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Terraria State of the Game - October 2020

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Greybrynn

The Destroyer
you see, MM is lazily made, a GOOD mode DOES NOT equal a HARD mode. The core of MM could be made in 5 lines of code. The UI used to activate it would be harder to make than Master itself. It's hard, yes, but hard in an artificial way. For example, Plantera is still stupid easy because Circling™, but ML's unfair and unpredictable attacks (TEoC lasers) become funy rod of discord or u are instakil attacks. A good mode would not simply bloat stats, it would change the AI, like maybe Plant would no longer be Circling Simulator™ as it would periodically dash at you and send out Spore Sac spores.
ummm..... you just said a good mode does not equal a hard mode.... yet you are asking for things that would make it a hard mode and really the i beleive it was just stat changes for a reason, a reason, really you kind of were going against what you were saying, to me. note i don't want to get into this, just wanted to chare my thought.
we get it, you hate master mode.

some people like it, especially paired with "for the worthy".

i mean, if people didn't like "artificial difficulty" i doubt anyone would buy the dark souls games and other souls-likes.

personally, i see "for the worthy" as a perfect partner to bring out MM's true potential, or vice versa... sometimes, people just want a ridiculous challenge to overcome, even if that challenge is pure, uncontrolled chaos coming down on you with the force of an entire planet.
yeah i agree, master mode on the seed "for the worthy" is very very very very hard... or just for me... i think i have died about 150+ times around beating 3 bosses(skely boi, king slime, and eye of Cthulhu) really i think it is a fun challenge, and then i hate it at the same time lol...... really the most part all i can say is that I agree.... I AGREE with that last statement...
 

ZeroJinKui

Terrarian
ummm..... you just said a good mode does not equal a hard mode.... yet you are asking for things that would make it a hard mode and really the i beleive it was just stat changes for a reason, a reason, really you kind of were going against what you were saying, to me. note i don't want to get into this, just wanted to chare my thought.

yeah i agree, master mode on the seed "for the worthy" is very very very very hard... or just for me... i think i have died about 150+ times around beating 3 bosses(skely boi, king slime, and eye of Cthulhu) really i think it is a fun challenge, and then i hate it at the same time lol...... really the most part all i can say is that I agree.... I AGREE with that last statement...
definitely not just you, the playthrough i watched had the guy getting completely wrecked by the most basic of enemies countless times.

seeing enemies one-shot him at the beginning of the game, and knowing the enemies get atleast two huge power ups as you progress the game... it's pretty crazy.

it's odd that it appeals to me so much, cause normally i am very casual, i stay away from higher difficulties and challenges in most games.
 

SkyanUltra

Terrarian
you see, MM is lazily made, a GOOD mode DOES NOT equal a HARD mode. The core of MM could be made in 5 lines of code. The UI used to activate it would be harder to make than Master itself. It's hard, yes, but hard in an artificial way. For example, Plantera is still stupid easy because Circling™, but ML's unfair and unpredictable attacks (TEoC lasers) become funy rod of discord or u are instakil attacks. A good mode would not simply bloat stats, it would change the AI, like maybe Plant would no longer be Circling Simulator™ as it would periodically dash at you and send out Spore Sac spores.
as someone who hates master mode, this is a :red:ty idea, no offense.

here's the jist: you want a harder difficulty, which makes sense. why not just add more changes to the AI then? why just do very slight changes when they could go all out and further increase the difficulty with something other than bloated amounts of health and damage, and instead give the bosses some more difficult attacks?

mods such as fargo's eternity mode are a great example of a harder difficulty than expert done well- sure, it has minor issues, but its still very fun while being difficult to beat, may i add whilst being harder than master mode. the bosses are a lot more unique with a flurry of new attacks, which i honestly feel are a lot more fun to fight against than the ~15k health wall of flesh.

