The debate on 'turrets'

[Xemgoa]

Edit #1: azumarill64 has corrected me that I did have a topic on it and it was met with positive results. I sincerely apologize for poorly remembering that aspect.

I made a suggestion back then about turrets being underpowered, and it got some positive comments on it. It got me thinking about how some people like the idea of a more persistent turret to exist in vanilla Terraria as a buildable, and some simply don't like the idea. Today I want to talk about that and see the communities opinions on the idea of turrets being in vanilla game, though I will have some rules at the bottom of the post.

I vaguely remember if Redigit said he wasn't going to incorperate turrets into the game either because of engine limitations or he felt his game didn't need it, we have turrets like the Queen Spider staff and the Staff of the Frost Hydra, but I want to talk about a turret that has defensive capabilities, and that could be persistently present in a world unless it gets destroyed or disable by some means.

A lot of people can debate on how fair and unfair a turret would be, from how fair it would be in PVE and PVP situations and not making the game too easy while allowing some breathing room for players to build or play in without some tedious threat chasing them (every monster has no sense of self-preservation, even when the player can clearly make short work of them near end game), or just have general disdain for a turret or they would feel they are comfortable already using the trap machines found ingame.

For this topic, I'd like to see everyone's opinion if a vanilla turret were to exist in game. What are your reasons for? reasons against? Any ideas to how to implement it into the game and balance it for PVP and PVE situations? The idea of how this could create more problems than good?

I don't expect an immediate answer, I'd like the reader to take their time carefully thinking this over, in the mean time I would like the reader to consider these rules while on this subject, to keep the topic engaging and avoid any unnecessary trouble:

• A well developed topic/thesis/hypothesis is preferable, "too op" or similar comments without anything to support why they think a turret would be O.P. will be overlooked and ignored.
• Try to keep the conversation friendly and avoid hostilities, let's be mature about this.
• Arguments are fine as long as, if they get heated, the argument that will create a negative environment get's taken to someplace private and away from everyone else, so as not to cause a fight. Like using a private message to talk it over, and hopefully come to some friendly compromise.
  
• As usual, avoid racist, sexist or any hateful remarks. Also, no hateful "faux paw" remarks either.

Have fun and I hope to see your opinions and comments on turrets.

(I might post my own opinion within this thread after letting some people post their own. I am all for a more persistent turret building that is fair to use in PVE and PVP, but I need to think how I will put it all together.)

 

[FlakMaster]

• A well developed topic/thesis/hypothesis is preferable, "too op" or similar comments without anything to support why they think a turret would be O.P. will be overlooked and ignored.

• Try to keep the conversation friendly and avoid hostilities, let's be mature about this.

• Arguments are fine as long as, if they get heated, the argument that will create a negative environment get's taken to someplace private and away from everyone else, so as not to cause a fight. Like private messages to talk it over, and hopefully come to some friendly compromise.

• As usual, avoid racist, sexist or any hateful remarks. Also, no hateful "faux paw" remarks either.

Meh, I feel like these points don't really need to be addressed. Most of them are already so in TCF's own rules. Anyway...

I'd like static turrets that one could tinker with very much, just because I'm a guy that likes their weapons. Balance is a side point, because it is standard with every piece of gameplay-changing equipment, so I believe that side of it doesn't need to be touched on that much. Moreso I'd like the raw idea to be expanded, as with most vague suggestions similar.

However, as I said before, Terraria: Otherworld is already incorporating this kind of stuff. I am unsure on whether or not having it in the current Terraria would either take too much from Otherworld or not. We'll see.

 

[Azu]

You made 1 suggestion, and the only reply was that it was UNDERPOWERED. What are you talking about?

 

[Xemgoa]

You made 1 suggestion, and the only reply was that it was UNDERPOWERED. What are you talking about?

Who are you talking to?

If it's me and this is how many months back, I don't remember.

 

[Azu]

Who are you talking to?

If it's me and this is how many months back, I don't remember.

