Working as Designed Super Star Shooter piercing causes half of its shots to not hit

A

Altair357

Terrarian
Steam or GOG
Steam
Single Player/Multiplayer
Both
Operating System
Windows 10
Terraria Version
1.4.1.1
Controls Used
Keyboard/Mouse

Reported this back in 1.4 as well. The SSS has a secondary hit that grants the target invulnerability and makes the next shot not hit. In effect, every even-numbered shot does not connect, wasting ammo and halving the weapon's DPS.
Pay close attention to the video. One shot fired - dummy gets hit twice. Two shots fired - dummy gets hit twice still. Continuous fire - you can clearly see that the dummy doesn't get hit as many times as it should.
Surely this is not intentional right? The Venom Staff had a very similar issue and was fixed in 1.4. Please fix Super Star Shooter as well, it deserves justice.
 
I noticed this as well today. If I have the time, I might try reducing the firing speed of the weapon to see if I can make it work.

It's a similar to the problem with a high-speed flamethrower. The piercing property can actually cause you to deal less damage at higher fire rates.
 
There are dozens and dozens of weapons in Terraria with piercing mechanics that prevent many rapid hits. This is how it has always been, and while I acknowledge that it isn't the best way to be, I have not had permission to completely overhaul it because it would impact the balance of so many items. A lot of items were balanced around this phenomenon, and undoing it now would be a dramatic buff.

So while I have fixed a few on a case by case basis, it is not something that I can just turn off.
 
As outrageous as it sounds, actually yes. This is a recurring code limitation that has been with Terraria literally since 2011, has been well known to the community at large for a great number of weapons and ammo combinations.

I may be able to find a solution for this particular weapon that does not profoundly impact balance, but we cannot "fix it all", not within the time available to me, nor was it something ever approved for me to do.

Any fixes to this are exceptions to the rule.

Edit: Went and took a look at this, and this weapon's stats were balanced AROUND this behavior. If I implement a fix for it now, the weapon immediately starts doing double damage . . .

That's not a good thing. Its not supposed to be doing that much damage. Its stats were built around the damage it currently does WITH the "lost efficiency" taken into consideration.

So if I rework it to not have conflicting immunity frames, I'm literally going to have to nerf it now, because the intended amount of damage was the amount it was doing before, and doubling its power outright is too strong.

So yes. "It is intentional that half of the ammo this weapon uses may miss (on a single target, mind you, multiple targets will likely be hit), because of limitations in Terraria's code, and the damage of the weapon was increased dramatically to account for the loss of DPS. If I rework it now, it will be TOO strong, and performing at UNINTENTIONAL levels of power, and we will have a bigger problem"

I'll see if I can fiddle with the mechanics enough to avoid such a problem, but I can't make any promises.
 
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I do appreciate your attention to the issue. I guess all I can say is that if you halved the damage and fixed it, the weapon would be equally viable but just be a lot more fun to use and it wouldn't waste half of your stars which are already the most tedious ammo to get. In any case, thank you for your efforts
 
I totally understand how the relationship between DPS and piercing has been since this game's inception, and I thank you for at least taking a glance at this. I honestly wouldn't mind a simple shift in the numbers, such as a much slower firing rate and everything else balanced around that for a more stable/predictable DPS. That's really what it comes down to for me: I want to have more confidence in the consistency of my damage.

For fun, I compared a few reforges with speed differences with 20 dummies in a row on my Journey Mode character – specifically Unreal, Powerful, Slow, and Lethargic (as well as "clean"). In whatever gear I had at the time, the clean SSS seemed to have the lowest DPS (9k-ish), while the others had about the same (10k-11k). I also tested on a single dummy to see the contact frequency. Unreal (+8% speed) and clean only hit every other star. Powerful (-8% speed) would hit in pairs with the occasional hiccup of just 1 and the rare 3 in a row. Slow and Lethargic (-17% speed) would hit mostly in triples with infrequent pairs and the rare 4 in a row.

With such results, I find the best reforges to most likely be Slow and Lethargic for the sake of ammo conservation.
 
I'm going to hate myself for this . . .

I can look into a "nerf" to "improve" the weapon. I say this because people are not going to properly comprehend the issue and view it as an arbitrary nerf to a weapon that didn't need a nerf.

If I can find a suitable one, I'll try to explain it in the changelog and hope I don't get pitckfork mobbed.
 
Leinfors, you magnificently-coiffed bastard . . . if you actually manage to pull this off, I am unsure how I could properly convey the magnitude of my gratitude.

In the end, if the pitchforks come, I'll understand if it gets reverted. After all, the needs of the many . . .
 
Leinfors said:
This is horrifying.

I have to SUBSTANTIALLY decrease its use time to maintain balance.

"Nerfing it" slightly increased its DPS by over 60%.

This is so backwards.
Click to expand...
Just write down that you made this weapon 100% more accurate against static enemies and reduced its ammo cost by 50% by reducing its shooting speed by 50%, because players would anyway miss every 2nd shot if used against a static enemy.
Afterwards you can say that you increased its shooting speed by x%, depending on if you reduced its shooting speed by less than 50% or not.
 
That's not accurate to the changes I'm making, however.

I am going to have to explain it, but there's a risk I'm going to have people who don't understand it and perceive it as an unwarranted nerf.
 
Is it possible to reduce the damage from the slashes to be a fraction of the main shot damage?

Could something like this work?
– Main cannon deals 60 damage per shot
– Slashes have static immunity and deal 10 damage each

Essentially the slash damage is reduced to 0, then 10 damage from the main cannon is transferred over to them.

And for a patch notes explanation, adding "every second shot no longer misses" would be good enough.
 
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