Items for about 30 or so Eyes/Merman. We all know how 'luck' in Terraria can hit us and force us to kill something 200 times for a %10 drop rate. Refer to my earlier post on time and reasonable time frames to get things. Yes, I even use torches/gnomes to increase my drop chances.

Second point: Bee Armor gives you 3 minions. The other +2 is from potions and the Bewitching Table. Yet again let's refer back to by the time you get this this is not really special. I'm going to refrain from the concept of whips. Just am. That's a debate for an entire thread of it's own.

Third point: Yet again, the conversation is about playing the summoner just as you would other classes, from the beginning. Mages were improved and take slightly longer than Melee/Range but is much earlier on. Summoner? Same problems. The beef people have is that they don't want to play other classes or hybrids from the beginning.

So far from what I've been seeing in 1.4, aside from the Zenith many of the best weapons are really the same as before. Some are even stronger now. No one seems to talk about them though. Why? Because they function. There's nothing to complain about.
 
I do attack enemies with other types of weapons, but there isn't much damage increases for it. Infact find it more of an issue of the summoner. Being the only class having to use weapons outside just to tollerate the game while mage, range, and melee users don't need to. The only time they do is for Nimbus Rod, Golden Shower, or even straight up now in 1.4 get the summoner's terraprisma, though at one point used to go for stardust dragon staff... I remember going to hellstone equipment before got to summon armor. Which kind of shows Terraria's problem in pre-hardmode. I can excuse certain equipment like Forbidden Armor as. There is a purpose to using outside class weapons....

My luck in blood moon is probally either really trash, despite already had twenty and only get two enemies to turn up in my fishing for vampire frog 4.17% Drop rate. While everything else is wooden, iron, and golden crates. It's not even worth time time to go after the staff after getting imp. Does it make sense to have a ground staff that does less damage than the flying summon staff? Including flying summons are more reliable outside of Arenas. The time it takes to get vampire
Sure we can go on facts if you wish, makes it easier for me.
It deals more damage than both you mentioned and have a knockback of 5 compared to 2 of Slime and Hornet. Vampire Frog staff is easily acquireable in your first Blood Moon. I got all the drops from Mermen and the flying things in the first Moon.
I played both master mode and master mode for the worthy as a summoner on every boss fight.
Do not ingore all the bonuses you have.
23% damage from the armor and 18% from Ruthless is 16 damage x 5. 80 Damage from summons alone. Plus whip. 23 damage per hit. If your frogs and you focus on one enemy it is over 100 damage for 1 hit across all damage sources.
Now name me one weapon from any other class that deals 108 damage per attack. And no, Zapinator is not a valid answer.

I can explain you very well how you beat the Queen Bee or get thr Frog staff.
Use. A. Different. Weapon. It. Is. Insanely. Simple.
Or, if you, for some reason die in real life if you do it and you force yourself into the really stupid idea of "I cannot attack enemy if I do not deal summoner damage", go watch Ningishu and how she did it.

I do use all of the bonuses.
I do attack enemies with other types of weapons, but there isn't much damage increases for it. In fact find it more of an issue of the summoner. Being the only class having to use weapons outside just to tollerate the game while mage, range, and melee users don't need to. The only time they do is for Nimbus Rod, Golden Shower, or even straight up now in 1.4 get the summoner's terraprisma, though at one point used to go for stardust dragon staff... I remember going to hellstone equipment before got to summon armor. Which kind of shows Terraria's problem in pre-hardmode. I can excuse certain equipment like Forbidden Armor as. There is a purpose to using outside class weapons.... Atleast you do gain way more. While all other summoner armors gain literally nothing.

