Weapons & Equip Endless X Quiver/ Endless X Pouch

Should this be implimented?

  • Yes

  • Some thing(s) needs to be changed (reply)


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Toryx

Terrarian
With the existence of the Endless Quiver and the Endless Musket Pouch, I am suggesting that there should also be and endless ammo supply for other variants of ammo.

Now, I know this has likely been suggested before, and denied due to the power of the other types of ammo. However, I would like to go further into the actual cost of these ammo supplies and present a better comparison of their cost to power ratio.

Lets use the Quiver for example:

An Endless Quiver is crafted at a Crystal Ball with 3996 (4 full stacks of) wooden arrows. Each Wooden Arrow takes 1/25 of a block of Stone and 1/25 of a block of Wood to make, which means that 3996 Wooden Arrows actually only takes just under 160 blocks of Wood and 160 blocks of Stone to make. Pretty easy to acquire after you have a Crystal ball.

Costs:
160 Wood
160 Stone

If an Endless Quiver that used Flaming Arrows were to be made, it would likely require 3996 flaming arrows. The crafting cost for Flaming Arrows gets a bit more complicated. First, you require 160 Wood and 160 Stone to make 3996 Wooden Arrows, and after that, just under 400 torches to make those arrows into flaming ones. Each torch takes 1/3 of a piece of Gel and 1/3 of a block of Wood to make. Which means that you'll need an additional 134 Wood and Gel to craft it. A bit harder to acquire, similar to how Flaming Arrows are, in general, a bit harder to Acquire than Wooden arrows.

Costs:
294 Wood
160 Stone
134 Gel

Now, if we were to have an Endless Quiver that used Luminite Arrows, the cost would actually objectively increase, but relative to the player, decrease dramatically. 1 Luminite Bar costs 4 Luminite to make, and will yield 333 Luminite Arrows. To make 3996 Luminite Arrows, you would need 12 bars of Luminite, which is 48 pieces of Luminite.

Now hold on there. You can get all that just from 1 defeat of Moon Lord.

Well, yes. Although relative to the player, this is very cheap, it is actually not when looking at it from an objective point of view. As the player progresses through the game, s/he gains stronger, faster, and deadlier pieces of equipment. Relative to the player, all the equipment is pretty easy to acquire (except the hardmode ore equipment and chlorophyte equipment). However, ask someone who just started out to get Molten Armor, and they will most likely not be able to do so. Objectively, it's pretty difficult to get equipment. However, if we compare the difficulty of acquisition to a player who has equipment of that point of progress in the game, we see that most, if not all weapons are pretty easy to acquire. Need a spear? Go underground. Need a projectile sword? Look for shrines or floating islands. And so on.

Although some may argue that fancy ammo is just an option, that melee also has flasks, but doesn't need them to do damage, there is a major point that they overlook. Flasks do not alter the damage of melee weapons, but only add a status effect. Ammo, on the other hand, increases the damage of ranged weapons. A venom arrow, even without the venom, will deal more damage than a wooden arrow fired from the same weapon.

Overall, as the game progresses, the equipment of players progress as well. To improve the progression of ranged players, I suggest that endless quivers and ammo pouches for all types of ammo are implimented and are available to be crafted at the crystal ball for the same cost - 4 entire stacks - of the respective ammunition. Ammo for other types of ammo consuming equipment (with the exception of ammo that can only be used by a single weapon, the clentaminator, and the coin gun [you know why]) should also be added as well, including rockets, darts, seeds and so on.

TLDR: If you're not lazy enough to craft 4 stacks of ammo, you're not lazy enough to not read this.
 
While it would be interesting to have more versions of Endless Ammo. (I know I would jump at the chance to use Endless Cursed Arrows/ Cursed Musket Balls). It is very likely to be considered overpowered as others have said. Because you wouldn't have need to use the Normal Endless Ammo Pouches/Quivers.

