Last boss should be hard enough. Non-expert mode is easier as well. Moon Lord has pretty straightforward no cheese strategies and all cheesy ones are mostly related to using hearth statues that you can't nerf anyway and that aren't related to any other "bugs".
With the Moon Lord example - absolutely nothing changes if you fix the bug with invulnerability engines, as he has his own "fix" for those already
And yes, "rebalancing everything to a non-bug world" is actually needed and totally worth it sometimes and it's mostly called "refactoring" then.
The reason I dislike Moon Lord and his situation is the sharp change in difficulty the game underwent following 1.3. Wall of Flesh in 1.0 no problem, Mech bosses in 1.1 a fun challenge, Golem in 1.2 not bad. (Maybe even underwhelming) Moon Lord, Full potion/buffs (Capped at 20) and celestial gear still results in deaths. I do not speak only for myself, I was able to succeed with half of that, (on normal) but I'm not the only one who plays the game and I have on more than one occasion been asked to beat moon lord for someone in multiplayer because they can't. That bothers me. (No boss except the optional Duke Fishron, and the optional moons has ever caused me to do that. Which starting with Pumpkin Moon was progressively moving towards the current balance. Even then, Moons were about additional help not inability, Duke was the first to be too hard.)
Games don't work this way, especially those that have any sign of multiplayer or comparison/competitive possibilities.
This, you are right. When I think of Bug I think hopping backwards up Mario 64's stairs to shoot through walls, or jumping from a bridge with a chicken in Zelda to reach an area early. Thus why I consider them harmless. However, to my distaste today's gaming is all about competition even when there shouldn't be any. I turn on a single player game and play a level to be rewarded with the information that I am the 10897th fastest player to play that level. (See Banjo Kazooie on Xbox360.) Everything is competitive even when it shouldn't be. Take Cluster Truck, a simple platforming game where the leaderboards show times of 0:00. (So, why would I try anyway.) Even in Terraria, outside PvP, players treat items they acquire as trophy pieces rather than a simple part of the game. (Perhaps it is because of the sometimes unfair grinding required for some of them.) I don't care how other players do things, I want to have fun playing the game I bought.
Terraria's PvP, lacking though it is, is a perfect excuse to fix bugs. Multiplayer is not, since players working together would likely agree on bugs to use or not use. (And really in a co-op multiplayer setting, who really cares how someone got something. As described above with Mario, bugs are part of a game, even if the developers didn't plan on it. And just because someone else uses one doesn't mean I have to, nor does it change my ability to enjoy the game.) Even the races I've had to get to X part of the game have been on the honor system. (And if I lose due to cheating, big deal, they won with a cheat that's for them to live with.) Finally, not one "bug" was brought to my attention until the Pumpkin Moon's release. Until then the game was balanced in such a way that I never even considered looking for one. Pumpkin Moon was designed for multiple players but, not everyone had others to work with, meaning those by themselves had to somehow become the power of more than one person. The frost moon and several nerfs followed, from which I firmly believe Duke Fishron was created as step one to stopping exploits, with the Moon Lord being the final more aggressive approach. (Exploits mind you that were mostly created by 1.2 content.) I see that you and I will not agree on this or the Moon Lord's balance, I have said what I wish too and will be dropping the topic. (I welcome your position on what I have said but, I will not be responding to the bug/moon lord topic further.)
Yeah, I totally get that, and I thought exactly about new (yeah, new game mechanic, not too easy stuff for lazy devs
) override thing that actually blocks event spawns as well. Kinda like super improved Skeleton Merchant. He eats up helluva lot of spawn slots at once, so might actually completely prevent enemies from spawning in some circumstances. I saw that myself - cave level, creature count says zero for several minutes after he showed up, then I left. Just in a form of a player controlled item like furniture/mechanism. "Shield generator" or something. And it'd block event spawns too, yes, completely block, not improved candles, I do remember the main goal
Eh, but that's exactly (well, maybe indirectly) what you wanted! Absolute defense inside some area. Super late game and stuff? Clarify this point please.
Yes, I intend it to be very late game as the final offender that I can come up with outside intentionally spawned events and bosses is Mothron. I thought it might be nice to have the recipe include ectoplasm, one soul to stop another. Which would put it after Plantera but before the lunar event. (Though ectoplasm + luminite is my personal preference. Ectoplasm x1 + Luminite Ore x1 = x4 block or something. Hmmm, Maybe thats too low of an output. *Shrug*) The player should be passed the need to fight the enemies which it blocks, which excluding lunar, is everything but golem and dungeon by this point. (And I won't be building a NPC house in the dungeon anytime soon.)
