My rant on the (lack of) weapon diversity in 1.3.

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Fortanono 🌳

Retinazer
(NOTE: This opinion may change when new stuff is discovered, but right now, I felt like I had to make this.)

First of all, the calm before the storm. You guys really outdid yourself with this update! The Underground Desert, Granite and Marble biomes, the entire Lunar Event is freakin' amazing. And dat Moon Lord... wow. But there is one thing that presents itself to a glaring flaw for me: The weapon diversity, or lack thereof. Not talking about added new weapon types, those are amazing too, but old weapon types that have not been brought back. This isn't a new problem; The Flairon, a weapon that's obviously a flail, is basically a chain weapon masquerading as a flail. Arrow weapons were not useful at all compared to bullets and rockets; the Tsunami and Pulse Bow were the only two good endgame ones compared to the large amount of artillery weapons. And the Summoner had to get lucky with a Slime Statue or even worse, not find one and their playthrough basically ends without the ability to kill anything. But in 1.3, it's been brought to a whole new level of lack of diversity.

In Melee, there are only 2 types of melee weapons that are consistent across the whole playthrough. Swords... and yo-yos. There are already more yo-yos than flails, or spears, or boomerangs, and there is more stuff related to yo-yos than the other 3 weapons combined plus melee chain weapons! They are extremely fun to use, I can say that, but why yo-yos? Has Red's yo-yo obsession been taken to the level of forgetting about other melee weapon subtypes? While there is the North Pole and Paladin's Hammer, those things are not new, and there should at least be some new stuff. And there still aren't any flails beyond the Flower Pow, a weapon that is a drop from Plantera, which is the beginning of a tier that is obsolete now. Finally, the Solar stuff seems like a tease, as we have a lookalike flail and a lookalike spear, neither of which work as you'd think. (Solar Eruption is actually really cool, but at least introduce something.) The Daybreak could've easily been a projectile spear too, it doesn't have any mechanics that say it shouldn't be unlike the Solar Eruption.

Rangers, as far as I know, get one endgame bow. Nothing's changed there. Not much i can say since I don't know much. Mage weapons are all unique, there are no subclasses there.

And then we get to the Summoner. The problem here isn't endgame weaponry, summoner's been brought up to a better level there. But the early game is something I felt that I need to discuss. Not sure about this, but I think that there aren't any early-game summoner weapons introduced. I dunno, this is something that people are still discovering, but if there aren't any, that is a pretty major problem. The summoner in 1.2 has quite the rocky start. If they ever do find a Slime Statue, they need to :red:ing kill Queen Bee with a single baby slime that only does 8 damage and is grounded. Or they could kill Eow/BoC to get a pick to mine for the Imp Staff, both of which won't be easy to kill with a single baby slime. Yeah. And if they don't find one, they can't move on since they can't kill slimes with anything other than summoner weapons, which they have none of. The sheer fact that the single best Terraria player in the game had to call a magic weapon a summoner weapon to progress on is saddening.

And that concludes my rant. Or so you'd think. Because as far as I know there is another class that needs fleshing out. The Throwable class. Why is it that they get new damage but (or so I think) only weapons and armor pre-Hardmode? What the actual :red:. Yes, there isn't enough space for five pillars, but is that necessary? Because I see two (count that, TWO) different opportunities to add new throwing gear. Martian Conduit Plating, which is only used for decoration and will probably rot in your chests if you don't like the look, and the Lunatic Cultist, who is harder than the pillars and is the gateway to them. Yeah, I thought you learned your lessons with the Summoner class. But introducing a new damage type means you are pretty much introducing a new playstyle and that needs to be respected, not tossed to the wayside past a certain point in the game.

Sorry about the anger present in this rant, but I just want to get my point across.
 
(NOTE: This opinion may change when new stuff is discovered, but right now, I felt like I had to make this.)

