Hardmode bosses balance

Discussion in 'NPCs & Enemies' started by Shadow-, May 12, 2019.

  1. Shadow-

    Shadow- Terrarian

    I decided to make some suggestions for the next update about most of the hardmode bosses outside of cultist and duke fishron because imo most of them are currently unbalanced. Golem is not on the list because it is already confirmed that Golem is getting a buff. Let me know what do you guys think about those suggestions that I just made.

    The Twins:
    Spazmatism's charge attack in it's first form should be faster and cover more distance (equal to Retanizer's charge attack). Spazmatism's contact damage in it's first form is increased from 88 damage to 100 damage. Cursed flame attacks are more accurate but their damage are reduced from 88 damage to 80 damage. In it's second form Spazmatism's defense is reduced from 28 defense to 24 defense and it's eye fire attack duration is reduced from approximatively 7 seconds to 4 seconds. Spazmatism's HP is reduced from 34 500 to 32 500 and transform into it's second form at 13 000 hp (40%).

    Retanizer's charge attack is still the same but it's contact damage is increase from 88 damage to 100 damage. Retanizer's lasers in it's first form can now be fired from offscreen with a little bit less spread but their damage are reduced from 76 to 70. In it's second form Retanizer's defense is increased from 20 defense to 24 defense, death lasers attacks are increased from 92 damage to 95 damage, it's rapid fire attacks are increased from 68 damage to 80 damage and his contact damage is increased from 113 damage to 120 damage. Retanizer's lasers in both forms can also go through blocks from now on. Retanizer's HP is increased from 30 000 to 32 500 and transform into it's second form at 13 000 hp (40%).

    The probe's chance of dropping heart on death is reduced from 1/3 to 1/4. The amounts of lasers from the body are slightly reduced but their damage are increased from 72 damage to 80 damage. The body's contact damage is increased from 93 damage to 100 damage and the tail's contact damage is increased from 68 to 80. Going too far from the Destroyer will cause it to make it despawn.

    Skeletron Prime:
    The head's HP is reduced from 42 000 to 36 000. When the head is spinning it's contact damage is increased from 158 damage to 165 damage and it's speed is greatly increased. Prime saw and Prime vice's defense are both reduced to 24 defense, their hp are also both reduced from 13 500 to 10 000 and Prime cannon's bombs explodes on impact with the player. When the head drops below 18 000 hp (50%), it will start shooting lasers from it's eyes like the golem, their damage are 75.

    Plantera's contact damage in it's first form is increased from 114 damage to 125 damage. Transform into it's second form at 18 900 Hp (45%) instead of 21 000 Hp (50%), it's tentacles (the things that looks like the hungry from WOF) got their damage reduced from 120 damage to 110 damage but Plantera's contact damage in it's second form is increased from 140 damage to 155 damage.

    Solar Pillar: Projectiles reflected by the Selenians will only do 75% damage instead of 100%.
    (Per example if you are getting hit by a deflected projectile that is supposed to do 100 damage, it will only do 75 damage to your character.)
    Crawltipede's head contact damage is reduced from 300 damage to 250 damage.

    Moon Lord:
    Moon Lord's head hp is reduced from 67 500 to 60 000 and it's defense is reduced from 50 defense to 40 defense.
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    Bry-ccentric and Lord Garak like this.
  2. ThatRandomBuilderGuy

    ThatRandomBuilderGuy Eye of Cthulhu

    All the bosses are fine as they are.
    Except for golem but u haven’t mentioned anything other than mech bosses, plantera, and moon lord.
  3. ppowersteef

    ppowersteef Paladin

    There is not much explanation why these changes needs to be made.
    For example I don't see anything wrong with the Twins, Plantera and Moon Lord. It's like I'm just reading a changelog that's yet to implement.

    Would you try explaining that too?
  4. Shadow-

    Shadow- Terrarian

    The change for twins is to make them equal.The fight with Retanizer is a joke once Spazmastism is defeated. Destroyer is pretty easy with a heart reach potion because u will get a massive amounts of heart drops if u have a good piercing/aoe weapon like onyx blaster with crystal bullets and magic harps. Skeletron prime effective HP needs to be reduced because even if u have a good weapon with most of your accessories on menacing/lucky the fight goes on forever but, since most of his attacks does low damage he should get a buff in offense and the head's speed in expert mode is as slow as normal mode skeletron. Plantera first form is extremely easy compared to the second one because the swarms of tentacles is incredibly hard to dodge especially because if you use the dash from shield of cthulhu and you hit a tentacle your character will get knockbacked resulting into you taking a masive amounts of damage from the tentacles.Also buffing plantera contact damage is to make the fetid baghnakhs strat a bit less viable because honnestly, tanking while having almost 4k dps with pre-plantera gears is pretty overpowered. As for Moon-Lord I think the part where you have to kill the head is the hardest one because it is pretty tanky and you can only hit it for a certain period of time before the eye close himself.
  5. Baconfry

