Toxophilite [East]
Terrarian
I've been seeing a lot of complaints about the Summoner Class & how weak it feels in Master Mode Worlds, basically complaints about low durability & unreliable minions. I've been experimenting with the Summoner Class in Journey Mode, Master Mode (10x enemies), swapping the difficulty around, just to test certain things whenever I wanted to. Here's what I've gathered so far...
Rules of Thumb, Summoner Class (Master Mode 06/04/2020):
That's pretty much all I've got so far. I know it works well, because I was slow to upgrade in Early Hardmode & was doing pretty ok, until the damage wasn't enough to keep enemies at bay. Once enemies started dying faster, there were almost no issues, I was even able to stand up to swarms with the 10x enemies settings with just Spider Armor. Good luck!
-Toxophilite [East]
Original Source: Steam Forums
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Addendum [06/10/2020]:
Do you suddenly stop being a Summoner by equipping Master Ninja Gear, Frozen Shell or a Star Veil? No, of course not! Do you stop being a Summoner by equipping a bow, arrows or other types of Debuffs that'll help your Minions be more effective with DPS? No, of course not! Unless Minions were purposely changed in 1.4.0.5 to be less intelligent than they were in 1.3.5, these critiques aren't legitimate, because the general consensus back then, was that Summoner just needed a better progression path, period. Not sure how that's suddenly changed in 1.4.0.5, unless again, Minions were tampered with to promote Whips or something (which, if that's the case, I'm completely behind you guys).
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Addendum [06/11/2020]:
Obvious Examples:
Some Mini-Classes (in game):
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Addendum [06/11/2020]:
I think I should add just one more list of helpful tools/ tips that Summoners can use, they're arguably Class Neutral, every Class can benefit from 'em, but Summoners' unique play-style promotes & encourages it (i.e. good movement, scatter DMG over accuracy).
Rules of Thumb, Summoner Class (Master Mode 06/04/2020):
- In a full party, the Summoner Class appears to play the Crowd Control role. That being the case, the Summoner should have both a Whip Weapon equipped (for the obvious bonus) & a high-knockback projectile-type weapon (i.e Shotgun, Explosive Bullets etc).
- Solo or in a full party, the Summoner Class should be swapping certain Minions in & out depending on the circumstances (oftentimes a mixture of several). Some Minions are superior to others in certain situations. For example, Spider Minions are extremely great against grounded enemies, but struggle against airborne enemies.
- To get the full benefit of Summoner Class, players should be using DoT (damage over time) & debuff abilities (i.e. Ichor Darts, Cursed Darts, Weapon Buffing Flasks), alongside their Minions. A Summoner should be dealing out as much DoT/ DPS as possible, while keeping their distance & also closing in when warranted. You'll get the best out of your Minions & Whips abilities this way.
- Summoner Class should always have the following potions equipped in Master Mode, Iron Skin, Endurance, Dangersense, Hunter, Night Owl, Swiftness, Heartreach & Recall. Most of these are absolutely essential, expect to die often if you chose to ignore this.
- Lastly, the Summoner Class should have a Summoner's loadout, Summoner Emblem included, with a preference for Menacing tinkering & less of the usual Warding. You want to be doing as much damage as possible & have good movement, the potions you have equipped will help greatly with this when being swarmed. If you are surrounded, Warding won't help the Summoner Class nearly as much as the DPS from Menacing tinkering, so try going for more damage & less defense.
That's pretty much all I've got so far. I know it works well, because I was slow to upgrade in Early Hardmode & was doing pretty ok, until the damage wasn't enough to keep enemies at bay. Once enemies started dying faster, there were almost no issues, I was even able to stand up to swarms with the 10x enemies settings with just Spider Armor. Good luck!
-Toxophilite [East]
Original Source: Steam Forums
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Addendum [06/10/2020]:
This is the issue I mostly have with ppl who critique the Summoner Class. There's no rule that says you have to use the Whip Weapons in every situation; there's also no rule that says you can't kit yourself out to mitigate the obvious flaws of being the Summoner Class, there's just too many defensive & evasive options that are Class neutral to justify this way of thinking, which is why I'm stil so confused by it.In the hands of just about anyone other than summoner, minions are actually way more useful than people seem to acknowledge, especially when I know I have a buff slot I can use to summon several of a specific type of minion. This is why I feel summoner really needs just way more options than just whips and dodging because half the time it feels like you do nothing as summoner since all the summon weapons, the non minion/sentry ones, are so niche it's sometimes not worth even attempting to use against specific bosses/enemies. The class would feel wholly different if it had something to do other than watch it's minions slowly kill someone's motivation to play the class (unless someone enjoys grindy hard challenges). This is also why I play this "melee summoner" class to basically use whips and summons as my "yo-yo" and still play a more close range melee tank with broadswords (or starlight/scourge) as my other primary weapon.
