Game Mechanics I think that the new luck stat mechanic is flawed

[Terra B Welch]

Two things need to happen, normal torches need to have no affect on luck, and luck as a whole needs to be explained far better and made more obvious in-game.

This, and give summoners a little slack by making minion kills on ladybugs not count against luck, it's too easy to accidently kill them with minions as far as I'm aware.

 

[MasterworkStone]

I mean, what are you smoking ?
First, the reward wouldn't be super duper awesome as you make it sound, since it would be like 20% improvements on the drop rates max.
Second, it's a reward for something, since you would have to actively work on your luck stat by doing everything right, so it's really not at all "by default" and not "extremely easy and unrewarding"
It would be a small reward for learning how to max your luck in specific occasions.

Maximum luck literally doubles your drop rates, that's a pretty substantial reward if you ask me.
If we were to keep the current benefits, there would have to be a new disadvantage to using it.

 

[Mage-of-Rage]

I agree that torches negatively effecting Luck should be tossed right out the window but I feel like you're all overacting on how much negative effect torches have. By looking at the wiki we can see that:

ONLY torches in 42 box with the player at the center are taken into account. Having a bunch of torches in the Snow Biome DOES NOT negatively impact your luck back at spawn or in the other side of the world.

ONLY one torch type can effect your luck at any given moment. If placing a regular torch in the Snow Biome decreases luck by -2 placing two torches that are within 42 blocks within the player will NOT decrease luck by -4. However if placing a Desert Torch in the Snow Biome decreases luck by -1 and having a regular torch on top of that within 42 blocks WILL decrease overall luck by -3.

In terms of the actual effect of luck...

If we are strictly using the Wiki as evidence there is nothing to suggest Luck effects events in anyway. This means that Luck doesn't effect Blood Moon Chance, Random Boss Spawns, Weather ect.​

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Only a select few enemies spawn chance is effected by Luck. Luck has no effect on the spawn rate of (The Groom, The Bride, Nymphs, Tim, Runic Wizard, Regular Mimics, Wyvern...)​

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Luck has no effect on what you get in Chests. That's World Generation. I saw a few people on Reddit complain about this being the reason for them not finding a Lava Charm so I wanted to make this clear.​

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On top of that the effect that Luck has on your overall DPS isn't as great as you think it is. All it does is reroll your damage roll and apply the higher/lower of the two rolls. If in theory you deal (5 - 10) damage on a specific enemy and assuming we forget about crits a higher luck does not mean you'll suddenly be dealing 13 it simply means you will be hitting the higher end of (5 - 10) more frequently. So assuming you have a Luck = 0.4 which means you have a 40% chance of reroll. Assuming you hit that 40% you could then get a 5 then a 7. Congrats you dealt 7 instead of 5 for that one attack.​

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Now you'd assume Crits make this a bit muddier but not really. Crit is calculated AFTER the attack roll is determined as Crit is calculated after the attack rolls is calculated against enemy defense. Since there's nothing on the Wiki saying Luck effects Crit you're Crit Rate is unaffected and the only thing being effected is you're Crit Rate doubling the lower or higher end of attack rolls.​

I'm firmly in the camp that the detriment of me losing Luck because I used to wrong torch in the wrong biome is stupid but lets not overreact and accuse Luck of affecting things it doesn't and threatening to not play the game till its patched out and spread false information about "those torches in the Snow Biome is why I haven't got the Master Mode exclusive pets!".

 

[Metoot]

I'm firmly in the camp that the detriment of me losing Luck because I used to wrong torch in the wrong biome is stupid but lets not overreact and accuse Luck of affecting things it doesn't and threatening to not play the game till its patched out and spread false information about "those torches in the Snow Biome is why I haven't got the Master Mode exclusive pets!".

I completely agree. I only really dislike the feature not because it has a great impact, but because the premise itself makes no sense

 

[Schrödinger's psycho]

That is a really bad idea, you can't have such a massive reward without any sort of trade-off.
Having luck without bad luck would be essentially re-logic just doubling the drop rates of everything in the game by default, it would make everything extremely easy and unrewarding.

Oh, come on. The grind is already bad without luck - so lack of the buff is enough for a punisment.

 

[Mage-of-Rage]

I completely agree. I only really dislike the feature not because it has a great impact, but because the premise itself makes no sense

It's a mix of both for me. Luck should be toned down on what it can do but I'm fine with the downsides being what they are. I'm fine being punished for killing a rabbit for the lols or letting an NPC die. I'm not fine being punished for letting an Ocean Torch above water.