The way I see it there is a difference between ignoring and eliminating spawns. With ignoring, the power exists only for an enemy proof construct, surrounded by the block/wall. Otherwise there is nothing stopping the enemy from spawning inside with you, since it is the block that deters the enemy. An object of any sort that blocks spawns, even late game could be used to halt all enemies on the map rather easily. Obviously it would have an area of effect, My guess is close to campfire range. Alright, just going to place a few here and there and done. No more enemies ever. (You also have to consider that critters including the truffle worm count as spawns for candle/potion. Such a power would halt them completely as well. Not a huge loss, but something to consider.) With blocks, the moment you step outside your protected zone, you are vulnerable. Therefore to be totally protected you would need to build everywhere you want protection rather than placing an item. This way, the blocks primary power is keeping things that don't belong out. Just once I want to be able to AFK from a multiplayer game, get a sandwich without being terrified of coming back and having an eclipse killing me. Not have to worry about enemies spawning on my roof and killing everything as the come down to get me. Not have the same palm wood resort hotel at the ends of the earth, for the NPCs own protection. Again, late game, but if I've killed Plantera or even more so Moon Lord, I should be able to have some control over Terraria's environment.
I hope I understand your pain now, you actually like to build a lot; and yeah, building in the air is the only safe place now. Actually, with a lot of effort, you can build an underground base (blocking huge area around to prevent spawning completely) and it'll be the safest place ever, no invasions, nothing. But it takes a lot of time. (Summoner standing in my usual low-air town does kill Mothrons in a pure AFK mode btw, mostly without even getting hit once!)
Hah, good point. Builders would happily build bases all around the world, true that. (Me too btw, I'm not a 100% or even like 50% builder, but I still do build sophisticated bases, mechanisms and dungeons sometimes.)
Oh yes, I know it well. Its the same principle as maximizing spawns just in reverse. I only have to build walls 50 blocks above and below the edges of my base and 85 left and right of it. Just means my 10x10 base becomes 110x180, in this case only 198x the work. (Yeah, I know I'm being dramatic with a 100x100 base its only 5x the work.) Silly drama aside, I'm not foreign to the concept, but once you clear out all that space and finish all that building are you really even in the biome anymore? Sure I could clear the area, place the wall and rebuild the blocks, but I think most people would find that a bit extreme. Oh, and of course I cant place snow, ice, sandstone, hardened sand, mud wall or pretty much any wall found underground to recreate the biome... Just saying.
WAT? Blasphemy! Not even close! How could someone ever mix them up!?
I may be only one of a few, but when I spend 100+ hours talking to the same NPC only to have a random spawn or wayward projectile kill them it really upsets me. Seriously what are the range on Pumpkings and Lunatic Cultists projectiles?
Of course it isn't, but that's the initial point - not letting even "special" monsters (those are the absolute minority btw) inside. Well, whatever, I just wanted to point out some simple abuse possibilities, the general point is still standing - you just need your NPCs to be safe while being next to you inside your house built in no matter what fancy (and that's why cooler looking) place.
About Wyverns by the by. My first world was "large". Later I started making "small" ones, they load faster yet still have all the stuff needed. But after literally seeing a freaking WYVERN SPAWN when I went up to the freshly added third floor in my base that is about 20 blocks up from the ground was kinda... outrageous, to say the least. And after a pure summoner playthrough in a "small" world where I was hardly able to kill Wall of Flesh running through whole the Underworld from side to side on the 15th or so try just because of the lack of DPS for such a short distance I totally turned back to "large" worlds. No Wyverns in my attic no more! Plenty of time to kill WoF using some weird stuff!
Yeah, I never use small worlds unless my goal is to raid it for those rare 1/20 map items like Seaweed, Fish, Sandstorm in a bottle, etc. (Or because I need flame traps which are usually 1-3 to a temple.) I never playthrough on those maps, too much headache. I once had Harpies spawn at the generated "ground" level. Nope, having none of that.