It shows you a major problem with a class if a certain class already has per-specializations to begin with their weapons. Infact the summon weapon type is 100% heavy special as. Most all other can be fairly used well, but okay. It helps to get new armors with them to make them beyond powerful, while summoner weapons act very differently from main weapons due to it's depedent on your equipment to actually get any real benefits out of. Prehardmode minishark can be equipped with anyone and be useful, but it helps to get the armor. Waterbolt is is versatile with piercing and bounces off of walls, but benefits with armor. The material set of prehardmode swords being Grass, Nights Edge, and Hellstone sword. They can be crafted and or even better late game... This issue has became worse thanks to Zenith. Yet how much usefulness can you get out of an Imp in prehardmode doing a 17 damage with no bonuses or even bewitch table?
The summoner armor and weapons are much more linked than most weapons in terraria.

My luck in blood moon is probably either really trash, despite already had twenty and only get two enemies to turn up in my fishing for vampire frog 4.17% Drop rate. While everything else is wooden, iron, and golden crates. It's not even worth time time to go after the staff after getting imp. Does it make sense to have a ground staff that does less damage than the flying summon staff? Including flying summons are more reliable outside of Arenas. The time it takes to get vampire frog doesn't net any improvements. This is why the Sanguine staff is so well liked. It's RNG justifies the blood moon times. I admitly don't use luck, because I honestly find the luck mechanic worthless in a combat context when maining a Summon class.

No need to be rude on the end >=X.

Summoner really needs more equipment and craftable weapons. Because mages got plenty of RNG and craftable weapons, Rangers got plenty of craftable gear, and even melee users being the norm. Summoner has SIX craftable minions, one sentry craftable or ultra rare drops. Can you explain does grinding session for grinding session sound like fun when your first summons got a 0.01% ( looking at staff ) and also 4.17% chance? While other classes are basically in the same tier not having to work their butts off for such low drop rates. Their low drop rates can't even justify themselves... While items like Lucky Coin + Discount Card make the game easier or the Rod of Discord 0.2% spawn rate can be excused. The biome keys aren't essential, but actually justify their rewards. Though can be increased with water candles and luck in the 1.4 update. I do not mind grinding, but there isn't a point to getting two staffs rare as hell items in prehardmode if there is two weapons that outclass it. HELL i could even rub it in the wound by saying that the Tavern Keeper Items can justify themselves as great weapons... Despite being late hardmode.

The summoner feels like a half baked class. It is nice seeing extra gear for summons, but more than half of the RNG is more than against you. While all other classes have good chances of drops or plenty of crafting. While Summoner it feels like a pure chore to play. While three classes have a steady stream of equipement to upgrade through summoner is it is climbing a big mountain while the other classes go on a stroll in the park.... The Risk to Reward Ratio of Summoner isn't balanced at all like at all. If a class is depedent on a lesser version of another classes equipment, you know you kind of messed up a whole entire class.... Ningishi's playthrough kind of shows how RNG inconsistent it is. Though it's positives is that it makes Terraria building actually really fun and worth the time... While other classes it's annoying. I found the AI in Summoner Weapons needs to have more variety, or give a 100% chance of having an item required for progression. The late game atleast guarantees good drops while early and middle part of terraria summoner play through it's tedious. It actually makes fishing tolerable or even great.

Terraria Summoner would be a more fun class if there wasn't so much RNG blocking within it. It's easy to get into Range, Mage, and Melee. While Summoner it is like " Okay I got to get this, make a big farm for one drop at a time " or " I have been slaughtering X monster 5000+ for one item "... The only thing I actually get a kick out of the Summoner Class that I don't have much major incentive to mine out ores.... There isn't much benefit outside of a better pickaxe... Armor is already available to you. While other classes it is swapping armors left and right that don't get much benefit as they are immedately replaced... There would be more people playing summoner if it weren't for RNG galore.
 