An issue considering the cost of the Arrows is that Arrows can also be bought from the merchant which is always how I get my Endless Ammo once I'm able to. Meaning the player doesn't need to use Stone, Wood, or Gel at all to get the Endless Ammo for the types that are crafted from Wooden Arrows. So the player would only need to spend a few gold to get the 3996 Ammo for any version of Endless Ammo. Just convert the 3996 Wooden Arrows they bought into the type of Endless Ammo they want and it is done. Chloro Arrows and Luminite would be unaffected by this, but Wooden Arrows are the base of most Ammo.

While this suggestion may be considered overpowered by the Developers, I can't deny that I would love to see more types of Endless Ammo in the game so I will support this.
 
No. The only reason (or, I should say, only possible justification) endless ammo is in the game right now is because it is objectively worse than using any real ammo- lowest tier possible of arrows/bullets. It's built for people who would favor convenience over power; Giving people infinite ammo of any type would just be overpowered. It would literally be a huge, permanent, straight-damage upgrade to all ranged weapons (save rockets). I could almost double the Megashark's base DPS if I wanted to at very little cost.

However, ask someone who just started out to get Molten Armor, and they will most likely not be able to do so. Objectively, it's pretty difficult to get equipment.
This is really only tangentially related, but rather recently, for a different thread, I tested this out. Using a pickaxe on a tier equivalent to one you can obtain at the start of the game (nightmare pick and reaver shark, respectively) and no equipment better than wood armor + iron sword (plus some rope and potions I found on the way down), I went into the Underworld and came back up with enough hellstone to craft a full set of molten armor. It was surprisingly easy, and that's saying something because I am by no means a good player.
 
No. The only reason (or, I should say, only possible justification) endless ammo is in the game right now is because it is objectively worse than using any real ammo- lowest tier possible of arrows/bullets. It's built for people who would favor convenience over power; Giving people infinite ammo of any type would just be overpowered. It would literally be a huge, permanent, straight-damage upgrade to all ranged weapons (save rockets). I could almost double the Megashark's base DPS if I wanted to at very little cost.


This is really only tangentially related, but rather recently, for a different thread, I tested this out. Using a pickaxe on a tier equivalent to one you can obtain at the start of the game (nightmare pick and reaver shark, respectively) and no equipment better than wood armor + iron sword (plus some rope and potions I found on the way down), I went into the Underworld and came back up with enough hellstone to craft a full set of molten armor. It was surprisingly easy, and that's saying something because I am by no means a good player.
I agree with you on the molten armor, but an endless luminite clip (that should be the name) would require you to beat the moonlord at least once. and you can destroy the moonlord with one of its own drops, the last prism. so really, an endless source or luminite bullets already exists, it just takes longer to build up. I don't see the problem with an endless luminite clip, if it requires you to win the game to get. especially since it wouldn't be as op as the moonlords weapon drops. *cough* last prism *cough*
 
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Im not a ranger. By any means. But, I know lots of people (one of my best friends included) would like this. But in my opinion, to make it less OP, there shouldn't be one for every arrow and bullet. maybe just a few tiers. (arrows: wooden, unholly.. idk.. You get where I'm going.. maybe..) )idont know many arrow types..) also, possibly, the higher tier 'infinite ammo' could possibly use more than four stacks of said ammo? idk, as I said, I'm not a ranger, I'm a tank. I don't know whats overpowered and whats not when it comes to ranged. Except the Sniper. my friend killed me with one shot with that thing. I had 115 def, and full health, and he one-shot me..

anyways, support i guess? idk, i will support for other people.
 
Infinite versions of every ammo would be a bit much, as the developers wanted ammo to feel costly for a reason. However, I do hate the idea of having to sacrifice power just for a little bit of convenience. I think it'd be best to have at least the lower half of the ammo progression be made available in unlimited form. Maybe a couple of the good types could be made unlimited if you have a higher tier item to add into the recipe.
 