You. You said that you got tons of people saying it was op, but in reality it's the exact opposite.

 

[Xemgoa]

You. You said that you got tons of people saying it was op, but in reality it's the exact opposite.

Doh. Than I am at fault. My mistake, let me change that.

 

[AllAround15]

It is true that it would be op in the sense that with no limitations of placement, you could easily beat hard bosses like Duke Fishron in like 15 seconds. But I do also understand how turrets might be useful in something like a solar eclipse when you are doing something and don't want to be bothered by the Swamp Thangs and Frankensteens. Personally I don't mind if they are put in there or not because I just won't use them because it feels way better to beat a challenging boss than sit there for 15 seconds and destroy a powerful boss with a flip of a switch.

 

[FlakMaster]

It is true that it would be op in the sense that with no limitations of placement, you could easily beat hard bosses like Duke Fishron in like 15 seconds.

According to what? There's no mention of specific statistics, so you can't really make that assumption.

The 'auto-killing' already exists in this game in the form of Summoning. And no one is saying summoning is OP.

 

[Lecic]

According to what? There's no mention of specific statistics, so you can't really make that assumption.

The 'auto-killing' already exists in this game in the form of Summoning. And no one is saying summoning is OP.

If the turrets are a consumable or block-based, you can't really limit the amount of them you can place.

As for summoners... they have a maximum number of minions and turrets. You can't beat a boss in 15 seconds with a ton of minions, because you simply can't have enough minions to do so.

The only turrets should be summoner ones, like the Spider Queen and the Ice Hydra, or fixed, controllable turrets like the Cannon or Snowball turret.

And in case anyone plans of bringing up Otherworld... the circumstances are different. You need the turrets to defend your purification towers when you aren't around. In Terraria, when you aren't near your stuff, it isn't loaded... so there's not really a need for turrets.

 

[AllAround15]

According to what? There's no mention of specific statistics, so you can't really make that assumption.

The 'auto-killing' already exists in this game in the form of Summoning. And no one is saying summoning is OP.

Summoning isn't OP because it has limits. Sure, you can get a couple pygmies and kill a unicorn or something but not a boss in 15 seconds. You can only get a max of 6 I think if you use the Spider and Frost Hydra Staffs plus another staff (like the Pigmy Staff) with spooky armor. Don't quote me on that. Also I am well aware there is no mention of specific statistics but if there are BUILD-ABLE turrets then you really can't limit builds, (you can but that would be weird) so it wouldn't matter the range or damage or anything because you can just place an infinite amount (in this case) of turrets which would be op.

 

[FlakMaster]

So, something you can have an 'infinite' amount of is OP? So basically the Spear traps?

Again, you're just building up assumptions about something which is only but a vague concept. How do you know there would be no limits imposed on this? Or, rather, instead of shutting down the idea why can't there be suggestions to prevent the 'abuse' of it (even though traps are abused in the same way)?

Ah, yes, there's another thing. If the turrets use penetrating attacks, then having a tonne of them won't be better than a couple of them because of the penetration invulnerability frame mechanic. In fact, it could even be deficient because the turrets would be 'stealing' your chances to hit mobs. This is what traps do at the moment; spamming an arena with spiky balls makes it hard for, for example, the Nimbus Rod to do any damage.

It's like having 9 pairs of Twins and the Retinazers synchornising their attacks. It sounds and looks cool, but it doesn't do against a single enemy.

 

[AllAround15]

So, something you can have an 'infinite' amount of is OP? So basically the Spear traps?

Again, you're just building up assumptions about something which is only but a vague concept. How do you know there would be no limits imposed on this? Or, rather, instead of shutting down the idea why can't there be suggestions to prevent the 'abuse' of it (even though traps are abused in the same way)?

Ah, yes, there's another thing. If the turrets use penetrating attacks, then having a tonne of them won't be better than a couple of them because of the penetration invulnerability frame mechanic. In fact, it could even be deficient because the turrets would be 'stealing' your chances to hit mobs. This is what traps do at the moment; spamming an arena with spiky balls makes it hard for, for example, the Nimbus Rod to do any damage.