But I do feel like this thread and the Reddit thread that explains this as well is unintentionally doing lots of fear mongering and jumping to conclusions when the very wiki they're citing says nothing on the sort of what they claim Luck does. Just because the mechanic is bad doesn't mean we have to blame every. single. thing. on Luck especially when they're playing on Master Mode where getting three shot by a Hellbat is normal.

 

[hawalas]

Based on the wiki, 1.0 luck (the max) means drop rates are doubled. Just trying to prevent misinformation (assuming wiki is accurate).
EDIT: the line from wiki is "If the player's luck is greater than 0, then there is a (100 * luck)% chance that the chance is doubled. "

Yep exactly, and luck mods are cumulative. Meaning to achieve 1.0 luck, which would effectively double the drop rates so far as we know it, you would need :
- 0.2 from ladybug luck, so having recently released a ladybug, or killed the guide (12 minutes)
- 0.2 from torch luck, having this is too complex for me to figure out, your good torches have to outnumber your "bad" torches in a certain area around you
- 0.3 from having drunk a Greater Luck Potion in the last 5 minutes, the potion itself lasts 10 but the effect lowers after 5
- 0.3 from "lantern nights" which is something I dont understand, but apparently it's random

Or else, lantern nights not included, you can only reach maximum 0.9 by having a garden gnome nearby.
so you would have 90% chance that the drop chance is doubled, which in practice is like having +90% drop chance, which is a bit less than doubled (+100%)

Also since we're there computing everything, that means for someone who is unaware of the 'luck" mechanic, that would accidentally kill a ladybug in his "normal" torched "corruption" arena during a boss fight would get -0.1 + -0.2 = -0.3 luck, meaning he would have 30% chance that the loot chance for items when killing the boss would be halved, so a net reduction in loot chance of 15%, so he would only have 85% chance to drop each loot compared to usual (100%)

15% is really a lot in that scenario, for someone who didn't ask for anything.

Also yes, managing your luck well can almost double your chance for rewards, but that's still a lot to do, and that's still the case currently, as it would be if negative luck from torches and ladybugs would just be removed from the game

(...)
If we were to keep the current benefits, there would have to be a new disadvantage to using it.

I don't know how to say this again. There is currently NO disadvantage to using positive luck. Why would there need to be one, if we remove negative luck ?
Your argument doesnt make any sense, sorry. That's just wishing to unnecessarily punish players who dont know who care about luck. Not having the bonus is already enough of a drawback for those who wont be modifying their luck.

 

[MasterworkStone]

Oh, come on. The grind is already bad without luck - so lack of the buff is enough for a punisment.

Drop rates are fine as is.

 

[Schrödinger's psycho]

For getting your luck maxed out you are really need to minmax hard, especially on that Luck potion. So it's fitting as reward for all the effort.
And for those who don't want minmaxing - just leave them be.

 

[MasterworkStone]

I don't know how to say this again. There is currently NO disadvantage to using positive luck. Why would there need to be one, if we remove negative luck ?
Your argument doesnt make any sense, sorry. That's just wishing to unnecessarily punish players who dont know who care about luck. Not having the bonus is already enough of a drawback for those who wont be modifying their luck.

If there is no disadvantage to having luck in the game then why is this thread here?

For getting your luck maxed out you are really need to minmax hard, especially on that Luck potion. So it's fitting as reward for all the effort.
And for those who don't want minmaxing - just leave them be.

It's actually very easy.

 

[Schrödinger's psycho]

It's actually very easy.

Just how? Getting those pink pearls is a extremely grindy (and luck-based itself) process, no mention of lantern nights being one-time event and all that careful handling of ladybugs...
So no, only a minor buff to luck is very easy, but a noticeable one isn't

 

[NewRaven]

I think, the luck system in general is a good idea. But, it needs some re-adjustments... the ladybug-buff seems to be fairly random, because it is never explained within the game, at all. And while I think, the "use the right torch in the right biome to get a buff" and even the "use the wrong torch in the wrong biome to get a debuff" idea is nice, I think the standard torches should stay absolutly neutral. Starting a new game, users aren't (and can't be) aware of that mechanic, and they also don't necessary have any access to biome specific torches. And even if we consider this more of a min-max-system for more experienced players with more progression... you can't really think it is fun in any way to replace maybe hundreds of already placed torches because a not only hidden but also in early game hard to avoid game mechanic punishes you 30+ hours later for just doing something very basic. So, in my opinion, at least two things need to happen, to make this mechanic a good or at least more acceptable thing:

1. open up about it. Give the guide a few things to say about it so that players are informed from the beginning that it matters to use fitting torches for the biomes. You don't have to talk about chances and luck-buffs or luck-debuffs... but at least tell them that's in their own interested to use matching torches. And tell them right from the start. The wizard being more specific later on it is okay, but don't hide that stuff until then.

