Weapons & Equip The Throwverhaul - Throwing made into a viable long-term playstyle

[Yvori]

What exactly is a "class?" In Terraria, I go by damage type. So we have Melee, Ranged, Magic, Summon... and Throwing?
Wait, Throwing is a class now? Well... Not exactly. It's a class for the first 10 minutes of the game... and then it isn't. It seems like the devs thought adding "throwing damage" as its own type would be cool... And they would be right. However, they appear to have just suddenly stopped thinking it was cool after getting two armor types and a handful of weapons done. Oops. So now we have two sets of armor which give throwing damage, and very few actual weapons to use, all of which are early game, too.

Now, I like the idea of throwing as a seperate class. Could be really neat, and it would be a nice addition to spice things up for those who have played the other four classes to the moon (lord) and back. So my proposal is the Throwverhaul update... That pun hurts my soul. Anyhow, what would this do? Well it would flesh out throwing into a proper class, of course!

ARMOR
What are our options? Well, we already have two armors for throwing, the Fossil and Ninja sets, so that's a great start. Neither are particularily good, though. Since the Ninja armor depends on your ability to kill the King Slime multiple times and hope you get the right pieces, I'm going to say it'll be a bonus set. Now, mages have two major pre-hardmode armors, the Jungle and Meteor sets, so, discounting the Ninja set, that seems like a good start.

There's another armor already in existance which looks like it would fit tier-wise into the second armor role: The Obsidian set/Obsidian Outlaw set. As said, it requires Obsidian, which, before getting the Dark Pickaxe of your world, is quite difficult to obtain, so unless you're very industrious with explosives, you need to beat the Eater/Brain to get it, much like the Necro or Meteorite armors. The best part is, this set is useless as it stands - same as Gold, no set bonus at all. It's like it was made for the job! The other set would be the Fossil set, of course. Fossils could be weakened so you only need a Gold pick to get at them in order to account for this. As for Hardmode armor, I don't have any ideas for the specific sets, yet. Any suggestions would be nice, along with some ideas for the stats of all these.

Edit: My current proposed early-game progression is as follows:
Ore Armors > Ninja > Obs. Outlaw > Gladiator > [Hardmode] > Fossil > etc.
Some changes are nessessary to have this make sense, but I think it's the best option currently.

>>Fossil Armor: 14 Def
Helm: 4 Def, +10% Throwing critical chance
Chest: 6 Def, +10% Throwing damage
Legs: 4 Def, +20% Throwing velocity
Set Bonus: +20% chance not to consume thrown item, +5% throwing critical strike damage
Edit: switching some things around here.

>>Ninja Armor: 15 Def
Helm: 4 Def, +15% Throwing critical chance
Chest: 6 Def, +15% Throwing range
Legs: 5 Def, +20% Throwing velocity
Set Bonus: +10% throwing critical strike damage
Rogues' second boss (after the Eye) would be King Slime, although he would still be optional, of course. Instead of dropping a random piece of the Ninja set, thereby requiring a bunch of farming, he would drop Preserved Ninja Tool Fragments, which can be combined to make the set. The amount needed would be similar to the Bee Wax needed for the Bee Set, requiring a total of 2 kills, max. They could also be used to make a weapon, perhaps. Something akin to the Bone Glove which powers up shurikens.

>>Obsidian Armor: 17 Def
Helm: 5 Def, +15% Throwing critical chance
Chest: 7 Def, +10% Throwing damage
Legs: 5 Def, +25% Throwing velocity
Set Bonus: 10% chance not to consume thrown item, +15% throwing critical strike damage
After getting the materials for the Cor/Cri pickaxes you could get the Obsidian Outlaw set. Technically you could skip this with explosives, but that's risky what with the lava and all.

