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PC What Happened To Being Melee? (Read OP, Under Revisionary Scrutiny)

Percentage of your interest in this being expanded upon in later patches?


  • Total voters
    48

Muteness

Terrarian
When yoyos were introduced they didn't just give melee another option, they also gave an entirely new play-style. Now the reason that I thought it'd be best to keep this post-hard mode is because I'm not sure it's balanced for early game aggression. In one of the most idle outcomes this too could be a full length themed weapon set.

I was just expecting to make swords actually swords but another play style would be awesome too..
The problem with that is people clearly don't use them often enough, myself included. This is because you put yourself through difficulty compared to melee weapons with greater range but for no pay-off and probably a longer time to kill things for your troubles. Even if hitting with the sprite had higher damage the fact is you can't continuously hit enemies as fast on account of dodging between and lining up for your next attack. That's why I suggested an additional mechanic to reward the player for putting themselves through inconveniace whilst hopefully maintaining balance.

Also at the time of me last editing this:
WOOT! Two votes for 100% support, HYPE!
 
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Muteness

Terrarian
I'm inexperienced to Terraria forums and forums in general so I guess I could have had far too high expectations for an open-ended clause for discussion.

Now the only counter arguments for what else could be done to improve melee is simply more of the same OR add a little extra to what we have. If it were that simple then wouldn't it of happened already? The devs release 1.3 with an additional type of melee weapon, have you ever questioned why? It's speculated that it was to give us an alternative type of melee combat for late game that wasn't a projectile-shooty kind of weapon.

If that's true then I see it as good as confirming that melee is in need of better and more versatile forms of weaponry for development.

Now I'm not very optimistic about how many are actually following this thread but on the off chance that there are a few of you; I'd like to prompt so further action, and the only way I know how to do that is to bring up something highly controversial.

Any and everyone is welcomed to suggesting an alternative to my idea. If you can think of something better to AND are able to validate your reasoning then I'll concede and add your idea to the opening post for everyone to consider. This was always my plan to either list or replace the OP if I saw something deserving.

The following is a pending idea that may end up being added here if no one else can suggest or improve the quoter we have.

-Edit-

Added to opening post under "Second Concept".
 
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Muteness

Terrarian
Still no external suggestions from my own? This is incredible given how many hundreds of ideas crop up on here every, every uh... it happens a lot, okay?

I'll probably think of a third suggestion before anyone else comes up with their first. Just in case no one noticed; the OP has been changed again, there's new content if you haven't seen the Polearm yet.
 

Muteness

Terrarian
Both of these concepts would be fantastic additions to the game.
You'd think, but not according to most people who've seen them so far. I recommended that one weapon type be added because I don't want to over saturate melee weapon choices compared to the magic, ranged and summoner. and throwing, if you can even count it

Even though people seem to have problems with something that literally only adds to the game and takes nothing away; they're apparently having just as much trouble fathoming why as I am because they don't tell us their reasoning/logic.

To all those who aren't intrested, can you at least state what would make it more intresting?
 

Pseudoname

Terrarian
I'd at least like the idea of seeing melee weapons having bonuses like "can do a charge(dash) attack" or "swings have a chance to neutralize projectiles" or something rather than only ever just "spams projectiles like a mage"
somehow
so seems good(or at least interesting)
 
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Muteness

Terrarian
OK, OK, OK, OK... So this just came to me... How many of you are familiar with Dragonball series? I'm thinking... Goku's power pole...

So it'd be a little similar to the yoyo in that it extends to a max distance BUT its length isn't modified by attack speed, and it has a minimum length for held position. It'd feel different to the yoyo because it doesn't go around corners or reach the edge of the screen. The positives it has compared to the yoyo however is it moves you around and since you have a limited control over how far it extends you can propel yourself small or large distances. Speed modifies affects how fast it reaches 0 blocks towards the mouse, so more attack speed means faster reaction time for extending the weapon and doing "pole jumping" quicker. It isn't an instance sprite like swinging a sword.

Did I explain that clear enough?

I think I'll add this to the OP, hopefully shorten/neaten the explanation.
If anyone could find short video/gif/compilations to the power pole or things like it that'd be great!
 
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Tyrax Lightning

Terrarian
The funny thing is all melee players use their mobility to run away and shoot an enemy :dryadnaughty:
& then are we still Melee? Plus some of us are not RL Ninjas & some of us RL Peeps have slow Reflexes & Fast Thinking Speed & aren't awesome at stuff like dodging & are more the muscle-headed & aggressive type. That's why we don't have what it takes to be a Ranged, Caster, or Summoner. It saddens me that there comes a time in this game where anything that works like the Butcher's Chainsaw & such becomes impossible to use on Bosses without it being suicide aside from Normal Mode Destroyer. :( (Especially when i'm pondering the Butcher's Chainsaw as a possible final weapon cause my Fav Weapon is Axes & this & the Possessed Hatchet are as close to it as I can get.)