    Baconfry Terrarian

    I appreciate the effort, but a lot of this seems odd to me. You’re buffing them in some areas and weakening them in others. Are you trying to make the fights easier or harder? How does this change the way players approach the fight, and why is it an improvement?

    While I was typing this reply, I saw your new reply above, and it’s pretty good. I can see how the strategies might change; if Prime’s arms become more fragile, players might be more inclined to target them down and cripple the boss’s offense. One additional change might be giving Prime’s head an additional 5 defense for every arm, so it truly becomes a battle of endurance that speeds up as it progresses. I always thought of Skeletron Prime as a boss that tries to overwhelm you from the start, but loses steam over time.
  6. Shadow-

    Shadow- Terrarian

    I added the Selenians and Crawltipedes from the Solar Pillar. Selenians should be getting nerfed due to the absurd amount of damage they can do if you're getting hit by one of your reflected projectile with a full dps set. Crawltipedes head's contact damage should also be getting nerfed because they are super fast and they do as much damage as Moon Lord's phantasmal deathray.
    TheWorfer27 likes this.
  7. ppowersteef

    ppowersteef Paladin

    I think either are fine as you can avoid both enemy attacks by just staying grounded and not use any weapons that reflect.

    Scrollers' high damage are the real problem for me though...
  8. Shadow-

    Shadow- Terrarian

    Actually I'm pretty sure the difficulty of the solar pillar depends on what your playstyle is. I use CCK with vortex beater and chlorophyte bullets and I go above the the solar pillar while shooting down, being high enough from the ground makes it so that I have enough time to dodge the deflected projectiles. For me the crawltipede aren't too difficult to kill because the homing bullets kills them before they can even reach me but the main problem are the selenians because they can 1 or 2 shots me depending on what weapons and gear I am using. In overall I think it could be a good idea to reduce the number of ennemies you have to kill in order to destroy the solar pillar (the number of ennemies you have to kill for the 3 other pillars remains the same outside of solar pillar).
  9. Baconfry

    Baconfry Terrarian

    A fair change for Crawltipedes: instead of giving them absurdly high damage, make them inflict a special debuff that prevents flight and disables mounts.
    TheWorfer27 and ppowersteef like this.
  10. sharkman0101

    sharkman0101 Skeletron Prime

    I'm pretty sure that won't help how powerful they are. Leaving the player unable to change their horizontal position would allow the Srollers to shred the player in no time. Even if it were to only apply to the Wings we can equip, I'm sure no one would actually bother using other horizontal movement boosting accessories as they should be already obsolete.

    On their own, the Crawltipedes are usually not a problem. However, the combination of deadly enemies like the Sroller or the Selenian are the reason why it can be deadly to even think about using flight to dodge them(which, in itself, is perhaps the best and most consistent way to dodge them. They can massively outmaneuver you when grounded; it also doesn't help that the massive amount of diverse enemies that spawn during the event make it even more of a hassle to avoid damage.) Nerfing the Crawltipede would require a different rework of how the enemy punishes you. Perhaps a 3 second period before the Crawltipede finally becomes aggressive to the player?

    That's just my two cents, however. I find that the main threat is the inability to use the air to dodge effectively, not just the sheer damage they deal. I find myself seeking cover because of the massive damage and mobility the Srollers have, especially on Expert.
    Baconfry likes this.
  11. Baconfry

    Baconfry Terrarian

    From a design standpoint, the Solar Pillar is pretty unfair and stupid. And I know that changing Crawltipedes wouldn't exactly make it more fair or less stupid, but it would at least be an improvement. It's not obvious that the Crawltipede ignores grounded players, and people approaching blind would likely think that the Solar Pillar was just unfairly gibbing them with overpowered :red:-worms.

    To solve the main problem (the chargers), maybe the best approach would be to emphasize knockback. We could make Srollers/Selenians ignore attacks that deal weak knockback, but take hefty knockback from attacks that exceed a certain threshold, interrupting their charge.
    sharkman0101 likes this.