>>Gladiator Armor: 21 Def
Helm: 7 Def, +5% Throwing damage
Chest: 7 Def, +6% Throwing damage
Legs: 7 Def, +5% Throwing damage
Set Bonus: 10% chance not to consume thrown item, +10% throwing critical strike chance
This set is an outlier, trading the crit of most throwing items for a straight damage boost and a significant defence boost compared to the others. Not exactly an upgrade when taking into account the crit and velocity of the others, but that's the point. It's a sidegrade, sort of, for if you want to be a bit more tanky. Hoplites have a chance of dropping Hoplite Armor Fragments which, combined with Bone from the Dungeon and perhaps some Hellstone, allows crafting of the Gladiator Set instead of it being random drops. Most classes get between 1 and 2 Pre-Hardmode armors, so I decided for this one to be a bit different, as it's the "extra" one.

HARDMODE:

>>Fossil Armor: 28 Def
Helm: 8 Def, +11% Throwing critical chance, +15% Throwing critical damage
Chest: 11 Def, +15% Throwing damage, +10% Throwing speed
Legs: 9 Def, +10% Movement speed, +10% Throwing velocity
Set Bonus: 25% chance not to consume thrown item, +11% throwing critical chance
Fossil would be the first thing you go for in Hardmode, thereby giving a point to the dangers of the early Hardmode desert. They would no longer be breakable by anything less than a Cobalt Pick, and them dropping from Hardmode enemies would now make sense.

More TBD at a later date, probably...

WEAPONS
Let's face it, currently, Throwers (Throwers? Someone please come up with a better class name. Jugglers, maybe!... Maybe not... Maybe.) Rogues (I've settled on calling the class Rogues for suggestion purposes) are pretty boring. There are shurikens, knives, which are pretty much shurikens but which don't survive being thrown, and grenades, which... Kaboom. Javelins, too. And all are exactly the same. Now, we have an obvious Throwing weapon type already, but it isn't counted as such. Boomerangs! Chakrams! Those things! Unlike flails, spears, swords, yoyos, etc. they completely leave your hand when thrown. They are perfect for throwing weapons. Besides, Melee has enough types of weapon already.

ADDITION: Some good suggestions so far.
Wyvernil suggested some mechanics for some hardmode shuriken-type weapons. Kunais which launch three when thrown - like Vampire Knives. (Which reminds me, under my definition of "throwing weapons", Vampire Knives would be thrown. That would probably annoy a lot of melee users... So... I dunno what to do there.)
Javelins would recieve a slight but noticable power boost, and there would be multiple items like the Bone Glove which strengthen various consumable throwing weapon types, perhaps even making things like Shurikens useful in Hardmode.

What other weapon types could we add to this? I'm making this up as I go along, so if anyone has ideas, please, let me know! Anything!

ACCESSORIES
Like any good class, we need shiny things. Lots of shiny things. Every class has a pretty decent set of accessories so far (I say decent because the Summoner doesn't really have anything too special yet) but throwing... does not. So here are a few basic ideas:

>>Gripping Glove: +10% critical chance with Throwing weapons. (I envision Throwing as a crit-based class more than sheer power... Though I'm sure people could play them as sheer power.)

>>Invisible Wire: Pulls any consumable throwing weapons (like shurikens) which have landed toward you. (Similar to the what Heartreach buff does with hearts, etc.) Also decreases the chance of such things breaking, and gives ones that always break (like throwing knives) a low chance to survive.

>>Ghost Belt: If you run out of a consumable throwing weapon with this equipped, it is replaced by a weaker, slower "ghost" item which is worth nothing and vanishes if tossed away (like a star does at day). This ghost item will always have a throw. unless trashed or thrown away, or unless more of the replaced item are found, in which place they go back into the same slot the ghost item is. Think Infinite Musket Pouch or Endless Quiver, but in Accessory form, and far more complicated.

EDIT: This was overcomplicated. Upon looking at Wyvernil's suggestion, I've basically decided just making the "Endless" variants of weapons be entirely seperate, craftable weapons would just make far more sense, AND be a lot easier. They would not be "ammo", but actually need to be used in a weapon slot, since them being considered ammo would make higher-tier weapons that utilize shurikens, for example, as ammo also be infinite, which would be unbalanced.