My idea: I WANT MORE DAMN BATTLE AXES IN THIS GAME!!! SCREW YOU YA DAMN SPOILED ROTTEN BRAT SWORDS!!! *Cough* Oops, sorry, Swords can get on my damn nerves at times & I can sometimes need to vent... *Glares evilly at the Meowmere* Anyway, My fav combat type tends to be 2 Handed Battle Axe kinda weapons & doing fierce Melee Damage while still being able to take hits at least ok. As such, my idea: Battle Axes could be added that have size comparable to the Blade of Grass & Breaker Blade that also have a sort of extra 'cleaving shockwave' that does further hits & damage around the Axe Head to take the cleaving action up to 11 while adding a bit extra attack reach while still being more Melee Range & less 'gun that looks like swinging a melee weapon'. Ever play Sonic the Hedgehog 3 with that PBAoE attack Sonic can do around himself in mid-jump with an additional button press? Think kinda like that working around the Axe Head passively & with a bit more radius & working for the duration of the swing, & with the 'shockwave' component being shaped like a crescent similar to the Axe Blade itself & in front of it a little. Hope this isn't confusing, not sure how I could describe it better. If I could ever get any RL time for it, maybe I could even try to make a cheap crappy GIF example. (How do ya peeps make those GIFs of Terraria stuff, like those GIFs on the Wiki demonstrating the weapon working & such like that?)

Another idea is why are there so few sources of Bleeds & other such DoTs for us Players? If we could cleave up the boss, dart out while those do work, pick the right time to dart in, cleave stuff up, dart out again, rinse & repeat & such like that... that'd give us Melees some fun too with our up close action. Frankly our Melee Swings should hit plenty harder then the damage per hit from the other Class's weapons too to account for our more 'in yo face' combat method too, our higher risk should be plenty rewarding or it's no wonder why people would see no reason to do anything but fight at range. Plus being able to do anything other then die in a Bosses' Face should not be impossible, but it's ok to be able to do it only for some period of time, no disrespect for the Bosses intended. Having no choice but to stay between 2/3 of a Screen & 1 1/2 Screen away from a Boss or else be committing suicide's not my idea of a good time as a Melee. That's broke.

Also, fyi, some of us Melees have crap RL Reflexes, so though I have no qualms with a 'Dust Style Block mechanic', I hope I can help with ideas for fun factor for peeps like me that such at reflexes & love stuff like 2 Handed Axes. :)
 

Muteness

Terrarian

I see you have a lot to say about the matter. I see no harm in something simular to what you suggested, and I understood what you meant with your description: A secondary click during the normal slow swing animation, giving two forms of attack.

I can certainly see how that'd be fun to exicute, though it sounded to me like it'd need open spaces to really give the player an advantage, which I could see as being a problem unless we expand upon it. Needing half a screen worth to make a point blank weapon viable won't help those underground mining. I'm not sure how I could expand upon your idea but if you can think of ways to adapt it for tight spaces that'd be great.

To be honest I didn't think about how many suggestions I may end up featuring. Something I'm certain of though is that I'll made notes of everything important discussed here and feature them in a quote reference to make it as easy as possible to give those who don't read the entire thread a means of joining in. Now I know the thread isn't very long but I read a 17 page one through before and it's difficult to do that every single time for every single thread. I know that you read this one from beginning to end based upon likes you gave, thanks for that by the way!

Anyway, if your idea can be made to provide mechanics of defending yourself in more situations then I could list that as an option on the topic. The reason being that niche weapons are nice but melee weapons should be anti-personal, a method you want to get up-close-and-personal with, right? There's that and the fact I can see players not using this early game enough, by late they're comparing weapon collections to Last Prism. It'd be a shame to add something new but not with a practical means of using it often. From what I understand it's only for invasions and boss fights?
 
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Tyrax Lightning

Terrarian
Truthfully I wasn't thinking so much about 'mechanics of defending yourself' cause doing damage with Melee is what I love doing the most, using Axes of course. I even go so far as to prefer the Menacing Prefix as my fav to use. I keep hearing that Warding is supposed to be required for Expert Mode, & this puzles me. Warding only provides 3/4 of its Stat Power in effectiveness but Menacing provides 4/4 of it, Warding seems the weakest of the Prefixes to me. Even the strongest Prefix for Move Speed seems stronger looking in a Mode where you have no choice but to not be fail at Dodging in order to succeed... :confused:

I may need to play more to understand. As of the time of this Post, i'm up to having beat the Brain of Chluthu & have prep to do to fight the Queen Bee & Skeletron. Atm i'm farming Meteors though to build up my Base & get more organized. Whenever I find that Fiberglass Fishing Pole in the Jungle I should also get started on Fishing as well.
 