As a person who personally enjoys Master Mode, I can say that in some cases, it's not necessary to make a large number of changes in a game to make difficulty enjoyable. 🤔🥤 Though the claim of bloated stats, with little else gets thrown around often, I can say with confidence, that the fight with Queen Bee, Wall of Flesh & The Mech Bosses are all noticeably different IMO.
  • Queen Bee, her dashing/ ramming attacks feel faster & seem to require the player to react quicker or to anticipate her next attack, as in some circumstances her attacks are unreactable.
  • Wall of Flesh, this Boss will pretty much steamroll you at an obnoxious rate of speed. I actually had to build a bridge to win, as it felt impossible to beat him without one.
  • Mech Bosses, these fights were always a decent challenge, but now, any mistake you make will likely get you killed. If you somehow get attacked off-guard, winning feels impossible.
  • Betsy & the OOA, this entire event will have you on the edge of your seat, no mistakes allowed...
  • The Pillar Events are insane!!
This is just the differences I noticed when fighting Bosses, but there's a whole lot of game to consider between Boss fights, which also has a huge effect on how Master Mode feels to play; things like Invasions or Events are a great example. It's also important to note that the free, extra Accessory Slot afforded to you from the very beginning, is very fun & allows more flexibility with certain builds; it's actually hard to go back to Expert Mode because of it...

...either way, I can totally understand most players disappointment, but I do feel at times the failings of Master Mode are greatly exaggerated. The unique items alone would've sold the Mode & it's not like new content wasn't added to make the experience slightly different than what players are accustomed to.
  • Some of the newer Mounts are super fun, for example the Mourning Wood Mount & Witch's Broom are hilarious!
  • The new Trophy/ Relic Items are gorgeous & a nice, new furniture item to add to your collection (try making a Trophy Room now, it looks great)!
  • Depending on your progression, using buffs & Potions feels necessary now, before they were kinda just there IMHO, if you wanted training wheels.
There's defiantly incentive to play Master Mode, as it's somewhat Expert Mode +Ultra. If you already like Expert Mode, there's really no reason to dislike Master Mode, other than principle. It's objectively more difficult & contains exclusive content. Nothing about it felt artificial IMHO. 🤷‍♂️🥤
the reasons those boss fights/events are all harder and more unique than they seem is literally only because of their bloated health. no AI changes were made at all, they literally just buffed the bosses health and damage, and gave them a couple of exclusive cosmetics and that was it. (if you didn't know, the speed of Queen Bee and WoF scales with health. that's why it felt different.) it wasn't enjoyable enough compared to when expert mode was made. yes, i know the terraria team stated it wouldn't be too big and wouldn't have all the exclusive accessories that expert had, but i was at the very least expecting a more difficult boss experience made through new attacks rather than just bloated health and damage. it was just plain disappointing, in my opinion.

there's the incentive of the cosmetic items, but that's really it. there's nothing more in it than just unfair bosses created due to the bullet-sponge properties that master mode creates out of bosses. that is why its artificial: because of the difficulty being made simply by just how much damage they deal and their health making fights an absolute slog. i'd rather just stick with a mod like fargo's soul mod and play eternity mode.

(also stop drinking soda in your argument you freak)

ummm..... you just said a good mode does not equal a hard mode.... yet you are asking for things that would make it a hard mode and i believe it was just stat changes for a reason, really you were going against what you were saying to me. note that i don't want to get into this, i just wanted to share my thought.
i think they meant that the mode shouldn't be hard because of stat changes like health and damage, making bosses a bunch of cheap bullet sponges, they're asking that, the health and damage, be toned down and be remidied with actual changes to the boss's AI to make them legitimately difficult and a lot more fair to discourage cheap strats such as circling around a boss and encourage actually fighting the boss and having a new experience with it because of the AI changes, like expert mode does.
(which, may i add, circling works on almost every boss in the game. its ridiculous how badly the bosses in terraria can be cheesed by geometry of all things)
 
