PC A new type of invulnerability machine

[Solidus 316]

What happens if you wear no armor at all? (And fall down from a 26 block height)

Dunno, with the final update for 1.2.4 now on XboxOne, fall dmg seems to properly apply, now i did have beetle armor but still... 1dmg is 1dmg
Now to get the down hoik to work properly and find a dmg dealer in 1.2.4 to make this worthwhile

 

[That_Guy]

Is anyone still listening on this thread? I see a lot of nice designs posted (zerogravitas is my idol), but I can't seem to find any cheese machine examples that work pre-hardmode, let alone from day 1.

Using the info from this thread, I have devised a hoik-only, pre-hardmode, day-1 cheese machine that delivers the requisite 2 points of fall damage. Employing all pre-hardmode passive regen options (regen band, campfire, heart lantern, honey, and regen potion) still causes life to be lost, but only at about 1 hp per second, so I'm pretty sure that the net hp loss can be covered by healing potions with plenty of time to spare for healing sickness.

Using the machine, I killed the brain and skeletron reasonably quickly without taking any damage (other than from the cheese machine itself), and was never in danger of dying.

Yes, the starfury makes things much easier. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to find other weapons that work well (the hoik loop *is* totally open on both sides).

If anyone is interested, I can post the design, although it's incredibly simple. Just a loop made of two 10-tooth tall hoik columns (with the necessary two-block space separating them), 20 teeth in total. The teeth in each column are always vertically spaced to have two blocks in between, with a single exception of a gap with only one block in between (that can be incorporated into the column pretty much anywhere you want). So the two columns of teeth are 29 blocks tall, with the necessary ceiling at 30 blocks high (so that the sideways hoik kicks in). There is a small honey pool at the bottom, a campfire on top of the ceiling, and a heart lantern hanging from the ceiling.

 

[stefnotch]

@That_Guy Cool!
I can already imagine what it looks like, but pictures are always appreciated. (That way, anybody can quickly and easily build it)

 

[That_Guy]

Skeletron never stood a chance. The fact that he tries to get up in your face quite a bit makes it easy, even without the starfury. Just wave any decent melee weapon when he gets close.

I haven't yet tried widening the loop to find the limit where invulnerability from the fall damage expires, but this still works pretty well if you have a few healing potions.

Defense should be around 15 or 16 (whatever yields two points of fall damage per trip around the loop before regen effects [campfire, honey, etc] are applied), and a regen band and regen potion should be used. This makes life drop at a rate (about 1hp/sec) such that the time spent in the hoik loop should only be limited by the amount of healing potions in your inventory, since the amount of hp lost during healing sickness should work out to be less than the life restored by a healing potion.

The main reason I love this is because it can be made so early in the game. The heart crystal (to make the lantern) and two buckets of honey are the only things you'd even have to work for, since the required defense could be achieved really early with ironskin potions.

I should mention that I'm only using this particular setup pre-hardmode. Hardmode regen options (especially the cross necklace) should allow for a much wider loop that doesn't require potions, nor regen band. I'll post that upgraded machine once I build it

Crap - I almost forgot to mention the other big reason I love this. It works in multiplayer! All the cheese machines that need wiring (especially teleporters) seem to fail intermittently when in multiplayer, but this works flawlessly, at least so far.

[doublepost=1484557903,1484105737][/doublepost]I have to give credit to stefnotch - this wound up being really similar to your version with the cross necklace. Wish I'd seen that first before building from scratch (the images didn't load for me until I registered my account so I could post my machine). Well, OK, I *did* have the useful descriptions here in this thread

I'm going to try some crazy wiring to get only the next tooth in line to be actuated, and to automatically turn off when past, like zerogravitas mentioned (and you implemented fairly well).
[doublepost=1484906858][/doublepost][UPDATE]

The good news: Turning on each hoik tooth on approach and turning it off once past was a little trickier than anticipated, but it finally works!

The bad news: As suspected, it completely fails to work properly in multiplayer, like all machines using wiring that require precise timing. Must be some server timing glitch.

The wiring uses weighted pressure plates on the upward journey, and is pretty straightforward. At the top, we also use weighted pressure plates to keep the ceiling turned on when necessary. On the way back down, things get a little more tricky, with regular grey pressure plates turning on the approaching hoik tooth, while simultaneously turning off the receding hoik tooth. The very bottom hoik tooth is left alone, so as to not mess with the honey pool.

Also, if you build this machine, take very close note of which hoik teeth are actuated, and which are not. If your picture doesn't exactly match mine, I cannot guarantee it will work. Speaking of which, I noticed a weird glitch involving hoiking downward through platforms. I had to adjust the vertical spacing of the downward teeth many times before I found an exact spacing that would allow a player to pass through the platforms without getting stuck. Even the same tooth spacing, moved one total block higher (or lower) would cause a player to get stuck. Figuring that one out really sucked. So build it exactly as shown, or it probably won't work.

