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PC Why I think NPC Unhappiness and how Pylons are locked are a HUGE mistake

Dungeonbubble

Skeletron
You'll need to scatter your NPCs out for that, though. Just don't see why this is locked behind one way of building.. nothing else in the game you can earn/unlock is based on build preference other than NPCs selling certain items in certain biomes, and that's already kind of not fun having to do, since it's more of a hassle, and with pylon lock, a build restriction. Having them craftable and more accessible would include everyone- those who like to spread NPCs out and those who do not.
So you're saying that the pylons promote one way of building over another. That't true. Just like Zenith promotes the melee class over any other. See this comparison makes sense because there are many other things like this in the game. You could argue that the corruption is worse than crimson, but they have their ups and downs. Terraria has many things like this and if they made everything "balanced" and "satisfy every player" the game would be bland and the same every playthrough. Imagine if the corruption and crimson where just aesthetic differences. Or imagine if every classes armour and damage where equal. The pylons system does promote spreading out your NPCs, but it doesn't stop people from building whatever they want. You can copy and paste your main village into a 1.4 village and make some boxes in different biomes, or big villages too. Building a big central village isn't a way to build, it's a way to play the game. And there is no problem with that. (Of course excluding the pesky shopping penalty with keeping your NPCs unhappy)
 

Snickerbobble

The Painter
So you're saying that the pylons promote one way of building over another. That't true. Just like Zenith promotes the melee class over any other. See this comparison makes sense because there are many other things like this in the game. You could argue that the corruption is worse than crimson, but they have their ups and downs. Terraria has many things like this and if they made everything "balanced" and "satisfy every player" the game would be bland and the same every playthrough. Imagine if the corruption and crimson where just aesthetic differences. Or imagine if every classes armour and damage where equal. The pylons system does promote spreading out your NPCs, but it doesn't stop people from building whatever they want. You can copy and paste your main village into a 1.4 village and make some boxes in different biomes, or big villages too. Building a big central village isn't a way to build, it's a way to play the game. And there is no problem with that. (Of course excluding the pesky shopping penalty with keeping your NPCs unhappy)
Again that comparison doesn't really make sense since more free use of pylons after their initial unlock allows more possibilities with building. Gear is a totally separate matter from build style. I prefer Corruption, but the game lets you pick which evil you want. You can pick Corruption, you can pick Crimson, you can pick random.. and you can get the other evil's seeds from Dryad in the Graveyard biome. The game gives you CHOICE here, with pylons, you either get them by how you build, or you do not. They also try to balance the game so every class is just as viable.. which is arguably "every class doing the same damage," or roughly. I really don't see how this comparison holds at all to be honest.

Pylons make it easier for those who spread out their NPCs to access them, but the problem is locking pylons by NEEDING NPCs nearby them, since those who prefer to keep them together cannot use them. To follow your comparison, imagine if only melee users could use recall potions and the magic mirror and upgrades. That would influence the player to stick with melee. Magic Mirror is usable by all, and Pylons should be usable by all as well.

Zenith is the most powerful weapon in the game even used by rangers and mages. It's a melee weapon but with that much power, it's practically classless. They could add more Zenith-tier stuff it they want, but I don't see how this relates to build style influence. You can still wreck stuff with endgame mage/ranger stuff.
 
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Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
those who prefer to keep them together cannot use them

But they can.

Every player has NPCs they use frequently and NPCs they ignore. They can send the ignored NPCs to power the Pylons. This is just a matter of resource management. The desire to keep NPCs together is a desire for convenient access to NPCs that matter. The rest are just decoration.

Indeed, at present, there are a lot of NPCs which, when they spawn, you basically go "meh." Pylons being powered by NPCs makes you want NPCs to spawn, because even the most uninteresting, worthless NPCs can still be useful.

To follow your comparison, imagine if only melee users could use recall potions and the magic mirror and upgrades. That would influence the player to stick with melee. Magic Mirror is usable by all, and Pylons should be usable by all as well.

Imagine if teleporters could only be used by people who use wires. Oh wait, that's already true. You buy Pylons from NPCs. It is hardly unreasonable to think that Pylons might be associated with NPCs.
 

Dungeonbubble

Skeletron
Again that comparison doesn't really make sense since more free use of pylons after their initial unlock allows more possibilities with building. Gear is a totally separate matter from build style. I prefer Corruption, but the game lets you pick which evil you want. You can pick Corruption, you can pick Crimson, you can pick random.. and you can get the other evil's seeds from Dryad in the Graveyard biome. The game gives you CHOICE here, with pylons, you either get them by how you build, or you do not. They also try to balance the game so every class is just as viable.. which is arguably "every class doing the same damage," or roughly. I really don't see how this comparison holds at all to be honest.

Pylons make it easier for those who spread out their NPCs to access them, but the problem is locking pylons by NEEDING NPCs nearby them, since those who prefer to keep them together cannot use them. To follow your comparison, imagine if only melee users could use recall potions and the magic mirror and upgrades. That would influence the player to stick with melee. Magic Mirror is usable by all, and Pylons should be usable by all as well.

