I would remind you that your opinion is no more or less valid than that of anyone else.
If you are going to continue to reply to others, you need to drop the snarky, mocking tone of your words. Post respectfully, or don't post.
Terraria State of the Game - January 2020
- Thread starter Loki
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If you are going to continue to reply to others, you need to drop the snarky, mocking tone of your words. Post respectfully, or don't post.
MistaAnderson
Terrarian
I agree with almost all of your valid points made, but disagree with your approach. I didn't say we should remove knockback altogether, nor make gimmicks that invalidate a class. There are already monsters with attack patterns that can outright ignore knockback, or make simple Melee cheese (Note the word cheese, aka mindless leftclicking) become difficult or impossible against certain foes in Expert Mode. Noone complained.
As long as these gimmicks are not consistent stat changes, they won't even make a dent compared to bosses that don't even take any knockback to begin with. You can deal with a simple charging attack that has a low chance of occurring, even if it's just enough to make you on guard.
The key here, is an enemy that introduces a new challenge despite still letting you fight it reasonably, even if that means you gotta adjust your simple-minded strategy to be slightly more clever. Again, that's why this is for people who want "Master Mode" to be a thing.
The frequency and behaviour of these new attacks will obviously be determined in frequency and power by whatever balancing the devs think is fair.
This is already what Expert Mode started doing, and it's something I wish they finished. This is precisely why EoC has a sudden rapid-insane-speed charge near the end that completely ruins your ability to circle-camp on a small arena. They changed a few bosses by giving new gimmicks, and reduced overall knockback by 10% consistently. If anything, an overall 10% consistent nerf to all of knockback is far worse than an occasional attack that might reduce knockback on some foes that have it. It's trivial as all hell.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my specific examples were great. Maybe you're right and my suggestions sucked. I wrote them on the fly.
But that's why they were just examples; I want new stuff, new interesting AI patterns, new threats in Terraria that give me a sense of newfound challenge. Something else than goddamn stat changes, and I know I'm not the only one saying that.
And remember, this is being suggested for Master Mode - a mode that was introduced because not even Expert Mode, which was supposed to "shut up the elitists", succeeded at being hard enough. You're saying that Terraria shouldn't be Dark Souls - but for the devs to even consider making a higher difficulty, means that at least a significant enough part of the playerbase disagrees with you, and wants more hardcore brutal difficulty.
People like me do not want to be able to trivialize any portion of the game, and they're exactly the kind of people Master Mode is for. I want unforgiving, brutal difficulty that doesn't just become lamesauce as soon as the "lots of HP boss" is dead, and I wanna be forced to do my outmost best and feel like the game is exciting as I progress due to how powerful even simple foes can be if I'm careless.
You don't have to be as hardcore as these players, and you certainly don't have to do a full Master Mode playthrough. That's why this is optional. If you don't enjoy a fragrance of "dark souls" on your burger, you are free to opt out.
And if it ends up being too hard, they will obviously balance it with patches and changes, as that's what they'll have to do anyway no matter which approach they pick.
Better to try and succeed at a refreshing experience, than never to try at all.
Exactly. And that's why they should find out actual good ideas that don't completely invalidate an entire build or are legitimately so difficult that you can't win. Obviously. That's called balancing, and is something noone in this thread wants to ignore. It's up to the devs to find which gimmicks are fair, and which aren't. And if they do manage to make the difficulty more than mere stat changes to the point where it actually feels like a challenging and refreshing experience, I can't wait to get my hands on it and livestream my hilarious deaths on the first day, if there are any.
Necrius
Skeletron Prime
Then I guess you're not the target audience for this addition. I think that master mode is being made for people who are motivated by challenge alone. It'll be for the better if they don't hide tangible content behind it.
Don't read that as "they haven't done anything" - what they mean there is that literally the entire team can focus on those critical path items. Getting Switch to 1.3.5 is a much shorter path because it branches off from the console (PS4/XB1 code)... so once console code is in place, it is relatively straight forward to bring it across.
