Biomes & Nature The Jade - Splitting the Hallow into it's own Alternate

Or it can be nixed entirely, because something just occurred to me.

There is literally nothing about Jade that correlates with Crimson beyond color. It's themed after nature- something that actually is closer to what Crimson is than it is an opposite by a massive margin. Literally the only thing that correlated with Crimson is the color- green, which is a complimentary color for red, which is obviously Crimson's color. The only thing that would make Jade an "opposite" to Crimson is that and it being a "light-ish" evil.

To contrast, let's look at Cyber, probably the best and most popular candidate for a Hallow alternate and Crimson opposition. First off- metal versus flesh. That alone speaks volumes: In a lot of cases, metal tends to oppose flesh in some way, usually in a sort of "robots versus humans" kind of aspect. This already speaks volumes in Cyber's favor, but I'm not done yet. Where Crimson is flooded with all sorts of random enemies and creatures (which presents a degree of chaos when you also consider the chaotic and unpredictable structure of its tunnels), Cyber's enemies are fairly uniform, sleek, and clean- order. Two things that also oppose each other. As well, Jade is just a generic infection, but Cyber and Crimson don't convert- they consume (because let's be honest, it's pretty hard to convert stone into steel or flesh). Another point of correlation. Sure, their grass colors aren't complimentary, but neither are Corruption's and Hallow's. (For the record, a complimentary color to purple would be closer to yellow than cyan.)

(tl;dr: there are a lot of points of correlation between Crimson and Cyber and only one or two between Crimson and Jade)

I'm going to be completely honest. If you really don't like Cyber so much, then actually think about the things that make it such a good opposing force to Crimson and try to make something better (in your eyes) with that information. Just opposing colors isn't good enough.
 
Or it can be nixed entirely, because something just occurred to me.

There is literally nothing about Jade that correlates with Crimson beyond color. It's themed after nature- something that actually is closer to what Crimson is than it is an opposite by a massive margin. Literally the only thing that correlated with Crimson is the color- green, which is a complimentary color for red, which is obviously Crimson's color. The only thing that would make Jade an "opposite" to Crimson is that and it being a "light-ish" evil.

To contrast, let's look at Cyber, probably the best and most popular candidate for a Hallow alternate and Crimson opposition. First off- metal versus flesh. That alone speaks volumes: In a lot of cases, metal tends to oppose flesh in some way, usually in a sort of "robots versus humans" kind of aspect. This already speaks volumes in Cyber's favor, but I'm not done yet. Where Crimson is flooded with all sorts of random enemies and creatures (which presents a degree of chaos when you also consider the chaotic and unpredictable structure of its tunnels), Cyber's enemies are fairly uniform, sleek, and clean- order. Two things that also oppose each other. As well, Jade is just a generic infection, but Cyber and Crimson don't convert- they consume (because let's be honest, it's pretty hard to convert stone into steel or flesh). Another point of correlation. Sure, their grass colors aren't complimentary, but neither are Corruption's and Hallow's. (For the record, a complimentary color to purple would be closer to yellow than cyan.)

(tl;dr: there are a lot of points of correlation between Crimson and Cyber and only one or two between Crimson and Jade)

I'm going to be completely honest. If you really don't like Cyber so much, then actually think about the things that make it such a good opposing force to Crimson and try to make something better (in your eyes) with that information. Just opposing colors isn't good enough.
...which is exactly why i think it should counter the corrosion, if that gets implemented.
 
Or it can be nixed entirely, because something just occurred to me.

There is literally nothing about Jade that correlates with Crimson beyond color. It's themed after nature- something that actually is closer to what Crimson is than it is an opposite by a massive margin. Literally the only thing that correlated with Crimson is the color- green, which is a complimentary color for red, which is obviously Crimson's color. The only thing that would make Jade an "opposite" to Crimson is that and it being a "light-ish" evil.

To contrast, let's look at Cyber, probably the best and most popular candidate for a Hallow alternate and Crimson opposition. First off- metal versus flesh. That alone speaks volumes: In a lot of cases, metal tends to oppose flesh in some way, usually in a sort of "robots versus humans" kind of aspect. This already speaks volumes in Cyber's favor, but I'm not done yet. Where Crimson is flooded with all sorts of random enemies and creatures (which presents a degree of chaos when you also consider the chaotic and unpredictable structure of its tunnels), Cyber's enemies are fairly uniform, sleek, and clean- order. Two things that also oppose each other. As well, Jade is just a generic infection, but Cyber and Crimson don't convert- they consume (because let's be honest, it's pretty hard to convert stone into steel or flesh). Another point of correlation. Sure, their grass colors aren't complimentary, but neither are Corruption's and Hallow's. (For the record, a complimentary color to purple would be closer to yellow than cyan.)