Zenith is the most powerful weapon in the game even used by rangers and mages. It's a melee weapon but with that much power, it's practically classless. They could add more Zenith-tier stuff it they want, but I don't see how this relates to build style influence. You can still wreck stuff with endgame mage/ranger stuff.
I think we can agree to disagree here. Anyway to place pylons down you need NPCs near them so even if the problem is that you want to keep NPCs near you, you can just use the pylons to get to them. It's actually a win win with the pylons. You can build whatever you want but you just need to spread out your NPCs.
 
Again that comparison doesn't really make sense since more free use of pylons after their initial unlock allows more possibilities with building. Gear is a totally separate matter from build style. I prefer Corruption, but the game lets you pick which evil you want. You can pick Corruption, you can pick Crimson, you can pick random.. and you can get the other evil's seeds from Dryad in the Graveyard biome. The game gives you CHOICE here, with pylons, you either get them by how you build, or you do not. They also try to balance the game so every class is just as viable.. which is arguably "every class doing the same damage," or roughly. I really don't see how this comparison holds at all to be honest.

Pylons make it easier for those who spread out their NPCs to access them, but the problem is locking pylons by NEEDING NPCs nearby them, since those who prefer to keep them together cannot use them. To follow your comparison, imagine if only melee users could use recall potions and the magic mirror and upgrades. That would influence the player to stick with melee. Magic Mirror is usable by all, and Pylons should be usable by all as well.

Zenith is the most powerful weapon in the game even used by rangers and mages. It's a melee weapon but with that much power, it's practically classless. They could add more Zenith-tier stuff it they want, but I don't see how this relates to build style influence. You can still wreck stuff with endgame mage/ranger stuff.
I believe it is fine that it is locked away. As Dungeonbubble said earlier, certain things promotes one playstyle over another. It's in a LOT of things. Even the creation of the world has it. Oh, you want to play a normal world? Well, then you're outta luck on getting any of the Expert Mode accessories and extra Accessory slot. Or Master Mode's Relics or Pets and Mounts? I don't hear you complaining about Master Mode essentially forcing players to play on that mode if they want those things. Just like all things in a Sandbox game, if you don't want to play a certain style, you will be out on some things. It's just the way things are.

Now, the Happiness penalty to sell/buy prices are problematic and I would love it to go away. But it hasn't hindered my play all that much since I'm a Loot Goblin that mines literally every piece of ore I can find.
 

Chilly Dango_Tex

Skeletron Prime
Why not just removing the punishment part?
Y'know, if you want to "ignore" the NPC happiness system, then good for you, but if you follow it properly, you get rewards (Such as the lower prizes.)
I have to agree with you, the NPC system is limiting lots of possibilities, specially for those who enjoy building, or experimenting with useful things.
But, we've got to give it to them, although the NPC happiness was a small change, it was also one of the biggest additions terraria has had in a really long time, since it affected an area that remained untouched for a really long time, which are town NPCs.
So removing the whole package might actually take away a bit of the charm, but it could definitely have some changes.
(And I love your idea about quests! Sadly, I don't think that will make it into the base game, At least we got some mods out there that are working really hard to give us such a gift :dryadgrin: )
 

Snickerbobble

The Painter
I believe it is fine that it is locked away. As Dungeonbubble said earlier, certain things promotes one playstyle over another. It's in a LOT of things. Even the creation of the world has it. Oh, you want to play a normal world? Well, then you're outta luck on getting any of the Expert Mode accessories and extra Accessory slot. Or Master Mode's Relics or Pets and Mounts? I don't hear you complaining about Master Mode essentially forcing players to play on that mode if they want those things. Just like all things in a Sandbox game, if you don't want to play a certain style, you will be out on some things. It's just the way things are.

Now, the Happiness penalty to sell/buy prices are problematic and I would love it to go away. But it hasn't hindered my play all that much since I'm a Loot Goblin that mines literally every piece of ore I can find.
Those are rewards for completing difficult tasks.

Pylons go against what people have built for nearly a decade now- towns. Building boxes further apart isn't a challenge, it's a nuisance for those who prefer to build towns and castles.

Also I don't think there's anything stopping a player from making a new expert/master world to beat bosses for the bonus loot. AFAIK, only the extra slots become unusable in lower difficulty modes. You can still enjoy your pets and relics in normal worlds.
 

CDR_Xavier

Skeletron Prime
Well, if you are not into the pylon thing, you will sure think its bad to have the base spread out -- its so "inconvenient", right?
well, that will be you without pylon network.
If you had the pylon network, you might as well think twice before saying that.
Im pre-hard and I had jungle, forest, ocean, desert and (rather optional as its next to my minecart-hellevator) cavern. I built a 20*20 peralstone square in hardmode and get the hallow pylon. Now I can get to most important places as I wish with two clicks. Well, except for during events.
And building good houses arent that bad -- you can stick with hay-made matchbox and improve it when you had better materials. Block swap is there to be used.

The reason they implement npc happiness is so that players can get entertained building fancy houses for the npc. I am not a good builder but I don't build the 3*10 npc prison either. I build 10*5 matchbox rooms.
And I think the bit about wanting to live live in sparse area is just ... perhaps something the devs drummed up.


What is master mode? It's just a property flag set to the world so that the game will be significantly harder and the drops are cooler. I do not think converting a regular world between master/non-master have any issues.
I'm not too sure why the majority of people like fighting things so much. my character had 118 hours on it and it had just entered hardmode with destroyer down.
 
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