Mana Guide

[chewythebigblackdog]

Mana cloak is an interesting item where it's simultaneously a noob trap (thinking the secondary effect is better than it is) and somewhat okay, since if you are using celestial emblem already, it's best secondary effect you can give your mana flower. So if you are someone that needs to have a mana flower equipped, it's technically the best option for that slot, though that's all it is, a slightly better mana flower.

The same can be (mostly) said about celestial cuffs. Magic cuffs isn't going to give you a great amount of mana unless you are running a tank build and actively taking damage, but in pre-hardmode (where mana potions aren't worth using), it's probably the best secondary effect you can get on your celestial magnet (which isn't saying very much).

imo, the optimal mana accessory progression would look like:
pre-hardmode: celestial cuffs
early hardmode: celestial cuffs OR magnet flower (if you aren't using quick mana)
post-mechs: celestial emblem AND (optionally) mana cloak (if you aren't using quick mana)
Reminder that you can use shimmer to recover your celestial magnet when you want to change what it's tinkered with.

 

[SilkyVol2]

The damage is useless. The stars rarely land and when they do they dont hit hard.

You have neglected to read my most recent post.

This item restores 50 mana every time you get hit, this is worse than Magic Cuffs and magic cuffs are one of the worst items in the game

You have clearly never used the item, you would know that it serves the same purpose as the flower does, and automatically feeds you potions.

Magnet Flower is the best Mana Flower tinker simply because it has Celestial Magnet in it, with enemies nearby celestial magnet effectively gives infinite mana.

What sort of mage chooses to waste their celestial magnet on a magnet flower? Spend it on a celestial emblem instead! 15% Increased mage damage, along with the magnet effect - Are you a summoner in disguise?

 

[Coleyohley]

You have clearly never used the item, you would know that it serves the same purpose as the flower does, and automatically feeds you potions.

You've already admitted the damage is insignificant though, so what else does the item do that the other Mana Flower tinkers don't?

Is it the extra Mana? That you need to go over and pick up? AFTER it hits solid terrain? Even Mana Cuffs just give you the mana directly, rather than requiring you to walk over to it. They also usually give much, much more, as Mana Cloak will always give you 50 and Mana Cuffs give you equal to the hit's damage before defense and damage reduction are calculated (so usually in the hundreds in Master Mode).

But that rarely matters anyway, because as a mage, you're probably pretty squishy, and getting hit is not in your best interest, so your entire goal should be to see the star as few times as you can. But more importantly, that doesn't matter either, because as the original post explains, even infinite mana is only about a ~10-12% damage increase on most weapons. The mana restoration from this item should ideally come into play as little as possible, is difficult to capitalize on it when it does, and hardly does anything for you even when you do manage to make use of it.

And... that's it; that's all it does in addition to being a mana flower, which all of the other tinkers mentioned also are. I'm failing to see what's so game-changing about Mana Cloak that isn't provided by all of the other Mana Flower tinkers. Arcane Flower straight-up downgrades your Putrid Scent since it removes the damage bonuses, I'll give you that, but as the best of a pretty mediocre lot, Magnet Flower seems like the pretty clear winner for best Mana Flower tinker before you obtain an Avenger Emblem. It'll allow you to pick up dropped mana stars at long range while fighting Queen Slime, Destroyer, or Pirates. The ~10% Damage gain from the more-or-less infinite mana pickups is going to be a lot more helpful than whatever the hell Mana Cloak's star is doing.

What sort of mage chooses to waste their celestial magnet on a magnet flower? Spend it on a celestial emblem instead!

Waste? Throw that thing into the Shimmer!

 

[SilkyVol2]

I'm failing to see what's so game-changing about Mana Cloak that isn't provided by all of the other Mana Flower tinkers.

Hello there again, been a while : D

I easily concede to your point, prior to having an emblem in regard to regenerating Mana, the Magnet Flower is a better option. I prioritise damage as a mage, as outside a supporting class, it doesn't do anything else as well as being a glass cannon. When you have an emblem, you can cut the Magnet Flower out of the picture as its use is replaced. Thus, you move down the list.

Waste? Throw that thing into the Shimmer! Nothing is wasted!

I am a Relic when it comes to this Shimmer stuff, and I do frequently forget that you can reverse your crafting now - in 1.4.3.3, it was sacrilege to use such an exceptionally rare item on the Magnet Flower, when the trade was rare (I would play a lot on Survival Multiplayers, for a mage a TravMerch having a Magnet was like winning the lottery)

Don't forget that the next time a Werewolf rushes you, the stars can avenge you! (The extra damage is always nice too in any case)

 

[Meowlegend]

I didnt know people were discussing about accessories that make you get damage reduction every 10 seconds of using a magic weapon.

 

[Dapling]

I didnt know people were discussing about accessories that make you get damage reduction every 10 seconds of using a magic weapon.

I didn’t know people weren’t allowed to talk about mana economy in the thread about mana economy

 

[SilkyVol2]

Damage accessories can offset loss, and the problem can be dodged entirely by waiting out your mana sickness - less than the time you'll spend waiting for your mana to regenerate

 

[Meowlegend]

Really cool how I revived the tread after saying I prefer mana regen over mana potions

 

[J Bame]

You have neglected to read my most recent post.

