NPCs & Enemies Wall of Flesh Weapon drop rework.

why is everyone neglecting the fact that you can just - fight wall of flesh again until you get your desired weapon. I agree with shyguymask though
you are ignoring the fact that it's very hard to just "Fight it again" the game is now in hard mode and there are now MUCH harder enemies to deal with while fighting the boss. (Yes boss fights REDUCE other enemy spawns but not entirely.)
 
you are ignoring the fact that it's very hard to just "Fight it again" the game is now in hard mode and there are now MUCH harder enemies to deal with while fighting the boss. (Yes boss fights REDUCE other enemy spawns but not entirely.)
Not in the underworld. The new bats aren't really an issue. Just build a house with the ash wood and let the guide move in. You don't even need to go to the surface. I would rather wait a few minutes than make a whole :red: new build.
 
It should also be made shimmerable
Breaker Blade -> Clockwork Assault Rifle
Clockwork Assault Rifle -> Laser Rifle
Laser Rifle -> Firecracker
Firecracker -> Breaker Blade
This is the best way to solve the issue imo. I mean, the emblems are already able to be shimmered in to each other, I don't see why it couldn't apply to any of the weapons either.

On the one hand, Terraria isn't designed to be played as strictly one class. On the other hand, getting bad luck and 3 Breaker Blades in a row when in multiplayer and wanting your friend to have a reliable weapon sucks. But really it's just fixed by not limiting yourself to one class, and instead getting one of the other easily obtainable early hardmode weapons.
 
It really it's just fixed by not limiting yourself to one class, and instead getting one of the other easily obtainable early hardmode weapons.
The problem with that is that you're segregating people who like playing one class.
 
The problem with that is that you're segregating people who like playing one class.
Yeah, which is part of why I agreed above that shimmering the weapons is good.
 
I really do not see the point of shimmering the wall's weapons in between one another. As baconfry brought up, literally no other bosses work this way. All of the wall of flesh's drops are completely replaceable and are not at all needed to progress in early hardmode. Apart from the firecracker and maybe the clockwork assault rifle (though the phoenix blaster is a more than suitable substitute), I often find myself swapping out my wall of flesh drop for something else almost immediately, and that's if I happened to get one for the class I was playing in the first place.

Every class has easy to get weapons in early hardmode that don't come from the wall of flesh.
  • Melee: Ore swords/spears (while not great, it's still more than on par with the breaker blade of all things), yo-yos (e.g. gradient/format:C, chik, amarok/hel-fire)
  • Ranged: Ore repeaters
  • Magic: Ice rod, any of the 3 spell tomes (cursed flames, crystal storm, golden shower)
  • Summoner: Literally all of the spider gear
All of these options are very feasible to get in less than 15 minutes with pre-hardmode gear, so you really don't need a wall of flesh drop. Firecracker is the one exception, since its unique functionality makes it very useful for several different stages of progression, but getting spider gear makes the rematch with the wall significantly easier so it's still not that big of a deal if you don't get one on the first kill.

Also, the underworld gets literally zero changes when the wall has been defeated, which makes rematching the boss identical to the first kill. If there's a wall of flesh drop you want at the start of hardmode, there's nothing stopping you from just fighting the boss again before doing anything in hardmode.
 
I really do not see the point of shimmering the wall's weapons in between one another. As baconfry brought up, literally no other bosses work this way. All of the wall of flesh's drops are completely replaceable and are not at all needed to progress in early hardmode. Apart from the firecracker and maybe the clockwork assault rifle (though the phoenix blaster is a more than suitable substitute), I often find myself swapping out my wall of flesh drop for something else almost immediately, and that's if I happened to get one for the class I was playing in the first place.

Every class has easy to get weapons in early hardmode that don't come from the wall of flesh.
  • Melee: Ore swords/spears (while not great, it's still more than on par with the breaker blade of all things), yo-yos (e.g. gradient/format:C, chik, amarok/hel-fire)
  • Ranged: Ore repeaters
  • Magic: Ice rod, any of the 3 spell tomes (cursed flames, crystal storm, golden shower)
  • Summoner: Literally all of the spider gear
All of these options are very feasible to get in less than 15 minutes with pre-hardmode gear, so you really don't need a wall of flesh drop. Firecracker is the one exception, since its unique functionality makes it very useful for several different stages of progression, but getting spider gear makes the rematch with the wall significantly easier so it's still not that big of a deal if you don't get one on the first kill.