First of all, the calm before the storm. You guys really outdid yourself with this update! The Underground Desert, Granite and Marble biomes, the entire Lunar Event is freakin' amazing. And dat Moon Lord... wow. But there is one thing that presents itself to a glaring flaw for me: The weapon diversity, or lack thereof. Not talking about added new weapon types, those are amazing too, but old weapon types that have not been brought back. This isn't a new problem; The Flairon, a weapon that's obviously a flail, is basically a chain weapon masquerading as a flail. Arrow weapons were not useful at all compared to bullets and rockets; the Tsunami and Pulse Bow were the only two good endgame ones compared to the large amount of artillery weapons. And the Summoner had to get lucky with a Slime Statue or even worse, not find one and their playthrough basically ends without the ability to kill anything. But in 1.3, it's been brought to a whole new level of lack of diversity.

In Melee, there are only 2 types of melee weapons that are consistent across the whole playthrough. Swords... and yo-yos. There are already more yo-yos than flails, or spears, or boomerangs, and there is more stuff related to yo-yos than the other 3 weapons combined plus melee chain weapons! They are extremely fun to use, I can say that, but why yo-yos? Has Red's yo-yo obsession been taken to the level of forgetting about other melee weapon subtypes? While there is the North Pole and Paladin's Hammer, those things are not new, and there should at least be some new stuff. And there still aren't any flails beyond the Flower Pow, a weapon that is a drop from Plantera, which is the beginning of a tier that is obsolete now. Finally, the Solar stuff seems like a tease, as we have a lookalike flail and a lookalike spear, neither of which work as you'd think. (Solar Eruption is actually really cool, but at least introduce something.) The Daybreak could've easily been a projectile spear too, it doesn't have any mechanics that say it shouldn't be unlike the Solar Eruption.

Rangers, as far as I know, get one endgame bow. Nothing's changed there. Not much i can say since I don't know much. Mage weapons are all unique, there are no subclasses there.

And then we get to the Summoner. The problem here isn't endgame weaponry, summoner's been brought up to a better level there. But the early game is something I felt that I need to discuss. Not sure about this, but I think that there aren't any early-game summoner weapons introduced. I dunno, this is something that people are still discovering, but if there aren't any, that is a pretty major problem. The summoner in 1.2 has quite the rocky start. If they ever do find a Slime Statue, they need to :red:ing kill Queen Bee with a single baby slime that only does 8 damage and is grounded. Or they could kill Eow/BoC to get a pick to mine for the Imp Staff, both of which won't be easy to kill with a single baby slime. Yeah. And if they don't find one, they can't move on since they can't kill slimes with anything other than summoner weapons, which they have none of. The sheer fact that the single best Terraria player in the game had to call a magic weapon a summoner weapon to progress on is saddening.

And that concludes my rant. Or so you'd think. Because as far as I know there is another class that needs fleshing out. The Throwable class. Why is it that they get new damage but (or so I think) only weapons and armor pre-Hardmode? What the actual :red:. Yes, there isn't enough space for five pillars, but is that necessary? Because I see two (count that, TWO) different opportunities to add new throwing gear. Martian Conduit Plating, which is only used for decoration and will probably rot in your chests if you don't like the look, and the Lunatic Cultist, who is harder than the pillars and is the gateway to them. Yeah, I thought you learned your lessons with the Summoner class. But introducing a new damage type means you are pretty much introducing a new playstyle and that needs to be respected, not tossed to the wayside past a certain point in the game.

Sorry about the anger present in this rant, but I just want to get my point across.
You act like summoners don't use other weapons, which is untrue, unless player imposed. The game shouldn't pander to those who force themselves to play that way
 