2. either make the default torch completely neutral or make biome torches more accessible, so that everyone who enters a biome is somehow able to use the right torches if they want to with minimal effort.

 

[plsfixresolution]

I think that atleast there should be atleast somewhere in the UI showing where your luck currently is.
Other than that it would be great if they made the level of zoom equal no matter what your resolution is, am I right?

 

[PerryMason]

The solution, in my opinion, would be the same as with the happiness issue:

Reward interesting playstyle, but don't punish the player playing the same way as pre-1.4

Get a (smaller) luck buff from using the correct torches, and better prices building neat towns for the NPCs. And simply no debuffs from doing the opposite.

This way the devs incentivize playing the way they want, but ultimatelly put the choice in the hands of the players.

 

[maxmanatarms]

So something some folks are missing is that the "Luck check" is done per frame. yes its a radius of 42 squares around the player but it is done on EVERY FRAME. That is a performance issue for some folks as they "over light" such as myself i like seeing clearly.

and that yes you can min max it. Which is the issue. No wiki and playing normally you wont hear anything about it ever until after killing WOF and getting the wizard. That what half the game pretty much?

And @ Masterworkstone you actually going to add something to this thread or always back hand anyone saying this Luck feature is bed. I have seen one line responses for everyone "bad reason" from you. Please step up or walk off. your "full" responses arent adding anything. besides "learn the new mechanic and stop qqing"

Yes drop rates are doubled. Yes spawn chance for rare mobs are increased. But without knowing about the damn mechanic it means nothing!

@Mage-of-Rage
the luck chance does effect events as it ethier increases or decreases the chance of "an event" which is vague i know. but it does state it either double the chance i.e blood mooon being 10% turns into a 20% chance. or it almost halves it turning 10% into a 6.5% chance.
you can check at the impact on the wiki page.

So it can heavily effect events in the game even when your not looking or informed of it.

 

[crazyjohn404]

Literally NOBODY likes this mechanic. I hope this either gets patched out, or regular torches don't give you worse luck.

 

[tacgnol06]

Obtuse mechanics like are nostalgic in a bad way. Reminds me of the exp system in the original Kid Icarus, an NES game that punishes you for firing too many arrows, without even telling you. Negative luck is also a dumb concept. Player's hate being penalized for playing the game in a reasonable manner. MasterworkStone can try to justify it as something player's will just have to learn, but it's still bad game design.

Fun story: During WoW's beta, to help even the playing field between the hardcore and more casual audiences, WoW implemented a system where after gaining a certain amount of XP, your character would become "tired" with an XP penalty unless they logged out at an Inn. Players HATED this. Blizzard then simply made the "tired" values into the baseline values, and added the familiar "rested" XP bonus if you logged out in an Inn. None of the values under the hood actually changed, yet players were content with this change, because it didn't imply a punishment for merely playing the game.

15 years later, Red apparently never learned this simple game design lesson...

 

[Schrödinger's psycho]

I think that atleast there should be atleast somewhere in the UI showing where your luck currently is.

You bet.
I was expecting some sort of buff icon or tooltip on torches since I read about "A new buff which encourages players to place torches related to the current biome" in spoilers - but not finding any noticeable change just went with my favorite ice torches everywhere as I did before. And of course I did not expected any debuffs, only some encouragment. Now I'm still re-doing all the torches, meh.
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As of "players just need to deal with it" - imagine if in place of torches it were dyes. Like "you must equip the right-colored dye for biome you are in, a dye of wrong color gives you a hidden penalty and worst of all is not equipping any dye at all". This is how it feels with torches now.

 

[The Owler]

That's why I said I tried my hardest to help, but clearly I can't convince anyone that this mechanic isn't the bad thing they think it is.
I'm not going to argue about this anymore, I know how the feature works and what it does, I know how extremely easy it is to just make a biome torch, I'm just kind of upset that I can't get this through to anyone.
There are now 15 people who have voted in this thread's poll that don't understand how the mechanic actually works.

The only thing I agree on is that it should at the very least have buffs and debuffs that give you a hint at what your luck is, have the wizard give you more detail about it.
It does need some redesign, make it more clear to the player what's going on.

But there are some who do understand how it works, and that's why they hate it. If they took away the negative luck, it would be a good feature. But you don't have to argue if you don't want to.

 

[The Owler]

Also, I made a petition to get torch luck removed, and the link is here: Sign the Petition. Thanks to everyone that helps the cause!