You fell right into that one.
Fell into what? Your opinions marked as a fact?
Your first point: So your method is based off luck? So far (and I haven't even been trying to farm) I am about 2 Blood Moon Items for about 30 or so Eyes/Merman. We all know how 'luck' in Terraria can hit us and force us to kill something 200 times for a %10 drop rate. Refer to my earlier post on time and reasonable time frames to get things. Yes, I even use torches/gnomes to increase my drop chances.
Because everything else that drops from monsters in this game is not based on luck. With appropriate preparation, you heavily boost the drop chance. It is trivial and literally every item you farm is based off of luck.
If you want it, go farm Slime Staffs or Finch Staffs instead of the more reliable Frog staff. We could go on and on about RNG, and one with bad experience will :red: about it while someone more lucky will praise it. I see it neutral as I've been on both ends.
Second point: Bee Armor gives you 3 minions. The other +2 is from potions and the Bewitching Table. Yet again let's refer back to by the time you get this this is not really special. I'm going to refrain from the concept of whips. Just am. That's a debate for an entire thread of it's own.
Bee armor gives you 2 minions. And you saying it is nothing special in pre-hardmode is just your opinion. having 5 summons after beating only 2 bosses of pre-hardmode is something special. The table and potions are your core till the endgame.
Refrain from the concept of whips if you want, they are a backup which benefit summons, but people treat them as a weapon they want to play the entire game with. Whips aren't that.
99% of people don't even know you can tag an enemy with your staff and complain that it is too risky to whip bosses to tag them. Yet they deal damage, and not too little if combined with summons.
Third point: Yet again, the conversation is about playing the summoner just as you would other classes, from the beginning. Mages were improved and take slightly longer than Melee/Range but is much earlier on. Summoner? Same problems. The beef people have is that they don't want to play other classes or hybrids from the beginning.
Question: Why should the game be balanced around some weird playstyles people make up and not about factual numbers and possibilities?
Why do people think summoners need an Ichor whip, even though every single summoner can use bows, guns, dart guns, beam sword, boomerangs, yoyos, any other melee weapon and the Golden Shower to inflict the debuff? Why would one class be able to AFK and utilize the debuffs while others have to kill actively?
Just because a small minority in the game feel the need for a challenge? The game should be balanced around actual numbers and facts, not something someone imagines and makes-up.
If people do not want to do it, they simply don't. If they refuse and want to throw off balancing just because their minds tell them to do stupid things, aka not using given items, it is only their personal issue, and not a game imbalance.
So far from what I've been seeing in 1.4, aside from the Zenith many of the best weapons are really the same as before. Some are even stronger now. No one seems to talk about them though. Why? Because they function. There's nothing to complain about.
Like what?
I also want to address your aknowledgement of summoner being strong in hardmode. The hardmode is harder than the pre-hardmode and take up the majority of the game. Why would a devteam focus on a small portion of the game and flesh it out as much as the big boy of the game? Summoner is strong and viable in pre-hardmode, and starts to shine in hardmode. Same as every other class.
Rangers have a crappy 6 damage gun and some wonky bows. Mages have some cool stuff, but are generally weaker in early hardmode due to area limitations or if you don't sequence break.
Melee is the wannabe tank with slightly more armor and the inability to properly fight any boss reliably on master mode.
Summoner definitely got enough love in 1.4 and it was confirmed that the devs won't fill the gaps of summoner items like whips in 1.4.1.
 
Fell into what? Your opinions marked as a fact?

Because everything else that drops from monsters in this game is not based on luck. With appropriate preparation, you heavily boost the drop chance. It is trivial and literally every item you farm is based off of luck.
If you want it, go farm Slime Staffs or Finch Staffs instead of the more reliable Frog staff. We could go on and on about RNG, and one with bad experience will :red: about it while someone more lucky will praise it. I see it neutral as I've been on both ends.

Bee armor gives you 2 minions. And you saying it is nothing special in pre-hardmode is just your opinion. having 5 summons after beating only 2 bosses of pre-hardmode is something special. The table and potions are your core till the endgame.
Refrain from the concept of whips if you want, they are a backup which benefit summons, but people treat them as a weapon they want to play the entire game with. Whips aren't that.
99% of people don't even know you can tag an enemy with your staff and complain that it is too risky to whip bosses to tag them. Yet they deal damage, and not too little if combined with summons.