Unfortunately, my guess is that solving the underlying performance "stuff" that leads to sub-par splitscreen performance on Switch is going to be a bit more involved (lots of experiments, rewrites, etc). On top of that, having a content-stable game from which to do those experiments is a godsend (as they told me) - reaching parity allows for that to be a thing.
As I've said before, I know nothing short of "here is a split screen mode on switch that plays as it should" will suffice - so I don't expect the explanation to help your mood one iota, but I wanted to provide my understanding of what and why from the PW side regardless.
I underlined the important caveat of your sentence. Is 1.4 going to be "like" 1.2/1.3? 1.2 and 1.3 fleshed out the entire progression arc in the game up to the final boss. So - in that sense, no, that would make no sense... there is no more arc to progress. That doesn't mean that things within the arc won't be added/tweaked/changed, etc. Quite the opposite, really. So - I personally view it as different but just as - if not more - impactful to the entirety of gameplay in the game. I think people forget that as being one of the long-standing goals of JE.
Cenx's intent was to be clear that anyone expecting a third set of fully-different UI's etc. should reset their expectations. It *IS* intended to be for the hardcore player - unabashedly so. We haven't revealed anything else beyond that one fact above. Anything else folks think exists or doesn't exist in Master Mode is pure speculation. I am sure we will share more in the time ahead that will answer some questions that folks have that remain unanswered.
I personally reported the splitscreen sound issue (where you can only hear sound on the host's channel) - I THINK that has been/will be addressed, but I will double check to be sure. Same with the Ocean edge crash on switch. Can you give me additional information on the sandstorm issues you are having? I have not encountered any crashing myself.
You haven't missed anything. Switch is making the leap all the way from 1.3.1 to 1.3.5.
It has been a LONG time since that was implemented... but I want to say that we did add in Corsair as well. I'll have to dig around to confirm that though.... so don't quote me on that just yet.
But we don't give out any spoilers any more.... or so I hear.
Just because we choose not to speak on some things doesn't mean there is nothing to report. Just saying. I get your disappointment that we don't always have some flashy new spoiler every time we interact... but as we always do with updates, many things remain cloaked in mystery.
If bosses have issues with balance, they would need to be addressed globally - not locking said changes behind a mode that 10% of the community (guesstimate) will play regularly. Everything IS being looked at - but not in isolation to master.
Pendromeda
Terrarian
I see both sides of the argument here and I think everyone has legitimate points. the dev team obviously didn't want to gate too much content behind master mode, as it's more for bragging rights. However people are frustrated because the update has been delayed since september 2017, so they want to see some results. I'm personally fine with whatever they can give us, as long as it's in a timely manner. On a more off topic note, I'm hoping it drops soon because it's gonna destroy mod compatibility for a while. Then again, playing vanilla again might give me the time and incentive to finally get THAT ONE ACHIEVEMENT (you all know which one I'm talking about).
Lord Garak
Retinazer
@Loki it's not the lack of spoilers that I find exasperating so much as the repetitive language. The same old spoilers being posted like they're new, the same steam sales pitch, and the same reminder that 1.4 is being worked on. Frankly if it was up to me I'd prefer no spoilers whatsoever and complete surprise on launch- that way there would be no hype train stretched thin.
Golden Heretic Snakeboat
Empress of Light
I'd Imagine That The UI Scale Makes The User Interface (UI) Bigger, Like How PS3's Interface Is WAY Larger Then PS4's.that UI scale slider really stuck out to me... can someone explain to me what that does?
i'm trying to keep my excitement for 1.4 under control, cause i am on console and i know it's a long, long ways off for those platforms.
still, i am extremely thankful to pipeworks and re-logic for providing us with so much extra content and bringing it to consoles for free.
Nicol Bolas
Terrarian
Now I'm confused. Your initial post suggested that you wanted to (for example) add moves that make knockback-based builds (or however you define "simple Melee cheese") less viable, but you now seem to recognize that Expert Mode already makes knockback-based builds less viable. So... what are you asking for? If the strategy you want stopped is already non-viable in Expert Mode, then what effect are you trying to create by making it more non-viable?
I just don't understand your point here.