the reasons those boss fights/events are all harder and more unique than they seem is literally only because of their bloated health. no AI changes were made at all, they literally just buffed the bosses health and damage, and gave them a couple of exclusive cosmetics and that was it. (if you didn't know, the speed of Queen Bee and WoF scales with health. that's why it felt different.) it wasn't enjoyable enough compared to when expert mode was made. yes, i know the terraria team stated it wouldn't be too big and wouldn't have all the exclusive accessories that expert had, but i was at the very least expecting a more difficult boss experience made through new attacks rather than just bloated health and damage. it was just plain disappointing, in my opinion.
Bosses didn't seem like a drag when I played Master Mode though, just a lot more dangerous. I might have a slight bias, because I come from the fighting game community, where we understand that small changes to a system or character, can go a long way. Making an attack 1-2 frames faster, or making an attack do 10-15% more damage can move a character an entire tier higher. Like I said, I can understand people who were expecting more, but it's certainly not a bad addition, because Expert Mode isn't bad, at most, it's probably lackluster. The exclusive items you get are undeniable though. 🤷‍♂️🥤

there's the incentive of the cosmetic items, but that's really it. there's nothing more in it than just unfair bosses created due to the bullet-sponge properties that master mode creates out of bosses. that is why its artificial: because of the difficulty being made simply by just how much damage they deal and their health making fights an absolute slog. i'd rather just stick with a mod like fargo's soul mod and play eternity mode.
I mean, maybe? Thing is, I found the difficulty to be enjoyable, because fights actually felt pretty clutch. It felt nice to over prepare & have the Bosses still give you a hard time, like being in Grand Finals, where all the players are top tier in their region. In addition, I'm starting to think that Master Mode & ForTheWorthy are a method that allows players to tweak difficulty to their liking. For example, if you don't like Master Mode, you can do the following & get the changes players were asking for...
  1. Expert Mode + ForTheWorthy (slight boost in Boss stats + small changes to A.I. & Boss sizes)
  2. Any Difficulty + ForTheWorthy (possibly to ensure that all players can participate in the secret seed, regardless of skill level)
That's one of the reasons I don't think this complaint is legitimate, a player who already likes Expert Mode can literally play Expert on a ForTheWorthy seed to get the changes they're looking for, but are still complaining about Master Mode as if it's the only way to play for some reason. I don't get it...
 

Pigman Δ

Retinazer
as someone who hates master mode, this is a :red:ty idea, no offense.

here's the jist: you want a harder difficulty, which makes sense. why not just add more changes to the AI then? why just do very slight changes when they could go all out and further increase the difficulty with something other than bloated amounts of health and damage, and instead give the bosses some more difficult attacks?

mods such as fargo's eternity mode are a great example of a harder difficulty than expert done well- sure, it has minor issues, but its still very fun while being difficult to beat, may i add whilst being harder than master mode. the bosses are a lot more unique with a flurry of new attacks, which i honestly feel are a lot more fun to fight against than the ~15k health wall of flesh.
🤦 i forgot to mention removing the stat bloat
and yes emode is amazing and is what master should have been like
 

Stahn Aileron

Terrarian
Pretty sure all four - and Otherworld Soundtrack - are on Amazon/Amazon Music?

I have it on my list to look into Bandcamp for 4 and Otherworld. GOG will have to be explored after that. I was not around when 1-2 were loaded there, and their backend systems are WAY different than way back then (that had to be what, 2013?). Much the same as trying to get a lossless HQ branch on Steam, though, it is a function of getting the time to learn the systems and get it done amidst everything else. I hear you though.
RE: Amazon Music - What I get for asking without checking first. :sigh:

Nice to see you have it on your To-Do List. My main concern was Bandcamp; that's where I purchased the previous OSTs. While I could settle for Amazon at this point, I'd like to nab the last OSTs from the same platform for consistency's sake. As a bonus, FLAC is an option with them.

Guess I'll keep waiting patiently until I see an announcement or notice of some sort from Re-Logic or Bandcamp about availability. Thanks for the reply and hard work over these years!
 