And then we get to the Summoner. The problem here isn't endgame weaponry, summoner's been brought up to a better level there. But the early game is something I felt that I need to discuss. Not sure about this, but I think that there aren't any early-game summoner weapons introduced. I dunno, this is something that people are still discovering, but if there aren't any, that is a pretty major problem. The summoner in 1.2 has quite the rocky start. If they ever do find a Slime Statue, they need to :red:ing kill Queen Bee with a single baby slime that only does 8 damage and is grounded. Or they could kill Eow/BoC to get a pick to mine for the Imp Staff, both of which won't be easy to kill with a single baby slime. Yeah. And if they don't find one, they can't move on since they can't kill slimes with anything other than summoner weapons, which they have none of. The sheer fact that the single best Terraria player in the game had to call a magic weapon a summoner weapon to progress on is saddening
...well theres your problem! summoner is not and afik was never intended to be a pure class. it leaves your hands free for a reason. use other weapons. its not dev's fault if you choose to play "stupidly" you ever try playing summon without compromising to allow the clouds? from what i remember of the vid it looked necessary because games are supposed to be fun, not because yitsmir couldn't win otherwise. pure summoner would be boring as [redscensoringcranium]. just summon everything once and jump around waiting for the imortal ai to play for you without any further input?

more staves won't help. its at best a symptom. imo either it needs a total ground up revamp in how summons even work or its always going to be some bastard class that exists to be hybridized with the others, the armors and equipment only serving to move the slider from favoring one side vs the other. its bad enough people talk like they're "playing a wizard" as if the game had restrictions to force you to do so...being pure summoner is like complaining there isn't an even spread of fire weapons to let you play pyromancer or grenideers being left out until they get a bomb statue.
(...or how the game's system of putting offensive stats on armor makes it virtually impossible to be a pict, ignore armor in favor of wearing only dye and a sword.)
if you want to handicap yourself to keep things interesting its one thing, but that doesn't sound like what you're talking about.

(edit- actually most of my problems with the class can be solved with a 'target designator' staff where the minions follow your cursor)
 
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Point taken. But my point still stands.
Actually the slime staff is far more common now ( at least it seems so...)
and the Slime Rain makes finding Pinkies a breeze, who have a increased chance of dropping it.
 
I agree that there are too many yoyo's, but I like limited weapon options for different tiers. In one tier you need to use boomerangs to survive, and in another the flail is the most viable option.

Magic weapons have this nailed, with little overlap between magic weapons.
 
There were a lot of good suggestions to make summoners viable, including during early game. Manual targeting, a wooden chest item, an armor set from King Slime. But, nope. Early game summoners got no changes, besides a higher chance of a Slime Staff from Pinky. Extremely disappointing.
 
God u say that the Rangers get only one new endgame bow huh
Well... Most you tubers have been calling it the most op weapon in the game, and mrthepicninja has set a new planters world record bosskill with it, and unlike the other extreme dps weapon, the coin gun, it isn't that costly to use, so long story short the phantasm is probably the mat overpowered thing in the game
 
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Ok, I felt like this rant touched on the lack of variety that has been bugging me. The summoner part, meh, I mean there could be some early game armor for it, but I feel like it is properly placed. Think about it this way: you get the pre HM summoner armor via Queen Bee, and you get magic armor through the Jungle. The ranger class comes from the Dungeon, and the melee class from the EoW. These are all somewhat balanced (except the EoW who is quite frankly really easy with the right preparation). Anyways, you see my point, back to the lack of diversity.

Melee definitely could use some vamping. They all are really akin to one another, and while some have unique abilities (the new psycho knife allows you to go invisible and strike your enemy for about 300 damage on the first strike), for the most part the class itself is dull. While they are powerhouse weapons at close range, you just get better swords that are themed differently as you go through the game. I believe this in part to be due to a lack of possibility that we don't necessarily see with the other classes. The magic class can literally do anything, be anything, because it is so whimsical and fun. Ranged has many possibilities too; rocket launchers, bows, guns, fracturing ammo... There is a lot to work with there (even though there isn't a lot; magic overlaps with guns in some spots). The melee class really is the most shallow of the classes due to this lack of possibility; yes, they did make the meowmere, but they can only be so silly and fun without making the game too funny or whimsical. So while the melee class is somewhat plain and unostentatious, the devs did the best with what they were given, and we can just pray that they revamp some chain weapons or flails to suit the end game gear.