Muteness

Terrarian
Truthfully I wasn't thinking so much about 'mechanics of defending yourself' cause doing damage with Melee is what I love doing
There's an argument to be made that's part of why we can't get into close quarters.
Even the strongest Prefix for Move Speed seems stronger looking in a Mode where you have no choice but to not be fail at Dodging in order to succeed...
Getting close enough to hit things with our melee weapon's sprite held by our characters but also being able to avoid in coming attacks is exactly why it's not worth doing with what we currently have as far as swords and spears are concerned. Boomerang and Yoyos aren't exactly in the spirit of melee like the legendary Copper Short Sword. I think I need to add some clarity that this is looking into taking the short sword, giving it a great attack arc and throwing in an exciting mechanic to use it, but you know; without manaless projectile flinging.
 

Muteness

Terrarian
Pole changed:
Added three options for voting on how suggestions should apply if implimented, two votes allowed.
 

Muteness

Terrarian
PHEW!!!

Alright... I finally edited it all, it was a #### to do, but I got there in the end. The Cliff Notes of Discussions So Far is now up and available to read in the OP.

If you guys think I missed anything then message me directly and I'll go over it with you. Bear in mind that I've purposely left out some content because I felt it wasn't relevant. If you want your piece seen then make a case because it's important that we're able to go over the things with merit. I'm just trying to help people look passed things without.

To everyone new that wants to contribute to the discussion I STRONGLY recommend you review the cliff notes before commenting if you want to make informative views of opinion on the subject. Remember to you can discuss your issues before voting. Things are currently subject to change and this is a collaborative project.
 

Muteness

Terrarian
Alright boys & girls, another exciting update to the OP! I've added a video with what I thought were the best examples of the concepts I posted. If you find them confusing please let me know so I'm aware if change is needed. Also if you think you've found a better example than the ones I have in that video please post it so I may compare.
 

layman9

Brain of Cthulhu
I dont understand this thread or the poll with it at all... and I'm not spending 20 minutes reading through every single word, because its so overwhelming I still won't understand it.
 

Nutella Fairy

Skeletron Prime
I hate reading through all these long replies, so if it's been said before, don't mention it. (I DID read the op though)
So, this is why i'm against all these melee nerf threads.

"Melee has so much defense" But nobody complains about ranged weapons and their obscurely high crit. chance.
"Melee has no cost" So? Ranged has the infinite musket pouch, and ammo is really more of a convenience rather than a nuisance. We have magic cuffs, and insane magic weapons deserve to have costs anyway.
"BUT VAMPIRE KNIVES!!" One weapon can be easily nerfed.
"It's not melee" Toxicarp, Harpoon, and Piranha gun are TOATALLY ranged. Nettle Burst, Vilethorn, and Bubble Gun are TOATALLY Magic.

Trust me, out of all the classes i've played, melee was by far the hardest for me. I don't get why I see people using Solar armor over Vortex.
 

Muteness

Terrarian
melee nerf threads.
You've made a grave misunderstanding. This isn't about asking for melee to be nerf, it doesn't even have to change a single existing item or mechanic in the game. This thread is about suggestions to make melee more fun/interesting to play through adding new weapon choices.

Trust me, out of all the classes i've played, melee was by far the hardest for me.
Melee was the easiest for me, but no one is questioning how hard or easy melee is, we're remarking that shooting projectiles via swords for no cost feels boring to some of us and maybe weapons that add a challenge would make the combat more enjoyable as an alternative option.

I dont understand this thread or the poll with it at all... and I'm not spending 20 minutes reading through every single word, because its so overwhelming I still won't understand it.
Was there really a need to share that with us? If the subject doesn't intrest you that's fair enough. I don't want to shorten the thread because people seem to be making misunderstandings as it is.
 

DJEN

Terrarian
Frankly speaking, a solution similar to the case of the psycho knife's effect combined with the combo meter concept would be the most ideal one.

For example, the Terra Blade would start of as a typical pew-pew sword, but, as the combos accumulate(around 30 or so), the firing rate and the damage of the projectiles would decrease, but the sword itself would begin to glow and have its damage and critical strike chance increased.
Even more, the user would get a immense buff in defense as well.

(flails should act more like yoyos as well, being swung by the movement of your cursor, but not stay on it)
 
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