They are a minority, but there is still a lot. And of course there has to be one in every location I could want to build. Sure sky only has Wyverns. Jungle only has Angry Trappers and Man Eaters. Underground only worms,Tim and Rune Wizard. Infected Snow only has Pigron. (Infected snow being an inevitability of being in underground snow without a lot of preparation or clean up.) Surface only has Mothron, Reaper, Wraith and Goblin Sorcerer. (Assuming you weren't unfortunate enough to build where a pillar pops up.) Desert and Underground Desert only has Tomb Crawlers, Dune Splicers and Desert Spirits. Underground Hallow only has chaos elementals. Granite only has Granite elementals. Crimson/Corrupt is uninhabitable. (Though if it gets too close clingers and floaty gross are still possible.) Dungeon and Underworld are still dangerous even if all spawns/projectiles could be blocked out. So yeah... again a tad dramatic but I have a point to make. (Less to you and more to other readers.)
Despawning minions are the major annoyance to a summoner (well, to me at least, pretty sure most others would confirm that). Resummoning requires changing some accessories, maybe eating food or drinking pots again, diving with a Cute Fishron out. Very annoying. No way I'd want to lose and then recall minions again every time I mirror back home just to dump some loot. If it comes to absolute necessity of making such block - make it "deflect" or even "stun" minions when they are too close to the player or something like that please, not just remove them altogether.
Is related to the upper statement. I don't plan on fighting, but I don't wanna lose my minions for the added security. Base always has multiple functions/properties. It is used for different things on different times. Yes, safe base is extremely good, but if this security adds some major inconvenience - I'll pass, it's not a real life where security is on a totally different level of importance
Sounds like a pain, probably why I have never invested in summoner. That said, upon further consideration despawn wouldn't make sense anyway. Your dragon/pets would be treated the same way worms would. Phasing enemies like wraiths would bounce off. Teleporting enemies would not be able to select inside as a valid target (With help from walls). Projectiles would vanish just as some do for normal walls. That leaves vines and worms. Vines I would assume bounce the same way phasing enemies would. So it would be weird for just worms to outright despawn. Bouncing makes the most sense over stunning, the catch would be making sure every segment bounces not just the head. Otherwise, large things like Dune Splicer could fling their tail inside.
But, this just gave me a great idea. So, should this be made I'm going to make a giant bug zapper with traps lining the outside with this block lining the inside, then during eclipses I'll stand on the inside and let Mothron get the death it deserves. (Vengence!) Once again, before someone panics, I couldn't build such a thing until after I've encountered a few real eclipses.
Player immunity should be separated from monster immunity as you propose, I agree. Won't write about PVP one yet, it's a totally different and huge thing.
I just want to point out its not Player immunity exactly. The point is to have a block that is hard to break unless someone is at the end of the game. The reason to want such a thing is for adventure maps or pathways that players can't get to until end game. I prefer let the game progress naturally and add elements to it rather than build a linear adventure. You bring up a good point about PvP, granted if someone is able to place it only someone equally far in the game would have a chance against them. This is why Terraria needs a creative mode, the player block could be like how Minecraft has bedrock/obsidian. Since it can only be placed in that mode it wouldn't come as a surprise to players on PvP maps. (Though, that is a concept for another thread.) With those battlefields I described earlier, I tend to line it with Temple blocks to keep people not far enough in the game out. Issue with temple block is the Jungle Biome it comes with. Its a basic part of the block and not something I would want changed, but its a hinderence when I make battlefields out of "weaker" biomes. Thus the desire for a neutral block that requires the strongest current pickaxe to mine.
Besides, its no different than when 1.2 came out. I just want a neutral (uncorruptable, in case I didn't mention that before now) version of the same thing for current end game.
I hope I understood the main idea. And yes, maybe special block would be the easiest concept for base isolation. (Ugh, I can already see those hordes banging on my walls and doors with no chance to get in, but with me being too scared to get out to stop their struggling and screaming... Ouch, reminds me of placing some simple traps outside just as I do nowadays to clean off my walls of this hostile fleshy ocean of monsters. Damn, no, gotta stop thinking about new exploits for now.) Considering some new mechanics that would be required to implement it as intended though, I wouldn't throw out some sort of a "super candle" plan with just one plain and simple mechanic added - absolute spawn prohibition. For the sole purpose of PVE security this would be okay. But blocks might add some other interesting aspects. Maybe even "layered monster transparency", like Wraiths can't go through this one, but Reapers can, and those over there - only Mothrons can.
Meh, Wall of Text again, sorry. Thanks for your patience. I do like the general idea, just needa figure out how to do it and how to convince the devs to add it
Always appreciated. I will say, I can't help but imagine I'm discussing with Vash himself. Which is good for a laugh.
*End note, I proofread this three times. And two hours after starting I'm still finding errors. So... I apologize for any errors I missed.
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