>>Pneumatic Wristlet: +10% increased Throwing velocity. +10% Increased Throwing Range.

>>Targeting Eyeglass: +20% Throwing critical damage.

ADDITION: Suggested by Psicotrolka:
>>Rogue Emblem: +15% Throwing damage.
How I didn't think to add a [class] Emblem to the list, I have no idea, but here it is, free of charge!

That's all I really have for now. If anyone has suggestions, please, add them below.

 

[Wyvernil]

To make the throwing subclass a complete class, I'd suggest moving some of the melee weapons into the thrown category, such as Boomerangs and Vampire Knives. The best way to do this, in my opinion, would be to introduce dual-type weapons and make those weapons Melee/Throwing hybrids, like I suggest in this thread below:

http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...n-be-enhanced-by-multiple-damage-types.26398/

Adding some hardmode throwing weapons, like Crystal/Chlorophyte Knives and Javelins, would be good as well. For more ninja-style coolness, maybe add Kunai as a hardmode version of the throwing knives that hurls a fan of three projectiles at once.

That could be the gimmick for Hardmode throwing knives - they start spitting out multiple projectiles for crowd control, while Javelins are the single-target option.

Maybe add hatchets/tomahawks/throwing axes as a new thrown weapon type. These would fly in a high, short arc like the axes from Castlevania, and trade off range for power.

Additionally, there could also be Thrown projectile weapons like the Bone Glove - these could add properties like throwing multiple projectiles at once or increasing velocity. For example, a Ninja Glove weapon might let the player holding it throw out fans of shurikens/knives, and an Atl-Atl would increase the power and velocity of javelins.

Finally, you could be able to make Endless Knife Belts and Endless Javelin Quivers, like the endless ammo containers the ranged weapons get.

 

[spitket]

That's all I really have for now. If anyone has suggestions, please, add them below.

Well, I have suggested this idea one time in a shaman class thread, It is a good idea because there are a lot of "throw damage" weapons in the game right now... So, I think that would be a good idea make a "Thrower Emblem" or something like that.
Also, this idea is very explicit, but I don't like the class name.

-Thanks​

 

[Yvori]

To make the throwing subclass a complete class, I'd suggest moving some of the melee weapons into the thrown category, such as Boomerangs and Vampire Knives. The best way to do this, in my opinion, would be to introduce dual-type weapons and make those weapons Melee/Throwing hybrids, like I suggest in this thread below:

http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...n-be-enhanced-by-multiple-damage-types.26398/

Adding some hardmode throwing weapons, like Crystal/Chlorophyte Knives and Javelins, would be good as well. For more ninja-style coolness, maybe add Kunai as a hardmode version of the throwing knives that hurls a fan of three projectiles at once.

That could be the gimmick for Hardmode throwing knives - they start spitting out multiple projectiles for crowd control, while Javelins are the single-target option.

Maybe add hatchets/tomahawks/throwing axes as a new thrown weapon type. These would fly in a high, short arc like the axes from Castlevania, and trade off range for power.

Additionally, there could also be Thrown projectile weapons like the Bone Glove - these could add properties like throwing multiple projectiles at once or increasing velocity. For example, a Ninja Glove weapon might let the player holding it throw out fans of shurikens/knives, and an Atl-Atl would increase the power and velocity of javelins.

Finally, you could be able to make Endless Knife Belts and Endless Javelin Quivers, like the endless ammo containers the ranged weapons get.

The melee-made-throwing suggestion was indeed one I already made in my post, but I never considered multiple damage types on single weapons. That could definitely be interesting, and it would make hybrid classes all the more possible, though it could also needlessly complicate things. The kunais are a very good idea, as is the gimmick. Hatchets and the like are a good idea, though maybe call them throwing axes to avoid confusion with the boomerang-type weapon the Possessed Hatchet.