It's like having 9 pairs of Twins and the Retinazers synchornising their attacks. It sounds and looks cool, but it doesn't do against a single enemy.

Well there are a limited amount of Spear Traps in the world. Also, I never said infinite amounts of something means it is OP. Why do you think I'm making assumptions on something that is a vague concept? because it is VAGUE I can only assume things. Then you just said something that was counterproductive to your previous statement. You assuming the turrets could have penetrating attacks. But if they do then that would be a good nerf for them. But in the case that they don't, it is over-powered.

 

[Xemgoa]

I will have to agree. We are not delving into the possibility on how to fix this problem.

I did some thinking at first of a mechanic class but then there is the issue of what would happen if the person who placed it were to use a different loadout, and it would be a matter of deciding that they should either vanish, or work half as effective.

I was hoping if turrets could be implemented, that they would need some kind of power source. Without one or to have it's power source disabled would render it offline and useless unless given power again.

And if the issue is placement, why not make it as big and bulky as the hydra, and give it placement on limitations? Like it must be placed on a certain surface type or can't be placed on platforms?

 

[FlakMaster]

Also, I never said infinite amounts of something means it is OP.

because you can just place an infinite amount (in this case) of turrets which would be op.

counterproductive to your previous statement.

No it wasn't. Me mentioning piercing attacks is in response to you and Lecic implying that a large amount of them would be stupidly powerful. I said it as a solution, which is better than just saying 'No it can't happen because of x' and just leave it as that, and also as a fact because of how masses amount of projectiles already get in the way of each other in the current Terraria.

 

[AllAround15]

Man I am so tempted to quit arguing. Alright. I mean't to say "Also I never said anything that has infinite amounts of it is OP". Sorry about that. Also, I said that mechanism would be a good solution if you read my post all the way. Another thing I never said "No it can't happen because of x" I said I could understand in the sense that it could be op because of that. Also, maybe this is just me, but I have NEVER seen two projectiles from traps collide.
[DOUBLEPOST=1435179508,1435179397][/DOUBLEPOST]Man I am so tempted to quit arguing. Alright. I mean't to say "Also I never said anything that has infinite amounts of it is OP". Sorry about that. Also, I said that mechanism would be a good solution if you read my post all the way. Another thing I never said "No it can't happen because of x" I said I could understand in the sense that it could be op because of that. Also, maybe this is just me, but I have NEVER seen two projectiles from traps collide.

 

[FlakMaster]

but I have NEVER seen two projectiles from traps collide.

What I meant by 'getting in the way of each other' is that when one penetrating attack hits an enemy, it activates the enemy's 1/6th of a second invulnerability frame and however many penetrating attacks that could hit during that period don't. Attacks that don't penetrate are exempt from this rule and can hit as many times as the game engine can allow.

 

[Varsia]

Here's what I think:

As a builder, I really do hate being constantly harassed by mobs. I can kill them easily, yes, but it still means dropping everything I'm doing to go one-hit that zombie that's just bugging me. Yes, I could just use a summon turret, but that still imposes the same issue of having to drop everything to summon it; it doesn't fix the issue.
A placeable turret that did the killing in a simple fashion while I build would be amazing, and just the overall hassle of "Oh, hey, there's a blood moon outside. Well, I gotta spend a few minutes clearing all the eyes from outside before I can even leave" would be dealt with, as I could simply have a turret constantly on guard.
To me, it'd just be a simple, yet amazing convenience item. That, and also we could just limit how close you can place one to another. Have a restrictive square that doesn't allow turret placement. Then you can't spam down turrets everywhere and farm to hell with them.

As I said, just a simple structure to fend off mobs while I build is enough.

 

[Nobody Important]

I like the solution for placed turrets by Pinelord. They can be damaged so if you place them in a boss area you end up having them all die in a short time. Against normal enemies the gun takes them out.