Weapons & Equip Zenith is OP af.

Is Zenith OP


  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
There's one glaring problem with the Zenith that I can't abide by: it's nearly impossible to balance mods around. Calamity and Thorium both have endgame content, and while admittedly Calamity has plenty of weapons that far surpass Zenith, the problem there is Zenith allows you to basically skip a good chunk of Clam's progression. Meanwhile, it would absolutely trivialize the one piece of of post-ML content that Thorium has, and there's not even equivalents for other classes to rebalance such progression around unless the mods themselves add it in. There's also the issue that Zenith really requires no thought to actually use. It's practically a screen clear.
Thorium has only one post-ML boss, and after that you're back in the same situation as vanilla, Zenith being the final weapon - only now you get a badass chariot to fly around in and similarly powerful weapons for magic, summons, and guns/bows to play with as well. As for Calamity... I don't know why you're so worried. That mod kneecaps anything that even looks like it might be more powerful than its own content. Zenith will just end up getting nerfed into the ground like all the other strong weapons in vanilla, unless by some fluke the Cala devs elect to be merciful and integrate Zenith into the crafting tree of one of their developer weapons.
 
Considering you can only really use the Zenith for post-game grinding, I think it's power is fine. That said, I do agree that the other 3 classes shoudl have similar: Buff the Last Prism, make Celebration Mk 2 equivalent, and maybe an ultimate Whip for summoner? I think an ultimate Minion would remove all challenge.
As if Zenith doesn't remove all challenge?
 
I also agree that Zenith needs no nerf because it's a Post-Game weapon, and that a better alternative would be to make equivalents for the other classes. The only problem there is: what exactly defines the standard for equality between each class? All of the classes without the Zenith involved are by no means necessarily equal or balanced in the long-term anyways, and the issues with each class are all unique, and that's only scratching the surface. We have to remember that the builds for each class are tailored to compensate for weaknesses and maximize efficiency, and by the time we reach the endgame- the point in time where we'd actually get the Zenith or something equal to it, we would definitely have a high-end build no matter what the class. The most important thing about each class is not what kind of damage it does, but rather the compromises we have to make in order to actually use them. Ranger, Mage, and Summoner all have different flaws from Melee, none of which a mere weapon can solve. Zenith worked for Melee because it literally closes the distance issue, but whatever would work for the other classes, I'd say it's most likely not going to be new weapons.

I don't know what could work for Mages. There's already a myriad of powerful spells with exceptional range, and there've always been builds centered around reducing the cost of Mana and automatically refilling Mana with the Mana Flower. Mages could use something more for their defenses, and I could say the same of Summoners too. They're the most fragile classes and they already have enough firepower. Firepower is not the issue, not with spells like Lunar Flare and Last Prism, or with Summons like the Terraprisma and Stardust Dragon. What would work best would be something that makes being a Mage more durable and sustainable.

As for Rangers, the biggest deficit they have is that no matter what, they'll have to keep mining for more materials to use for ammo. Maybe an accessory that combines all the Quiver Accessories into one, resulting in a new Quiver that creates a special kind of arrow, infinite in number? Bullets and even Rockets could get the same treatment. Rangers are not lacking for power or range. It's always a matter of accuracy and supply.

I wouldn't mind if they added a Railgun like the ones in Metal Gear Solid though, but that's just me being self-indulgent, not really contributing.
 
I also agree that Zenith needs no nerf because it's a Post-Game weapon, and that a better alternative would be to make equivalents for the other classes. The only problem there is: what exactly defines the standard for equality between each class? All of the classes without the Zenith involved are by no means necessarily equal or balanced in the long-term anyways, and the issues with each class are all unique, and that's only scratching the surface. We have to remember that the builds for each class are tailored to compensate for weaknesses and maximize efficiency, and by the time we reach the endgame- the point in time where we'd actually get the Zenith or something equal to it, we would definitely have a high-end build no matter what the class. The most important thing about each class is not what kind of damage it does, but rather the compromises we have to make in order to actually use them. Ranger, Mage, and Summoner all have different flaws from Melee, none of which a mere weapon can solve. Zenith worked for Melee because it literally closes the distance issue, but whatever would work for the other classes, I'd say it's most likely not going to be new weapons.

I don't know what could work for Mages. There's already a myriad of powerful spells with exceptional range, and there've always been builds centered around reducing the cost of Mana and automatically refilling Mana with the Mana Flower. Mages could use something more for their defenses, and I could say the same of Summoners too. They're the most fragile classes and they already have enough firepower. Firepower is not the issue, not with spells like Lunar Flare and Last Prism, or with Summons like the Terraprisma and Stardust Dragon. What would work best would be something that makes being a Mage more durable and sustainable.

As for Rangers, the biggest deficit they have is that no matter what, they'll have to keep mining for more materials to use for ammo. Maybe an accessory that combines all the Quiver Accessories into one, resulting in a new Quiver that creates a special kind of arrow, infinite in number? Bullets and even Rockets could get the same treatment. Rangers are not lacking for power or range. It's always a matter of accuracy and supply.