I think I get what you mean by thrown projectile weapons - I've never had the bone glove so I'm unsure, but do you mean you throw something out which then launches its own projectiles automatically? Like the Magnet Sphere but non-magical and with less lightning? Because that could be really cool.

My Ghost Belt suggestion was sort of meant to be a complicated answer to the Endlesss/Infinite Ammo things, though I think it may just make more sense to have them be seperate, craftable weapons instead of some bizzare overcomplex accessory like I suggested.

Well, I have suggested this idea one time in a shaman class thread, It is a good idea because there are a lot of "throw damage" weapons in the game right now... So, I think that would be a good idea make a "Thrower Emblem" or something like that.
Also, this idea is very explicit, but I don't like the class name.
-Thanks

I didn't think about the emblems when I made the thread, but yes, there would definitely be a thrower emblem to go with the other four!
And yeah, I don't like the name either. I asked for suggestions, so if anyone has any I'd be glad to hear them!
Ideas:
-Rogue/Thief (We have Warrior, Ranger, Mage, Summoner, so surely there should be a rogue class!)
-Ninja (They are well known for using thrown weapons.)
-Grenadier (There are explosive thrown weapons? I mean, maybe? Probably not)

Honestly I think Rogue would be the best name for the class. Maybe even add some late-game "stealth" bonuses like the ranger gets - maybe add more velocity when moving and more damage when standing still or something. Might be interesting?

 

[DialgaTheTimeLord]

I'm just not really sure the "throwing" class could do anything different that a different class doesn't. Mage uses mana, Melee doesn't require anything, Ranged uses ammo, and Throwing would use... different ammo? Unless it used a hybrid such as Magic Dagger being reclassed as throwing and still costing mana, but then it would feel to gimmicky and convoluted. If it can be handled in a way that genuinely feels unique and inspired, I'm all for a new, proper class, but as it stands, I'm actually okay with it solely being pre-hardmode.

 

[ArmegeddonCraft]

I would like to see it become its own class, but for the time being, its perfect for a duel class playthrough.

 

[Clooless]

Good Idea. SUPPORT!

 

[Mr. Mastodon Farm]

I always felt that the bone glove thing could be expanded upon, but that the bone glove itself was kind of weird, and made it feel more like a bad ranger or something. I think there should be more gloves that work similarly (powering up early game throwing weapons) but they should be accessories.

also, the ninja set should be functionaly the same as the fossil set (kind of like how there is the ancient cobalt armor which is the same as jungle armor)

Fossils should be easier to break, probably breakable with gold or bombable or something. also, why do basilisks drop them in hardmode? it's not useful by then... they should be dropped from antlions, and then maybe the armor could be uprgraded with antlion mandables and light/dark souls or something. also, they could be used with souls and some hardmode ores or souls to make new gloves? idk, just some ideas.

also, the gladiator set should either be a thrower set, and made so it only drops in hardmode, or make it into a crafting material to use with hardmode ores/souls for hardmode armor.

 

[ManaUser]

How about those basic Javelins from the skeleton Hoplites, why are they significantly weaker when we them than when the dead Romans are throwing them at us? Just boosting those from 17 to 24 damage (like the Hoplite does) would go a ways to give Rogue some viable weapons.

Come to think of it, those guys have an armor set too. Given they're throwers themselves, giving that suit a throwing bonus seems pretty reasonable. (Currently it's another completely meh armor set like the obsidian outlaw.)

 

[Yvori]

Well, I've had my own ideas with a large tier list to strictly go by, (there's a tier I might remove from it tho) and seeing things not go by this list really bothers me... bah. But anyway, nice ideas. Though if anything, make ninja less of an direct upgrade to fossil, as it upsets my tier list... or just me. SUPPORT!
(If you wanna see my stuff, it's in the signature, the rainbow one)

I'm going to stop you right there. The reason this isn't in line with your tier list is because this isn't your suggestion - please respect that.
Most of your post is just you essentially advertising your tier suggestion on someone else's topic, and that feels kind of rude.
That aside, thank you for the support.