(tl;dr: there are a lot of points of correlation between Crimson and Cyber and only one or two between Crimson and Jade)

I'm going to be completely honest. If you really don't like Cyber so much, then actually think about the things that make it such a good opposing force to Crimson and try to make something better (in your eyes) with that information. Just opposing colors isn't good enough.

Yeah, cyber vs crimson fits, but cyber shouldn't grow because isn't a biological life form! And it's suppose to be evil, because mechanical bosses and you know... destroying the nature. I just hate the idea, and I'd love to see a biome with magical creatures from ancient forests and things like this.
 
Yeah, cyber vs crimson fits, but cyber shouldn't grow because isn't a biological life form!
You missed the "consuming" part. There is a such thing as self-replicating technology. It's very possible for the Cyber to consume blocks and use the resources it gets out of them to make more blocks of it's own variety, just like Crimson undoubtedly does. If anything, Cyber's version is MORE plausible. (Also, technically speaking, Corruption and Hallow aren't living. Your point is therefore more moot than a mountain of moot points.)

Also, I see no point in focusing solely on the "fantasy" aspect when Terraria has a lot from both it and sci-fi- the mech bosses, GUNS, ROCKET LAUNCHERS, Santank, Mechanical Glove, all other means of firearms...

Need I go on? Terraria already has elements from both fantasy and sci-fi so I see no reason why some people seem to :red: on the latter. As well, with the elements in the game that already exist along the lines of sci-fi, Cyber is not really too far-fetched. Plus, another magical biome would be... eugh. What you are asking for is a biome with basically the same kind of content that we already have, and the big thing about Crimson is it's different. Different theme, different setup, different basically everything. Having an opposition to it that has very little differences beyond color from what we already have is just boring, and I know a lot of people will agree with me on this.

The entire point of having alternates is for variety. Without variety, there isn't nearly as much replayablity in the game. It ends up more boring. Making an alternate biome that is no different from what we already have (and is a pretty poor example of a Crimson opposite to boot) basically defeats the entire point of it being an alternate in the first place. At that point you might as well just delete Crimson and stick with the original Corruption/Hallow formula. (I would have no problems with this, but that's just because I generally dislike Crimson.)

At this point, if you still don't see my point then I have no further reason to bother trying to go any further with this discussion.
 
We get it. You like the Cyber. Why don't you go convince zoomo to make a thread about it on these forums so you can discuss it there.

There is literally nothing about Jade that correlates with Crimson beyond color.
You missed the dichotomy of Meat vs. Vegetable

Terraria already has elements from both fantasy and sci-fi so I see no reason why some people seem to on the latter. As well, with the elements in the game that already exist along the lines of sci-fi
Yeah, and I don't like any of those either. I don't like my high fantasy settings to have tech levels beyond steampunk.

If I wanted to play sci-fi Terraria I'd just play Starbound.

(And having an infection that is very easy to confuse with Purity is actually a very bad thing, regardless of type.)
No, its at worst a mildly inconvenient thing. There's no need to be hyperbolic.
 
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At first it looks really nice but it is left practically unfinished. If you're aiming to suggest something as big as this; a new biome, then don't leave it so unelaborated, add more! The concept isn't the most original but nonetheless neat and the idea, well I've already explained about that.
 
The plants.

It's supposed to be one of those "eldrich sentient forests" like Fangorn Forest in Lord of the Rings.

As does sentient flesh vs. sentient plants.
And where exactly do you see these sentient plants you speak of? Because all I see is a lot of beast-like monsters ripped from Hallow. If there was actual plant monsters, maybe, but there are literally none of them in your proposition. PLUS, aiming for plant monsters is jumping straight into Jungle territory, and we've already gone over the whole "not bringing anything new to the table" thing.

And, as I just stated in the Cyber thread, a living wasteland being opposed by a nonliving, pristine plain (or desert) makes just as much- if not more- sense. Living versus lifeless. What you have is living vs living, and again, the only potential thing that could make it a worthy opposition is the color. (And again, the "plant vs flesh" doesn't really work because you have no plant monsters- Covert fits that bill better and it's a Contagion opposition.)