You have clearly never used the item, you would know that it serves the same purpose as the flower does, and automatically feeds you potions.

So, you need to realize that Mana flower is not a key item that every wizard can use, and that it is in fact a pretty bad item too.

Mana Cloak combines a bad item with one of the worst items in the game (star cloak), a simple damage retaliation effect that doesnt synergize with mana economy in any way, and makes you think it's a good deal because it has meaningless mana restoration as a bonus.

Mana cloak isnt bad because the stars are meaningless, or because Mana Flower is bad, its because both of those effects are useless and dont improve each other in any way.

What sort of mage chooses to waste their celestial magnet on a magnet flower? Spend it on a celestial emblem instead! 15% Increased mage damage, along with the magnet effect - Are you a summoner in disguise?

The one that realizes that Magnet Flower is a prehardmode item and Celestial Emblem is post mech, that difference covers more than a third of the game.

The truth is, if Shimmer didnt exist, or Magnet Flower didn't, i'd just use the Celestial Magnet by itself until Celestial Emblem.

Mana flower is bad, but what it does complements Celestial magnet's effect, so may as well upgrade it a bit. When mana stars are present Celestial Magnet is basically infinite mana. When mana stars arent present (a boss with no minions), Celestial Magnet is useless, and Mana Flower is bad by itself, so you unequip both the Magnet and the Magnet Flower.

There is no case where Mana Cloak is good because both effects are always terrible and dont complement each other in any way

 

[Meowlegend]

So, you need to realize that Mana flower is not a key item that every wizard can use, and that it is in fact a pretty bad item too.

And yet the tips present on main menu says "best wizards around use mana flowers". Nice myth, red

Mana Cloak combines a bad item with one of the worst items in the game (star cloak), a simple damage retaliation effect that doesnt synergize with mana economy in any way, and makes you think it's a good deal because it has meaningless mana restoration as a bonus.

Okay tho, star cloak looks cool and is used to craft the Star veil so its good for tha- oh wait, this is about the mana cloak...
I thought mana cloak was a good accessory when I first tried to use magic weapons, I had my mana drain quickly so I decided to make the mana flower, then I decided to upgrade it to the mana cloak because I thought it was better than the others. Then I realized that it was indeed bad (and realized it was even worse after reading what you guys' typed) so I just locked it down to a chest and never touched it again.

(then I switched over to mana regen but that is a different story)

Mana flower is bad, but what it does complements Celestial magnet's effect, so may as well upgrade it a bit. When mana stars are present Celestial Magnet is basically infinite mana. When mana stars arent present (a boss with no minions), Celestial Magnet is useless, and Mana Flower is bad by itself, so you unequip both the Magnet and the Magnet Flower.

To be fair, unless that is not a boss that constantly spawns minions, Celestial magnet will not be good (obviously). The best time you benefit from the Celestial magnet is during the events (especially in a intense event like the Pumpkin moon). You dont even need mana potions during the events when you have the Celestial magnet (or its upgrades).

 

[Dapling]

So, you need to realize that Mana flower is not a key item that every wizard can use, and that it is in fact a pretty bad item too.

The following screenshot illustrates why:

 

[SilkyVol2]

So, you need to realize that Mana flower is not a key item that every wizard can use, and that it is in fact a pretty bad item too.

"The Mana Flower is a pre-Hardmode accessory that reduces mana usage by 8%, and enables auto-consumption of any mana-restoring potions in the player's inventory when mana is depleted." - I don't see how this is "Pretty bad", automating your Mana Recovery meaning to stave off sickness, you just need to watch your mana gauge (This applies to the flower-esque items, the effect is a titan in mana economy)

Mana Cloak combines a bad item with one of the worst items in the game (star cloak), a simple damage retaliation effect that doesnt synergize with mana economy in any way, and makes you think it's a good deal because it has meaningless mana restoration as a bonus.

When you have an emblem, you can cut the Magnet Flower out of the picture as its use is replaced. Thus, you move down the list.

both of those effects are useless

That is very much an overstatement on both counts, whether they are optimal in any way or not

There is no case where Mana Cloak is good because both effects are always terrible and dont complement each other in any way

Another case of mana regen Nazism - They don't need to complement each other, as their "complimentary relationship" is already covered, either with them separately in your inventory, or with a celestial emblem

The truth is, if Shimmer didnt exist, or Magnet Flower didn't, i'd just use the Celestial Magnet by itself until Celestial Emblem.

I agree, as seen prior

I am a Relic when it comes to this Shimmer stuff, and I do frequently forget that you can reverse your crafting now - in 1.4.3.3, it was sacrilege to use such an exceptionally rare item on the Magnet Flower

 

[Shyguymask]

"The Mana Flower is a pre-Hardmode accessory that reduces mana usage by 8%, and enables auto-consumption of any mana-restoring potions in the player's inventory when mana is depleted." - I don't see how this is "Pretty bad", automating your Mana Recovery meaning to stave off sickness, you just need to watch your mana gauge (This applies to the flower-esque items, the effect is a titan in mana economy)

The problem is opportunity cost.