Question: Why should the game be balanced around some weird playstyles people make up and not about factual numbers and possibilities?
Why do people think summoners need an Ichor whip, even though every single summoner can use bows, guns, dart guns, beam sword, boomerangs, yoyos, any other melee weapon and the Golden Shower to inflict the debuff? Why would one class be able to AFK and utilize the debuffs while others have to kill actively?
Just because a small minority in the game feel the need for a challenge? The game should be balanced around actual numbers and facts, not something someone imagines and makes-up.
If people do not want to do it, they simply don't. If they refuse and want to throw off balancing just because their minds tell them to do stupid things, aka not using given items, it is only their personal issue, and not a game imbalance.

Like what?
I also want to address your aknowledgement of summoner being strong in hardmode. The hardmode is harder than the pre-hardmode and take up the majority of the game. Why would a devteam focus on a small portion of the game and flesh it out as much as the big boy of the game? Summoner is strong and viable in pre-hardmode, and starts to shine in hardmode. Same as every other class.
Rangers have a crappy 6 damage gun and some wonky bows. Mages have some cool stuff, but are generally weaker in early hardmode due to area limitations or if you don't sequence break.
Melee is the wannabe tank with slightly more armor and the inability to properly fight any boss reliably on master mode.
Summoner definitely got enough love in 1.4 and it was confirmed that the devs won't fill the gaps of summoner items like whips in 1.4.1.
I hope you realize that summon tagging was severely nerfed.... Like you are stuck to summons or whips to either get your summons to target or dink around with AI. While in 1.3 you could target an enemy like a boss while using other weapons. Clearly can tell you play as either mage or ranger. Try playing outside that and realize how low damage.

We better not tell you there is something called auto-clickers for AFK..... Would you use a straight up repeater as a main weapon for a mage? Despite gaining no benefits? Summoner is like that but even worse due to RNG issues and the only way to fix the class is modding. Thorium and Calamity fix the class in very different ways. Where in Thorium seems to justify crafting more and more. Which fix the same issue. Including Melee in pre-hardmode has more than enough tanking capabilities. As the gear actually is viable. The mages shine pre-hardmode, early hardmode they have mostly outside enviroment advantages. There is a lack of 100% gameplay from start to end for summoners. Rangers become dodging with auto aim machine DESPITE CAN TANK MORE THAN A MAGE. Mage does hit harder, but do not get abusive with mana. Though there should be attention to balancing all classes They straight up nerfed Stardust at the time was the best weapon, not Zenith is even more broken for a late game weapon.... OR THE MOST BROKEN weapon in Terraria. Debuffing for summoners would be fair via Whip or summons. Summoners feel like a multiplayer class just to avoid competing for gear from 3 different friends playing range, melee, and range. Rather than a good single player experience.
 