A word of advice- if you really want something "better" than Cyber, just splitting off part of the Hallow and calling it a Crimson opposition is nowhere near good enough, and more importantly will not earn you the support of the devs. You've already stated a theme that might work (it just needs to not end up being a borderline jungle ripoff- something you need to be careful of), actually aim for that and put real thought into it instead of basically going "oh I don't like the Cyber and there's weirdness in the theme of the Hallow I'm going to split it into a new alternate without really a lot of though", which I'm assuming is essentially what you did here. To be honest though, the existing enemies fit just fine with Hallow- it is after all a land of deception.

So yeah, if you really want to make something that actually stands to contest Cyber, please put some real effort into your suggestion. Zoomo put loads in his and- to be completely honest the chance of Cyber being implemented is pretty slim already and likely won't happen (which, with the overwhelming support for it I feel that would be a mistake, but hey, I have no say in the matter), a suggestion with even less thought and only a general theme is even less likely to be implemented. They're looking for creative and innovative suggestions- this is unfortunately neither, though it could be with refining.
 
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But... the opposite of red is cyan/blue...

And the opposite of green is purple...
That depends on what you see as "opposite". In Terraria, complimentary colors are used, at least in terms of grass colors- cyan (Hallow) is complimentary to purple (corruption), and in this case green (Jade) is complimentary to red (Crimson).

In other words, this "opposites" thing is based on the placement of colors on the hue chart, where red is next to blue (with purple in-between them) and green is on the opposite side of red. In terms of CLASHING colors, however, you would be absolutely right, however that's not what this is about.
 
That depends on what you see as "opposite". In Terraria, complimentary colors are used, at least in terms of grass colors- cyan (Hallow) is complimentary to purple (corruption), and in this case green (Jade) is complimentary to red (Crimson).

In other words, this "opposites" thing is based on the placement of colors on the hue chart, where red is next to blue (with purple in-between them) and green is on the opposite side of red. In terms of CLASHING colors, however, you would be absolutely right, however that's not what this is about.
Well, ok that makes more sense.
 
And where exactly do you see these sentient plants you speak of?
The treants.

But... the opposite of red is cyan/blue...

And the opposite of green is purple...
color-wheel.jpg


Also, the text color you're using is invisible to my forum style.
 
The treants.
Woohoo. You listed one example. One example versus the entire biome of an example that Cyber is. Congrats, you have absolutely made a difference.

Sarcasm aside, one monster is not nearly enough. Yes. You have a Treant. That is one monster out of seven, and it doesn't even spawn commonly. That does not make it an example of a "sentient plant" biome, it makes it an example of a biome with lots of primal beasts and oh hey there's a sentient tree here too.

If you really want a "sentient plant" theme, you have to do a lot better than that. If you had more plant enemies, sure, but the problem is you don't. :|
 
I kind of like the idea of a forest, but I don't think this is a good opposite of the crimson. Also this is a whole biome your trying to make, and this is just monsters. Lots of monsters. Wheres the weapons, crystal shards, the entirety of hallowed gear/bars. This is kind of cool, but it cant oppose the crimson and it is under thought.
 
One example versus the entire biome of an example that Cyber is.
I don't care about the Cyber. This isn't the Cyber thread.

Sarcasm aside, one monster is not nearly enough.
Why not? You seem to think the Crimson is doing it's job as a "sentient meat" biome. How many of the Crimson's enemies are actually meat monsters? Most of it's enemies are just red versions of other monsters. It's not like there are Meat Golems or something.

I kind of like the idea of a forest, but I don't think this is a good opposite of the crimson. Also this is a whole biome your trying to make, and this is just monsters. Lots of monsters. Wheres the weapons, crystal shards, the entirety of hallowed gear/bars.
Gotta leave something for the Devs to do.
 
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Why not? You seem to think the Crimson is doing it's job as a "sentient meat" biome. How many of the Crimson's enemies are actually meat monsters? Most of it's enemies are just red versions of other monsters. It's not like there are Meat Golems or something.
Besides the entire biome being themed after flesh, there's the floaty gross, the especially derpy-looking Herplings, Crimslimes that look a bit like fleshy slimes, Ichor Stickers which you can't honestly tell me don't look like mobile bladders spewing pi- I mean ichor at you, blood crawlers whose appearance and name both are fleshy... need I go on?