Also, the underworld gets literally zero changes when the wall has been defeated, which makes rematching the boss identical to the first kill. If there's a wall of flesh drop you want at the start of hardmode, there's nothing stopping you from just fighting the boss again before doing anything in hardmode.
Actually, this made me change my mind. Weapons shouldn't be shimmerable. No support.
 
The primary difference between the Wall of Flesh compared to every other boss is the context around defeating it. There is an immediate, permanent, map-wide effect upon defeating the boss and the only other boss that does something similar is Cultist, who doesn't have any drops to begin with.

Bosses can be kinda boiled down to this:
Defeated King Slime? Good job, here's a pet for your town.
Defeated the Eye? It'll stop pestering you.
Defeated the evil boss? You can now make a better pickaxe. Try mining more stuff you couldn't break before.
Defeated Queen Bee? Make some room for the Witch Doctor. Didn't get the drop you wanted? No pressure, just fight her again.
Defeated Deerclops? .. what the heck is that thing doing here?
Defeated Skeletron? You can now enter the Dungeon. Take your time, it's not going anywhere. Didn't get Book of Skulls? Did you even want it?
Defeated the Wall of Flesh? There's now an entire new evil biome stretch as well as the Hallow being generated, also both of these biomes spread. Better find them! Oh, there are stronger enemies roaming the map too, so be careful! Here's hoping your Desert isn't evil now, or else you may have just lost it! I see you have Necro Armor on, here's a Breaker Blade and a Summoner Emblem. You can Shimmer the Emblem, but you already have a Phoenix Blaster, so go get em.


The Mech bosses themselves don't drop weapons directly, but they drop crafting materials which the player has control over which weapons they make, if any.
Plantera drops a lot of weapons, but most of them get overshadowed due to the fact the entire post-Plantera stretch has so much gear that the most important Plantera drop is arguably the Seedler for players who wish to craft Zenith, which can be done later on. Alternatively, some players intend to farm her for The Axe, so they're bounnd to get the other drop they care about in the meantime.
Golem drops a ton of stuff, but people mostly want Eyes, Sun Stones, and Picksaws. This diluted loot pool combined with its relatively low difficulty and ease of getting spawn items leads to it being farmed harder than I farm Deathweed, and getting whatever item is wanted along the way.
Pumpkin/Frost Moon bosses are optional enemies that die in such large quantities that skilled players end up getting multiple copies of the item they wanted just a single one of.
Empress and Duke are bonus optional bosses that people often end up repeating just for their Wings, or they fight one of them a single time for their Expert drop and move on with their build.
Betsy is a boss that people end up ignoring, but is often repeatly farmed for her wings and Betsy's Wrath.. but also is from an event that drops its own currency that encourages you to repeat it to get special armor sets.
Lunatic Cultist is the subject of many many threads we've all been a part of so I'm not going to terrasplain this one to you.


So yeah, while the Underworld may not have gotten more difficult to deal with, the overworld has. The surface is one of the key areas to survey where the Hallow and Corrupt biome impacted. While you can just fight the boss again, some players may feel like they don't have enough time to do so because of biome spread, or some players may have only barely scraped by and aren't exactly excited to face the same boss again for what they may feel is their "starter" HM weapon, especially knowing that everything other than Firecracker is likely to be quickly replaced and Firecracker is only as much of a standout as it is because nothing else does what it does to our current knowledge.

I do agree that shimmerable WoF weapons aren't the most elegant solution and they set a bad precedent, but the WoF itself is already a bit of an outlier as far as the game is concerned since it opens up a lot of stuff really fast that, without proper world preparation, has to be addressed on the game's terms instead of when you're ready for it. The fact there is demand for control over WoF's weapon drop specifically while other bosses end up being a "oh well, guess I'll just fight it again" situation is indicative of something, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what since that is outside of my own skillset and without being able to recognize the what it is, I'm definitely not qualified to propose a solution that isn't "throw it into the Shimmer lol"
 
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Ranged: Ore repeaters
There’s also Blowgun too. That thing is easily obtainable in prehardmode and the darts you can easily get from the top of the underworld 30 seconds after the wall of flesh are defeated are notoriously amazing enough to basically convert blowgun into a hardmode weapon.
 
The primary difference between the Wall of Flesh compared to every other boss is the context around defeating it. There is an immediate, permanent, map-wide effect upon defeating the boss and the only other boss that does something similar is Cultist, who doesn't have any drops to begin with.