I hope you realize that summon tagging was severely nerfed.... Like you are stuck to summons or whips to either get your summons to target or dink around with AI. While in 1.3 you could target an enemy like a boss while using other weapons. Clearly can tell you play as either mage or ranger. Try playing outside that and realize how low damage.
What? This sentence makes 0 sense to me. How was it nerfed? In 1.3 you could right-click with the staff. In 1.4 you can right-click with a staff or whip an enemy. Where is the nerf?
You could not tag an enemy in 1.3 while using other weapons.
And me playing a class does not change my knowledge and experience on the summoner in any way. I did beat every single boss, Moon and invasion with a summoner in master mode and every boss, Moon and invasion pre-Lunar events on hardcore Mastermode for the worthy seed. I played summoner on and off since 1.4 release and I am 100% sure I have more experience with all classes than you do.
I could write down an essay on how the summoner is not doing low damage. You going to ignore it, as you ignore the small formula I did set up in my post showing that summoner deals one of the highest damage numbers across the entire playthrough and rivals everyone in DPS with a good setup.
We better not tell you there is something called auto-clickers for AFK.....
Your auto-clicker sure works if the Terraria window is in the background while I watch a movie.
Would you use a straight up repeater as a main weapon for a mage? Despite gaining no benefits? Summoner is like that but even worse due to RNG issues and the only way to fix the class is modding.
This one makes no sense either. What are you trying to say? That you cannot use a Golden Shower because a Mage doesn't use a repeater as a main weapon?
A mage doesn't use a Golden Shower as a main weapon either.
A ranger doesn't use Ichor bullets/arrows as a main weapon either.
Thorium and Calamity fix the class in very different ways. Where in Thorium seems to justify crafting more and more. Which fix the same issue. Including Melee in pre-hardmode has more than enough tanking capabilities. As the gear actually is viable.
I never played mods and dislike them, as most if not all mods are just reskins of existing stuff and bloated stats. I don't need a boss with 8,000,000 Life and a weapon that kills him equally fast as a weapon does with a 50,000 boss in vanilla.
The mages shine pre-hardmode, early hardmode they have mostly outside enviroment advantages. There is a lack of 100% gameplay from start to end for summoners. Rangers become dodging with auto aim machine DESPITE CAN TANK MORE THAN A MAGE. Mage does hit harder, but do not get abusive with mana. Though there should be attention to balancing all classes They straight up nerfed Stardust at the time was the best weapon, not Zenith is even more broken for a late game weapon.... OR THE MOST BROKEN weapon in Terraria. Debuffing for summoners would be fair via Whip or summons. Summoners feel like a multiplayer class just to avoid competing for gear from 3 different friends playing range, melee, and range. Rather than a good single player experience.
I just assume you read that part of my post, but didn't or didn't want to understand it, sadly.
Summoners shine in pre-hardmode and hardmode. They always shine if you play one right. And the stuff yo state about the classes in the last quoted part, atleast to me shows a lack of experience in said classes. Sorry.
People overestimate armor. Mage and ranger do not differ that much armor-wise. And armor becomes even less important on high difficulties.
I am just stunned about the sheer ignorance towards my posts. You have debuffing for summoners. You have any flask debuff for a summoner, you have any ammo debuff for a summoner and any mage debuff for a summoner. You have every single weapon at your disposal. Don't simply say: "No, I don't want to use them" and ask for more summoner stuff.

Again, anyone who says summoner is weak or a bad experience, is simply not playing one right, and if you or anyone else repeat it, I will just post links to any of the Youtubers who did a summoner playthrough and enjoyed it thoroughly.
I don't know. It seems to me that you think your idea is the right thing and anyone who tells you it might not be the right thing is simply getting disrespected by you.
 
You should have typed this from the beginning. It would have saved me a lot of time. For other peoples' sake please don't ever become a game developer.
May I ask you about your summoner experience in the game? What did you do on which difficulty setting.
Maybe your expertise is much higher than mine, and I should stop what I am doing, since I actually worked on 2 games before and both turned out great and the balancing I did met overwhelming positivity.
But I guess some rando on the Terraria forums knows more about balancing that people who developed the game and balanced it in the way they know is better.

In my opinion it is just poor to say: "You are an incompetent dumbass because I say so and my opinion is worth more"
 
Some Rando? Not quite.

Pre 1.4 I played Expert mode all the time. Did literally everything had everything in the game, all done solo. I even went so far as to get the best modifier for every weapon in the game, even prehardmode stuff that I wasn't using in hardmode. Now I only play Master Mode 1.4

I hate to say it but I have a hard time relating to your logic. Statements like " If you want it, go farm Slime Staffs or Finch Staffs" make me think like you either:

- Did not read what I typed or
- Did not read what I typed

It contradicts everything I previously mentioned. Time spent getting things and what they are worth when you get them. One of the main core aspects of all games. The reward you get for the time you invest. Yes, it's not always something material but I have a hard time finding accomplishment in killing a billion slimes or creating new worlds to find Living Trees because the one I play in didn't spawn with one.

See what I just did there? Nothing. Because you will find a way to try and prove that wrong or brush it aside as a mere opinion.
 
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