Lakmoots

Terrarian
There are good reasons - not the least of which is this gets Consoles into the 1.4 Era sooner than otherwise. Trust in the plan - we aren't just randomly doing things. ;)
Wow. Just wow.

If you arent just randomly doing thins then how do you explain the cluster**** that is Town Happiness?

Surely you have to have understood just how *broken* and *poorly thought out* it was?

Hopefully you guys get over your weird obsession with introducing "Social Distancing" in Terraria and let us make towns properly.
 
If you arent just randomly doing thins then how do you explain the cluster**** that is Town Happiness?
Nice! I never contested this claim before, as I had my own personal motivations for not doing so, but here we are again; this is perfect!

Surely you have to have understood just how *broken* and *poorly thought out* it was?
Now, as a person who is both a Master Builder (I literally make adventure maps & engines in my pastime) & was able to grasp the idea of NPC Happiness pretty quickly, can you explain exactly what's broken about it? I'd love to know, as if I ever focused on my typical builder's meta, it was pretty inconsequential at best.

Hopefully you guys get over your weird obsession with introducing "Social Distancing" in Terraria and let us make towns properly.
I'm curious, unless you're addressing the 1.4.1 changes specifically, it was reverted mostly back to it's 1.4.0 implementation. As far as I'm aware, a "proper town" is normally constructed in a manner to make certain NPCs easily assessable, so you can use their services more effectively. At any given time, there are some essential NPCs, but others are extremely optional. Here is a brief list of the NPCs most often used & considered essential to most players. 🤔🥤
  • The Nurse
  • Goblin Tinkerer
  • Guide NPC
  • Zoologist (Summoner)
  • The Angler NPC
As far as I know, none of these NPCs have any conflict with one another & maximum Happiness can be gained by other, nonessential NPCs who either enjoy being nearby, or whom also have a preference for the Biome the essential NPC has as well (i.e. Pirate, Golfer, Hair Stylist etc.), which covers the issue of prices & exclusive items like Pylons. How exactly does this effect "proper towns"?
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Also, in the case of more elaborate towns & builds, the cost for investing in them is normally outside the realm of normal progression. Are you saying that the new NPC Happiness system, along with collecting taxes, somehow interferes with your 70+ Platinum Coins you're likely to have? The sheer amount of investment spent on resources such as Paint, Wallpaper, Tiles, Player Blocks & other Unique NPC Furniture is normally pretty astronomical. What's causing you to not have the money needed to fund your elaborate towns, if that's the overall issue instead? 🤔🥤
 

Chnapy

Terrarian
I don't get this obsession some players seem to have for the new town system. You guys realise that you can still "make towns properly", right? (I'm told it mostly involves blockhouses made of 3×10 cells, truly the pinnacle of architecture). You won't be able to buy pylons, but you did fine without those before the town system came in, so...

I guess there's the money angle, but if lower prices won't make you build towns a certain way, you'll have a hard time arguing that money's so tight that higher prices are stopping you from building what you want. Plus, 99% of your expenses should be getting robbed by the tinkerer or one time buys from the mechanic or painter. If you can't find a way to get these three some halfway decent housing, that's on you,
 
Might I ask, what was the thing that wasn’t reverted back to how it was in 1.4.0?
Not sure if it was a bug, something that was supposed to be working & didn't work properly, or a new addition; either way, there's a third option to assist in reaching maximum NPC Happiness much quicker that was added or removed. Not entirely sure, as it wasn't very clear. Long story, less long, I've tested things & for the most part, it seems to be functioning normally. ⬇⬇⬇
- Reverted Town NPC House/Village check distance increase. This was doubled in 1.4.1, and has now been returned to 1.4 levels.
- NPC Happiness now gives the "Space" bonus for 3-NPC towns. Previously, there was neither a bonus nor a penalty at 3 NPCs, but this was perceived as a penalty, so its been changed.
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NPCs now tolerate up to two close neighbours, up from one in 1.4.0.
Okay, cool. I couldn't figure out exactly what was different, but I considered that to be a good thing. 😊 🥤
 
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