The majority of Crimson enemies have some kind of theming after some kind of aspect of blood or flesh, the primary theme of the biome. Hell, technically speaking the Face Monster could be counted in this.

By contrast, as I've already stated twice (or was it three times), Jade literally only has one plant monster, which is so rare it doesn't even make a difference. I repeat- a single rare monster does not dictate the theme of the entire biome. It is not good enough.

Hopefully my point has been made by this point. If you want to beat the competition you can't just throw a concept that doesn't even fit and call it a day- that isn't good enough. You know what makes Cyber so good? A lot of thought and time was invested in it. You've invested all of maybe an hour in Jade. If you want to best Cyber, you have to actually invest yourself in doing better. You actually have to try- put thought into the idea, actually make an effort to make something that not only works as competition to Cyber but does better than it. You don't even have to have sprites, though it'd undoubtedly help a lot. Just... go further than this. You don't succeed by throwing a concept at the wall to see what happens, you succeed by taking that concept and turning it into a full idea- by going the extra mile.

I see where you're coming from with the whole "Cyber is meh" situation and preferring a more fantasy alternative. I tend to try to see things from the perspective of others. However, the problem is the concept you've put forward is only that- a concept. Only something that takes what exists in Hallow and mimics it. Perhaps a different approach would be more prudent.

After all, let's look at this more carefully- what does Crimson have in common with Corruption?... not a lot, actually, especially when it comes to monsters. So why would Jade be so similar to Hallow? Crimson is unique, so ideally Jade should be as well. Just taking what exists in Hallow and modifying it isn't really good enough- after all, zoomo didn't really do that, and neither should you.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, if you want to put an alternative to Cyber on the table, a concept that copies Hallow isn't going to win a lot of people's favor- especially not that of the developers. You're not wrong about the plant thing, however what you currently have doesn't follow that very well. If you really want to beat Cyber, then I advise you try reconsidering the tactic you've been following thus far. Come up with something unique- flesh out the idea a bit more, give us something to work with. Give us more plant-like monsters- give us unique monsters that will make us WANT Jade if simply to face off against new AI. Make it unique. You've shown me you have the capability to do creative stuff or think outside the box (the Dynasty and easymode Hallow being good examples), so I know you can make something unique.

I'm not saying your idea's terrible, and I admit that's what I may have come across as, and for that I apologize. More so, it needs refining. Your idea has potential, but needs a hair bit of redesigning and more focus on the theme you've been so adamantly proclaiming than what it has now. You don't even need sprites- me and zoomo include sprites because, hey, we're good at that. Or at least he is. Just, refine this idea more. Take it further. Don't just leave it at the door, explore it more- who knows, you might end up creating something worthy of being competition for Cyber, or even better. But it won't become that if you don't work at it. (And to put it in the tone you started the thread with, challenging more well-though-out Hallow alternates with one that isn't really fully developed is just as productive as complaining about them constantly. :p)

why is every response I make, RP or not, so looooong
 
Besides the entire biome being themed after flesh, there's the floaty gross
Which is a slimy ghost.
the especially derpy-looking Herplings
Possibly.
Crimslimes that look a bit like fleshy slimes,
In what way? It's a red slime with highlights.
Ichor Stickers which you can't honestly tell me don't look like mobile bladders spewing pi- I mean ichor at you
And what does a floating bag of piss have to do with meat/flesh?
blood crawlers whose appearance and name both are fleshy...
It's a giant tick, which is neither of those things.
need I go on?
Apparently you should, because you're 1 for 5 so far.

You know what makes Cyber so good?
Have I mentioned I don't care? Because this still isn't the Cyber thread.
If you want to best Cyber
I don't, because I don't need to.

The Devs are going to look at all the various ideas for Hallow Alts and then they're going to pick the idea they like the most(if they even make a Hallow alt in the first place). And then they're going to make it themselves.

All the rest of it, the details, the stats on items, the alternates for every little item drop, the sprites, it's all a waste of time, because the Devs aren't going to use any of that.

At the end of the day, "A Hallow alt that's a mechanical nanogrowth" and "A Hallow alt that's an eldritch faewild" are the only parts that actually matter.
I'm not saying your idea's terrible, and I admit that's what I may have come across as
No. You come across as someone that's just REALLY invested in the Cyber, and feels the need to try and measure everything against it.
 
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