I wouldn't mind if they added a Railgun like the ones in Metal Gear Solid though, but that's just me being self-indulgent, not really contributing.
So you’re plan of equality is pretty much to have warrior with 4x the dps of the other classes, but it’s okay because mages and summoners can have the defense of a warrior and rangers no longer have to do a little work to get ammo? :red: that. Everyone should get a weapon
 
So you’re plan of equality is pretty much to have warrior with 4x the dps of the other classes, but it’s okay because mages and summoners can have the defense of a warrior and rangers no longer have to do a little work to get ammo? :red: that. Everyone should get a weapon

First off, be civil. Second off, not all classes are made equal. Just making new weapons wouldn't work because it doesn't have the full effect of balancing out the flaws of their respective classes. Equality isn't really feasible because all classes are inherently different and unique. Balance on the other hand, is possible. And the DPS is hardly relevant anymore because again: it's post-game.
 
Zenith is designed to be overpowered. You have to farm moon lord to get it, as well as collect lots of other high power swords. There's no balance around end game because there is no content to use the weapons on. It doesn't trivialize moon lord because it isn't obtainiable before moonlord.. that's like saying the influx waver trivializes the eye of cthulhu. of course it does, it's not designed to be used in that part of the game.
I would love if they added a special super-weapon for each of the other classes. I do feel like there is a bit of melee-favoritism in effect and sure I feel like i have been slighted. But the end-game super weapon is probably designed to be disproportionately powerful, if I had to guess. It's not like they didn't playtest it.
 
I think it needs a bit a nerf, but not by too much. It's a post-Moon Lord weapon made from so many different swords, including two other post-Moon Lord swords. I think it makes sense for it to be extremely powerful, but maybe it could do with it being dialed down a bit.
 
How about this:

Let's change it's recipe, mechanic (to the point of removing any projectile) and generally nerf it down to the ground just for the kicks. May as well add "70% said it's balanced" to the tooltip. And then reintroduce it with the new name and sprite as a Master Mode reward, where it rightfully belongs.

Thoughts?
 
How about this:

Let's change it's recipe, mechanic (to the point of removing any projectile) and generally nerf it down to the ground just for the kicks. May as well add "70% said it's balanced" to the tooltip. And then reintroduce it with the new name and sprite as a Master Mode reward, where it rightfully belongs.

Thoughts?
You're joking, right?

Do I have to explain just how bad that idea is, or did you already know that even before you made the post?
 
You're joking, right?

Do I have to explain just how bad that idea is, or did you already know that even before you made the post?
Yeah, explain. It's still better idea than Melee having sniper range weapon w/o Mana cost. And it's easier to obtain than comparatively inferior Terraprisma.
 
Yeah, explain. It's still better idea than Melee having sniper range weapon w/o Mana cost. And it's easier to obtain than comparatively inferior Terraprisma.
First of all, the main reason this weapon is so powerful because it's post-Moonlord. What did you expect from a sword that requires the Moonlord to die multiple times, plus requiring many different swords from different stages of the game? At that point there's not really any "higher threat" that would make the Zenith too overpowered in its stage.

Second, the Zenith got its name from the same word, which means "the highest point reached by a celestial or other object" (according to Google).
In short, the Zenith is the most powerful sword in the base game, so it being the "highest point (AKA highest tier sword)" would fit the weapon knowing its potential.
Changing it is most likely a bad idea.

Third, every current Master mode drop is either a pet or a mount. Besides the Toy Tank, none of these cosmetic drops deal any damage. So why would the Zenith, a melee weapon, break such a pattern? Sure, Master Mode is tough (despite there being only stat changes for the bosses), but the exclusive items are for cosmetic use only. Plus this would make obtaining the Zenith easier then how its currently obtained.

Fourth, the only reason the Terraprisma is hard to obtain is because the boss that it drops from oneshots you at the time the boss has to be fought to obtain the summon weapon. It may be weaker then the Zenith, sure, but it's proven quite powerful and stands as a good alternative to summon weapons obtained after it (even supposedly being more powerful then the Stardust Dragon with the right setup). Also, you only have to kill the boss once at day to obtain the Terraprisma compared to killing the Moonlord at least twice just to get two ingredients for the Zenith. You also need twelve more swords, five of them combining into one, and a third of those twelve swords are obtained after the mech bosses.
Have you actually tried crafting the Zenith, or are you just saying it's easier to obtain just 'cause?

I think the Zenith is better off staying where it is, without needing any crazy nerfs or lame tooltips. Deal with it, because I doubt it will ever be changed in your favor.
 
I feel like last prism is the most OP weapon in the game, as you get it from just moonlord. As you have to go out of your way to get most of the swords for zenith
 
The Zenith (and all endgame gear, for that matter) doesn't need balancing aside from giving all classes equal treatment. Balancing isn't a concern because nothing is meant to be a threat to you anymore.

"but what about nebula armor's nerf?" You may ask. The reason for that is because it made a better tank armor than solar flare armor, and that was ridiculous and went against the developer's vision for both armors.

The Zenith doesn't need alterations, Melee just shouldn't have literally twice as many post-moon lord weapons as everyone else.
 
Last edited:
How about balancing mods around the base game?
That’s what some mods try to do, but I have yet to see any succeed. Thorium is the only one that came close, and even then it failed to do that. (an example being most minions from it crippling your total damage with i-frames even if they shouldn’t be)
 
Back
Top Bottom