You are choosing between effects like +1 minion slot, +15% magic damage, or increased jump/wing ascent speed among other things... but instead, you're ditching all of these in favor of borderline just QoL. Drinking mana potions manually can be learned (and is frankly not very complex).

 

[Coleyohley]

Drinking mana potions manually can be learned (and is frankly not very complex).

"The best Wizards use Mana Flowers."

No. No they don't. The best ones keep an eye on their mana and press the hotkey at the right moment. Needing an accessory to use potions at the right time means you're inexperienced.

Though honestly, you'd think Mana wouldn't even be a problem for someone who has completely mastered the arts of magic.

(To be clear, using the accessory to save yourself from clicking a button every few seconds is totally fine, and you are completely justified in doing that; I'm just making fun of the loading screen tip.)

 

[SilkyVol2]

Drinking mana potions manually can be learned (and is frankly not very complex).

Automatically drinking your mana potions changes that system -

Where you want to optimise your damage and avoid mana sickness, you now watch your mana gauge, and await your mana sickness to pass before finishing the gauge and cycling your mana

Damage accessories can offset mana sickness anyways, spelunking becomes easier always having your offense available to you without have to do additional connection

 

[J Bame]

Automatically drinking your mana potions changes that system -

Where you want to optimise your damage and avoid mana sickness, you now watch your mana gauge, and await your mana sickness to pass before finishing the gauge and cycling your mana

Damage accessories can offset mana sickness anyways, spelunking becomes easier always having your offense available to you without have to do additional connection

Are you currently attacking? If yes, do nothing. If no, press [whatever key is most convenient]. One press every couple seconds and we are done. This is why Mana Flower is not used. This post even goes into how efficient mana flower is compared to manual inputs

Damage accessories dont offset mana sickness because of the simple fact mana sickness is multiplicative, it doesnt matter if you have 0% damage or 100%, the impact of sickness to your DPS is the same.

 

[Dapling]

So for example, if accessory completely prevents having to use super mana potions for the following weapons this is how much dps it adds.
Life Drain: 10%
Rainbow Rod: 10.9%
Blizzard staff: 10.8%
Laser Machinegun: 9%
Razorblade Typhoon: 4.73%

I would like to draw attention to this. This is how much dps an accessory with 100% mana reduction would add, btw.

 

[SilkyVol2]

Are you currently attacking? If yes, do nothing. If no, press [whatever key is most convenient]. One press every couple seconds and we are done. This is why Mana Flower is not used. This post even goes into how efficient mana flower is compared to manual inputs

In any case, you do not have to manually cycle your mana potions if it is automatic - the flower does not use it at time intervals, the condition can be controlled and timed as you see fit

Damage accessories dont offset mana sickness because of the simple fact mana sickness is multiplicative, it doesnt matter if you have 0% damage or 100%, the impact of sickness to your DPS is the same.

What? The higher damage you do, the more will remain if it is divided

4 divided in half is 2, while 2 divided in half is 1 - 4 makes the difference

Mana armour, accessories and a good reforge will give you large mana bar and enough time to pass mana sickness by

 

[chewythebigblackdog]

My guy, have you even read the post you are replying to? It literally says that mana potions are a ~10% impact to your dps AT WORST, assuming you aren't drinking mana potions when you already have mana sickness (in hardmode, only 2 weapons consume mana fast enough to do this). Mana usage reduction is not at all required to avoid this. +mana is useful to get the most out of super mana potions, but most weapons don't even need super mana potions to avoid drinking a potion while mana sickness is still active (plus basically all mage armour will give enough additional mana as is).

Also, manually using mana potions (via quick mana ofc) gives you even more control than a mana flower does (I'd argue mana flower doesn't even give you any control at all, since it will always use one when you run out of mana). Mana flower is not a bad item because mana potions are bad, it's a bad item because it gives basically zero benefit over drinking mana potions via quick mana. The only time I'll bother using a mana flower is for QoL when I'm using a magic weapon with a penalty for using a mana potion too late (which is just last prism and laser machinegun)

If you prefer the QoL of mana flower compared to using quick mana, then go right ahead. Play the game how you want, I have nothing against that. However, you shouldn't use that as an argument that mana flower is a powerful item.

 

[SilkyVol2]

My guy, have you even read the post you are replying to?

Are you referring to the post I am quoting? Or the original post in the thread?

Also, manually using mana potions (via quick mana ofc) gives you even more control than a mana flower does

It is your choice between it, like picking out a car (in the 1990's, when were manuals made past 2006?)

it gives basically zero benefit over drinking mana potions via quick mana

From your perspective, you find it easier to use a hotkey

(plus basically all mage armour will give enough additional mana as is).

I already said this

Mana usage reduction is not at all required to avoid this

I have stated this too

but most weapons don't even need super mana potions to avoid drinking a potion while mana sickness is still active

Eh, yea? The sky is also blue