I was originally going to make a wider hardmode version of this machine to take advantage of the cross necklace, but on second thought, I probably won't bother. As it stands, the maximum time someone can spend in the machine without dying is only limited by the amount of regen and healing potions in the player's inventory. Hardmode accessories (moon charm, etc) that improve regen may likely prove to be enough to eliminate the need for potions altogether (I'll get back to you on that one )

 

[That_Guy]

BTW, to make my machine work in Expert Mode requires 10 defense AND well-fed, so you need 8 defense and some food to make it work. Yes, I still use this thing. Slime mount tricks are too unreliable.

EDIT 8/29/2022: This machine also fails against the Empress of Light. Apparently she inflicts Moon Lord-style damage, which has separate invulnerability frames from all other damage types.

Also, what is this stupidity I see in the lower right of this forum: "You have insufficient pricioges to reply here". Umm, I used to be able to generate new posts/replies but can no longer do so? AYFKM?

 

[Quasar [Hoik guy]]

Here's my take on it: this setup allows for a loop short enough to be under 20 frames and still making you take damage, making 1 damage loops viable pre skeletron. Invalid platforms are the best thing that exists.

You spend 9 frames going up, 9 frames going down, and one frame landing and taking fall damage.
There are ways to go back up without taking the time to land, but using that will shorten the fall to the height of the tooth you landed onto, since it's higher up. This extends the minimum lengh of the hoik and increases the loop minimum time to 20 frames, which leaves you vulnerable for one frame.

This requires holding up to function (specifically, to mount the hoik at the bottom), and I was not able to make the fall 26 block tall, only 27. This raises the defence requiremets to 19 master mode, 25 expert and 37 classic. That said, this is a minimum and not an exact value, meaning going above will not harm the machine.
Of course, you still want the camprife/heart lantern/honey/band of regen setup to reach 3hp/s of regen for this setup to last indefinitely.

Functional setup on the left, before swapping the invalid platforms on the right


Update:

!!! This only works on the PC version, which mean the following design is PC exclusive !!!

I found a way to speed up upward hoiks, by positionning a platform hammered 3 times above a sloped block. If the player character lands on the slope of the block, and not at the top, they will be placed on top of the patform. This is done is less than a frame, essentially increasing the hoik's speed to 240 tiles/s instead of the usual 180.

note that the sprite being lowered is purely visual, the character's hitbox is moved instantly

​

Given that the lack of time was the only thing keeping classic hoik invincibility machine from using one point of fall damage, this allows us to do so without the increased defense and button holding of the previous design.

Functional setup to the left, before platform swapping to the right

The machine in action​

The requirements are:
- +3 regen (achivable with a campfire, heart lantern, band of regen, and honey buff) or more
- 9/11/17 (master/expert/classic) defense or more

I do not see a way to potentially improve the performance of this design.



Update 2:

This design is not a performance upgrade per se, but an adaptation of the previous design so it works on all platforms.

Instead of landing the player on a lowered platform, it does so on a solid bock directly, hammered so it doesn't disrupt the upward hoik.
The rest functions the same way.

functional setup

The machine in action​

As with the previous design, the requirements are:
- +3 regen (achivable with a campfire, heart lantern, band of regen, and honey buff) or more
- 9/11/17 (master/expert/classic) defense or more
The only funcional difference is that the added blocks may make it harder to shoot through depending of the weapon you are using.



Update 3:

Small improvements over my first, vertical design, and my last, optimised one.

​

The optimized design (on the left) has been made thinner, and unnecessary accelerations of the up hoik have been removed, to deal less damage players not reaching the 3hp/s regen requirement and look better.

The purely vertical design (on the right) now no longer requires holding up to enter. The higher defense requirement remains the same



Update 4:

This design combines the advantages of all previous designs
Low requirements (9/11/17 defense and 3hp/s regen or more), purely vertical, requirering no buttons held, and all platforms.

the two desigs are functionally identical
​

Like with the previous designs, the stone platforms here are invalid, the swapped blocks hammered to point down and to the left.

To mount it, press down on the top platform or hold down while walking in if you placed sloped platforms at the bottom like on the right. Then release down.
If you are stuck at the bottom, walk left. If you are stuck at the top, walk right. The right position has you bouncing up and down.

the machine in action, frame by frame
​

This is the theoretical best performance a machine based on this principle can achive, I do not believe it is possible to upgrade it further


Update 5:

It was brought to my attention that the use of platforms in the previous designs prevents them to be used against ftw skeletron prime, so here is a platformless version.

The entrance (on the bottom left) can be made differently, but this one was build to require no platforms or actuators. To enter, walk in from the left holding right, and let go when you stop moving.

 

[That_Guy]

Here's my take on it: this setup allows for a loop short enough to be under 20 frames and still making you take damage, making 1 damage loops viable pre skeletron. Invalid platforms are the best thing that exists.

I bow to the master. Thank you for your optimization.

This is so cool. I always suspected it could be made better. Now if only mod authors didn't keep adding bosses that deal Moonlord damage XD