Bosses can be kinda boiled down to this:
Defeated King Slime? Good job, here's a pet for your town.
Defeated the Eye? It'll stop pestering you.
Defeated the evil boss? You can now make a better pickaxe. Try mining more stuff you couldn't break before.
Defeated Queen Bee? Make some room for the Witch Doctor. Didn't get the drop you wanted? No pressure, just fight her again.
Defeated Deerclops? .. what the heck is that thing doing here?
Defeated Skeletron? You can now enter the Dungeon. Take your time, it's not going anywhere. Didn't get Book of Skulls? Did you even want it?
Defeated the Wall of Flesh? There's now an entire new evil biome stretch as well as the Hallow being generated, also both of these biomes spread. Better find them! Oh, there are stronger enemies roaming the map too, so be careful! Here's hoping your Desert isn't evil now, or else you may have just lost it! I see you have Necro Armor on, here's a Breaker Blade and a Summoner Emblem. You can Shimmer the Emblem, but you already have a Phoenix Blaster, so go get em.


The Mech bosses themselves don't drop weapons directly, but they drop crafting materials which the player has control over which weapons they make, if any.
Plantera drops a lot of weapons, but most of them get overshadowed due to the fact the entire post-Plantera stretch has so much gear that the most important Plantera drop is arguably the Seedler for players who wish to craft Zenith, which can be done later on. Alternatively, some players intend to farm her for The Axe, so they're bounnd to get the other drop they care about in the meantime.
Golem drops a ton of stuff, but people mostly want Eyes, Sun Stones, and Picksaws. This diluted loot pool combined with its relatively low difficulty and ease of getting spawn items leads to it being farmed harder than I farm Deathweed, and getting whatever item is wanted along the way.
Pumpkin/Frost Moon bosses are optional enemies that die in such large quantities that skilled players end up getting multiple copies of the item they wanted just a single one of.
Empress and Duke are bonus optional bosses that people often end up repeating just for their Wings, or they fight one of them a single time for their Expert drop and move on with their build.
Betsy is a boss that people end up ignoring, but is often repeatly farmed for her wings and Betsy's Wrath.. but also is from an event that drops its own currency that encourages you to repeat it to get special armor sets.
Lunatic Cultist is the subject of many many threads we've all been a part of so I'm not going to terrasplain this one to you.


So yeah, while the Underworld may not have gotten more difficult to deal with, the overworld has. The surface is one of the key areas to survey where the Hallow and Corrupt biome impacted. While you can just fight the boss again, some players may feel like they don't have enough time to do so because of biome spread, or some players may have only barely scraped by and aren't exactly excited to face the same boss again for what they may feel is their "starter" HM weapon, especially knowing that everything other than Firecracker is likely to be quickly replaced and Firecracker is only as much of a standout as it is because nothing else does what it does to our current knowledge.

I do agree that shimmerable WoF weapons aren't the most elegant solution they set a very bad precedent, but the WoF itself is already a bit of an outlier as far as the game is concerned since it opens up a lot of stuff really fast that, without proper world preparation, has to be addressed on the game's terms instead of when you're ready for it. The fact there is demand for control over WoF's weapon drop specifically while other bosses end up being a "oh well, guess I'll just fight it again" situation is indicative of something, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what since that is outside of my own skillset and without being able to recognize the what it is, I'm definitely not qualified to propose a solution that isn't "throw it into the Shimmer lol"
1. holy **** this is a VERY in depth and well thought out response, thank you for explaining what i was thinking better than i did. 2. i agree that shimmering the items is the easiest way to resolve this issue, but i wanted to give an idea that was a little more seamless to normal gameplay.
 
I don't support this purely because if you made any changes to the obtainability of the WoF's drops, whether it be making him drop them all or making them shimmerable, the same change would have to be made to every boss in the game for consisntency. Please no one say that this wouldn't be the case because we all know that the community would be on it like a bunch of students on an unatended crate of beer. I hope I don't come off as toxic by saying this but, just change your class to suit the drop or just farm for some new items, because there are plenty of new ones after beating this boss and some of them are really easy to obtain. Also the underworld only gets like 2 new enemies one of which is uncommon and the other just has some more health and damage than it's pre-hardmode version, so it shouldn't be that hard to beat the WoF. Also, some of you may not agree with me on this, but it is very satisfying to farm a boss for ages and finally get the one drop you have been hoping for but I understand that some of you may prefer to rush the game instead of taking things slowly
 