EDIT: I realized that you aren't restricted to using pre-Lunar weapons. There are some pros and cons to using weapons like those; nebula magic weapons use a :red: ton of mana (one uses like ~35 per shot) compared to say the Razorblade Typhoon which is still better than both new magic weapons (in my opinion) because of its homing, less mana cost, and ability to attack multiple times
 
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I somewhat agree, since most melee armor to me doesnt have enough defense to justify getting right up in a bosses or high level enemies face to hit with a sword, which can I guess be countere since there is weapons like terra blade/meowmere and such that shoot projectiles from the swords, but melee has the flail weapons, spears, chain like weapons, etc. So there is variety, but melee isnt the most viable for bossing, mainly for looting or exploring a world (horsemans blade is still amazing with homing pumpkins)
 
*Edward Scissorhands snippity snippers*
Well look at it this way. Most weapons fall under subclasses with minor to no unique traits. There are swords, yoyos, flails, boomerangs, chain types, and spears (maybe two more :) ). Other than that, most melee weapons fall under these classes. Ranged has somewhat more variety in weapon styles (sniper vs machine gun style; think shoot speed/damage ratio; also different projectiles).
 
You act like summoners don't use other weapons, which is untrue, unless player imposed. The game shouldn't pander to those who force themselves to play that way
It works very well if one use minions as additional damage source. But to "pure" summoner, using additional weapons is a bit tricky, and reason is summoners armors, especially early ones. If memory serves me right those provide very little defense, even less than mage armors. So for summoner, melee is out of questions, magic weapons would be gimped without mage accessories and early-mid game ranged aren't quite good too, especially without armor and accessories.
 
The summoner part, meh, I mean there could be some early game armor for it, but I feel like it is properly placed. Think about it this way: you get the pre HM summoner armor via Queen Bee, and you get magic armor through the Jungle. The ranger class comes from the Dungeon, and the melee class from the EoW.

All the classes do get something before needing to fight a big boss (Queen Bee/BoC/EoW/Skeletron), EXCEPT Summoner. Mages get Meteor, Gem Robes, and Jungle, Melee gets ore armors, and Rangers get the... Ninja set? Now that doesn't make any sense. Why do Rangers get an armor set from a boss that should clearly be dropping Summoner gear? Seriously. There should have been some craftable material that King Slime dropped for making a Summoner armor (Slime Robes and Slime Hat?) and for crafting the Slime Staff.
 
Tbh this is why magic is my favorite class at the moment. It's just more fun to play.
I agree with most of the things people have said on this post so far, and I think Re-Logic maybe should've thought out game progression/weapon uniqueness a bit better.

Nebula mage weaps do use a metric :red:ton of mana though, I wish they'd lower it for such fast-firing weapons. The Laser Machinegun also has a rather high mana cost for its speed, which allows you to only sustain the maximum fire rate for a few seconds at best. Needless to say, there's a LOT of balancing left tbd.


EDIT: tfw razorpine and razorblade typhoon are still more efficient than most of the Lunar event weapons....
 
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Nebula mage weaps do a metric ton of mana though, I wish they'd lower it for such fast-firing weapons. The Laser Machinegun also has a rather high mana cost for its speed, which allows you to only sustain the maximum fire rate for a few seconds at best. Needless to say, there's a LOT of balancing left tbd.

EDIT: tfw razorpine and razorblade typhoon are still more efficient than most of the Lunar event weapons....

Totally! Realize that the Razorblade and the Nebula Blaze give off about the same amount of mana when you give them both Mythical and use the Mana Flower; Nebula Blaze uses 11 mana and the Razorblade uses 10. The Nebula Arcanum uses about 31 mana (I think) but with Mythical and the flower it rounds out to 26 mana which is ok when you use it three times and switch to a cost effective weapon. That way you effectively save mana and increase your DPS. Or you can by a lot of mana potions and use the Mana flower + Last Prism to destroy everything.
 
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