I always felt that the bone glove thing could be expanded upon, but that the bone glove itself was kind of weird, and made it feel more like a bad ranger or something. I think there should be more gloves that work similarly (powering up early game throwing weapons) but they should be accessories.

also, the ninja set should be functionaly the same as the fossil set (kind of like how there is the ancient cobalt armor which is the same as jungle armor)

Fossils should be easier to break, probably breakable with gold or bombable or something. also, why do basilisks drop them in hardmode? it's not useful by then... they should be dropped from antlions, and then maybe the armor could be uprgraded with antlion mandables and light/dark souls or something. also, they could be used with souls and some hardmode ores or souls to make new gloves? idk, just some ideas.

also, the gladiator set should either be a thrower set, and made so it only drops in hardmode, or make it into a crafting material to use with hardmode ores/souls for hardmode armor.

The Bone Glove is a good idea, but not incredibly useful, especially as an Expert-Only item. I don't see its usefulness nor why it's Skeletron's super-special Expert item... That said, making glove-type items accessories is a bad move, as it wastes accessory slots, which are always in high demand. While they do make Rogues seem closer to Rangers, there are still enough differences to make them distinct imo.

I don't agree with the Ninja set being the same as the Fossil, although I do have a potential switcharound. Since Basilisks drop them, I got the idea of perhaps making them only breakable in Hardmode - the Fossil set could be something like an Early Hardmode equivalent to the Cobalt/Palladium/Mythril/Orichalcum sets but for Rogues. Your idea for using them as a material to make Hardmode sets would also work, though, and I agree their functionality should be expanded to weapons as well.

The Gladiator set could replace the Fossil set in pre-Hardmode then, perhaps switching things around to be something like:
Ore Armors > Ninja > Obs. Outlaw > Gladiator > [Hardmode] > Fossil > etc.
That way, Throwers' second boss (after the Eye) would be King Slime, although he would still be optional. After getting the materials for the Cor/Cri pickaxes you could get the Obsidian Outlaw set. Hoplites then have a higher chance of dropping Hoplite Armor Fragments which, combined with Bone from the Dungeon and perhaps Hellstone, allows crafting of the Gladiator Set instead of random drops, making it the best possible pre-Hardmode Rogue set, if a tad tedious to obtain.
Fossil would be the first thing you go for in Hardmode, thereby giving a point to the dangers of the early Hardmode desert.

How about those basic Javelins from the skeleton Hoplites, why are they significantly weaker when we them than when the dead Romans are throwing them at us? Just boosting those from 17 to 24 damage (like the Hoplite does) would go a ways to give Rogue some viable weapons.

Come to think of it, those guys have an armor set too. Given they're throwers themselves, giving that suit a throwing bonus seems pretty reasonable. (Currently it's another completely meh armor set like the obsidian outlaw.)

(See above on the armor)
As for the Javelins, yes, they could use a boost, given that Hoplites are pretty dangerous to farm early on (albeit less so now that Medusa isn't a pre-hardmode threat). I've never actually used them seriously, but I assume their use speed is also slower than throwing knives and the like.

Anyhow, I'm going to update the opening post with some new info.

Also, I've considered trying my hand at Terraria modding at some point in the future, especially now that major updates are going to slow down. Considering that as a result, we likely won't see stuff like this changed around so significantly, how would people feel about a Throwverhaul Mod? Terrible pun name, amateur scripter and terrible spriter making the mod, what could go wrong? Of course, this wouldn't be an ideal solution, since Terraria has very little in the way of official Mod support, but it's a possibility, once I finally get around to actually sorting out all the details and numbers and the like.

 

[Clooless]

I very much apologize, I only wanted to share my ideas. (And aside from that, the truth is, I really wanted more activity on it, more feedback... I guess it's that's something I can get away with by advertising on someone else's thread.) I did not want it to come off as advertising, but I guess there is no helping that. As I re-read it, I see how bad I messed up and I truly apologize. (The post sort of makes me cringe now)