Infinite versions of every ammo would be a bit much, as the developers wanted ammo to feel costly for a reason. However, I do hate the idea of having to sacrifice power just for a little bit of convenience. I think it'd be best to have at least the lower half of the ammo progression be made available in unlimited form. Maybe a couple of the good types could be made unlimited if you have a higher tier item to add into the recipe.
oh, you mean like luminite, the item that you have to win the game to get?
 
oh, you mean like luminite, the item that you have to win the game to get?
That's going a bit further than I'm talking about :p

I was thinking these would be available for infinites with just the crystal ball:
  • Bone Arrow
  • Flaming Arrow
  • Frostburn Arrow
  • Unholy Arrow
  • Silver Bullet
  • Meteor Shot
Maybe open these up with some Hallowed bars:
  • Jester's Arrow
  • Hellfire Arrow
  • Exploding Bullet
  • Golden Bullet
  • High Velocity Bullet
  • Nano Bullet
  • Party Bullet
If you really insist on Luminite to allow infinites of something, I could see these ones going that route:
  • Holy Arrow
  • Ichor Arrow
  • Cursed Arrow
  • Venom Arrow
  • Crystal Bullet
  • Ichor Bullet
  • Cursed Bullet
  • Venom Bullet
So that would leave at least the final tiers still limited (Chlorophyte and Luminite).
 
Perhaps if the endless pouches were reduced to the same power as the base endless pouches?

Luminite arrow 15 damage, endless luminite 5.
Chlorophyte bullet 10 damage, endless chlorophyte 7.

Even at half power, I'd still use a pouch of endless chlorophyte bullets, holy arrows, and luminite arrows, so it might still be OP?
 
To make this "balanced" and not OP make it 16 or atleast 10 stacks of X arrow X bullet (when it isnt the normal arrows and bullets)
this would be balanced because if you are at the point where you can get this much of one ammo it shouldnt be a problem finding more of it and it just fills your inventory.

i dont believe this will be added to the game but it isnt op if it got changed
 
I'll spend an hour in the jungle mining chlorophyte to have all my bullets used up after 2 or 3 frost moons.. meanwhile magic and melee can be just as effective (or even more) without the need to keep grinding. This just isn't fun to me at all, and is the main reason why I do not play ranged.

I do not believe this would be overpowered at all. Ammo limit was a handicap that made more sense in the early game, but at the endgame magic and melee have just as much range as the ranged weapons. The difference being melee can go on forever, magic with higher burst damage with needing to recharge mana, and range.. needing to take a break and farm for a few hours before they can return to what they were doing.

Imagine if you needed a chlorophyte ore per Terra Blade swing, or one ectoplasm every 100 mana cast as a mage. Each class has an upside and a downside, but the downside to ranger is massive if we compare it to the others..

Removing the chore of reacquiring ammo isn't overpowered when the other classes have free range. Amount crafted per bar or ammo damage and etc could always be adjusted if needed. This would be one of a few steps I'd like to see in making the range class more bearable to play.
 
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That makes complete sense now that I see it in that perspective. But I still think that it should be a challenge to get that endless _______ ammo pouch. But that's just my opinion.
 
What about if the basic endless pouches are the base item, then further combined, but requiring greater amounts.

E.g. holy arrows
Would normally take 25 unihorns and 75 dust to make 5,000 holy arrows.

So instead if it required 50 horn and 150 dust (editted as i forgot to mention horn and dust change)
Additionally it could need 25 souls of:
Light (due to stars falling on impact)
Flight (stars come from the sky)

I'm just thinking overcompensation could be an appropriate compromise.

That being said, phantasm or vortex beater + ammo box + ammo reservation potion cuts down consumption alot. This can be further enhanced by armour and even further by magic quiver if using phantasm.

I do agree that it would be less annoying though. The items aren't hard to get, just a little time consuming. Hell they could even make an ultimate endless item similar to the grand design/multiwrench, where you set the ammo equipped using the item.

I assume the only reason they don't is due to ammo reservation effects.
 
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What about if the basic endless pouches are the base item, then further combined, but requiring greater amounts.

E.g. holy arrows
Would normally take 25 unihorns and 75 dust to make 5,000 holy arrows.