what i don't understand about people saying that "if you make the wall of flesh weapons shimmerable, then you have to make all boss weapon drops shimmerable for consistency" is the fact that wall of flesh is one of the most annoying bosses to farm in the game, and is already pretty inconsistent itself

it's one of 3 bosses that requires interacting with a town npc to fight (and one of them is only because it's directly locked behind the other one)

it's one of 2 bosses that require you to kill them to survive the fight without save and quit, and i'm honestly not even sure if that works for wall of flesh

it was one of 2 bosses that remained active after killing every player or otherwise losing aggro in a world before being changed (although i don't think anyone will argue that queen bee "loses aggro" at any point)

unlike almost every other boss in the entire game, there is essentially a dedicated cooldown between wall of flesh fights as you wait for the guide to respawn, whereas the nocturnal/diurnal bosses only "cooldown" is waiting for the correct time in the day before you can summon them, and several bosses have no time restraints in the slightest, only needing to stockpile the materials needed to summon them. this means that while farming most bosses goes faster and faster as you progress, with the only upper bound being how fast you can summon the boss itself after killing them, once you get to the point where you can kill the wall of flesh before the guide respawns, you're essentially just doing nothing while waiting for the guide to show up. this also means that he's essentially a diurnal boss after killing him, as town npc's don't spawn at night

the only other 3 bosses in the entire game that you basically have to sit and twiddle your thumbs to wait for another shot at them is plantera, which has few absolutely pivotal drops, lunatic cultist, which has literally zero gameplay reason to farm, and skeletron (which is also the absolute worst to farm considering everything i said about wall of flesh prior also applies to skeletron, except for the fact that he can only be summoned at night, so you get exactly one shot per day to farm him), which has book of skulls, which nobody uses, so farming them isn't vital in most cases. this isn't the case with wall of flesh, which has actual drops that you should probably get, even if 3 of the 4 this suggestion concerns itself with aren't exactly game breaking.
 
what i don't understand about people saying that "if you make the wall of flesh weapons shimmerable, then you have to make all boss weapon drops shimmerable for consistency" is the fact that wall of flesh is one of the most annoying bosses to farm in the game, and is already pretty inconsistent itself

it's one of 3 bosses that requires interacting with a town npc to fight (and one of them is only because it's directly locked behind the other one)

it's one of 2 bosses that require you to kill them to survive the fight without save and quit, and i'm honestly not even sure if that works for wall of flesh

it was one of 2 bosses that remained active after killing every player or otherwise losing aggro in a world before being changed (although i don't think anyone will argue that queen bee "loses aggro" at any point)

unlike almost every other boss in the entire game, there is essentially a dedicated cooldown between wall of flesh fights as you wait for the guide to respawn, whereas the nocturnal/diurnal bosses only "cooldown" is waiting for the correct time in the day before you can summon them, and several bosses have no time restraints in the slightest, only needing to stockpile the materials needed to summon them. this means that while farming most bosses goes faster and faster as you progress, with the only upper bound being how fast you can summon the boss itself after killing them, once you get to the point where you can kill the wall of flesh before the guide respawns, you're essentially just doing nothing while waiting for the guide to show up. this also means that he's essentially a diurnal boss after killing him, as town npc's don't spawn at night

the only other 3 bosses in the entire game that you basically have to sit and twiddle your thumbs to wait for another shot at them is plantera, which has few absolutely pivotal drops, lunatic cultist, which has literally zero gameplay reason to farm, and skeletron (which is also the absolute worst to farm considering everything i said about wall of flesh prior also applies to skeletron, except for the fact that he can only be summoned at night, so you get exactly one shot per day to farm him), which has book of skulls, which nobody uses, so farming them isn't vital in most cases. this isn't the case with wall of flesh, which has actual drops that you should probably get, even if 3 of the 4 this suggestion concerns itself with aren't exactly game breaking.
You are right about the WoF being a unique case and I agree with most of the other stuff you said here, but I still maintain that the WoF shouldn't have its drops easily accessible from shimmer. This is because although you wouldn't have to make it so all bosses would drop all of their weapons or those weapons being easily cyclable through shimmer if this change was implemented, but the community would demand it even if the WoF is a much different case to the other bosses in the game. Also he isn't that hard to resummon if you just make a house in the underworld above lava to drop the guide from, and if you are waiting for him to respawn, why not farm for some hardmode equipment to make the fight a bit easier? I get that two of the four weapons that he drops are invalidated by better hardmode alternatives very quickly but tbh it really isn't that hard to get some decent hardmode equipment and just come back and try again once the guide has respawned.
 
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