Do you suddenly stop being a Summoner by equipping Master Ninja Gear, Frozen Shell or a Star Veil? No, of course not! Do you stop being a Summoner by equipping a bow, arrows or other types of Debuffs that'll help your Minions be more effective with DPS? No, of course not! Unless Minions were purposely changed in 1.4.0.5 to be less intelligent than they were in 1.3.5, these critiques aren't legitimate, because the general consensus back then, was that Summoner just needed a better progression path, period. Not sure how that's suddenly changed in 1.4.0.5, unless again, Minions were tampered with to promote Whips or something (which, if that's the case, I'm completely behind you guys).
Every Class in Terraria benefits in some way or another by being a Hybrid, that's been true since like... forever ago. Which Class benefits the most & from what remains to be seen, as the Meta for each Class should be slightly different due to the changes in almost everything. I can't trust the words of anyone declaring things so early in the games updated life, especially when most of their complaints that I've addressed so far, typically have to do with lack of certain knowledge, which is understandable, but it happens so often that I'm left wondering if it's the actual game that's flawed, or am I listening to a person with a bruised ego? It's getting really hard to tell at this point...In the end, I don't think anyone can get away with not comparing summoner to other classes as there's no way to easily judge a class within its own scope. It's a whole lot easier to compare and contrast where and how summons are used and find a way to bring that feel or gameplay pattern to summoner than to assume that "more items" or "buffs" is the only way to make summoner better. I care way more about how the class feels than how it works on paper. Stats are stats, a playthrough is an experience.
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Addendum [06/11/2020]:
It's something I've considered, but it'd be disingenuous to give biased information as opposed to what's actually presented. What you're describing is something akin to the DD2 Summoner Class, that's unlocked by completing Events & normal game progression. There's no RNG involved, unlike Early Game Summoner Class.The Queen Bee drops materials that get crafted...The Imp Staff is crafted. The Spider Staff is crafted, along with the every summon armor except the Tiki Armor...your evidence of the Summoner being a "stumble upon class" is lacking. It would be more accurate to say that the pre-Queen Bee minions are previews, little bonuses that you can accidentally find before introducing the class properly.
Obvious Examples:
- Variegated Lardfish
- Finch Staff
- Vampire Frog Staff
- ???
- Spooky Armor
- Raven Staff??
- Deadly Sphere Staff
Likely because it's not a Mini-Class, but a stumble upon that can actually be completed, again, just like other games. Being introduced to the Class later in the game doesn't make it just one or the other, it can be both (I play a lot of sandbox & open-world games so, it's not a new concept to me).So, why does the Summoner get its own damage type? Why does it get its own emblem? Why does it get it's own Pillar during the Lunar Events?
Some Mini-Classes (in game):
- Lancer/ Mounted Lance
- Paladin
Throwing- Fisherman
- ???
I'm not sure what you mean, as each new update was worked to refine already-existing content. Thrower Class was likely discontinued because it was redundant & didn't add anything interesting to the game. Summoner was fleshed out & feels much more complete, this goes for other Classes I've also dabbled in (namely Mage). If that kind of Class is a new concept to you, I can understand the confusion, but either description is fine. The difference between the two is splitting hairs at best. I'm totally cool with "later game Class", makes no difference to me. LoLNone of those things make sense in a world where the Summoner wasn't like the other 3 classes. And that's what the Summoner was like pre-1.2.4. That's what "throwing" weapons were like pre-1.4 (when they were folded into Ranged).
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Addendum [06/11/2020]:
I think I should add just one more list of helpful tools/ tips that Summoners can use, they're arguably Class Neutral, every Class can benefit from 'em, but Summoners' unique play-style promotes & encourages it (i.e. good movement, scatter DMG over accuracy).
- Crimson Rod
- Spiky Ball(s) & Ranger Emblem (optional)
- Bee Gun (scatter DMG)*
- Shotgun/ Onyx Blaster* + Explosive Bullets [Venom Rounds/ Nano Bullets] & Ranger Emblem (Scatter DMG)
- Clinger Staff (insane knock-back)
- Nimbus Rod
- Poison Staff/ Venom Staff (DoT)
- Cursed Darts/ Ichor Darts* (+ any Blowgun or Dart gun & Ranger Emblem)
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