So instead if it required 50 horn and 150 dust (editted as i forgot to mention horn and dust change)
Additionally it could need 25 souls of:
Light (due to stars falling on impact)
Flight (stars come from the sky)

I'm just thinking overcompensation could be an appropriate compromise.

That being said, phantasm or vortex beater + ammo box + ammo reservation potion cuts down consumption alot. This can be further enhanced by armour and even further by magic quiver if using phantasm.

I do agree that it would be less annoying though. The items aren't hard to get, just a little time consuming. Hell they could even make an ultimate endless item similar to the grand design/multiwrench, where you set the ammo equipped using the item.

I assume the only reason they don't is due to ammo reservation effects.[/QUOTE
What about if the basic endless pouches are the base item, then further combined, but requiring greater amounts.

E.g. holy arrows
Would normally take 25 unihorns and 75 dust to make 5,000 holy arrows.

So instead if it required 50 horn and 150 dust (editted as i forgot to mention horn and dust change)
Additionally it could need 25 souls of:
Light (due to stars falling on impact)
Flight (stars come from the sky)

I'm just thinking overcompensation could be an appropriate compromise.

That being said, phantasm or vortex beater + ammo box + ammo reservation potion cuts down consumption alot. This can be further enhanced by armour and even further by magic quiver if using phantasm.

I do agree that it would be less annoying though. The items aren't hard to get, just a little time consuming. Hell they could even make an ultimate endless item similar to the grand design/multiwrench, where you set the ammo equipped using the item.

I assume the only reason they don't is due to ammo reservation effects.
I didn't understand, can you explain it differently?
 
Sorry, basically if we call the endless quiver the base item, to upgrade it to holy arrows, normally to cover 4996 you'd need 25 unicorn horns and 75 pixie dust.

so the recipe would be as follows
Endless Quiver
25 Unicorn Horns
75 Pixie Dust

people are saying this is too cheap, so how about doubling the base cost to 50 and 150 respectively (enough to make 10,000 arrows)
maybe a few souls and/or bars just to sweeten the deal.
Say:
Endless Quiver
50 Unicorn Horns
150 Pixie Dust
25 souls of light
25 souls of flight


If this pattern were followed, perhaps we could have a special item later where you can choose the ammo from a selection wheel, just as you can select wire colour on the multiwrench/grand design.

for example, maybe you want to use chlorophyte bullets/arrows instead of luminite. Bam, right there on the wheel, no awkward ammo changing, or pickups of silver bullets/wooden arrows getting in your way.


The only reason I doubt this will happen is due to all the ammo saving items and effects. The vortex beater and phantasm save 66% ammo alone. combine this with other effects and usage is lowered by a huge amount. (however the main benefit to a multipouch/quiver would be dynamically switching ammo without taking up too much room or drops getting in the way.)
 
Sorry, basically if we call the endless quiver the base item, to upgrade it to holy arrows, normally to cover 4996 you'd need 25 unicorn horns and 75 pixie dust.

so the recipe would be as follows
Endless Quiver
25 Unicorn Horns
75 Pixie Dust

people are saying this is too cheap, so how about doubling the base cost to 50 and 150 respectively (enough to make 10,000 arrows)
maybe a few souls and/or bars just to sweeten the deal.
Say:
Endless Quiver
50 Unicorn Horns
150 Pixie Dust
25 souls of light
25 souls of flight


If this pattern were followed, perhaps we could have a special item later where you can choose the ammo from a selection wheel, just as you can select wire colour on the multiwrench/grand design.

for example, maybe you want to use chlorophyte bullets/arrows instead of luminite. Bam, right there on the wheel, no awkward ammo changing, or pickups of silver bullets/wooden arrows getting in your way.


The only reason I doubt this will happen is due to all the ammo saving items and effects. The vortex beater and phantasm save 66% ammo alone. combine this with other effects and usage is lowered by a huge amount. (however the main benefit to a multipouch/quiver would be dynamically switching ammo without taking up too much room or drops getting in the way.)
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I do agree with your reasoning and they should implement choosing ammo whenever you want without going into your inventory, because it becomes risky when fighting a boss.
 
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