Also, I don't know why it is that you're so focused on "melee cheese," whatever that may be. When it comes to cheese, the most effective method for dealing with arbitrary enemies is to use magic/ranged attacks and run away. Adding a bunch of mechanics to prevent "melee cheese" is ultimately just going to force everyone into that one playstyle.
And Expert Mode is already really good at forcing everyone into that one playstyle. If you want to make non-ranged-and-run builds even less viable, stat tweaking is good enough to get the job done.
But here's the big issue. At the end of the day, it's not "melee cheese" that makes the game easy. It's all of the mobility powers: grapples of all kinds, balloons and their various equivalents, Ninja gear, Wings, the UFO mount, teleport arenas, hoik arenas, etc. Melee attacks, by the nature of being restricted by range, limit mobility; you can either run, or you can attack, but you cannot effectively do both (not generally). Ranged attacks of various kind don't have that problem; you can run away and dodge without it inhibiting your ability to hurt stuff.
If you want a mode that makes Terraria really hard, step one is to get rid of most of those mobility powers. Because as long as those are options, ranged-and-run will always be able to trivialize most combat.
However, you might also realize that, by forcing the player into a single playstyle, you're also making the game a worse version of itself. I don't know what you personally like about Terraria, but I like options. Modes that make most options no longer viable (or at least, far less viable than the one right answer) aren't interesting to me.
OK, you are a game developer. You have a limited period of time to develop some set of features.
Now, some vocal portion of your playerbase wants the game to be harder even than the harder mode that you added to the game to appease them. OK, fine. But you know through various means that said portion, while being vocal, isn't actually that big. So whatever you do to make the game more difficult will in no way improve the experience for everyone not part of that group.
So you could spend a huge amount of time adding specialized AI for a bunch of enemies. However, that time spent will only service the needs of that portion of your playerbase. The rest will ignore that mode to the extent possible.
Or you could spend far less time doing some stat tweaking that makes the game harder, and spend a bunch more time on features that more of your players will enjoy. I think the current path is a more reasonable choice.
Izzabelle
Lunatic Cultist
As always, I look forward to more informationCenx's intent was to be clear that anyone expecting a third set of fully-different UI's etc. should reset their expectations. It *IS* intended to be for the hardcore player - unabashedly so. We haven't revealed anything else beyond that one fact above. Anything else folks think exists or doesn't exist in Master Mode is pure speculation. I am sure we will share more in the time ahead that will answer some questions that folks have that remain unanswered.
rubeszilla
Terrarian
We could be talking about that Anubis though....
.
I believe it shoots laser beams out of its eyes when an enemy opens your front door...
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Azurenova
Terrarian
That is why I'm waiting as well to spark it back up. With master mode not being what I thought now, I was going to mod it up again but kind of need to wait until it drops so that the mods are still compatible. Then I also have to wait for the mods to get done as well. But I do hope that whatever is planned is enough to get me without mods.
Sciffles
Skeletron Prime
Yeah, I agree with you.
Expert mode should just be getting the Master mode updates (some of them at least) instead of just making it a separate mode. That way players could still get expert mode items WITHOUT making another world and playing in that too. Tweaks and changes would be really good in Expert mode since now that 1.3 is in mobile, the bosses seem kinda tough.
The Storm
Golem
I don't think it should get the extra health from Master, some Expert enemies already have too much health and deal too much damage, and need to be balanced accordingly.
Sciffles
Skeletron Prime
Yeah. That is a really good change to Expert mode. And extra health just makes the fight more boring, so that is perfectly reasonable.
The Storm
Golem
I'd prefer it if the base increase was lowered to 1.5x instead of 2x, and some more enemies gained extra attacks.
Sciffles
Skeletron Prime
Totally! Most enemies just gain more damage and not that’s much more of special attacks. More unique attacks would make it more fun rather than just more damage.
Nsk1341
Terrarian
I'm aware they've been working on it. I've been hearing it regularly for 7 months now.
You're wrong Loki, even when you come here saying that split screen is being released I will feel the same. My perception of PW, ReL, and 505 will be the same.
The damage is done. I spent $30 on a rushed port which didn't contain features as advertised. As always though, I appreciate your communications. They're fortunate to have you.
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